Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Just so you know, Stan Kurtz makes NO MONEy from the nasal spray. Many parents have used shots (Dr. neubrander.com) and Stan came up with this approach for many reasons. Some people respond dramatically within minutes. You can google B12 and you will find it is used for many conditions. The methyl form has proven more successful for children with autism. Personally, I would prefer to try a nasal spray than a prescription drug for my child. You can learn more at childrensrecoveryvideos.com --- Doris and Steve <sjsmith@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > This is scary .. ...... > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately > and dramatically > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system > function, reduces > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > ... he is a technology executive and crisis > intervention counselor > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > all of this in a nasal spray? > where are the peer reviews and research supporting > his claims? > > d > > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " > c.lowrance@... > > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > midian42 > <midian42> > > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and > researcher. He used to > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many > things and he > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are > interested. His > website is www.stankurtz. > com. > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > Cheryl > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Responsibility for the content of this message lies > strictly with > the original author(s), and is not necessarily > endorsed by or the > opinion of the Research Institute, the > Parent Coalition, or the list moderator(s). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 He didn't create the nasal spray, he just created the method of administration. It's just MB12 but in nasal spray form. Usually it's administered in shots or orally. MB12 is a major part of the DAN protocol. Remember when we start saying we will only accept peer reviews and research supporting claims, you have to be prepared to do the same for your own methods. is not peer reviewed or researched any more than MB12 (actually, it may even be less than MB12 as we rely *heavily* on research from CFS and HHV6 in relation to *other* things than autism). We are taking research in *other* areas and applying them towards autism. They do the same thing. Dr. Goldberg's protocol is not the only protocol that people use and the reality is, most people use the DAN protocol. is not nearly as prevalent. It is becoming incorporated into DAN to some degree but the biggest thing people have issues with when it comes to doing the protocol is the use of ssri's and the like. They also tend to disagree with diet issues. They put much of their efforts in metabolic issues and Dr. G focuses on immune. So there are some fundamental differences in approaches but the differences are getting smaller as they incorporate more into their protocol. Of course, Dr. G doesn't focus on metabolic at all. There is a lot of research on MB12 and if you go to Dr. Neubrander's site (www.drneubrander.com) you'll find some and I believe Stan has a bunch of research on his site, too. MB12 is not just used to treat autism - it's used in a variety of health conditions so there is a lot of study on it although it's still not very well accepted by the traditional medical community (but again, neither is ). The biggest problem that Dr. G has with MB12 (that I've gathered from our conversations) is that he believes it's not treating the cause, it's treating a symptom. To him, MB12 isn't the answer because poor methylation is a byproduct of a poor immune system so you wouldn't be changing the immune system with MB12, just increasing methylation. Stan's a good guy. Dr. G and he haven't spoken to each other in a while as far as I know but Stan highly respects Dr. G. He may disagree with some fundamental issues as far as treating autism, but he does respect him. I tend to believe the feeling is mutual but I could be wrong. Dr. G and he disagree on some pretty major things so I don't know, maybe it's not mutual! Cheryl On Mar 8, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Doris and Steve wrote: > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > This is scary .. ...... > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and dramatically > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, reduces > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention counselor > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > all of this in a nasal spray? > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? > > d > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > midian42 <midian42> > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He used to > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are interested. His > website is www.stankurtz. > com. > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > Cheryl > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 To a certain extent I think he does. I know that he doesn't like it in *his* protocol so it makes me think that it's probably more along the lines of it can change the course of the treatment that he provides. He doesn't like anything that might alter the performance of his treatments. He uses ssri's and MB12 does effect neurotransmitters. He doesn't want you treating a symptom for something when he's trying to get rid of the cause because then it skews how he can interpret what he's doing. Let's say, and this is just a " for instance " , you were doing MB12 while on his protocol and you didn't tell him and you were getting good results. Well, then he may be thinking that his treatment is going fine and doesn't need tweaking when in fact, it's not the treatment at all. You are still left with the underlying cause that is creating the under/over