Re: Help with communication... PECS?

March 18, 2008

My son is almost to turn 5 & is still non-verbal. He

makes sounds, but has no speech. I am very stressed

about it & Dr G says not to do anything " extra " just

speech therapy and talking to him. While I respect

him completely, I am also feeling very worried about

him not talking. School speech paths recommend PECS,

picture exchange system, and say that it enhances

speech instead of preventing it. Part of me wants to

give it a try, but I don't want to do anything to set

him back or make him have to " unlearn " . Anybody had a

similar experience or any thoughts/advice? I'm really

worried about his speech! He is showing cognitive

improvement, just nothing verbal.

Thanks!

--- Argie Olivo <golivo@...> wrote:

> Hi Alaine,

>

> We started using Kyodophylus twice a day, cut out

> brown rice & brown

> sugar all at the same time and my son's

> " reflux/gagging " stopped

> completely.

>

> I hope this helps.

>

> On Mar 15, 2008, at 12:44 PM, alaine0617 wrote:

>

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I see alot of postings about probiotics. Can you

> give my some

> > practical info - how do they interact/enhance the

> rest of the

> > protocol; what affects (positive or negative) have

> you seen once

> > you're

> > using them?

> >

> > I have noticed that, if 's on an antibiotic

> (amoxicillin), he

> > seems

> > more sharp and engaged. Don't know if others have

> noticed this or

> > not -

> > he's recovering from a sinus infection, so he's

> taking it now; he also

> > had an infected finger a couple of months ago, and

> we saw the same

> > affect then.

> >

> > Thanks! Alaine

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

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March 18, 2008

I think PECS is awesome. You need to give him a way to communicate

and I can tell you that my son used pictures for a while and they

really do help with speech. It's not guaranteed but I definitely

don't think it hurts. I don't think this is something that Dr. G

would be opposed to anyway as it is a part of many speech therapy

programs. It can really help to build up confidence and motivation.

When you give them a means to communicate, you give them the desire

to communicate more.

cheryl

On Mar 18, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Curtis and Hackler wrote:

> My son is almost to turn 5 & is still non-verbal. He

> makes sounds, but has no speech. I am very stressed

> about it & Dr G says not to do anything " extra " just

> speech therapy and talking to him. While I respect

> him completely, I am also feeling very worried about

> him not talking. School speech paths recommend PECS,

> picture exchange system, and say that it enhances

> speech instead of preventing it. Part of me wants to

> give it a try, but I don't want to do anything to set

> him back or make him have to " unlearn " . Anybody had a

> similar experience or any thoughts/advice? I'm really

> worried about his speech! He is showing cognitive

> improvement, just nothing verbal.

> Thanks!

>

> --- Argie Olivo <golivo@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi Alaine,

> >

> > We started using Kyodophylus twice a day, cut out

> > brown rice & brown

> > sugar all at the same time and my son's

> > " reflux/gagging " stopped

> > completely.

> >

> > I hope this helps.

> >

> > On Mar 15, 2008, at 12:44 PM, alaine0617 wrote:

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I see alot of postings about probiotics. Can you

> > give my some

> > > practical info - how do they interact/enhance the

> > rest of the

> > > protocol; what affects (positive or negative) have

> > you seen once

> > > you're

> > > using them?

> > >

> > > I have noticed that, if 's on an antibiotic

> > (amoxicillin), he

> > > seems

> > > more sharp and engaged. Don't know if others have

> > noticed this or

> > > not -

> > > he's recovering from a sinus infection, so he's

> > taking it now; he also

> > > had an infected finger a couple of months ago, and

> > we saw the same

> > > affect then.

> > >

> > > Thanks! Alaine

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./

> newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

March 18, 2008

Cheryl-

Would you mind telling me a bit more about your

experience with using PECS? How was it introduced to

your son, did he carry a little " travel size " book

with him everywhere or was it mainly used at home &

school? Did he speak before using PECS and when/how

did you know when to stop the PECS?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to know from

someone who has actually used it, not just read about

it. I'm kind of tired of all the experts in the world

who don't live this life! :-)

THanks-

--- Cheryl Lowrance <c.lowrance@...> wrote:

> I think PECS is awesome. You need to give him a way

> to communicate

> and I can tell you that my son used pictures for a

> while and they

> really do help with speech. It's not guaranteed but

> I definitely

> don't think it hurts. I don't think this is

> something that Dr. G

> would be opposed to anyway as it is a part of many

> speech therapy

> programs. It can really help to build up confidence

> and motivation.

> When you give them a means to communicate, you give

> them the desire

> to communicate more.

>

> cheryl

>

> On Mar 18, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Curtis and

> Hackler wrote:

>

> > My son is almost to turn 5 & is still non-verbal.

> He

> > makes sounds, but has no speech. I am very

> stressed

> > about it & Dr G says not to do anything " extra "

> just

> > speech therapy and talking to him. While I respect

> > him completely, I am also feeling very worried

> about

> > him not talking. School speech paths recommend

> PECS,

> > picture exchange system, and say that it enhances

> > speech instead of preventing it. Part of me wants

> to

> > give it a try, but I don't want to do anything to

> set

> > him back or make him have to " unlearn " . Anybody

> had a

> > similar experience or any thoughts/advice? I'm

> really

> > worried about his speech! He is showing cognitive

> > improvement, just nothing verbal.

