Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Neurofeedback is great and works well, but I am more apt to start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum. The Drake Institute put on the map neurofeedback, however they only treat ADHD or the highest functioning Asperger's (they don't treat any autism). Just like in every arena, professionals have their own theories and way of doing things. I personally start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum (and ADHD, Anxiety, etc...) because biofeedback directly targets the central nervous system - breathing, muscle tension, heart rate variability, temp control, etc... and it allows you to do the work at home and not be so dependent on me, the therapist. This notion completely supports Dr. Goldberg's views as well because the central nervous system is directly related to the immune system. The CNS acts reciprocally with the immune system, the CNS drives immunity, and the immune system regulates the CNS. Once, and if, because it is very intensive and hard work for these kids to learn proper breathing, muscle relaxation, heart rate variability, etc..., I will introduce neurofeedback. Neurofeedback works with the brain waves of individuals. Certain brainwaves are correlated with certain symptoms and then training for better patters is targeted. I attribute much of my therepeutic success with patients because of the protocol basis. If parents adamently want to start with neurofeedback first however, I will only with their agreeing to first understand the aspects behind both methods. QEEG's are amazing too because we can see how the brain is functioning according to brain wave patterns. Training according to the QEEG is beneficial, but training without a QEEG is still extremely successful. It is almost analogous to Dr. Goldberg treating without a SPECT Scan, great results without a SPECT but with one helps if you want to spend the money and fight with insurance companies... Sincerely, L. Juarez, PhD Candidate, M.S., Marriage and Family Therapist www.hopecounselingtherapist.com On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:39 AM, alaine0617 wrote: Hi all, Hope the summer is going well for everyone. I've seen some posts here and there on neurofeedback. We have a neurofeedback provider nearby and went in with for a demo. I have to say, we were pretty impressed. I'm in the process of checking the references they provided, but I was wondering if those here who have had experience with it could give me some insight. Did you see the improvements you were expecting, and in what way did it help? The more info the better. Thanks!! Alaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 We have tried Neurofeedback at the Drake Institute and had much more success with our ADD child. My child with high-functioning autism had zero improvement after ten sessions. My only goal for him was to help regulate his central nervous system. So what says, makes sense to me. I live in the Pasadena, California area. Does anyone know a great place to go for biofeedback sessions?? Leanne RE: Neurofeedback?? Neurofeedback is great and works well, but I am more apt to start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum. The Drake Institute put on the map neurofeedback, however they only treat ADHD or the highest functioning Asperger's (they don't treat any autism). Just like in every arena, professionals have their own theories and way of doing things. I personally start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum (and ADHD, Anxiety, etc...) because biofeedback directly targets the central nervous system - breathing, muscle tension, heart rate variability, temp control, etc... and it allows you to do the work at home and not be so dependent on me, the therapist. This notion completely supports Dr. Goldberg's views as well because the central nervous system is directly related to the immune system. The CNS acts reciprocally with the immune system, the CNS drives immunity, and the immune system regulates the CNS. Once, and if, because it is very intensive and hard work for these kids to learn proper breathing, muscle relaxation, heart rate variability, etc..., I will introduce neurofeedback. Neurofeedback works with the brain waves of individuals. Certain brainwaves are correlated with certain symptoms and then training for better patters is targeted. I attribute much of my therepeutic success with patients because of the protocol basis. If parents adamently want to start with neurofeedback first however, I will only with their agreeing to first understand the aspects behind both methods. QEEG's are amazing too because we can see how the brain is functioning according to brain wave patterns. Training according to the QEEG is beneficial, but training without a QEEG is still extremely successful. It is almost analogous to Dr. Goldberg treating without a SPECT Scan, great results without a SPECT but with one helps if you want to spend the money and fight with insurance companies... Sincerely, L. Juarez, PhD Candidate, M.S., Marriage and Family Therapist www.hopecounselingtherapist.com On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:39 AM, alaine0617 wrote: Hi all, Hope the summer is going well for everyone. I've seen some posts here and there on neurofeedback. We have a neurofeedback provider nearby and went in with for a demo. I have to say, we were pretty impressed. I'm in the process of checking the references they provided, but I was wondering