play attention

February 15, 2006

Does anyone on the list know much about “Play Attention”. I’ve had a Mom just

contact me about working with her son, who did “Play Attention” for months, and

in her words “he hated every minute of it”.

All I can tell from the website is that there’s a helmet and sensors,

and a lot of references to NASA. Anyone

know where the sensors are? What kinds

of settings, and can they be changed easily?

If this modality did nothing to help, what are the chances that NFB

will. Of course, I suggested that we at

least get an assessment, which might be very revealing as to why this young man

either has or appears to have ADHD.

Then there’s always the chance the parents were using the device incorrectly ????

Thanks for any information/thoughts

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February 15, 2006

~

I don't know much but I have heard that Play Attention only has 1 placement and that is C3 C4 G and it only trains SMR. I am not sure if you can even change the frequency to adjust for ones age.

~

RE: Play Attention

Does anyone on the list know much about “Play Attention”. I’ve had a Mom just contact me about working with her son, who did “Play Attention” for months, and in her words “he hated every minute of it”. All I can tell from the website is that there’s a helmet and sensors, and a lot of references to NASA. Anyone know where the sensors are? What kinds of settings, and can they be changed easily?

If this modality did nothing to help, what are the chances that NFB will. Of course, I suggested that we at least get an assessment, which might be very revealing as to why this young man either has or appears to have ADHD.

Then there’s always the chance the parents were using the device incorrectly ????

Thanks for any information/thoughts

--No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.8/260 - Release Date: 2/14/2006

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February 15, 2006

I use/used Play Attention in a nonprofit learning center - I do/did the intake and progress assessments with a Cz qEEG and IVA, supervise the program, and train coaches, etc.

First, ensure that the reference is clearly to Play Attention. There were a couple of rip-offs who sounded similar and made a lot of noise.

Second, Play Attention is a great tool when used for what it is made to do. It is primarily aimed at ADD but can help in many situations where theta down and/or SMR up can help - e.g. autism, ADD. It has seven (?) games, each addressing a specific component of attention. A great plus of the program is the intensive coaching program which goes along with the games. They keep the kid on track by watching eyes, body, etc. The games get boring (as will any game) by design - it's part of the training. This is where the coaching can make a difference. The Play Attention support program/people are great and know their stuff.

It's not for everyone nor for every situation - like any tool, when used appropriately, it does a good job. It is a good home training package. I have often referred to it as Neurofeedback Lite. I have no problem recommending it.//Peder

Peder H. Fagerholm, PhD

2947 Owens Point Trail

Kennesaw, GA 30152

770-974-5610

Attention Development ProgramsNeurofeedback & Applied Psychophysiology2947 Owens Point TrailKennesaw, GA 30152

Associate Professor - Graduate Studies (adjunct)Central Michigan UniversityMetro Atlanta CampusAtlanta, GA 30339

Assistant Professor - Aviation Science (adjunct)Embry Riddle Aeronautical UniversityAtlanta Extended Campus Marietta, GA 30060

770-426-9990

February 15, 2006

When I checked, the cost was for a local region and it was $10,000!

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-------------- Original message -------------- From: Van Deusen <pvdtlc@...> > , > > Play Attention is to neurofeedback as a saw is to a scalpel. Nice tool for > certain jobs but limited in its range. It trains everyone in the same place and > the same frequencies with no ability for the user (unless guided by a > "clinician" who purchased an even more expensive unit) to change anything--but > at least it's significantly more costly than a decent amp and software. > > Always makes you a bit nervous when they start talking about "flexible easy > payment plans" and the fact that it's tax deductible and that you can get > government help to buy it--then you can NOT find out on the website what the > heck it costs! > > Pete > > wrote: > Does anyone on the list know much about “Play Attention”. I’ve had a Mom just > contact me about working with her son, who did “Play Attention” for months, and > in her words “he hated every minute of it”. All I can tell from the website is > that there’s a helmet and sensors, and a lot of references to NASA. Anyone know > where the sensors are? What kinds of settings, and can they be changed easily? > If this modality did nothing to help, what are the chances that NFB will. Of > course, I suggested that we at least get an assessment, which might be very > revealing as to why this young man either has or appears to have ADHD. > > > > > >

February 15, 2006

:

That does not sound like Play Attention by Unique Logic, Inc. (

Freer and Gwen Sorley) That price and the term " region " sounds like Smart

Games or another unnamed venture capital group with a similar name which

are using some of the same NASA research that Freer used - they

were more interested in selling territories and hardware than in doing

good neurofeedback. I am not aware of any such pricing or geographics at

Play Attention. I will check with them when they make an upcoming

presentation in Atlanta on March 16 or earlier if I get the time.

