Supplements

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I take ra spes and arthro 7. My Tues. order for MSM came in today.

I, too, am unsure if I should take all of these together. I take

aspirin and vitamin E 800mg so I wonder about the bleeding issue and the

herbs in spes mixing with the herbs in the MSM. Arthro 7 has curcumin

and bromelain; in addition to collagen, vit C, lipase and I've been

taking those two for several weeks.

I've been thinking of faxing Gero Vita in Marina del Rey.

NC

[Guest guest]

Kellis & O'Connor wrote:

>

> From: " Kellis & O'Connor " <docsol@...>

>

> Hi,

> I take ra spes and arthro 7. My Tues. order for MSM came in today.

> I, too, am unsure if I should take all of these together. I take

> aspirin and vitamin E 800mg so I wonder about the bleeding issue and the

> herbs in spes mixing with the herbs in the MSM. Arthro 7 has curcumin

> and bromelain; in addition to collagen, vit C, lipase and I've been

> taking those two for several weeks.

> I've been thinking of faxing Gero Vita in Marina del Rey.

>

> NC

Might want to contact Botanic Labs re: the ra spes. I think they have an

email there that might be able to answer your questions, maybe something

onthe joint question earlier too?

http://www.botaniclab.com/product.htm

--

Geoff Crenshaw -----------------------

Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

[Guest guest]

What does it say about taking it with an immune disease condition? I am

sure reading labels these days. Also,Gloria, I take the evening primrose

AND flax seed oil so who knows which helps the most? Sorry!

Gloria M Tate wrote:

> Hi,

> Has anyone tried Evening Primrose oil? It is similar to Flaxseed oil

> and borage oil.

> I always heard that it is good for inflammation. I got some so I will

> let you know, but it is hard because I began that and Biaxin at the same

> time. I also started Glutamine

> powder. it boosts glutathione in your blood and is very good for the

> immune system

> and is a super antioxidant. Does anyone know anything about these

> things? I have a bood called *Stop Aging Now* by jean Carper. It says

> that glutamine is an essential nutrient for anyone who is ill or under

> stress. This book is interesting because it tells how much of each

> nutrient or supplement you might need to take and why. It also tells

> what various doctors and researchers in the field of aging and illness

> and other fields take every day.

> Gloria

> ________________________________________________________________

> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!

> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!

> Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.

> 1/4634/0/_/532797/_/959543946/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

, I am battling loss of good flora in the gut at this moment and both

Adlard (whose daughter battled this) and Ethel Snooks have been walking

me through this. Needless to say I am waaaaay better now but not all back to

normal yet. I cut down on my grapefruit seed extract and the colloidal silver -

will rotate those weekly - and picked up l-gleutamine and olive leaf extract. I

also increased my aloevera juice. Something is definitely working for me so can

say, do as THEY say do and not as I say, go and get that stuff! As far as your

question, is it worth the money? ANY amount was worth coming out of that kind

of situational discomfort and pain. I lost five lbs. (of which I need to lose

another 15 LBs.) but I sure don't want to lose it that way. Hope this week

between holidays is going well for you. How I wish we could all have a whopping

New Year's Celebration together. Maybe someday when we are ALL well, we can all

meet somewhere for this fantastic AP celebration of victory. Love,

O'Connor wrote:

> Has anyone tried both olive leaf and oil of oregano. Not at the same

> time:-) If so, which was better?

> I was talking with a man where I order some of my supplements. He and

> his wife are chiropractors and she has RA. She has bad reactions and cannot

> take antibiotics. I tried LOL She gets relief from olive leaf. Not East

> Park, but Country Life or Nature's Way, not sure which one.

> He, also, mentioned wobyzine (?) Someone here takes it, I believe? Do

> you take six per day? Do you notice any difference? Is it worth the money?

> TIA

> -NC

> http://www.gothruus.com-bin/refer.pl?refid=newfpup

> http://www.iwin.com/login/register.asp?ibuddy=RNMSWbellouth (DOT) net

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Geoff Crenshaw here.

> From: " O'Connor " <RNMSW@...>

> Subject: supplements

>

> Has anyone tried both olive leaf and oil of oregano. Not at the

same

> time:-) If so, which was better?

This is not " exactly " in line with your question, but perhaps it will be

of some help. We (my family) started using the Oregamax wild-crafted

dried oregano based on information gleaned here from the group and

Ethel's recommendations. It has been extremely effective at relieving

seasonal allergic reactions to proteinaceous irritants (pollens, etc.)