> > Thanks!

> >

> > --- Argie Olivo <golivo@...> wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Alaine,

> > >

> > > We started using Kyodophylus twice a day, cut

> out

> > > brown rice & brown

> > > sugar all at the same time and my son's

> > > " reflux/gagging " stopped

> > > completely.

> > >

> > > I hope this helps.

> > >

> > > On Mar 15, 2008, at 12:44 PM, alaine0617 wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > I see alot of postings about probiotics. Can

> you

> > > give my some

> > > > practical info - how do they interact/enhance

> the

> > > rest of the

> > > > protocol; what affects (positive or negative)

> have

> > > you seen once

> > > > you're

> > > > using them?

> > > >

> > > > I have noticed that, if 's on an

> antibiotic

> > > (amoxicillin), he

> > > > seems

> > > > more sharp and engaged. Don't know if others

> have

> > > noticed this or

> > > > not -

> > > > he's recovering from a sinus infection, so

> he's

> > > taking it now; he also

> > > > had an infected finger a couple of months ago,

> and

> > > we saw the same

> > > > affect then.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks! Alaine

> > > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> >

>

__________________________________________________________

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > Find them fast with Search.

> http://tools.search./

> > newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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March 19, 2008

,

's always been verbal, but was severly echolalic. Although we

didn't adopt the entire PECS system, we found parts of it to be

really useful in helping him replace the echolalia with functional

language, as well as pinpoint what functions the echolalia was being

used for. We used it (and still do) alot for sentence structure,

vocabulary building, utterance length...

You might also want to look into signing - at one point last year we

looked into a total communication program at a local school for the

deaf (didn't end up placing him there). The kids are immersed in

speaking, signing, pictures and other technological aides (many of

the hearing impaired kids had implants). We ultimately found that,

here and there, had been utilizing simple signing (we didn't

realize because we didn't know the signs). His public school teacher

uses signs in conjunction with speaking, even though noone in his

class is hearing impaired.

The way it's been explained to me is that the internal language

development process is the same no matter what ultimate method of

cumminication you're using. So the pictures (or sign language) will

help develop the communication, and if your son can talk, he

eventually will replace the pictures (or sign language) with speech.

Hang in there...

Alaine

March 19, 2008

Sheri

there could be a number of reasons that children might be taught pecs

instead of sign language. hopefully the decision is made based on the

individual child and not just what is available or known about.

many children who have trouble with speech output have apraxia--a motor

output planning problem--and if it affects speech it often affects the fine

motor skills--like for signing. so, signs might not be as easy for your

child.

sign language is fleeting--not as fleeting as spoken language, but it flies

by and you don't have any way of " capturing " it and being able to replay it

later. picture/symbol systems are much more static---they are there and you

can see if again, see if for longer (if you are a slower processor). good

pecs programs include the text as well as the picture--some of our kids pick

up on the text without even being taught to read, so this can be very

powerful.

you said that her communication is limited by the picture symbols that you

have. true. but that is often the case with sign language as well---and just

because the school has taught a sign to the child doesn't mean that everyone

in else in the child's world (home, daycare,classmates, people in the

community) also knows that sign. so, I have periodically had kids who were

using a sign appropriately but no one else realized it was a sign and a

communication attempt--at least with pecs we, as the " listener " , have the

tangible, visual image of what the child is trying to say. and with the text

on the symbol we can read the mesage, which often increases our

comprehension of what has been said.

I am a great advocate of using as many different ways to communiate as

possible---

ann

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

> Can someone tell me why children who have the ability to use pecs are

> not taught sign language? I can not figure out for the life of me why the

> school does not want to go this route with my daughter when she is clearly

> capable of learning the language. Instead they want to use the PECS. I can't

> see them being practical because who wants to carry them around and she is

> limited by the cards that we have with us. Sheri

>

> Cheryl Lowrance <c.lowrance@... <c.lowrance%40ca.rr.com>> wrote: We

> never moved beyond picture scheduling and pictures for basic

> things. When we started the protocol speech took off and there

> really wasn't a need for it. You'll know when you don't need it

> anymore as you'll be relying on it less and less. So we never got to

> full blown PECS.

>

> My friend's son uses the whole system and it's been a life saver for

> them. It really helped to bring language and calm behaviors due to

> frustration. She does have the full book and uses a mini book when

> out and about. One of the biggest things it helped with in her son

> is the fact that he is soooooo rigid. He would throw a fit if she

> said one thing and had to make a change on where they were going. So

> she was able to PECS any changes and he understood. He didn't always

> like it but he did understand! He slowly gained speech and now

> he doesn't need it as much. She used it for *everything*. What he

> ate, what he drank, tv shows, bath time, etc. It really helped to

> connect the pictures with the words.

>

> For us, we really just use it now for picture scheduling on tough

> days in ABA. And we don't even use pictures anymore, we just draw it

> out. 3 activities and then his reward. So we'll draw out (for

> instance) letters in one box for writing, candyland for a turn taking

> activity, and a book for reading and recall and then the last box

> we'll draw whatever he wants to do (like a sword for sword

> fighting). On the tough days it works well but it's definitely not

> perfect!