FYI, I have an unlimited license clinical version of PA for under

$2500.00 if I remember the price correctly.

Like I said in a previous posting, make sure it's the trade marked,

registered Play Attention by Unique Logic, Inc. - /Peder

February 16, 2006

Thanks, Peder, for giving your observations on Play Attention. We have also had good experience with it at our office. It is also ever so easy to use, so it makes a great machine to rent out for home use. the helmet uses sponges at CZ and M1/M2 that one wets with saline. It is indeed only an SMR up/theta down setting, but the baseline which is done at the start of each session sets the settings for that person on that day so it is not a one size fits all. It has it's limitations in that it can't be used for a variety of montages like other neurofeedback software. Sometimes, we find simplicity best as this machine verbally tells the person using it if they are not focusing or making errrors in the games, and even reminds you if the sponges are not wet. We find many families intimidated by going home with leads and paste.

The down side is that many families fall into the trap of not supervising/coaching the child (or adults can use it too). They sit with them one session and then after that decide this it taking too much time and expect the ADD child to run the session by themselves. Then they call me after doing only three sessions in a month and tell me that the child is bored and doesn't want to do it. With proper coaching we've had good success. There are now eight interactive games and while anyone will be bored after awhile, they are most interesting than more games that I've seen on other software.

As for the licence, they do sell a license for $10,000 to those who want to set up a Play Attention Center. This would be a large operation with many Play Attention units and coaches with Play Attention helping with the advertising and training the staff. I don't have this license and don't see that the market in my area would warrant this. We also have the professional units, like Peder. This has been sufficient of us. We mostly use it to supplement the other neurofeedback training that we do. The home unit can hold two client records at once and the pro unit can hold up to twenty five at a time. Depending on your needs, the home unit may be all you'd want.

Gwen Sorley and Freer are quite lovely and competent people. They have good research on success using this in schools. They are easy to talk to and would be happy to answer questions if you will call them or see when they will be in your area for a demo.

, your thoughts on doing a TLC asssessment on this child who hated it or other testing would be a good idea. I think this is always a good thing to do. You may find that other needs are present.

Re: Play Attention

:That does not sound like Play Attention by Unique Logic, Inc. (Freer and Gwen Sorley) That price and the term "region" sounds like SmartGames or another unnamed venture capital group with a similar name whichare using some of the same NASA research that Freer used - theywere more interested in selling territories and hardware than in doinggood neurofeedback. I am not aware of any such pricing or geographics atPlay Attention. I will check with them when they make an upcomingpresentation in Atlanta on March 16 or earlier if I get the time. FYI, I have an unlimited license clinical version of PA for under$2500.00 if I remember the price correctly.Like I said in a previous posting, make sure it's the trade marked,registered Play Attention by Unique Logic, Inc. - /Peder

February 16, 2006

Thanks to all of you for your feedback on Play Attention. After talking more with the Mom, turns out this child reported that "his brain felt like it was on fire" after using it. So it turns out it wasn't boredom that the young man was reporting, but actual discomfort. We all know that rewarding standard 12-15 may indeed not be the right choice (reference - the sweet spot which so many practitioners talk of hitting after testing many frequencies. I remember my first experience in the Othmer's class, 12-15 made me grit my teeth, but 10-13 gave me the "clear windshield" and calmed my low-back pain.

To me that only says, with all the good intentions in the world, and good concepts, one size will never fit all. I also remember my first trial of blood pressure medicine which almost left me unconscious in a food store parking lot. That definitely wasn't the right formula for me.

Thanks again, and I'm happy that there are those who have benefitted from this modality!

