Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 Dennis wrote: > Any beneficial uses you can think of for poison ivy? Dennis, Believe it or not, poison ivy does not yet have the components necessary to irritate in very early spring. Some people collect the young spring poison ivy shoots as an " edible " green. My understanding, though, is that they don't do so for its nutritional or culinary value, but rather to build a resistance to the irritants as the plants mature. Honestly, I don't recommend experimenting with this unless you're able to find some very specific information about how people do this, but I definitely remember reading about it. Perhaps in the Foxfire series of books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 > > Any beneficial uses you can think of for poison ivy? > > Dennis, > > Believe it or not, poison ivy does not yet have the components > necessary to irritate in very early spring. Some people collect the > young spring poison ivy shoots as an " edible " green. My > understanding, though, is that they don't do so for its nutritional > or culinary value, but rather to build a resistance to the irritants > as the plants mature. > > Honestly, I don't recommend experimenting with this unless you're > able to find some very specific information about how people do this, > but I definitely remember reading about it. Perhaps in the Foxfire > series of books? > > >>>>>>>>>>Hello : Believe it or not I got poison ivy one spring planting bulbs in a poison ivy patch I didn't know about. I learned to identify the roots since then. I do very little experimenting around poison ivy. For instance I don't drink the cow's milk if I think she MIGHT have eaten some ivy. I won't even milk her if I think she might have walked thru the poison ivy patch and gotten the oils on her tail. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 You're safer resistance wise to take the homeopathic remedy rhus toxicodron which is minute doses of poison ivy. Even though I can sit in it and not get it someone who can't shouldn't push it. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000@...> < > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:10 PM Subject: Weeds > Any beneficial uses you can think of for poison ivy? I don't know of human beneficial uses, but I recall Sara Stein mentioning poison ivy in " Noah's Garden " or maybe " Planting Noah's Garden " (both wonderful books on native plants). She wrote that if poison ivy is allowed to grow to the top of a tree, when its berries turn red in the fall, migrating birds can see and eat them. -Linnea> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2002 Report Share Posted March 13, 2002 If you can borrow a goat, they will eat it for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: dkemnitz2000 Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:10 PM Subject: Weeds Any beneficial uses you can think of for poison ivy? It seems like this is truly a weed, a detriment to my soil and skin, and to top it off I think it grows in my best soil in the timber. I ask because I want to use soil from the timber on the garden crops to improve the nutrient content of the vegetables. I'm thinking Mr. Albrecht would approve. Am I wrong? Dennis Kemnitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 --- In , " Marla " <talithakumi@e...> wrote: > On page 25 he writes about Pottenger's Cats. Let me quote > part of it: " Readers of Acres U.S.A. in general, and those > who have enjoyed the short book, Pottenger's Cats, > will recall how that great scientists planted dwarf beans in > beach sand at Monrovia, California as part of an experiemnt. > Cats had been raised on that beach sand. Some had been > fed evaporated milk, others raw meat, still others meat that > had been cooked to achieve near total enzyme-destroying > potential and some had been fed on raw milk. Cats fed > evaporated milk, cooked meat--dung going into the beach sand > --produced a dilapidated, depressed crop of beans. Cats fed > whole milk--their dung also going into the beach sand, produced a > prolific and extended crop, the dwarf bean variety growing > to the top of a six-foot-high cage. The quality of manures > used in composting have a direct bearing on the performance of that > compost. " Gee, even poop from a poorly nourished animal is > lacking in nutrients! Do we need to raise our own animals too > for quality fertilizer?! Ha! Hi Marla: I am sure Walters Jr would agree with me that for a better understanding of the plant experiments in the cat pens, see Chapter 11, " The Problems of the Proteins " , Volume II of " The Albrecht Papers " , starting at page 142. What a surprise, what goes in the front end of the animal controls the fertility of the organic matter that comes out the back end. Do you think that organic matter from crops grown on low soil fertility has much of a chance to improve soil fertility much anywhere else? Even if it did, it would just be robbing to pay . Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 --- Why is bat guano considered an excellent soil amendment? Or do you consider it excellent? In , " soilfertility <ynos@c...> " <ynos@c...