if those here who have had experience with it could give me some insight. Did you see the improvements you were expecting, and in what way did it help? The more info the better. Thanks!! Alaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I have done both biofeedback and neurofeedback and can understand how both would be beneficial but can't really see how they would be that similar. Neurofeedback does seem to require many more treatments for those on the autistic spectrum than those with ADHD but I've seen it be very helpful for several kids/teens. The person does need to be able to sit and focus on a game or movie for 20 minute periods though in order to train in the way my son has. Some do a more passive form of training but I haven't seen very good results with that. While I have heard from some who have seen benefits without the QEEG, I don't think I'd go that route since I know of several who didn't see progress and two that got much worse. We started neurofeedback in hopes of improving comprehension and focus. Since we did QEEG-guided, the first several rounds pointed to more of a need to work in the sensory and motor areas. My son experienced very rapid improvement in those areas so much that he was able to master some Tae Kwon Do moves he was struggling with for months after only two treatments. He was also suddenly able to do many motor tasks that were terribly difficult for him prior to the treatment. The cognitive and focus progress was either very subtle or not existent during the first few rounds (15 sessions) for those areas. However, after a second QEEG and more sessions, he experienced very obvious improvement especially in reducing his " stuck brain " moments (OCD behaviors). Our doctor added use of some flashing glasses that help the process along in difficult cases after the third QEEG. With those, and very targeted work, we saw some very good improvement in working memory, judgement, emotional understanding and better verbal expression. He's just finished the first round of 5 sessions after his 4th QEEG. This first round treated a problem with urinary retention we think that Paxil had caused. This has obviously helped. Our insurance has covered the treatments at 70-80%, 100% after we meet our out of pocket maximum (which we usually do for medical). They are charged as an office visit though rather than neurofeedback training. The only thing that hasn't been easily covered was that one code for the QEEG, which runs about $300. Gaylen **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 My clinic is Rancho Cucamonga, but I will ask some of the other professionals I consult with on biofeedback if they know anyone who will actually work with kids on the spectrum close to Pasadena. I can off list email you when I get more info. Sincerely, L. Juarez, PhD Candidate, M.S., Marriage and Family Therapist On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Leanne wrote: We have tried Neurofeedback at the Drake Institute and had much more success with our ADD child. My child with high-functioning autism had zero improvement after ten sessions. My only goal for him was to help regulate his central nervous system. So what says, makes sense to me. I live in the Pasadena, California area. Does anyone know a great place to go for biofeedback sessions?? Leanne RE: Neurofeedback? ? Neurofeedback is great and works well, but I am more apt to start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum. The Drake Institute put on the map neurofeedback, however they only treat ADHD or the highest functioning Asperger's (they don't treat any autism). Just like in every arena, professionals have their own theories and way of doing things. I personally start with biofeedback for kids on the spectrum (and ADHD, Anxiety, etc...) because biofeedback directly targets the central nervous system - breathing, muscle tension, heart rate variability, temp control, etc... and it allows you to do the work at home and not be so dependent on me, the therapist. This notion completely supports Dr. Goldberg's views as well because the central nervous system is directly related to the immune system. The CNS acts reciprocally with the immune system, the CNS drives immunity, and the immune system regulates the CNS. Once, and if, because it is very intensive and hard work for these kids to learn proper breathing, muscle relaxation, heart rate variability, etc..., I will introduce neurofeedback. Neurofeedback works with the brain waves of individuals. Certain brainwaves are correlated with certain symptoms and then training for better patters is targeted. I attribute much of my therepeutic success with patients because of the protocol basis. If parents adamently want to start with neurofeedback first however, I will only with their agreeing to first understand the aspects behind both methods. QEEG's are amazing too because we can see how the brain is functioning according to brain wave patterns. Training according to the QEEG is beneficial, but training without a QEEG is still extremely successful. It is almost analogous to Dr. Goldberg treating without a SPECT Scan, great results without a SPECT but with one helps if you want to spend the money and fight with insurance companies... Sincerely, L. Juarez, PhD Candidate, M.S., Marriage and Family Therapist www.hopecounselingt herapist. com On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:39 AM, alaine0617 wrote: Hi all, Hope the summer is going well for everyone. I've seen some posts here and there on neurofeedback. We have a neurofeedback provider nearby and went in with for a demo. I have to say, we were pretty impressed. I'm in the process of checking the references they provided, but I was wondering if those here who have had experience with it could give me some insight. Did you see the improvements you were expecting, and in what way did it help? The more info the better. Thanks!! Alaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 In a message dated 7/11/2008 1:21:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, j_h95037@... writes: <<You said your insurance covered 70-80% for the treament. What is the code you using for applying the reimbursement from the insruane ?