February 16, 2006

,

I have some experience with Play Attention but it has been a while and I

may confuse it a bit with the Attention Trainer (now out of business). I

recall that it was one channel with sensor placement between Fz and Cz. It

trains both SMR reward and Theta inhibit. I think you may be able to tweak

the frequencies a bit. My 8YO son got bored with it also, but he is ADHD

and gets bored with everything (including the best of video games).

Because of it's limitations I wouldn't let it discourage you from working

that Mom's son. My son had over 120 sessions with the Attention Trainer

unit (similar to Play Attention) but I saw little improvement in his

symptoms. When I trialed him on the Play Attention unit a while back he

scored pretty well. I believe I have succeeded in raising my son's SMR but

still need to find the other areas that need to be addressed. You can

check out more at PlayAttention.com.

Tim Fishel

Message: 23

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:08:12 -0500

From: " Duncan " <karenduncan@...>

Subject: Re: RE: Play Attention

~

I don't know much but I have heard that Play Attention only has 1 placement

and that is C3 C4 G and it only trains SMR. I am not sure if you can even

change the frequency to adjust for ones age.

~

RE: Play Attention

Does anyone on the list know much about " Play Attention " . I've had a Mom

just contact me about working with her son, who did " Play Attention " for

months, and in her words " he hated every minute of it " . All I can tell

from the website is that there's a helmet and sensors, and a lot of

references to NASA. Anyone know where the sensors are? What kinds of

settings, and can they be changed easily?

If this modality did nothing to help, what are the chances that NFB will.

Of course, I suggested that we at least get an assessment, which might be

very revealing as to why this young man either has or appears to have ADHD.

Then there's always the chance the parents were using the device

incorrectly ????

Thanks for any information/thoughts

February 16, 2006

What do you think about play attention's approach of training under

task. Does training during video game tasks yield different or

better results than Bioexplorer's " still " type training?

Does anyone know what NASA found about the difference?

>

> I use/used Play Attention in a nonprofit learning center - I

do/did the

> intake and progress assessments with a Cz qEEG and IVA, supervise

the

> program, and train coaches, etc.

>

> First, ensure that the reference is clearly to Play Attention.

There were

> a couple of rip-offs who sounded similar and made a lot of noise.

>

> Second, Play Attention is a great tool when used for what it is

made to

> do. It is primarily aimed at ADD but can help in many situations

where

> theta down and/or SMR up can help - e.g. autism, ADD. It has seven

(?)

> games, each addressing a specific component of attention. A great

plus of

> the program is the intensive coaching program which goes along

with the

> games. They keep the kid on track by watching eyes, body, etc. The

games

> get boring (as will any game) by design - it's part of the

training. This

> is where the coaching can make a difference. The Play Attention

support

> program/people are great and know their stuff.

>

> It's not for everyone nor for every situation - like any tool,

when used

> appropriately, it does a good job. It is a good home training

package. I

> have often referred to it as Neurofeedback Lite. I have no problem

> recommending it.//Peder

>

> Peder H. Fagerholm, PhD

> 2947 Owens Point Trail

> Kennesaw, GA 30152

> 770-974-5610

>

> Attention Development Programs

> Neurofeedback & Applied Psychophysiology

> 2947 Owens Point Trail

> Kennesaw, GA 30152

>

> Associate Professor - Graduate Studies (adjunct)

> Central Michigan University

> Metro Atlanta Campus

> Atlanta, GA 30339

>

> Assistant Professor - Aviation Science (adjunct)

> Embry Riddle Aeronautical University

> Atlanta Extended Campus

> Marietta, GA 30060

> 770-426-9990

>

February 17, 2006

Here is an article comparing video game EEG to regular EEG NF, which is not

with the Bioexplorer - but more boring, older technology. Bioexplorer can

create more interesting designs, especially like Inner Tube and Particle

Editor which is much more sophisticated feedback.

NASA and Eastern Virginia Medical School conducted a research study to

determine the effectiveness of video game EEG Neurofeedback on ADHD.

Published in the Berkeley Medical Journal

Play Attention!

Can custom-made video games help kids with attention deficit disorder?