IOW, it works wonders in relieving sinus congestion, pain, headaches and

what we commonly refer to as hay fever, as well as mediating mild

asthma.

We live in the " Asthma Capitol " of North America so that is no small

endorsement.

As to olive leaf, there you are moving into anti-viral activity, an

activity I was not aware that oregano oil was associated with. I'm aware

of Oregano being associated with fungal & bacterial infections such as

Giardia, Candida, etc., but only in the right genus as Oregano oil is

often mislabeled (ex: Mexican sage is often labeled as Oregano) and as a

pain killer approaching the efficacy of morphine.

Perhaps the concept is, " recognize thine enemy. "

Regards, -----------------------

Geoff ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

How can you have hope?

Get under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24 / REV 12:11

http://www.healingyou.org nonprofit Herbals, Homeopathics & Supplements

http://www.800-800-cruise.com/index-aff.html Make money from travel!

http://www.800-800-cruise.com 100,000+ travel deals in real-time

[Guest guest]

LIndsay takes wobenzyme N for inflammation. She takes 3/day which I assume

is half the adult dosage.

[Guest guest]

Hi guys:

One needs to take at least 3 pcs 3 times/day for several months to make

any difference, I'm afraid. At one time I was taking 10 pcs 3 times/day, and

that was the time when I was feeling better. Ideally, as a supplement

Wobenzym

should be taken continuously, no less than 9 pcs/day.

Regards,

Oleksandr

Re: rheumatic supplements

> LIndsay takes wobenzyme N for inflammation. She takes 3/day which I

assume

> is half the adult dosage.

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Andy,

> This is 's current supplement list, could we start chelation

this

> weekend?

You need to give the C, nu-thera, zinc, B-12 and folic acid 3 or 4

times a day, not just once. Use the amounts you are, but give that

amount 3 or 4 times a day (which will increase how much goes in him).

you can cut the zinc back to 10 mg 3-4 times a day or 20 mg twice a

day in 2-3 weeks. Divide the magnesium up into 3 or 4 doses, the

amount you list is reasonable per day and the epsom salt baths also

help. I would increase the E to at least several hundred units, but

that isn't so important.

The SAMe, R5P and DMG are good ones to experiment with whehter they

should be several times a day or not. The SAMe is energizing for some

people so it is often morning and afternoon only.

Personally I would suggest upping the CLO to 10,000-20,000 IU a day.

A lot of people who haven't searched the literature to find that there

is a complete lack of the vitamin A problems MD's allude to find this

tremendously controversial.

If you start the 3-4 times a day dosing of C, nu-thera, etc. tomorrow

you can chelate on the weekend.

>Would we start with DMSA alone or add the ALA as well?

Up to you. Most parents feel safer starting with DMSA alone. Every 4

hours.

> Many thanks,

> Jill

>

> (b. 3/29/96) 1/13/02

> Supplemental Vitamin Program & other Meds. :

>

> Adderall…………………. 10mg (time release)

> Celexa…………………… 15mg

> Uracholene………………..5mg (60 CMPD Bethanecho-df)

> Beta Glucan (1/3, 1/6)….200mg

> Vit. C……………………250mg

> Vit. E……………………100 IU

> Magnesium……………..250-500 mg

> ProDHA :

> Omega 3………..400mg

> DHA…………...250mg

> EPA………...…100mg

> Riboflavin 5' Phosphate… ..36.5 mg (we are currently out of this so

> has not taken)

> Cod Liver Oil…………2500IU (Vit A)

> SAMe…………………..400mg

> Omega Brite…………..…..2 capsules

> EPA …………...750mg

> DHA………….…110mg

> Zinc……………………….20mg

> DMG……………………...75mg

> Super Nu-Thera with P5P….1 Tablet a day (recommended : 6 tabs a

day)

> Juice Plus Fruit & Veggies....3 Veg. 3 Fruit

> EnzymAid………………..…1 capsule

> Folic Acid…………….... 1600mcg

> CoQ10…………………...…75mg

> B12…………………………500mcg

> B2 (Riboflavin)……………….50mg

> Super Nu-Thera…………...1/2 teas.

> Aminoplex………………...1/2 teas.

> Melatonin………………….1mg.

> Selenium…………………..1mcg.