>

> Cheryl

>

> On Mar 18, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Curtis and Hackler wrote:

>

> > Cheryl-

> > Would you mind telling me a bit more about your

> > experience with using PECS? How was it introduced to

> > your son, did he carry a little " travel size " book

> > with him everywhere or was it mainly used at home &

> > school? Did he speak before using PECS and when/how

> > did you know when to stop the PECS?

> >

> > Sorry for all the questions, I just want to know from

> > someone who has actually used it, not just read about

> > it. I'm kind of tired of all the experts in the world

> > who don't live this life! :-)

> >

> > THanks-

> > --- Cheryl Lowrance <c.lowrance@... <c.lowrance%40ca.rr.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > > I think PECS is awesome. You need to give him a way

> > > to communicate

> > > and I can tell you that my son used pictures for a

> > > while and they

> > > really do help with speech. It's not guaranteed but

> > > I definitely

> > > don't think it hurts. I don't think this is

> > > something that Dr. G

> > > would be opposed to anyway as it is a part of many

> > > speech therapy

> > > programs. It can really help to build up confidence

> > > and motivation.

> > > When you give them a means to communicate, you give

> > > them the desire

> > > to communicate more.

> > >

> > > cheryl

> > >

> > > On Mar 18, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Curtis and

> > > Hackler wrote:

> > >

> > > > My son is almost to turn 5 & is still non-verbal.

> > > He

> > > > makes sounds, but has no speech. I am very

> > > stressed

> > > > about it & Dr G says not to do anything " extra "

> > > just

> > > > speech therapy and talking to him. While I respect

> > > > him completely, I am also feeling very worried

> > > about

> > > > him not talking. School speech paths recommend

> > > PECS,

> > > > picture exchange system, and say that it enhances

> > > > speech instead of preventing it. Part of me wants

> > > to

> > > > give it a try, but I don't want to do anything to

> > > set

> > > > him back or make him have to " unlearn " . Anybody

> > > had a

> > > > similar experience or any thoughts/advice? I'm

> > > really

> > > > worried about his speech! He is showing cognitive

> > > > improvement, just nothing verbal.

> > > > Thanks!

> > > >

> > > > --- Argie Olivo <golivo@... <golivo%40cox.net>> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Alaine,

> > > > >

> > > > > We started using Kyodophylus twice a day, cut

> > > out

> > > > > brown rice & brown

> > > > > sugar all at the same time and my son's

> > > > > " reflux/gagging " stopped

> > > > > completely.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope this helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > On Mar 15, 2008, at 12:44 PM, alaine0617 wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I see alot of postings about probiotics. Can

> > > you

> > > > > give my some

> > > > > > practical info - how do they interact/enhance

> > > the

> > > > > rest of the

> > > > > > protocol; what affects (positive or negative)

> > > have

> > > > > you seen once

> > > > > > you're

> > > > > > using them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have noticed that, if 's on an

> > > antibiotic

> > > > > (amoxicillin), he

> > > > > > seems

> > > > > > more sharp and engaged. Don't know if others

> > > have

> > > > > noticed this or

> > > > > > not -

> > > > > > he's recovering from a sinus infection, so

> > > he's

> > > > > taking it now; he also

> > > > > > had an infected finger a couple of months ago,

> > > and

> > > > > we saw the same

> > > > > > affect then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks! Alaine

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > > > Find them fast with Search.

> > > http://tools.search./

> > > > newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

> > > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://

> > mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

> >

>

March 19, 2008

Oh please not all SLP are created equally. My daughter can sing songs using

intonation however she does not speak more than 9 words and some of them only a

mother would know. Her receptive language is amazing and she even follows 3-4

step commands. Her tongue does not move properly it seems to roll from the back

and she struggles to make it point. She tries to do everything that is asked of

her and yet I have to beg to get the speech person to do oral motor exercises

with her. It is so frustrating. Oh and then our speech person told me that she

was using a form of sign that was modified for . I nearly lost my

mind....what is she thinking is capable of learning the proper sign and

that is what is to be expected. Heck if I lowered my standards every time

wanted something her way I would still be dealing with a infant like

child instead of that well behaved child that she has become. It is all very

frustrating. Sheri

Cheryl Lowrance <c.lowrance@...> wrote: This sounds odd to me

because usually sign *is* a part of an SLP

program, if the child is able and willing. And it's used in *many*

schools starting in preschool. Heck, it's used on Blues Clues!

cheryl

On Mar 18, 2008, at 8:07 PM, Sheri wrote:

> Can someone tell me why children who have the ability to use pecs

> are not taught sign language? I can not figure out for the life of

> me why the school does not want to go this route with my daughter

> when she is clearly capable of learning the language. Instead they

> want to use the PECS. I can't see them being practical because who

> wants to carry them around and she is limited by the cards that we

> have with us. Sheri

>

> Cheryl Lowrance <c.lowrance@...> wrote: We never moved beyond

> picture scheduling and pictures for basic