methylation and he has no idea. Did that make sense? Other than that guess, I really don't have a better answer for you. I knew how Dr. G felt about MB12 going into it so I never discuss it with him because I don't want to open that door, if you know what I mean. Cheryl On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:03 PM, wrote: > > Cheryl, > > I hate to ask a simplistic question after such a lengthy explanation, > but does Dr. G think that (nasal) MB12 could be harmful? In other > words, why couldn't you increase methylation *while* you are working > on improving the immune system? > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > > > > > This is scary .. ...... > > > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and dramatically > > > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, > reduces > > > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > > > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention counselor > > > > > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > > > all of this in a nasal spray? > > > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? > > > > > > d > > > > > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... > > > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > > > midian42 <midian42> > > > > > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > > > > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He used to > > > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he > > > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > > > > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are interested. His > > > website is www.stankurtz. > > > com. > > > > > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Dr. G told me that my son already has off-the-charts high B12, but that his body is not assimilating it, and adding more won't be helpful, and may just " feed the virus " . He was adamant that I do not give it to my son (but I had already tried anyway, and saw no improvement whatsoever). I have received B12 shots intramuscularly for years, and I always feel great afterwards. I need them 1-3 times a year, usually. I know when I need one because I start wanting to smoke again (ewwww!) and I'm irritated with everyone, all the time. After the shot, I feel like I've been to the spa for a week. These are a different B12 than the methyl B12 Kurtz promotes. Kristy Re: Re: kurtz To a certain extent I think he does. I know that he doesn't like it in *his* protocol so it makes me think that it's probably more along the lines of it can change the course of the treatment that he provides. He doesn't like anything that might alter the performance of his treatments. He uses ssri's and MB12 does effect neurotransmitters. He doesn't want you treating a symptom for something when he's trying to get rid of the cause because then it skews how he can interpret what he's doing. Let's say, and this is just a " for instance " , you were doing MB12 while on his protocol and you didn't tell him and you were getting good results. Well, then he may be thinking that his treatment is going fine and doesn't need tweaking when in fact, it's not the treatment at all. You are still left with the underlying cause that is creating the under/over methylation and he has no idea. Did that make sense? Other than that guess, I really don't have a better answer for you. I knew how Dr. G felt about MB12 going into it so I never discuss it with him because I don't want to open that door, if you know what I mean. Cheryl On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:03 PM, wrote: > > Cheryl, > > I hate to ask a simplistic question after such a lengthy explanation, > but does Dr. G think that (nasal) MB12 could be harmful? In other > words, why couldn't you increase methylation *while* you are working > on improving the immune system? > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > > > > > This is scary .. ...... > > > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and dramatically > > > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, > reduces > > > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > > > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention counselor > > > > > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > > > all of this in a nasal spray? > > > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? > > > > > > d > > > > > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... > > > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > > > midian42 <midian42> > > > > > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > > > > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He used to > > > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he > > > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > > > > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are interested. His > > > website is www.stankurtz. > > > com. > > > > > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 This is something that is very true within the DAN community, too. Off the charts B12 in DAN means the exact same thing, the body isn't able to use it so it hangs around in the blood. I know they have some things they do to promote use in the body but I can't remember them off the top of my head. The other thing to note is that MB12 isn't always successful. Overmethylators tend to have a negative reaction to MB12 and need a different type of B12 like Hydroxy B12. This falls more into the realm of the Yasko protocol, though. DAN is just starting to import ideas from Yasko so they still aren't all on board in that area. There is a subset of children that use MB12 that end up having such negative reactions that some take a long time to recover from it just to get back to baseline. According to Yasko, sometimes this is a sulfur issue and again needs a different type of B12. Yasko tests certain metabolic genes for mutations and can tell you if you have a child that can tolerate sulfurs or can't, is an over or under methylator, etc. I like the idea but it's expensive. Yasko's