By Gordon Kwan

For children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), life can

feel like a never-ending video game. They are wired--restless, impulsive,

and easily distracted. Their minds are constantly bombarded with different

elements of reality that compete for their attention.

So far, the most popular treatment for ADHD has been Ritalin, a rapid-acting

stimulant for adults that has the opposite effect in children, calming the

jitters associated with the disorder. According to the National Institute of

Mental Health, about three percent of American school children take

stimulants like Ritalin regularly. However current research suggests a

surprising new strategy for treating this disorder: video games linked to

brain-wave biofeedback that can help kids with ADHD train their minds to

tune in and settle down.

It is difficult for a child with ADHD to learn how to self-regulate and know

what it feels like to concentrate. Biofeedback teaches patients to control

normally involuntary body functions such as heart rate by providing

real-time monitoring of such responses. More than 15 years of studies show

that with the aid of a computer display and an EEG sensor attached to the

scalp, ADHD patients can learn to modulate brain waves associated with

focusing. Increasing the strength of high-frequency beta waves and

decreasing the strength of low-frequency theta waves, for example, creates a

more attentive state of mind. With enough training, changes become automatic

and lead to improvements in grades, sociability, and organizational skills.

Despite its proven success, the technique has not become a mainstream

treatment for several good reasons. First, unlike drug therapy, which can

have immediate results, a typical course of biofeedback treatment takes a

series of about 40 one-hour sessions over a span of several months before

benefits become apparent. Second, it is more expensive than drugs. Costs

range from $3,000 to $4,000 for these treatments, so insurance companies

tend to pick the less expensive option. Finally, biofeedback training

requires the very kind of prolonged concentration that patients with ADHD

struggle to attain.

Alan Pope, a behavioral scientist at NASA Langley Research Center in

Hampton, Virginia, came up with a more engaging approach through work with

NASA flight simulators. He was determining the degree of interaction with

cockpit controls necessary to help pilots stay attentive during routine

flights. In an experiment, he linked the level of automation in the cockpit

to the pilots' brain-wave signals, so that some controls switched from

autopilot to manual when the pilot started to lose focus. He found that with

practice the pilots could begin to adjust the controls to the level of

automation that felt most comfortable by regulating their own brain waves.

Pope applied his findings to help ADHD patients stay focused by rewarding an

attentive state of mind. He realized, however, that the simple displays that

were already part of biofeedback treatment may not be enough to hold the

interest of restless youngsters. He then chose several common video games

and linked the biofeedback signal from the player's brain waves to the

handheld controller that guides the games' actions. " In one auto-racing

game, a car's maximum speed increases if the player's ratio of beta to theta

waves improves. The same sort of feedback also controls the steering, " Pope

says.

In the test, six Sony PlayStation games were used with 22 boys and girls

between the ages of nine and thirteen who had ADHD. Half the group received

traditional biofeedback training; the other half played the modified video

games. After 40 one-hour sessions, both groups showed substantial

improvements in everyday brain-wave patterns as well as in tests of

measuring attention span, impulsiveness, and hyperactivity. Parents in both

groups also reported that their children were doing better in school.

The difference between the two groups was motivation. " In the video-game

group, there were fewer no-shows and no dropouts, " according to Pope. The

parents were more satisfied with the results of the training, and the kids

seemed to have more fun.

Since children are more motivated toward video-game biofeedback and may

already be familiar with video games, they will not need one-on-one coaching

to master the technique. As a result, the cost of the treatment should be

reduced and maybe even permit " do-it-yourself " biofeedback. One North

Carolina company markets their system as a fun bike helmet and game-like

video exercises that work on almost any computer. The helmet is lined with

sensors that monitor the child's brain waves, and the child actually

controls the computer video exercises by mind alone. Parents should not

expect regular video games to help their children. The wrong kinds of video

games might actually hurt children with attention disorders.

Parents, however, may be hesitant to switch from traditional treatment

programs. One parent whose child currently takes drugs to control ADHD says,

" Our son is using drugs to control his attention problems and although we

don't like giving him the pills, he is no longer causing problems at school.

We try to keep our son away from things that might make him hyperactive.

