Re: Detoxing from Estrogen/no it's the P!

[Guest guest]

this comment is not directed at you in any way. It's about the WP folks and their fantastical stories they give for why someone is having problems. Here's another good one. His answer was my ovaries were probably making some E, but had finally given up and we now needed to add more E.That sounds damn fishy! It's my understanding that birthcontrol pills work because we shut the system down. The dosing of the WP far exceeds anyone's birthcontrol pills. Use Occam's Razor. The simpliest answer is likely the best one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razorIn the case of the WP? It's because it's a crazy wacko completely undocumented protocol with shady operators (www.wileywatch.org) selling it is a big huge overdose! That is the right answer not this other malarkey women keep buying from these people about receptors, moon cycles, shifts in the earth's crust, etc. Laurel Yuengel wrote:His answer was my ovaries were probably making some E, but had finally given up and we now needed to add more E. I went to W+2 and keep the P the same. Nothing got better...six months later when voicing the same complaints he said it might be time to add growth hormone. At that point, I told him "no way I will ever do that" and started researching. I found the site (thank you Laurel) and have been reading ever since. Surprise, surprise, all those symptoms are from too much P! I have cut back the E to W+1 and cut the P back dramatically. I took it in a cyclic fashion and went from 1 line to 5 lines and back down again to 1 line on Days 14 to 28. I have done this for two months. In the last cycle, I had a period and noticed that the days I was on P, I felt moody and sad and couldn't remember simple things that I did 5 minutes ago. I was just out of sorts. I am now on Day 2 of the new cycle and feel back to normal again. I, too, worry about continuing to apply the P, but I don't want it to to "pour out of my tissues" like Laurel describes when she quit applying it. Yet applying more doesn't seem to be a good choice either unless continuing to apply a small amount prevents that surge and still allows you to use up the tissue storage...I am looking forward to hear your answer from Dr. Schwarzbein. I plan to only apply 1 line of P on Day 14 to 28 this cycle, which is only 20 mg (100mg is what is in the oral dose of Prometrium and 20 mg is all Dr. Formby recommends applying transdermally). I worry about using "unopposed" estrogen as many feel that is unhealthy and increased your cancer risk. I am seeing an endocrinologist in a week or so. The FP I saw last month who specializes in bioidentical hormones had no clue what to do and thought what I was doing was a good plan. It is ironic that we are just left to figure out what to do on our own and that those who "prescribe" it are useless when it comes to helping us discontinue it without a negative impact to our bodies. ChrisHi Nanci, I'm 61 and stopped my periods at 50. When I started the WP protocol almost 2 years ago I started spotting the first two months and then had a full period until I started to lower my levels two months ago. I cut my E from E+6 to E+3 and only used about six lines total of P the last half. I spotted for about 5 days. Then I went to see Dr. Schwarzbein in Santa Barbara. She told me to just static dose 7 lines morning and night and then start 1/2 line of P morning and night on days through 18 -28. However I started reacting to the P right away on day 20, so she is having me use 6 lines E morning and night and stopping the P. I haven't had any blood and saliva tests done since seeing her. She wants to lower the useage first. She thinks I might have had adrenal failure when I started WP so she is monitoring this. I just asked her the question about stored P in my body from WP and am waiting for an answer. ShereeTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 9:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Detoxing from Estrogen Hi Laurel, Liz and Sheree... I had the same exact thing. Low results on serum blood tests but astronomically high results on saliva tests. I made the mistakes (didn’t even think about it) that when I did the saliva tests, I was only off the WP for 9 days. did you ladies ever bleed on the WP? I never got the return of the period. Even when contemplating about using the WP, this was one thing I was not thrilled about, getting a period again, UGH....that was one good thing about being in menopause....no more bleeding and using pads. do you girls still menstruate or are you menopausal? I haven’t had a period since 2007 (naturally) Strange I find it that serum levels are so low and saliva is so high, why? I too get .5 on the serum and levels of 1395 of Progesterone on saliva. Over 500+ on estradiol on saliva and only 62 (December level before WP) and 38 now, a month off of WP. I don’t understand it all. All I know it screwed up my entire endocrine system. I have now stopped ALL hormones to give my body a real rest from the damage the WP did to me.I told my gyno and he said go with my gut feelings. I am going to start to use phosphatidylserine to try to lower cortisol levels along with Vitamin C. I also take magnesium Taurate, Vitamin D and Omega Fish Oil. I try to eat healthy, but because I don’t feel well most of the time, it’s hard to get out to do any moving of these old bones. It has not stopped raining here in the Northeast (New York) and hasn’t been conducive in getting out. Has the WP affected your endocrine systems? what repercussions has it caused you? Okay, its been a very long day of suffering, so I bid you all a good night..... Be well, Nanci

[Guest guest]

Laurel,

Right now I'm off all P and have lowered my E to 5-6 lines 2x per day and recommended to maybe lower it one more line. However, my hair seems to be jeopardy again and today my vulva area burns again after almost a month of relief. Could you please tell me how you knew when your body was dumping progesterone? What were the symptoms that you had when this would happen? It's so hard to know if I'm getting too much E or having a P dumping. If your history about this is the archives I can't find it yet.