protocol is pricey - the genetics test is $750 and you get a generic report, to get a report specific to your child costs another $500 (I think that's the price). And then the supps are pricey and there are about a gazillion. And there's the fact that most people have to do it on their own as there is only a handful of doctors that understand her protocol well enough to implement it since she stopped seeing patients. Now you have to basically just study her books and videos and learn from other parents on her board (but she does post on the board when she can). One thing Yasko and Dr. G agree on is that if you can stabilize the body, you should be able to restore metals excretion. Yasko doesn't bash chelation, though. She does accept it but she also feels that you can achieve metals detox without chelation. Other than that, I don't think she and Dr. G agree on anything. I have no idea if he knows who she is but I remember someone asked him at one point about genetics testing referring to Yasko and he completely tossed it so I know he doesn't see any value in it. And like any other protocol, it doesn't work with all kids. Kristy - I've heard that about MB12 (It may have even been from you a long time ago) - that it can help with nicotine addiction. I've been trying to quit smoking for *years* and I was wondering, did you use MB12 to quit or did you just happen to find out that it relieved your cravings? How do you get your doc to give you the shots 3 or 4 times a year? Another thing I just learned on another list is Valtrex can help the cravings (something I plan to talk to Dr. G about). Stan has some info on his site about Valtrex and nicotine (small blurb) and adenosine. Have you heard anything to this effect? Cheryl On Mar 8, 2008, at 10:25 PM, Kristy Nardini wrote: > Dr. G told me that my son already has off-the-charts high B12, but > that his > body is not assimilating it, and adding more won't be helpful, and > may just > " feed the virus " . He was adamant that I do not give it to my son > (but I had > already tried anyway, and saw no improvement whatsoever). > > I have received B12 shots intramuscularly for years, and I always > feel great > afterwards. I need them 1-3 times a year, usually. I know when I > need one > because I start wanting to smoke again (ewwww!) and I'm irritated with > everyone, all the time. After the shot, I feel like I've been to > the spa for > a week. These are a different B12 than the methyl B12 Kurtz promotes. > > Kristy > > Re: Re: kurtz > > To a certain extent I think he does. I know that he doesn't like it > in *his* protocol so it makes me think that it's probably more along > the lines of it can change the course of the treatment that he > provides. He doesn't like anything that might alter the performance > of his treatments. He uses ssri's and MB12 does effect > neurotransmitters. He doesn't want you treating a symptom for > something when he's trying to get rid of the cause because then it > skews how he can interpret what he's doing. Let's say, and this is > just a " for instance " , you were doing MB12 while on his protocol and > you didn't tell him and you were getting good results. Well, then he > may be thinking that his treatment is going fine and doesn't need > tweaking when in fact, it's not the treatment at all. You are still > left with the underlying cause that is creating the under/over > methylation and he has no idea. Did that make sense? > > Other than that guess, I really don't have a better answer for you. > I knew how Dr. G felt about MB12 going into it so I never discuss it > with him because I don't want to open that door, if you know what I > mean. > > Cheryl > > On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:03 PM, wrote: > > > > > Cheryl, > > > > I hate to ask a simplistic question after such a lengthy > explanation, > > but does Dr. G think that (nasal) MB12 could be harmful? In other > > words, why couldn't you increase methylation *while* you are working > > on improving the immune system? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > > > > > > > This is scary .. ...... > > > > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and > dramatically > > > > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, > > reduces > > > > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > > > > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention > counselor > > > > > > > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > > > > all of this in a nasal spray? > > > > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? > > > > > > > > d > > > > > > > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... > > > > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > > > > midian42 <midian42> > > > > > > > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > > > > > > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He > used to > > > > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he > > > > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > > > > > > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are > interested. His > > > > website is www.stankurtz. > > > > com. > > > > > > > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I know both of my kids tested sky high for B-12. So they are not absorbing it correctly and Dr. G said you can not give mega-doses of vitamins that are not being absorbed correctly. Jerri ---- Original Message ---- From: c.lowrance@... Subject: Re: Re: kurtz Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:11:46 -0800 >To a certain extent I think he does. I know that he doesn't like it > >in *his* protocol so it makes me think that it's probably more along > >the lines of it can change the course of the treatment that he >provides. He doesn't like anything that might alter the performance > >of his treatments. He uses ssri's and MB12 does effect >neurotransmitters. He doesn't want you treating a symptom for >something when he's trying to get rid of the cause because then it >skews how he can interpret what he's doing. Let's say, and