Unless our doctor tells us to do this brain wave training in a hospital, we

are not going to buy a machine to do our own treatment at home. "

Brain-wave biofeedback alone may not be a substitute for drug therapy.

Professor Hinshaw, an expert in the field of child clinical

psychology at UC Berkeley, gives a reserved opinion about biofeedback

treatment. " Biofeedback is a promising potential alternative, but

unfortunately the kinds of really well-controlled studies that might support

its clinical benefits have yet to be performed. " The two treatments have

complementary aspects that make them effective as adjuncts. A single dose of

Ritalin, for example, acts quickly but only for a few hours, and most

patients take it only on school days. Brain-wave regulation takes a long

time to learn but has the potential for longer-lasting effects.

Researchers and clinicians are realizing that ADHD is not easily outgrown.

Most doctors support an approach that combines good nutrition, sleep,

exercise, and learning strategies as well as biofeedback and drug therapy.

The possibilities for brain-wave biofeedback are very promising since its

benefits could last a lifetime. Video game biofeedback therapy may provide a

more tolerable and long-lasting form of treatment for children through a

medium they are more likely to enjoy.

February 17, 2006

I think training under task is a great approach for at least part of a

session--especially after the client begins to get some sense of the feedback.

We were doing that in 1991 and found it very useful. Kirtley Thornton does it

all the time with his learning disability trainings. BioExplorer doesn't have

any limitation that would keep you from doing same (in fact, when you do an

assessment, you do at least one minute under task at each site pair.)

I'm not sure what NASA's involvement with the Play Attention. I guess one or

both of the folks who developed it had some NASA background, and I believe NASA

used NF with astronauts at least at one time.

Pete

>

> From: " gskohner1 " <gskohner@...>

> Date: 2006/02/16 Thu PM 07:50:36 EST

>

> Subject: Re: Play Attention

>

> What do you think about play attention's approach of training under

task. Does training during video game tasks yield different or

better results than Bioexplorer's " still " type training?

Does anyone know what NASA found about the difference?

February 17, 2006

Hi group,

(Sorry for the long post – I do have a few questions at the end)

I am researching home training options for my 8 yr old son who is

diagnosed ADHD non attentive, and myself (similar symptoms, but not

diagnosed). I leased a PlayAttention unit last fall. After about 8 weeks

and approx 10 hours of training for my son, I returned it because I was

unconvinced that the technology itself was doing much. I have a few

questions that perhaps some folks who have clinical experience with this

system can help with.

When using the system, tapping feet or other fidgeting would

significantly raise the raw beta/theta data numbers displayed in the

diagnostics window. Nothing else I tried (eyes open/closed, relaxing,

reading, performing math calculations, repositioning the helmet etc)

seemed to elicit a notable, repeatable response in the data. Despite

repeated attempts at controlled experimentation, I could not establish a

pattern of data change. Perhaps it is my ignorance of how the system was

supposed to work. The PA staff told me that it is not really possible to

“make” yourself enter a daydream state and that I would not be able to

observe a cause/effect relationship. I was asked to just follow the

instructions and all would turn out after 40 hours or so. I tried to

follow the instructions diligently, but the machine response never

seemed to vary according to whether or not my son or I appeared to be

focused on the tasks given (or any task for that matter). To me it all

seemed random.

The scientist in me just expected to see some consistent direction of

change from the baseline when I relaxed verses when I was really focused

on a task, or on the games they provided. I also noted that repeating

the baseline reading two or more times often resulted in a big

difference from one data set to the next, and since the “score” and

“feedback” during the session were based on this as a reference, the

methodology seemed somewhat suspect to me.

I can definately understand how folks would get positive results for an

ADHD child with this system if they follow the instructions and use it

diligently. The system includes a “Simon” like memory recall game, and

another game that works on impulsivity – ie pressing the spacebar for

black asteroids, but not red. These concentration activities, along with

the very structured behavior modification coaching are a large part of

this training. In my mind, these are great strategies that don’t require

an $1800 machine. There is clearly benefit to reduce fidgeting, since

this caused negative feedback from the machine itself (in addition to

the coach’s feedback). I was skeptical that the neurofeedback portion

played a part in the case of someone who sat still.

