Re: antibiotics and antifungals

[Guest guest]

I remember something with erythromycin and nizoral,

but when questioned, Dr G was aware of the connections

but not concerned, and did not pull children off that

combination. I forget exactly what he said, but since

my son was on that combo at the time, whatever it was

he said about it eased my mind and I trusted him,

never gave it another thought.

--- drsmit6 <sjsmith@...> wrote:

> I've searched the archives but can't seem to find

> the answer -

> which antibiotics can have a negative affect on the

> heart if you're on an antifungal

>

> An URI is running the course out here with many in

> school being

> out. has had it for 2+ wks.

> We've done 2 courses of Zithromax - nothing.

> Ped. currently had him on amoxicillin

> had a bad reaction to Ceflex 2 yrs ago -

> very negative behavior.

> We think this is the family of antibiotics that is a

>

> no-no if you're on an antifungal.

>

> Is amoxicillin ok?

>

> doris

> -maryland

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

same here. he said that he consulted with the

pharmaceutical companies and never had a problem with

that combo. i thought it was ery and diflucan.

--- <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> I remember something with erythromycin and nizoral,

> but when questioned, Dr G was aware of the

> connections

> but not concerned, and did not pull children off

> that

> combination. I forget exactly what he said, but

> since

> my son was on that combo at the time, whatever it

> was

> he said about it eased my mind and I trusted him,

> never gave it another thought.

>

> --- drsmit6 <sjsmith@...> wrote:

>

> > I've searched the archives but can't seem to find

> > the answer -

> > which antibiotics can have a negative affect on

> the

> > heart if you're on an antifungal

> >

> > An URI is running the course out here with many in

> > school being

> > out. has had it for 2+ wks.

> > We've done 2 courses of Zithromax - nothing.

> > Ped. currently had him on amoxicillin

> > had a bad reaction to Ceflex 2 yrs ago -

> > very negative behavior.

> > We think this is the family of antibiotics that is

> a

> >

> > no-no if you're on an antifungal.

> >

> > Is amoxicillin ok?

> >

> > doris

> > -maryland

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

I would advise you to be very careful when considering antibiotics and

anti-fungals for the treatment of arthritis. Most of the AP is simply hype

and there are several " special " clinics around that will run expensive and

worthless x-rays, test, and slam you insurance for thousands. They will

tell you a bunch of hokum like the " herxheimer effect " and other imaginary

nonsense. Beware of anyone that says you have to get worse before you get

better.

I bought into it for a year. I was in bad shape, sulfasalazine didn't work

and I could not tolerate methotrexate. The AP Dr. slammed my insurance for

$30K and had me on minocin and diflucan as well as all of the maintenance

pro-biotic supplements and vitamins. I seemed to have a little initial

improvement at the beginning but after 11 months every scar on my body

started to turn grey and I went into a massive flare.

I found a good RD who put me on Enbrel which turned out to be my miracle

drug. I got immediate relief and have actually greatly improved to the

point that joints have actually healed. I have been stable on Enbrel for

over 6 years and have been able to reduce the dose to one injection every

two weeks nowadays.

Antibiotics are rarely effective for autoimmune disease because of

infections and mycoplasma is common everywhere and is the most common

contaminant in anything pharmaceutical. If you do have that rare case of

infection induced arthritis a month of the appropriate antibiotic should

take care of it. Antibiotics occasionally work in treating more common

forms of arthritis because of their secondary effects. They are not killing

any disease causing bacteria. They attenuate the immune system. That is

why thousands of people die each year when they take penicillin for the flu.

So the antibiotics occasionally work for arthritis for the same reason as

Enbrel . But, antibiotics are not nearly as statistically effective as

these other drugs. Enbrel is 50-60% effective and unfortunately is about as

good as it gets.

Don't let anyone tell you that these alternative " protocols " are without

risks or side effects. They can really mess you up and there are quacks out

there that will lie to you and rip you off when you are desperate. The only

fused joints that I now have are the ones that occurred when I was foolish

enough to buy into the hype. Diflucan can really destroy your liver. If

there was an easy alternative, every Dr would be using it. The Antibiotic

Protocol is essentially hype and the proponents are mostly cooks and

fanatics. If you don't believe me check out their group and ask a few

pointed questions.

Sincerely,

Ronnie E.

[Guest guest]

Ronnie E:  I was very interested in hearing that you're down to Enbrel every two

weeks.  I've talked to both my rheumy and internist about cutting back because I

haven't had a flare or any symptoms since about 3-4 months after I started

taking it a year and a half ago; but both were reluctant to tell me to do more

than maybe stretch it a day.  (I've actually been going about ten.)  My rheumy -

who seems to be pretty " by the book " - said Amgen is doing testing on this very

issue but I'm wondering if your rheumy has approved this (just curiosity) and

how long you've been on every two weeks with no ill effects?  Thanks for

whatever info you can give me.    

 Joanna Hoelscher

[Guest guest]

Ron,

Obviously I can only make my observation on my own experience and

understanding of how the Harvard Antibiotic Protocol works. There are

not a lot of people with Psoriatic Arthritis using it, but I had read

about enough so that I thought it might work for me and it did. I got

off methotrexate immediately and weaned off Prednisone within 30

days. The Minocycline costs me $55 per month from Drugstore.com and

my Diclofenac cost $14 per month. Minocycline has been used for years

to treat teenage acne and does not cause antibiotic resistance. I am

a retired chemist and probably understood more about how the protocol

works and other dietary aspects of good health. You do a grave

injustice to the people that this protocol might help by using your

uneducated labels of " hokum " , " cooks " and " fanatic. " Your compilation

of mis-information says to me you never understood the protocol

enough to make it work. Because it is working for me, it is my

obligation to constructively relate my method and progress on this

website.

vinnylid

[Guest guest]

My RD totally approves of it. He has a " less is more " approach. I have

posted this before, I went on Enbrel before it was approved for PA. I have

been on it a long time. When they moved the factory years ago it became

very hard to get so a lot of us had to stretch what we had out. Some people

found that they were in complete remission. Yes folks, Enbrel can cause

remissions, especially if you start it early enough in the progression of

the disease. I actually haven't had a shot in 3 weeks as we speak. I will

probably inject next week. I may be in remission again. We will see.