this is >just a " for instance " , you were doing MB12 while on his protocol and > >you didn't tell him and you were getting good results. Well, then he > >may be thinking that his treatment is going fine and doesn't need >tweaking when in fact, it's not the treatment at all. You are still > >left with the underlying cause that is creating the under/over >methylation and he has no idea. Did that make sense? > >Other than that guess, I really don't have a better answer for you. > >I knew how Dr. G felt about MB12 going into it so I never discuss it > >with him because I don't want to open that door, if you know what I >mean. > >Cheryl > >On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:03 PM, wrote: > >> >> Cheryl, >> >> I hate to ask a simplistic question after such a lengthy >explanation, >> but does Dr. G think that (nasal) MB12 could be harmful? In other >> words, why couldn't you increase methylation *while* you are >working >> on improving the immune system? >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! >> > > >> > > This is scary .. ...... >> > > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and >dramatically >> > > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, >> reduces >> > > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy >> > > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention >counselor >> > > >> > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... >> > > all of this in a nasal spray? >> > > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? >> > > >> > > d >> > > >> > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... >> > > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> >> > > midian42 <midian42> >> > > >> > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) >> > > >> > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He used >to >> > > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he >> > > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 >> > > >> > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are interested. >His >> > > website is www.stankurtz. >> > > com. >> > > >> > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . >> > > >> > > Cheryl >> > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Stan pointed out to me that the MB12 that recovered his son (along with antivirals - Valtrex?) is METHYL MB12, not *typical* B12. I don't know the specifics, though. Re: re: kurtz He didn't create the nasal spray, he just created the method of administration. It's just MB12 but in nasal spray form. Usually it's administered in shots or orally. MB12 is a major part of the DAN protocol. Remember when we start saying we will only accept peer reviews and research supporting claims, you have to be prepared to do the same for your own methods. is not peer reviewed or researched any more than MB12 (actually, it may even be less than MB12 as we rely *heavily* on research from CFS and HHV6 in relation to *other* things than autism). We are taking research in *other* areas and applying them towards autism. They do the same thing. Dr. Goldberg's protocol is not the only protocol that people use and the reality is, most people use the DAN protocol. is not nearly as prevalent. It is becoming incorporated into DAN to some degree but the biggest thing people have issues with when it comes to doing the protocol is the use of ssri's and the like. They also tend to disagree with diet issues. They put much of their efforts in metabolic issues and Dr. G focuses on immune. So there are some fundamental differences in approaches but the differences are getting smaller as they incorporate more into their protocol. Of course, Dr. G doesn't focus on metabolic at all. There is a lot of research on MB12 and if you go to Dr. Neubrander's site (www.drneubrander.com) you'll find some and I believe Stan has a bunch of research on his site, too. MB12 is not just used to treat autism - it's used in a variety of health conditions so there is a lot of study on it although it's still not very well accepted by the traditional medical community (but again, neither is ). The biggest problem that Dr. G has with MB12 (that I've gathered from our conversations) is that he believes it's not treating the cause, it's treating a symptom. To him, MB12 isn't the answer because poor methylation is a byproduct of a poor immune system so you wouldn't be changing the immune system with MB12, just increasing methylation. Stan's a good guy. Dr. G and he haven't spoken to each other in a while as far as I know but Stan highly respects Dr. G. He may disagree with some fundamental issues as far as treating autism, but he does respect him. I tend to believe the feeling is mutual but I could be wrong. Dr. G and he disagree on some pretty major things so I don't know, maybe it's not mutual! Cheryl On Mar 8, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Doris and Steve wrote: > > Thanks for the info Cheryl! > > This is scary .. ...... > He created a vitamin nasal spray that immediately and dramatically > normalizes brain activity, restores immune system function, reduces > chronic pain, lessens anxiety, and improves energy > ... he is a technology executive and crisis intervention counselor > > wow ... sounds like a snake oil treatment ... > all of this in a nasal spray? > where are the peer reviews and research supporting his claims? > > d > > Posted by: " Cheryl Lowrance " c.lowrance@... > <mailto:c.lowrance@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dr%20Kurtz%20%3F> > midian42 <midian42> > > Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:06 am (PST) > > Doris, he's not a doctor, he's a father and researcher. He used to > be a patient of Dr. G's but they disagree on many things and he > left. Dr. G disagrees with Stan and MB12 > > He has a group called MB12Valtrex if you are interested. His > website is www.stankurtz. > com. > > He recovered his son through combining DAN and . > > Cheryl > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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