Also, how long did it take to remove all the P out of your system?

Thanks,

Sheree

To: rhythmicliving Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 12:22:01 PMSubject: Re: Detoxing from Estrogen/no it's the P!

this comment is not directed at you in any way.

It's about the WP folks and their fantastical stories they give for why someone is having problems. Here's another good one.

His answer was my ovaries were probably making some E, but had finally given up and we now needed to add more E.

That sounds damn fishy! It's my understanding that birthcontrol pills work because we shut the system down. The dosing of the WP far exceeds anyone's birthcontrol pills.

Use Occam's Razor. The simpliest answer is likely the best one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

In the case of the WP? It's because it's a crazy wacko completely undocumented protocol with shady operators (www.wileywatch.org) selling it is a big huge overdose! That is the right answer not this other malarkey women keep buying from these people about receptors, moon cycles, shifts in the earth's crust, etc.

Laurel

Yuengel wrote:

His answer was my ovaries were probably making some E, but had finally given up and we now needed to add more E.

I went to W+2 and keep the P the same. Nothing got better...six months later when voicing the same complaints he said it might be time to add growth hormone. At that point, I told him "no way I will ever do that" and started researching. I found the site (thank you Laurel) and have been reading ever since. Surprise, surprise, all those symptoms are from too much P! I have cut back the E to W+1 and cut the P back dramatically. I took it in a cyclic fashion and went from 1 line to 5 lines and back down again to 1 line on Days 14 to 28. I have done this for two months. In the last cycle, I had a period and noticed that the days I was on P, I felt moody and sad and couldn't remember simple things that I did 5 minutes ago. I was just out of sorts. I am now on Day 2 of the new cycle and feel back to normal again. I, too, worry about continuing to apply the P, but I don't want it to

to "pour out of my tissues" like Laurel describes when she quit applying it. Yet applying more doesn't seem to be a good choice either unless continuing to apply a small amount prevents that surge and still allows you to use up the tissue storage...I am looking forward to hear your answer from Dr. Schwarzbein. I plan to only apply 1 line of P on Day 14 to 28 this cycle, which is only 20 mg (100mg is what is in the oral dose of Prometrium and 20 mg is all Dr. Formby recommends applying transdermally). I worry about using "unopposed" estrogen as many feel that is unhealthy and increased your cancer risk. I am seeing an endocrinologist in a week or so. The FP I saw last month who specializes in bioidentical hormones had no clue what to do and thought what I was doing was a good plan. It is ironic that we are just left to figure out what to do on our own and that those who "prescribe" it are useless when it comes to

helping us discontinue it without a negative impact to our bodies. Chris

Hi Nanci,

I'm 61 and stopped my periods at 50. When I started the WP protocol almost 2 years ago I started spotting the first two months and then had a full period until I started to lower my levels two months ago. I cut my E from E+6 to E+3 and only used about six lines total of P the last half. I spotted for about 5 days. Then I went to see Dr. Schwarzbein in Santa Barbara. She told me to just static dose 7 lines morning and night and then start 1/2 line of P morning and night on days through 18 -28. However I started reacting to the P right away on day 20, so she is having me use 6 lines E morning and night and stopping the P. I haven't had any blood and saliva tests done since seeing her. She wants to lower the useage first. She thinks I might have had adrenal failure when I started WP so she is monitoring this. I just asked her the question about stored P in my body from WP

and am waiting for an answer.

Sheree

To: rhythmicliving Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 9:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Detoxing from Estrogen

Hi Laurel, Liz and Sheree...

I had the same exact thing. Low results on serum blood tests but astronomically high results on saliva tests. I made the mistakes (didn’t even think about it) that when I did the saliva tests, I was only off the WP for 9 days.

did you ladies ever bleed on the WP? I never got the return of the period. Even when contemplating about using the WP, this was one thing I was not thrilled about, getting a period again, UGH....that was one good thing about being in menopause....no more bleeding and using pads.

do you girls still menstruate or are you menopausal?

I haven’t had a period since 2007 (naturally)

Strange I find it that serum levels are so low and saliva is so high, why? I too get .5 on the serum and levels of 1395 of Progesterone on saliva. Over 500+ on estradiol on saliva and only 62 (December level before WP) and 38 now, a month off of WP. I don’t understand it all. All I know it screwed up my entire endocrine system.

I have now stopped ALL hormones to give my body a real rest from the damage the WP did to me.

I told my gyno and he said go with my gut feelings. I am going to start to use phosphatidylserine to try to lower cortisol levels along with Vitamin C. I also take magnesium Taurate, Vitamin D and Omega Fish Oil. I try to eat healthy, but because I don’t feel well most of the time, it’s hard to get out to do any moving of these old bones. It has not stopped raining here in the Northeast (New York) and hasn’t been conducive in getting out.

Has the WP affected your endocrine systems? what repercussions has it caused you?

Okay, its been a very long day of suffering, so I bid you all a good night.....

Be well,

Nanci