Obviously there are folks on this list who understand this system and

exactly what the PA NF does. So here (finally) are my questions for them:

Was it unrealistic to expect to manipulate the raw data readings either

up or down by changing what I was doing?

I want to know if using an EEG device along with the BioExplorer SW will

allow me to actually observe a cause/effect relationship between my

activities/thinking and the signal coming from the device?

How likely is it that the PA was simply the wrong protocol for my son?

He didn’t seem to have any improvement, but the training was not long --

about 20 1/2 hr sessions. Although he is definitely distracted when it

comes to routine tasks like getting dressed or finishing schoolwork, he

is a voracious reader and has scored exceptionally high on several

cognitive ability tests at school. I would describe him as a divergent

thinker whose mind just seems to constantly go off on tangents. Getting

from point A to point B is very difficult.

I appreciate any insight you may have as to whether or not my experience

with PA is atypical.

Thanks,

Theresa

February 17, 2006

Theresa

I'm sorry that your experience with PA did not turn out well. Your question as to whether PA was the right tool stood out to me. Does he/you really have ADD? I have serious doubts as to the accuracy of any ADD/HD diagnosis that does not include one or more quantitative measures. If the diagnosis is only by the DSM IV, you may as well go play in rush hour traffic - blind folded.- an observational diagnosis as in the DSM IV is nearly useless in guiding treatment - if you throw enough medications at it (the shotgun approach) eventually something will change. It may not be the root cause, but something will change.

To help me assess a potential PA client, I use a three pronged attack:

1. V.D.'s TLC Issues questionnaire as a subjective measure. BASC or even DSM IV are ok, too, but the TLC has more opportunity to ask about a greater variety of symptoms.

2. IVA CPT as a quantitative measure (80% + accuracy) - TOVA or QuickTest are probably ok too

3. Lubar/Monastra/?? single channel Cz qEEG as a quantitative measure (80%+ accuracy per the research). The qEEG will also usually graphically illustrate whether it's an SMR/theta type problem or if further investigation is necessary.

Hopefully, all three measures agree, or at least don't disagree. If they don't agree, I will look further into possible causes - nutrition, allergies, environment, heredity, bipolar, etc. that PA has less success in addressing.

Based on my experiences with training PA coaches, having an ADD person trying to coach an ADD kid can be very interesting - they tend to feed on each other.

Play Attention helped all of the kids, but helped some kids more than others - significant improvement for 80% of the kids - some help for the other 20%. This is more or less the success rate reported for NFB.

More later/Peder

February 17, 2006

,

I decided to get pocket-neurobics hardware with bioexplorer and trek the NFB

terrain at home on my own. I did over 100 sessions on myself, half of them

playing around with different protocols, and then the other half guided by

Pete's advice. But Pete could not be here to ensure that I was getting a

good connection, that I wasn't rewarding artifact, or even that the original

data was good that the assessment was based on.

I realized after going to a conference, that I was watching the raw data

signal (so I could learn it at the same time) and in doing so, I was just

rolling my eyes in all the eyes open sessions, and was getting almost all

low delta artifact.

Then, after doing it the right way, after about 10 sessions with SMR up -

theta down at Cz, I had significant results. I was taking 80 mgs of

Dexedrine per day and had to wean myself off it over about two weeks because

it was starting to make me speedy.

If you're a scientist, then BioExplorer is great, because you can analyze

the data in any way you want. You don't just see a plane go up, or a fire

burning (but you can have that, too, if you like) you see the almost

real-time effects on the full spectrum of EEG.

kirk

Re: Re: Play Attention

> Hi group,

>

> (Sorry for the long post – I do have a few questions at the end)

>

> I am researching home training options for my 8 yr old son who is

> diagnosed ADHD non attentive, and myself (similar symptoms, but not

> diagnosed). I leased a PlayAttention unit last fall. After about 8 weeks

> and approx 10 hours of training for my son, I returned it because I was

> unconvinced that the technology itself was doing much. I have a few

> questions that perhaps some folks who have clinical experience with this

> system can help with.