Are you sure it is only 1 mcg? THat is an insignificant amount of

selenium. 100 mcg is more likely. Make sure it is selenomethionine,

not selenite.

>

>

> Additional Treatment:

> Reduced L-Glutathione Lotion…..180 mg.

> Epsom Salt in bath daily…………. ¾ C.

The more the merrier.

> Magnesium Sulfate Cream……….100mg. (1x a week)

This is not a significant factor over the week - the body only holds

the Mg a few days. Do it more often or save it to use as a rescue

remedy.

>

> Additional Meds:

> Fgf2……………..every 10 days

> Secretin…………10/00 and 9/01

>

>

> Not currently taking:

> EnzymAid Companion…...…1 capsule

> Methylcobalamin (Coe

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thank you for your help. I forgot to mention started TouefF 1/23/02

and we are seeing the predictable results, initial die off during first five

days and then high articulation and cognition.

Thank you again,

Jill

[Guest guest]

At 10:31 AM 5/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Sorry I keep asking so many questions about the supps., but I want to make

sure I'm doing it right. The protocol in the Andy files gives amounts for

each. Are these same amount to be given on the off days as well as the on

days? Do you continue giving this amount the entire chelation time whether

that be a year or two?

>

>Diane

Andy recommends using same supplements on all days (on and off).

Not everyone agrees with this.

Moria

[Guest guest]

Hi

I think CLO on an empty stomach can be nauseating for some, maybe it was

that. Also I don't think Kirkman supps are strong, with the exception perhaps

of SNT. BUT, with all good intentions, Kirkman do add alot of other stuff to

try and make the supps taste good which can be problematic for some kids.

This is not much help is it? Consider giving with food if you didn't last

time. I can't imagine my Sam (non-verbal) telling me supps made him feel bad,

just sit here hoping they don't!

Mandi in UK

> We recently starting giving my son supplements. Today

> about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which had

> 1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it, I

> noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

> asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

> lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

> laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't even

> want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

> is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both the

> CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

> that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

> for some kids.

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried the CLO? I thought I would be sick for about 3 hours after I

tried it too. My ASD daughter takes it w/o problems, but I don't think her

sense of taste is very strong. I would try using only the multi-mineral

first, and the CLO later. Maybe by separating the 2 you can tell more.

Valeri

[ ] Supplements

We recently starting giving my son supplements. Today

about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which had

1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it, I

noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't even

want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both the

CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

for some kids.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, I did actually try the CLO and it turned my

stomach for a good three hours too. In fact, watching

him drink his lemonade with CLO in it makes me feel

sick:) That's a good idea to separate the supplements

- he takes others too. I think I will give him only

the CLO for a few days and then start adding the

others one at a time for a few days. I should have

done this in the first place. thanks!

--- Valeri Dugan <valeri@...> wrote:

> Have you tried the CLO? I thought I would be sick

> for about 3 hours after I

> tried it too. My ASD daughter takes it w/o

> problems, but I don't think her

> sense of taste is very strong. I would try using

> only the multi-mineral

> first, and the CLO later. Maybe by separating the 2

> you can tell more.

>

> Valeri

>

> [ ] Supplements

>

> We recently starting giving my son supplements.

> Today

> about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which

> had

> 1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it, I

> noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

> asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

> lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

> laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't

> even

> want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

> is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both

> the

> CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

> that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

> for some kids.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

If CLO is making your stomach turn, throw it out. Dont give it to your

children as it has most probably seen its day. Fresh CLO should taste like

freshly baked salmon. Make sure you always take at least 400 IU Vitamin E

with it.

[ ] Supplements

>

> We recently starting giving my son supplements. Today

> about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which had

> 1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it, I

> noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

> asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

> lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

> laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't even

> want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

> is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both the

> CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

> that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

> for some kids.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Can you give the CLO after eating? I was advised to do this with B3

because the B vitamins can really upset your stomach. Having a

little food in the stomach helps I guess. I had to do the same thing

with any fish oils because of the " fishy taste " .

.

[Guest guest]

> want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

> is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both the

> CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

> that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

> for some kids.

My son did not tolerate CLO at all until after maybe 15 rounds of ALA

chelation. So perhaps your son just does not tolerate CLO right now?