> wrote: > > > On page 25 he writes about Pottenger's Cats. Let me quote > > part of it: " Readers of Acres U.S.A. in general, and those > > who have enjoyed the short book, Pottenger's Cats, > > will recall how that great scientists planted dwarf beans in > > beach sand at Monrovia, California as part of an experiemnt. > > Cats had been raised on that beach sand. Some had been > > fed evaporated milk, others raw meat, still others meat that > > had been cooked to achieve near total enzyme-destroying > > potential and some had been fed on raw milk. Cats fed > > evaporated milk, cooked meat--dung going into the beach sand > > --produced a dilapidated, depressed crop of beans. Cats fed > > whole milk--their dung also going into the beach sand, produced a > > prolific and extended crop, the dwarf bean variety growing > > to the top of a six-foot-high cage. The quality of manures > > used in composting have a direct bearing on the performance of that > > compost. " Gee, even poop from a poorly nourished animal is > > lacking in nutrients! Do we need to raise our own animals too > > for quality fertilizer?! Ha! > > Hi Marla: > I am sure Walters Jr would agree with me that for a better > understanding of the plant experiments in the cat pens, see Chapter > 11, " The Problems of the Proteins " , Volume II of " The Albrecht > Papers " , starting at page 142. > What a surprise, what goes in the front end of the animal controls > the fertility of the organic matter that comes out the back end. Do > you think that organic matter from crops grown on low soil fertility > has much of a chance to improve soil fertility much anywhere else? > Even if it did, it would just be robbing to pay . > Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hi Chi: > I am sure Walters Jr would agree with me that for a better > understanding of the plant experiments in the cat pens, see Chapter > 11, " The Problems of the Proteins " , Volume II of " The Albrecht > Papers " , starting at page 142. ### I don't have that material handy here to read, so can't comment on that. I'll try to find it when I get a chance. > What a surprise, what goes in the front end of the animal controls > the fertility of the organic matter that comes out the back end. Do > you think that organic matter from crops grown on low soil fertility > has much of a chance to improve soil fertility much anywhere else? > Even if it did, it would just be robbing to pay . > Chi ### I think I can see your point here, however, the part about robbing to pay sounds like you're saying that trying to improve your soil by adding natural nutrients is a bad thing. I agree that we are shipping foods (livestock and crops) around the world and thus shifting nutrients around which robs nutrients from the original destination, but those minerals still exist. They have not left the world. I would venture to say that a lot of our minerals are being dumped into the oceans or dump sites. Not enough people are composting their waste to keep valuable minerals in the soil. Maybe before I go on I should understand more of what you're trying to say here. . . Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 > --- Why is bat guano considered an excellent soil amendment? > Or do you consider it excellent? It depends on how healthy the bat population was, what the bats ate and the local soil fertility conditions that created the food the bats ate. I will certainly say that unlike humans, when it comes to nutrition, bats aren't stupid. So I would expect bat guano to always be better fertilizer than human manure in any given area. Farmers in the USA once used sea bird guano from South America. When the local governments realized how superior it was to commercial fertilizer, they prohibited its export. The farmers in the USA were forced to use commercial fertilizer that was not as good. (More information from Albrecht via " The Albrecht Papers " .) Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 --- In , " Marla " <talithakumi@e...> wrote: > ### I think I can see your point here, however, the part > about robbing to pay sounds like you're saying > that trying to improve your soil by adding natural nutrients is > a bad thing. I agree that we are shipping foods (livestock and > crops) around the world and thus shifting nutrients around > which robs nutrients from the original destination, but those > minerals still exist. They have not left the world. > I would venture to say that a lot of our minerals are being dumped > into the oceans or dump sites. Not enough people are composting > their waste to keep valuable minerals in the soil. Maybe before > I go on I should understand more of what you're trying to say > here. . . Hi Marla: I was pointing out if you compost organic vegetative matter that was grown somewhere else, you are trying to improve your soil fertility by reducing the soil fertility somewhere else and the value as fertilizer of the organic vegetative matter you are composting depends on the soil fertility in which that vegetative matter was originally grown. Thus, composting organic vegetative matter grown in high soil fertility will be much better for your garden than composting organic vegetative matter that was originally grown in low soil fertility. The experiment with the cat dung showed that dwarf beans grown in the pens that had housed cats that were fed 2/3 raw milk and 1/3 raw meat reverted to pole beans, while the dwarf beans grown in the pens that had housed cats that were fed 2/3 cooked milk of various types and 1/3 raw meat grew as dwarf beans. Interestingly, the seeds were all beans of the dwarf variety, so the genetic defect (dwarfism) was