>

> When using the system, tapping feet or other fidgeting would

> significantly raise the raw beta/theta data numbers displayed in the

> diagnostics window. Nothing else I tried (eyes open/closed, relaxing,

> reading, performing math calculations, repositioning the helmet etc)

> seemed to elicit a notable, repeatable response in the data. Despite

> repeated attempts at controlled experimentation, I could not establish a

> pattern of data change. Perhaps it is my ignorance of how the system was

> supposed to work. The PA staff told me that it is not really possible to

> “make” yourself enter a daydream state and that I would not be able to

> observe a cause/effect relationship. I was asked to just follow the

> instructions and all would turn out after 40 hours or so. I tried to

> follow the instructions diligently, but the machine response never

> seemed to vary according to whether or not my son or I appeared to be

> focused on the tasks given (or any task for that matter). To me it all

> seemed random.

>

> The scientist in me just expected to see some consistent direction of

> change from the baseline when I relaxed verses when I was really focused

> on a task, or on the games they provided. I also noted that repeating

> the baseline reading two or more times often resulted in a big

> difference from one data set to the next, and since the “score” and

> “feedback” during the session were based on this as a reference, the

> methodology seemed somewhat suspect to me.

>

> I can definately understand how folks would get positive results for an

> ADHD child with this system if they follow the instructions and use it

> diligently. The system includes a “Simon” like memory recall game, and

> another game that works on impulsivity – ie pressing the spacebar for

> black asteroids, but not red. These concentration activities, along with

> the very structured behavior modification coaching are a large part of

> this training. In my mind, these are great strategies that don’t require

> an $1800 machine. There is clearly benefit to reduce fidgeting, since

> this caused negative feedback from the machine itself (in addition to

> the coach’s feedback). I was skeptical that the neurofeedback portion

> played a part in the case of someone who sat still.

>

> Obviously there are folks on this list who understand this system and

> exactly what the PA NF does. So here (finally) are my questions for them:

>

> Was it unrealistic to expect to manipulate the raw data readings either

> up or down by changing what I was doing?

>

> I want to know if using an EEG device along with the BioExplorer SW will

> allow me to actually observe a cause/effect relationship between my

> activities/thinking and the signal coming from the device?

>

> How likely is it that the PA was simply the wrong protocol for my son?

> He didn’t seem to have any improvement, but the training was not long --

> about 20 1/2 hr sessions. Although he is definitely distracted when it

> comes to routine tasks like getting dressed or finishing schoolwork, he

> is a voracious reader and has scored exceptionally high on several

> cognitive ability tests at school. I would describe him as a divergent

> thinker whose mind just seems to constantly go off on tangents. Getting

> from point A to point B is very difficult.

>

> I appreciate any insight you may have as to whether or not my experience

> with PA is atypical.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Theresa

>

February 17, 2006

For $10K they will make you a dealer and you can help them sell their

products.

Jim

Play Attention

,

Play Attention is to neurofeedback as a saw is to a scalpel. Nice tool for

certain jobs but limited in its range. It trains everyone in the same place

and the same frequencies with no ability for the user (unless guided by a

" clinician " who purchased an even more expensive unit) to change

anything--but at least it's significantly more costly than a decent amp and

software.

Always makes you a bit nervous when they start talking about " flexible easy

payment plans " and the fact that it's tax deductible and that you can get

government help to buy it--then you can NOT find out on the website what the

heck it costs!

Pete

wrote:

Does anyone on the list know much about “Play Attention”. I’ve had a Mom

just contact me about working with her son, who did “Play Attention” for

months, and in her words “he hated every minute of it”. All I can tell from

the website is that there’s a helmet and sensors, and a lot of references to

NASA. Anyone know where the sensors are? What kinds of settings, and can

they be changed easily?

If this modality did nothing to help, what are the chances that NFB will. Of

course, I suggested that we at least get an assessment, which might be very

revealing as to why this young man either has or appears to have ADHD.

February 18, 2006

Peder,

Do you have the reference for this "3. Lubar/Monastra/?? single channel Cz qEEG as a quantitative measure (80%+ accuracy per the research). The qEEG will also usually graphically illustrate whether it's an SMR/theta type problem or if further investigation is necessary. "?

If so please send it in.

Thanks,

Rosemary