Dana

[Guest guest]

My son could never tolerate the Kirkman's brand of CLO; it would nauseate him,

so I decided to give him the Nordic Naturals brand of orange flavored CLO. My

son got sick when he took 1/4 teaspoon of Nordic Naturals orange flavored CLO

in applesauce, when he first started. It had a nice taste , but immediately

after he ate it, he was nauseated and threw up. So, this is what we did: The

next time I gave him the CLO, I decided to add 1/2 capsule of NO FENOL to the

mixture, and he has not had any more problems. He keeps the CLO down nicely.

NO MORE NAUSEA; NO MORE STOMACH UPSET. He has been taking the CLO with the NO

Fenol every day about a month; he is up to 1 1/4 teaspoons of CLO, with still

the same amount of NO FENOL, 1/2 capsule of it, opened up and mixed into the

mixture. This works for us. We also add his minerals and extra vitamin E to

the mixture. I would highly recommend trying the NO FENOL. It works in so

many ways. I hope this helps. Rose

[ ] Supplements

We recently starting giving my son supplements. Today

about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which had

1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it, I

noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't even

want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be he

is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both the

CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've heard

that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too strong

for some kids.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Well that's just it. This is the first time he has

told me he feels sick and then to add that " the

lemonade made me sick " was just an added treat - for

me that is - he was feeling pretty bad.

--- Mum231ASD@... wrote:

> Hi

> I think CLO on an empty stomach can be nauseating

> for some, maybe it was

> that. Also I don't think Kirkman supps are strong,

> with the exception perhaps

> of SNT. BUT, with all good intentions, Kirkman do

> add alot of other stuff to

> try and make the supps taste good which can be

> problematic for some kids.

>

> This is not much help is it? Consider giving with

> food if you didn't last

> time. I can't imagine my Sam (non-verbal) telling me

> supps made him feel bad,

> just sit here hoping they don't!

> Mandi in UK

>

> > We recently starting giving my son supplements.

> Today

> > about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which

> had

> > 1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it,

> I

> > noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

> > asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

> > lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

> > laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't

> even

> > want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be

> he

> > is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both

> the

> > CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've

> heard

> > that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too

> strong

> > for some kids.

> >

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I just got it about two weeks ago from Kirkman so I

would hope it's not bad. Guess I have to go and taste

it again. YUCK!! It made my stomach turn because it

tasted and smelled disgusting - it's the lemon-lime

stuff too. I'm really surprised my son who is the

" smell everything " guy even drinks the stuff.

--- Griffiths <rp46285@...> wrote:

> If CLO is making your stomach turn, throw it out.

> Dont give it to your

> children as it has most probably seen its day. Fresh

> CLO should taste like

> freshly baked salmon. Make sure you always take at

> least 400 IU Vitamin E

> with it.

>

>

>

>

> [ ] Supplements

> >

> > We recently starting giving my son supplements.

> Today

> > about 20 minutes after drinking his lemonade which

> had

> > 1/2 tsp of CLO and Kirkman's multi-mineral in it,

> I

> > noticed that he felt hot and his ears were red. I

> > asked him if he felt sick and he said " Yeah, the

> > lemonade made me sick. " He spent the next 3 hours

> > laying on the sofa, did not eat dinner and didn't

> even

> > want more lemonade - which he LOVES. Could it be

> he

> > is having a bad reaction to the supplements? Both

> the

> > CLO and multi-mineral are from Kirkmans - I've

> heard

> > that Kirkman's supplements are sometimes too

> strong

> > for some kids.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi,

eye q is similar to proefa but with different amounts

of the omega 6 and omega 3. The double blind study

should be finished at the end of September.

The web site for eye q is www.equazen.com

Lynda

--- msleatherwood <msleatherwood@...> wrote:

> I recall reading some post regarding additional

> supplements (in

> addition to ProEFA) that was being tried. I think

> that it had

> somehting to do with EYEQ (or a particular

> ingredient in eyeq) but

> have heard nothing for quite a while. Does anyone

> have any idea what

> this might be and if the trial is ongoing or

> completed? Any info

> would be greatly appreciated.

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda,

It's true that the Omega 6 (GLA) and Omega 3 (DHA and EPA)ratios are

different in ProEFA and Eye Q -however I believe the main difference

in the formula is the higher EPA in the Eye Q. They really seem to

be kind of equal however. It would be great if the double blind was

EyeQ vs ProEFA...is that what it is?!

From the equazen website

Eye Q -per 2 500 mg capsules (so equal to one 1000 mg capsule of

ProEFA?)