Usually a good indicator for me is the condition of my fingernails. If they

start receding, I have gone too long. And, if I start hurting of course.

It is something of a miracle since I had 9 joints affected in my hands at

one time and was told I could expect to lose the complete use of my hands

within 3 months. A few years back I actually was in remission for 18 months

but had to start again when I went into a sudden flare. It's a good idea to

have base line x-rays. I have always been really careful with Enbrel

because it is so effective for me. I stop injections for a few days before

a tooth cleaning or anything medically invasive. I stop when I am sick

whether it is viral or bacterial. I take Klonopin because Enbrel jacks me

up a bit. I take vitamins regularly but nothing over the top. I try to

avoid stress and get exercise.

Losing my hands was devastating for me. I was once a professional guitarist

and the physical pain of the disease once had me in a suicidal state. One

shot relieved the pain. I have improved enough that I am again setting in

at local clubs. I am not what I once was but it is a miracle an a pleasure

that I can play at all again.

I hope this helps. I am also very serious about what I said about the AP.

Spend a little time on their board and you will realize that their stubborn

premise is very flawed.

Cheers,

Ronnie E.

[Guest guest]

This is generally the response that you get from anyone associated with the

AP. They respond with personal attacks and call you ignorant. You do not

know who I am or what my education is. I 'm an electrical engineer, but my

wife is a molecular biologist. If it works for you fine. My personal

experience has been very different and a lot of people have had permanent

joint damage an worse from foolishly adhering to this protocol while being

told they must get worse before they get better. And yes, most of the

people pushing it are kooks. I did not say that it was never effective. I

did say that it is very much less effective than the proponents claim, it

does not work for the reason they say it does, and it is not without risks.

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of vinnylid

Ron,

Obviously I can only make my observation on my own experience and

understanding of how the Harvard Antibiotic Protocol works.

[Guest guest]

Ronnie: thanks so much for your reply. I just want to clarify one thing: when

you believe you're in remission (for instance, the one that lasted 18 months),

do I understand correctly that you go off Enbrel completely until you feel a

" flare " coming on? I'm asking because I remember reading early on in my

experience with this group that once you go off one of the biologics, it never

works again as well. I assume that has NOT been your experience and just want

to verify before I decide to try going off of it because I have been without

symptoms that I can discern for at least 6 to 9 months.

Joanna Hoelscher

[Guest guest]

I was in remission for 18 months a few years ago. Since then I have not

been able to completely wean myself completely off of the injections. I

usually have to inject 25 mgs every two weeks at this point. If I get jiggy

I occasionally inject once a week. I was hoping that I was I remission

again and just tried to go a month without Enbrel, but it appears that I am

not. However, I have also really been pushing myself lately. BTW, the first

thing that I asked my RD was if the effectiveness of biologic drugs

decreases if you stop and start them. He said that there is no evidence to

support that, only anecdotal stories from patients that were probably having

progressing disease and it would have happened anyway. One thing I know

about this disease is that everyone responds differently. What is a miracle

for one person may not be affective at all for another. Some people can

even take MTX for years with no side effects.

" Ron " <ronevans@...>

[Guest guest]

Hello - My 17-yr-old daughter was just diagnosed with PA. Rheumatologist is

recommending we start her on a low oral dose of methotrexate - 10 mg per week

for 1st 2 weeks then increased to 15 mg per week. We are scared to start her on

this drug having read about the many side effects and given that she is young

adult, we are worried about long-term use. But we've been told if we don't treat

the PA aggressively, he will progress and start destroying her joints. I'm

interested in the " Harvard Antibiotic Protocol " you are using. Does the

Minocyeline and / or Dicofenac have side effects?

Thanks in advance for your reply! -

[Guest guest]

My daughter was diagnosed with PsA as a teen too. She did a short stint on

methotrexate so the insurance would pay for Enbrel. She has been on biologics

for about six years now and is not experiencing the permanent damage that goes

with this disease. She has had absolutely NO side effects. 

Janette

[Guest guest]

Enbrel.....

 

Danny <dan_f47@...>

Hello - My 17-yr-old daughter was just diagnosed with PA. Rheumatologist is

recommending we start her on a low oral dose of methotrexate - 10 mg per week

for 1st 2 weeks then increased to 15 mg

[Guest guest]

I have been on Enbrel for 6 years, maybe a little more, I would have to

check my chart. It changed my life and reversed my PA. I post now and

again to tell the board that the only permanent joint damage I now have was

sustained when I tried the antibiotic protocol for 10 months. I also

believe that the first treatment for PA should be a biologic drug.

Insurance companies usually want you to fail on 2 main stream treatments

first because of the cost. I believe that many people would go into

remission if they were put on Enbrel for 3 to 4 months as soon as PA is

diagnosed. That's about $5K. Not much considering it could considerably

affect the quality of the rest of your life. Drive an old car and try the

Enbrel first.

" Ron " <ronevans@...>