corrected in the current generation that had the defective gene, it didn't require a second generation in the good cat dung soil to fix it. It seems to me this is the way genetic defects should be corrected, not by some bozo genetic engineer. It's surprising to me that anyone I have heard talk about the Cat Experiment never mentions the dwarf bean experiment or its significance. Boggle. You are right about minerals going to the oceans, but nobody needs to dump them there, it's a natural process of nature. Also, when a farmer mines his soil of minerals to grow crops he depletes the minerals in his soil. People eat the food and where does the human waste go? Back to the farmer's field? I wouldn't worry about shipping food around the world having any effect on changing soil fertility around the world. Food is grown for quantity, not nutritional quality. Food of low nutritional value places little demand on the minerals in the soil fertility, it just needs the wind the rain and the sunshine. The problem with most soils is not a lack of minerals, but rather a lack of mineral availability in the soil. Modern agricultural practices are making minerals in the soil less available. The term to describe it is that the minerals are " locked up " . When minerals are locked up, usually no attempt is made to unlock them, but rather the mineral is added in a highly available form (read soluble) to meet the needs of the current crop. Of course you would expect much of what is added in available form ends up being locked up and unavailable, so you do the same thing next year and so on. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 --- I work 40 hours per week analyzing food stuffs(for cash flow). That is much longer than I would like. I'm a wanna be sustainable " truck " farmer. Now you're perhaps, telling me I have to analyze the bat guano. Or is there another common sense method to determine it's value? I'd like to get out of the lab(minimize analyses). I found guano from Missouri which has an ok analysis according to the seller. I was thinking it would be great for vegetables/fruits and I could fertilize and plant soon(this spring) rather than analyzing and composting another 3 or 4 years prior to getting the soil amended to yield vegies, much less yield nutrient dense vegies. I guess at this point I'll just risk another growing season and try some with guano and some without. And of course there's weeds(good news is we eat some of them). Thanks Chi. Dennis In , " soilfertility <ynos@c...> " <ynos@c...> wrote: > > > --- Why is bat guano considered an excellent soil amendment? > > Or do you consider it excellent? > > It depends on how healthy the bat population was, what the bats ate > and the local soil fertility conditions that created the food the > bats ate. I will certainly say that unlike humans, when it comes to > nutrition, bats aren't stupid. So I would expect bat guano to always > be better fertilizer than human manure in any given area. > > Farmers in the USA once used sea bird guano from South America. When > the local governments realized how superior it was to commercial > fertilizer, they prohibited its export. The farmers in the USA were > forced to use commercial fertilizer that was not as good. (More > information from Albrecht via " The Albrecht Papers " .) > Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 > Now you're perhaps, telling me I have to analyze the bat guano. > Or is there another common sense method to determine it's value? Hi Dennis: When it comes to soil fertility or food, I don't depend on any analysis from a laboratory. The best way to judge soil fertility, in my opinion, it to look at the health of the plants growing there. Are they disease free and are they attacked by insects? Do they look healthy? If you have different sources of bat guano available, the best common sense method to determine its value, as far as I am concerned, is to compost some small samples and run a variety of tests from small short run tests in pots or trays indoors, to bigger tests outside in the garden. I think one excellent test would be to grow sprouts in soil with the composted guanos. Don't worry about the size of the crop as it may not indicate the true nutritional value. Find an expert on nutrition (that's any dumb creature other than the dumbest creature when it comes to nurtition) and offer the sprouts in a free choice situation. Then choose the guano that was in the soil that grew the sprouts that the expert on nutrition (so- called dumb animal) chose. That experiment should be done in 7 days or less after the guano is composted. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 This is one of my favorite topics! Some other great books on weeds include: 'weeds and what they tell' (author?) biodynamic research institute 'weeds, guardians of the soil', J coccanoeur (? spelling?) 