EPA: 186 mg

DHA: 58 mg

GLA: 20 mg

From the ProEFA bottle -per one 1000 mg capsule

EPA 148

DHA 99

GLA 40

Tanner receives both ProEFA and ProEPA every day and even if I miss

one day we can all hear the difference in that he starts having

trouble getting his words out. I love this stuff! Magic fish oil -

that's what it is till they prove the scientific reason why it works

so well.

Equazen is a great site -however it would be even better if they

wrote about other formulas too, which I guess is hard since it's a

commercial site. ProEFA, Efalex and Eye Q are the three best Omega 3

and Omega 6 formulas. Coromega is probably one of the better Omega 3

formula's due to the high EPA in it. If you go to either

http://www.apraxia.cc or http://speechville.com there is information

on why some of us try adding additional EPA or carnosine and how most of us

found the Omega 3/6 to be better for some reason.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi and all: I may have missed a step here. You state that Tanner

received Pro-EFA and Pro-EPA.......when can a child receive both

supplements? I currently have my son on one capsule of Pro-EFA

alone...and I hope to increase that as he grows, but I can also supplement

with Pro-EPA?

Since you are such a wonderful source of information, I trust this dialogue

over some other " experts " in the field.

Please let me know if I can use both supplements....Thanks. Kim

kiddietalk

<kiddietalk@ya cc: (bcc: S.

Gill/5PES/R05/GSA/GOV)

hoo.com> Subject: [ ] Re:

supplements

08/29/02 12:22

PM

Please respond

to

childrensaprax

ianet

Hi Lynda,

It's true that the Omega 6 (GLA) and Omega 3 (DHA and EPA)ratios are

different in ProEFA and Eye Q -however I believe the main difference

in the formula is the higher EPA in the Eye Q.  They really seem to

be kind of equal however. It would be great if the double blind was

EyeQ vs ProEFA...is that what it is?!

From the equazen website

Eye Q -per 2 500 mg capsules (so equal to one 1000 mg capsule of

ProEFA?)

EPA: 186 mg

DHA: 58 mg

GLA: 20 mg

From the ProEFA bottle -per one 1000 mg capsule

EPA 148

DHA 99

GLA 40

Tanner receives both ProEFA and ProEPA every day and even if I miss

one day we can all hear the difference in that he starts having

trouble getting his words out.  I love this stuff!  Magic fish oil -

that's what it is till they prove the scientific reason why it works

so well.

Equazen is a great site -however it would be even better if they

wrote about other formulas too, which I guess is hard since it's a

commercial site.  ProEFA, Efalex and Eye Q are the three best Omega 3

and Omega 6 formulas.  Coromega is probably one of the better Omega 3

formula's due to the high EPA in it.  If you go to either

http://www.apraxia.cc or http://speechville.com there is information

on why some of us try adding additional EPA or carnosine and how most of us

found the Omega 3/6 to be better for some reason.

=====

[Guest guest]

I hear the trial is completed but the results are not being published until

December.

London UK

In a message dated 8/29/2002 17:13:58 PM GMT Daylight Time,

msleatherwood@... writes:

> I recall reading some post regarding additional supplements (in

> addition to ProEFA) that was being tried. I think that it had

> somehting to do with EYEQ (or a particular ingredient in eyeq) but

> have heard nothing for quite a while. Does anyone have any idea what

> this might be and if the trial is ongoing or completed? Any info

> would be greatly appreciated.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello again,

From what I have been reading from equazen, the study

is linking a major 4:1 ratio as the key with their

formula. They feel that this is what is working. I'm

still trying to understand the whole omega 6/3 thing.

But this doctor is studying 120 children with this

ratio in mind. Perhaps as well, the higher EPA is

significant as well. The study also uses a

breathalizer test to see which children may benifit

from eye q. I can't wait to see the findings.

I agree a study between proefa and eye q would be an

outstanding benifit as well.

Lynda

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

Your question is a great one and one asked before -and again. For

this reason I put my answer from our archives here up as well at

http://www.shop-in-service.com/efa_tips.htm . Just in case you don't

want to read this whole thing -(it's long) I highly suggest just

starting with one capsule a day of ProEFA -even though the dosage is

lower than what is used in most research -it works amazing and almost

all of us see that change you hear about on just the one capsule.

Only increase to two capsules of ProEFA when you reach the plateau (6

months?) -and then when the next plateau comes (one year?) add the

extra EPA and/or carnosine. I have the ratio that a few of us found

the best below. Not as many of us do the kitchen chemist thing of

mixing the oils on a tablespoon.