>> I don't know the exact code since the doctor's office files it electronically. It's billed as an office visit. The QEEG code they paid for was for the EEG but they refused to pay for the code that designated the part for interpreting the EEG, citing that it should have been part of the EEG fee. Gaylen **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Gaylen,  You said your insurance covered 70-80% for the treament. What is the code you using for applying the reimbursement from the insruane ?  From: Googahly@... <Googahly@...> Subject: Re: Neurofeedback?? Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 7:09 AM I have done both biofeedback and neurofeedback and can understand how both would be beneficial but can't really see how they would be that similar. Neurofeedback does seem to require many more treatments for those on the autistic spectrum than those with ADHD but I've seen it be very helpful for several kids/teens. The person does need to be able to sit and focus on a game or movie for 20 minute periods though in order to train in the way my son has. Some do a more passive form of training but I haven't seen very good results with that. While I have heard from some who have seen benefits without the QEEG, I don't think I'd go that route since I know of several who didn't see progress and two that got much worse. We started neurofeedback in hopes of improving comprehension and focus. Since we did QEEG-guided, the first several rounds pointed to more of a need to work in the sensory and motor areas. My son experienced very rapid improvement in those areas so much that he was able to master some Tae Kwon Do moves he was struggling with for months after only two treatments. He was also suddenly able to do many motor tasks that were terribly difficult for him prior to the treatment. The cognitive and focus progress was either very subtle or not existent during the first few rounds (15 sessions) for those areas. However, after a second QEEG and more sessions, he experienced very obvious improvement especially in reducing his " stuck brain " moments (OCD behaviors). Our doctor added use of some flashing glasses that help the process along in difficult cases after the third QEEG. With those, and very targeted work, we saw some very good improvement in working memory, judgement, emotional understanding and better verbal expression. He's just finished the first round of 5 sessions after his 4th QEEG. This first round treated a problem with urinary retention we think that Paxil had caused. This has obviously helped. Our insurance has covered the treatments at 70-80%, 100% after we meet our out of pocket maximum (which we usually do for medical). They are charged as an office visit though rather than neurofeedback training. The only thing that hasn't been easily covered was that one code for the QEEG, which runs about $300. Gaylen ************ **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker. com! (http://www.tourtrac ker.com?NCID= aolmus0005000000 0112) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 The Drake Institute put on the > map neurofeedback, however they only treat ADHD or the highest > functioning Asperger's (they don't treat any autism). Not true. My son has HF autism (*not* Asperger's) and has been in treatment there since January. Drake started treating HFA patients about three years ago. Autistic patients take longer to see results than ADD/ADHD/Asperger's patients. We didn't see any significant results until about the 22nd session. Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 We actually saw results by the 4th or 5th session, as I remember it, but my son is an unusual responder, I'm told. (He was almost 4 years old at the time). I would encourage anyone to try the neurofeedback with a kid with ASD. I would also suggest working with someone who will let you train from home, as it is way cheaper (once you buy the equipment). nne > We didn't see any significant > results until about the 22nd session. > > Donna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Donna, What kid of results??? That's exciting! On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:31 PM, thefamily007 wrote: > The Drake Institute put on the > > map neurofeedback, however they only treat ADHD or the highest > > functioning Asperger's (they don't treat any autism). > > Not true. My son has HF autism (*not* Asperger's) and has been in > treatment there since January. Drake started treating HFA patients > about three years ago. Autistic patients take longer to see results > than ADD/ADHD/Asperger's patients. We didn't see any significant > results until about the 22nd session. > > Donna > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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