'secrets of the soil' peter tomkins & christopher bird If you've read 'Biological Transmutations' by Louis Kevran, it would explain why weeds have the ability to regenerate lost soil nutrients, at least in part. Chris _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hi Chi: > I was pointing out if you compost organic vegetative matter that was > grown somewhere else, you are trying to improve your soil fertility > by reducing the soil fertility somewhere else and the value as > fertilizer of the organic vegetative matter you are composting > depends on the soil fertility in which that vegetative matter was > originally grown. Thus, composting organic vegetative matter grown > in high soil fertility will be much better for your garden than > composting organic vegetative matter that was originally grown in > low soil fertility. ### Yes, I agree. > The experiment with the cat dung showed that dwarf beans grown in > the pens that had housed cats that were fed 2/3 raw milk and 1/3 raw > meat reverted to pole beans, while the dwarf beans grown in the pens > that had housed cats that were fed 2/3 cooked milk of various types > and 1/3 raw meat grew as dwarf beans. Interestingly, the seeds were > all beans of the dwarf variety, so the genetic defect (dwarfism) was > corrected in the current generation that had the defective gene, it > didn't require a second generation in the good cat dung soil to fix > it. It seems to me this is the way genetic defects should be > corrected, not by some bozo genetic engineer. ### Ha! I AGREE. Not to mention we've already seen glimpses of the horrors that they've commited such as in gene therapy experiments, etc. It's surprising to me > that anyone I have heard talk about the Cat Experiment never > mentions the dwarf bean experiment or its significance. Boggle. > You are right about minerals going to the oceans, but nobody needs > to dump them there, it's a natural process of nature. ### This is one reason why I think it's really important for us to consume seafoods--animal and plant. Also, when a > farmer mines his soil of minerals to grow crops he depletes the > minerals in his soil. People eat the food and where does the human > waste go? Back to the farmer's field? ### Yes, good point. More people should be growing some of their own food for this reason. Farmer's of 40 Centuries describes peoples such as in China who meticulously made sure *everything* went back into the soil. Human excrement included. The Hunzas were documented to do the same. Of course a great many people are on drugs--chemos and hormone replacements, etc.--that the soil would have to work harder to be healthy. > I wouldn't worry about shipping food around the world having any > effect on changing soil fertility around the world. Food is grown > for quantity, not nutritional quality. Food of low nutritional value > places little demand on the minerals in the soil fertility, it just > needs the wind the rain and the sunshine. ### This is also true especially regarding crops. I was primarily thinking about the livestock such as the grass fed New Zealand meat coming all the way to the US. I'm under the impression that these are healthy animals which were feeding on quality soil, so they would be possibly redistributing significant amounts of minerals. > The problem with most soils is not a lack of minerals, but rather a > lack of mineral availability in the soil. ### Yes! I agree again. My husband and I were discussing this and the importance of making the minerals available. This is where I think the confusion comes in. People discuss erosion and losing top soil, etc. but don't seem to realize that there is the potential to rejuvenate the soil. Instead of trying to help the soil by encouraging microoganisms, people tend to just artificially *fortify* the soil. It's like taking a vitamin/mineral supplement--it may not be in a usable form. You can't just stick a penny in the soil and expect the plant to pick up all the copper. Putting chemicals into the soil is like putting drugs into the human body. It disturbs the natural function and causes disease and/or weaknesses. I know I have yet a lot to learn, but what I've learned so far just amazes me, and I realize there has to be a God. There's so much they don't teach you in regular schools. (At least not any school I've ever been to.) Modern agricultural > practices are making minerals in the soil less available. The term > to describe it is that the minerals are " locked up " . When minerals > are locked up, usually no attempt is made to unlock them, but rather > the mineral is added in a highly available form (read soluble) to > meet the needs of the current crop. Of course you would expect much > of what is added in available form ends up being locked up and > unavailable, so you do the same thing next year and so on. > ### You apparently have studied this area more than I have. What suggestions do you have to unlock the minerals? Also, just because a plant is a hybrid doesn't necessarily mean that it *had* to have been grown on poor soil, but that it *can* grow in poor soil, right? And, just to be fair with the organic farmers on this list who care about the quality of their produce, I have recovered from a life-threatening disease on the organic produce I purchased from these farmers. There is significant nutritional value although it may not be like in the olden days. (And I didn't take supplements.) Thank you!!! Please keep up the good work! Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 --- In , " Marla " <talithakumi@e...