By adding things slow you will become an expert for your own child in

knowing what formula is working the best for them. And after all

isn't that the main question for all of us that supplement? Most of

us use ProEFA -however some in our group use Efalex, Coromega, EyeQ

and others. Like most of us -go ahead and try them all and see

which " works " the best for your child as long as they are from

reputable companies (some fish oils are rancid) There is even more

information on http://www.speechville.com too!

Subject: DHA?, higher EPA? bit of GLA?, and what about carnosine?

Hi everyone!

It's hard to answer all the recent questions on one email. I can

tell you that there are some questions that came up that can not yet

be answered by anyone for sure (most of them!) -and the professionals

will tell you that. gave some great advice to answer our

questions about the EFAs, in a nutshell online search for answers at

http://www.google.com which is a great search engine -or go direct to

PubMed or other sites like that to do searches. Keep in mind it's

just like anything -our children's doctors need to know so many

things that they may not focus on any one and may (probably) not have

studied EFAs in medical school. In order for your child's

pediatrician, neurologist, teacher, SLP etc. to take EFAs seriously -

don't depend on the anecdotal emails you read here alone -bring them

information from more credible sources -such as research funded by

the NIH like http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/

I tell almost every parent I speak to that renting Lorenzo's Oil is a

good thing to inspire you to the situation I believe we are in with

the EFAs. It's frustrating to realize that there would probably be

more awareness campaigns and more money for research if we found the

same anecdotal results from feeding our children the Mc's Filet

O' Fish sandwich than from plain fish oil alone.

As I've said in the past - I personally can't wait till they figure

out how to put all the Omega 3/6 that's helping so many children

speak into food. For more than one reason. Seeing how great it's

worked for so many " late talking " or apraxic children, and us, the

parents, I can't wait till it's in stuff like ice cream and all so

that I can stop hearing so many saying their child's doctor wonders

about fish oil like it's some kind of drug. It's a food supplement-I

just can't wait till it's a food. Then it will be silly to say " Dr.

is it OK to give Molly eggs from Eggland's Best? " Or "

loves fish oil Ice Cream? Should I switch him to a brand without fish

oil anyway? " I know right now at least two companies that are

working on developing to launch an odorless and tasteless Omega 3/6

powder to add to foods -Roche and Ocean Essentials. And a very cool

article from October 2001 (so we may be seeing more and more of these

fishy foods going ahead in the next four years) is here

http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/archive/2001/100301Mackerel.html " The

U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is providing almost a $1

million to UMass over four years for this project, and nearly as much

over the same period divided among the University of Connecticut,

Pennsylvania State University, and Harvard University Medical

School. "

I appreciate that there is lots of questions about all these things

we are talking about -DHA, EPA, GLA and now carnosine. When we

became parents it's not like we expected to have to study neurology

and brain chemistry -or become neuro scientists or anything. As

Donna pointed out -many medical professionals and academics will

laugh or scoff at the research done up till now. Yes attacks will

come to most who believe in something silly like fish oil therapy -

but let them laugh, our children are talking because of it. We as

the parents and professionals exploring these new therapeutic

approaches are pioneers.

I know that there are some well known in the motor speech disorders

area PhD's like Dr. Crary who is going back to school to do more

research and who has a great interest in the EFA and carnosine area.

The more research done the better for all the children. In the

meantime- I don't know whether all the studies have been good or not -

I just know what we are seeing in just about every child in one to

three weeks, and I don't believe it's fair not to share that

information and give parents the right to make a choice now vs 5 to 6

years from now. I for one wish I knew sooner.

When it comes to supplements or any untraditional therapy suggested -

my advice is to start one thing at a time and keep it simple (KIS) so

you really know what is working -and what's not. There are various

supplements or diets that are talked about here do work amazingly

well for some, and some have a better success rate than others. In

general -you may want to consider trying EFAs first since that

anecdotally works for almost all within days to three weeks in

general. If you have your child on ProEFA, Efalex, or Eye Q or some

other Omega 3/6 formula with no other supplements other than a multi

(regular diet and no blood analysis) wait a few weeks to see if there

are any positive changes in speech, motor planning, focus, and

behavior. I would then recommend looking into the carnosine -talk to

your child's doctor about it.