> wrote: > ### This is also true especially regarding crops. I was > primarily thinking about the livestock such as the grass > fed New Zealand meat coming all the way to the US. I'm > under the impression that these are healthy animals which were > feeding on quality soil, so they would be possibly redistributing > significant amounts of minerals. Hi Marla: Into the sewers of America, yes. > People discuss erosion and losing top soil, etc. but > don't seem to realize that there is the potential to > rejuvenate the soil. Erosion is not caused by wind or rain, it is caused by low soil fertility. Many " conservation " organizations claim that they want to " preserve " what is left. I haven't met one group that wants to restore what has been ruined. Boy scouts may plant trees in an old corn field where no trees are growing. They miss the message that if no trees are growing in that corn field then maybe it's not a good place to plant trees, unless you like to torture trees. > There's so much they don't teach you in regular > schools. (At least not any school I've ever been to.) Apparently teaching the truth in America is considered bad for business in America and bad for government control over the people. > ### You apparently have studied this area more than I have. > What suggestions do you have to unlock the minerals? If you send me a private e-mail, I will tell you what I am involved in investigating to improve soil fertility for nutrition, including making minerals in short supply more available and locking up some of the minerals in excess. > Also, just because a plant is a hybrid doesn't necessarily > mean that it *had* to have been grown on poor soil, but that > it *can* grow in poor soil, right? Yes, you are right. Understand, however, the potential of the hybrid to produce nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open pollinated in the same soil. The hybrid is genetically engineered (but not a GMO which is cross species) to increase yield at the expense of nutrition and to be easier to grow in depleted soils. If a farmer says he is interested in nutrtion and at the same time, says he grows hybrids, I just laugh out loud and walk away. > And, just to be fair with the organic farmers on this list who > care about the quality of their produce, I have recovered > from a life-threatening disease on the organic produce I > purchased from these farmers. There is significant nutritional > value although it may not be like in the olden days. That's great that you recovered from a life-threating disease, but of course it only meant the food you ate had sufficient nutrition for you to recover from this disease, it didn't mean that the food was comparable to the food the isolated populations Price found ate. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Thanks, Chris. Look forward to getting a hold of some of these titles. Marla > > > This is one of my favorite topics! > Some other great books on weeds include: > 'weeds and what they tell' (author?) biodynamic research institute > 'weeds, guardians of the soil', J coccanoeur (? spelling?) > 'secrets of the soil' peter tomkins & christopher bird > > If you've read 'Biological Transmutations' by Louis Kevran, it would explain > why weeds have the ability to regenerate lost soil nutrients, at least in > part. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hi Chi: I just had another thought. What do you think about hydroponics and the nutritional quality of thoses vegetables? Some people who don't have yards could possibly grow plants hydroponically. > > > Also, just because a plant is a hybrid doesn't necessarily > > mean that it *had* to have been grown on poor soil, but that > > it *can* grow in poor soil, right? > > Yes, you are right. Understand, however, the potential of the hybrid > to produce nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open > pollinated in the same soil. The hybrid is genetically engineered > (but not a GMO which is cross species) to increase yield at the > expense of nutrition and to be easier to grow in depleted soils. If > a farmer says he is interested in nutrtion and at the same time, > says he grows hybrids, I just laugh out loud and walk away. > ### What about things like nappa cabbage and daikon. Aren't those hybrids? I've been fermenting those because I like them, maybe I should starting pickling other vegetables instead? Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Marla- >I just had another thought. What do you think about hydroponics and the >nutritional quality of thoses vegetables? Some people who don't have yards >could possibly grow plants hydroponically. Hydroponics is a plague. Avoid hydroponics and hydroponically-produced food at all costs. There's no healthy soil ecology in hydroponics, just a lot of chemical plant food, so there's simply no potential for real nutrition at all. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 My inderstanding of plants roots is that the water feeding roots operate 24 hours a day, while those that uptake nutrients only operate when the sun is up. Therefore, the problem with NPK and other water solouble nutrients is that the plant is forced to uptake thses 'nutrients' when it cannot metabolize them, and they are stored within the plant tissue, which are then harmful to our health. I would not eat any hodroponic produce! ciao, chris >From: Idol <Idol@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Re: Weeds >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:24:36 -0500 > >Marla- > > >I just had another thought. What do you think about hydroponics and the > >nutritional quality of thoses vegetables? Some people who don't have >yards > >could possibly grow plants hydroponically. > >Hydroponics is a plague. Avoid hydroponics and hydroponically-produced >food at all costs. There's no healthy soil ecology in hydroponics, just a >lot of chemical plant food, so there's simply no potential for real >nutrition at all. > > > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Oh, yikes. Okay. I thought it was a bit unnatural, but haven't had much chance to really look into it. Thanks, Marla > > Hydroponics is a plague. Avoid hydroponics and hydroponically-produced > food at all costs. There's no healthy soil ecology in hydroponics, just a > lot of chemical plant food, so there's simply no potential for real > nutrition at all. > > > > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 --- In , " Marla " <talithakumi@e...