I would again not recommend starting ProEFA with extra EPA and

carnosine all at once or how will you know which one your child is

responding to? I always suggest starting with just one ProEFA -wait

a few months till there is a plateau to either introduce the

carnosine, or to go up to one and a half or two ProEFA, but just one

or the other. Once you are up to two ProEFA a day -instead of going

to three ProEFA -I recommend adding the additional EPA. Just do it

all gradual -this may take 6 months to a year to do all of the

above. Why? So again you can see what your child is responding to

the most. Is it the Omega 3/6? Is it from the carnosine? Is it the

higher EPA Omega 3/6 formulas? (Omega 3 formula's alone including

high EPA formulas are not anecdotally successful for some reason)

What I've seen with each myself? Here is an archived answer:

For the most part -Tanner's had amazing surges on first Efalex and

then ProEFA -still he didn't talk lots, and kept most of his

sentences shorter. Since the increase in EPA and carnosine to the

ProEFA, and the addition to traditional ST and OT of karate and

swimming lessons, and cranial sacral and therapeutic listening

therapy, I've seen more surges and changes. I posted that after I

increased the EPA to the ProEFA I noticed an immediate improvement in

syntax within the week which stayed with him and is noticeable to

all -I was calling people on the phone to let him talk to them.

Tanner also was talking like a baby before this, and even though we

were thrilled he was talking -he was mixing up past and present and

leaving out the little words which is when I looked into it and

posted lots about SLI -or speech language impairment, and when I

asked a Tallal PhD, and Judy Flax PhD to also be advisors to

CHERAB (check the archives). When I added the carnosine recently I

noticed an increase in the length of speech -more imaginative speech

as you can also see from recent posts in the archives -and all around

just " talking and talking " now. (we need a new " speech " supplement

that combines all this- that doesn't exist yet) The cranial sacral

therapy and the therapeutic listening have both shown improvements in

the smoothness in the speech -and the karate and swimming I believe

are beneficial for a number of reasons including confidence and

awareness of the body for motor planning reasons.

So just like for supplements -I believe observation is the best

advisor for you as a parent

And here is an archived answer about why I started using the higher

EPA with Tanner.

" ...I actually had purchased the ProEPA to up the EPA for my son

Dakota who has been diagnosed by every neuro doctor and teacher since

preschool with ADHD and we are avoiding meds still because he is

excelling in school since we started the fish oils - we have been

trying various formula's of the EFAs to find the best for him to help

his attention still which the fish oils still don't help as much -

however for some reason, he too does better with an Omega 3/6 combo

formula which we didn't know until this year. Dakota was given all

the many bottles of fish oil that didn't work for Tanner when I

thought they were all the same -not realizing back then that most

were just DHA and EPA alone. This year I started to give Dakota the

higher EPA Omega 3/6 mix based on the stuff I read at

http://www.equazen.com before I just found out that the research on

ADHD was with Efalex -I thought it was with EyeQ and the higher EPA.

So I started giving Dakota a ProEFA/ProEPA mix -not Tanner.

Anyway, not knowing, my husband started to give the ProEFA and ProEPA

mix to Tanner as well when Glenn and the boys went to Boston to visit

my new niece for the weekend when I couldn't go this past January.

When they came home, Glenn was saying how my relatives were all

commenting on how well Tanner was talking, and in just that one

weekend I too noticed he was talking a bit faster and more clear.

Once I found out that Glenn gave the mixture to both I kept it up,

shared it with Dr. Agin, and watched, and keep in mind that Tanner

was not in any private therapy at that time. What we saw was a surge

in about a week in speed, recall and great improvement on syntax -he

was no longer " talking like a baby " and mixing up past and present

and leaving out the little words. I was very quiet here about because

I wanted to see if this was just unique to Tanner. So I told a few

other parents and the doctors about it, let them hear Tanner over the

phone I was so proud of him, and I again shared this news with Rhonda

to share with the ECHO Canadian group (can't wait to see you guys -

and no it's not bean-o I'm bringing for you!!) and I waited to see if

others also saw a surge -which it's OK now -you guys can start

posting what you saw.

I still think it's best to start with just the one ProEFA capsule a

day. Increase to two only after the surge isn't that great anymore.

Than after you hit the second plateau again sometime after a few

months-that's when it's good to try upping the EPA a bit by squeezing

a bit in to the mix. If you do it gradual like this then you can see

what is working best for your child... "

This is just my viewpoint and please feel free to share or disagree.

We are all in this together and have the same end goal for our

children!!

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