> wrote: > Hi Chi: > I just had another thought. What do you think about > hydroponics and the nutritional quality of thoses vegetables? > Some people who don't have yards could possibly grow > plants hydroponically. Hi Marla: Albrecht (who else) explains that minerals in the nutrient solution required for hydroponics can not be in a high enough concentration to meet the plant's needs without being toxic to the plant. The clay and soil colloid can hold these minerals in a much higher concentration without being toxic to the plant. Thus the nutritient solution must be dilute enough to avoid being toxic to the plant so that it does not allow the plant to reach its full nutritional potential. So hydroponic = malnutrition (With one exception I would like investigated, a different soilless medium to plant in.) Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Chi- >(With one exception I would like >investigated, a different soilless medium to plant in.) What exception is that? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 > > Now you're perhaps, telling me I have to analyze the bat guano. > > Or is there another common sense method to determine it's value? > > Hi Dennis: > When it comes to soil fertility or food, I don't depend on any > analysis from a laboratory. The best way to judge soil fertility, in > my opinion, it to look at the health of the plants growing there. > Are they disease free and are they attacked by insects? Do they look > healthy? > If you have different sources of bat guano available, the best > common sense method to determine its value, as far as I am > concerned, is to compost some small samples and run a variety of > tests from small short run tests in pots or trays indoors, to bigger > tests outside in the garden. I think one excellent test would be to > grow sprouts in soil with the composted guanos. Chi:How do you define guano compost? The stuff I located is already composted(has been in the cave for a very long time). The owner said the stuff is the consistency of talcum powder after it is sifted on 1/8th inch screen. Don't you think I could mix this with my soil at recommended rates and start the sprouts soon after? Don't worry about > the size of the crop as it may not indicate the true nutritional > value. Find an expert on nutrition (that's any dumb creature other > than the dumbest creature when it comes to nurtition) and offer the > sprouts in a free choice situation. Then choose the guano that was > in the soil that grew the sprouts that the expert on nutrition (so- > called dumb animal) chose. Chi: I don't quite understand this part. First of all my animals prefer what I grow on our land to anything brought from elsewhere, every time I've had to bring feed in(from elsewhere). But you say that my crops may not be healthy cause my land is not necessarily " healthy " . My milk cow, chickens, ducks and pigs all prefer sprouted wheat and/or milo(some sprouted) grown on our land to other feeds I've given them occasionally. The other feeds came from an unknown factory or another local farmer. The chickens eat about anything so I'd consider them the dumbest creature and would not use them for the test. The milk cow is perhaps the pickiest diner. So she will be awarded the tester position.. BTW all our animals look and are apparently healthy. What I'm saying is, " our soil is healthy by your test " . I have had some success hatching our chicken eggs and they were eating feed grown on our farm whether it be grains, sprouts, milk, yogurt,whey, ensilage,alfalfa or weeds. And I understand eggs don't hatch too well unless " things " are as they should be. That experiment should be done in 7 days > or less after the guano is composted. Chi: Again, I'm wondering what the composting procedure is? Thank you. Dennis > Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 --- In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote: > Chi- > > >(With one exception I would like > >investigated, a different soilless medium to plant in.) > > What exception is that? Hi : If it's something you would like to investigate, send me a private e- mail and I will explain it to you. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 > > ### You apparently have studied this area more than I have. > > What suggestions do you have to unlock the minerals? > > If you send me a private e-mail, I will tell you what I am involved > in investigating to improve soil fertility for nutrition, including > making minerals in short supply more available and locking up some > of the minerals in excess. I'd be interested in hearing what you have been doing. Kris.@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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