Re: ? Did you see this question?

[Guest guest]

Total T3 is a measure of bound (unuseable) and unbound (free/useable) t3.

RT3 is what the body " normally " turns excess t4 into so it can safely exit

the body. If rt3 increases, it means something is interferring with

conversion of t4 into t3, et al. For example, unaddressed or improperly

addressed adrenal issues, and/or low ferritin/iron...

Armour - it was reformulated, increasing cellulose and replacing

microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people in

the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

do not recommend new Armour anymore.

Please explain this " t3 toxic " with normal frees stuff. Sounds a bit goofy.

And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to when

thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

Sam

=====

> Liz:

> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION to

> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and Karilee

> Shames book, " Thyroid Power " ...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees look

> normal or even " perfect " by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

> not..

> A.

>

>

>>

>> Hi everyone

>> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have tried

>> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to cytomel

>> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of all

>> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

>> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose of

>> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no idea

>> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

>> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

>> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

>> this statement meant:

>>

>> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

>> regimens..another

>> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

>>

>> >>

>>

>> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

>> Thanks!

>> Liz

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sam,I apply estrogel at bedtime. I also take a small T4 dose orally and some T3 sublingually at bedtime. Do you think this creates an interference?Janet To: rhythmicliving From: k9gang@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:00:52 -0700Subject: Re: ? Did you see this question?

Total T3 is a measure of bound (unuseable) and unbound (free/useable) t3.

RT3 is what the body "normally" turns excess t4 into so it can safely exit

the body. If rt3 increases, it means something is interferring with

conversion of t4 into t3, et al. For example, unaddressed or improperly

addressed adrenal issues, and/or low ferritin/iron...

Armour - it was reformulated, increasing cellulose and replacing

microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people in

the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

do not recommend new Armour anymore.

Please explain this "t3 toxic" with normal frees stuff. Sounds a bit goofy.

And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to when

thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

Sam

=====

> Liz:

> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION to

> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and Karilee

> Shames book, "Thyroid Power"...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees look

> normal or even "perfect" by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

> not..

> A.

>

>

>>

>> Hi everyone

>> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have tried

>> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to cytomel

>> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of all

>> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

>> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose of

>> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no idea

>> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

>> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

>> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

>> this statement meant:

>>

>> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

>> regimens..another

>> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

>>

>> >>

>>

>> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

>> Thanks!

>> Liz

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you take all 3 at bedtime it likely would.

You don't take thyroid in the early morning?

Sam

=====

> Sam,I apply estrogel at bedtime. I also take a small T4 dose orally and

> some T3 sublingually at bedtime. Do you think this creates an

> interference?Janet To: rhythmicliving

=====

> From: k9gang@...

> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:00:52 -0700

> Subject: Re: ? Did you see this question?

>

>

>

>

>

> Total T3 is a measure of bound (unuseable) and unbound

> (free/useable) t3.

>

> RT3 is what the body " normally " turns excess t4 into so it can safely exit

>

> the body. If rt3 increases, it means something is interferring with

>

> conversion of t4 into t3, et al. For example, unaddressed or improperly

>

> addressed adrenal issues, and/or low ferritin/iron...

>

>

>

> Armour - it was reformulated, increasing cellulose and replacing

>

> microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

>

> to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

>

> glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people in

>

> the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

>

> hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

>

> allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

>

> where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

>

> do not recommend new Armour anymore.

>

>

>

> Please explain this " t3 toxic " with normal frees stuff. Sounds a bit

> goofy.

>

>

>

> And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

>

> conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to when

>

> thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

>

>

>

> Sam

>

>

>

> =====

>

>> Liz:

>

>> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION to

>

>> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and Karilee

>

>> Shames book, " Thyroid Power " ...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees look

>

>> normal or even " perfect " by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

>

>> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

>

>> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

>

>> not..

>

>> A.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi everyone

>

>>> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have

>>> tried

>

>>> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to

>>> cytomel

>

>>> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of

>>> all

>

>>> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

>

>>> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose of

>

>>> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no idea

>

>>> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

>

>>> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

>

>>> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

>

>>> this statement meant:

>

>>>

>

>>> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

>

>>> regimens..another

>

>>> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

>

>>>

>

>>> >>

>

>>>

>

>>> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

>

>>> Thanks!

>

>>> Liz

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm on a T4/T3 combo and take 3 doses. T4 & T3 upon waking, in the afternoon just T3 and then T4/T3 right before bed. I have found the bedtime dose to be very helpful with sleeping. Since I eat immediately upon waking in the am I split my T4 and take half at bedtime since I won't be eating.Unless I switch to a midday estrogel application seems I'm in the same boat no matter what other time I do it.; )janet To: rhythmicliving From: k9gang@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:16:02 -0700Subject: RE: Re: ? Did you see this question?

If you take all 3 at bedtime it likely would.

You don't take thyroid in the early morning?

Sam

=====

> Sam,I apply estrogel at bedtime. I also take a small T4 dose orally and

> some T3 sublingually at bedtime. Do you think this creates an

> interference?Janet To: rhythmicliving

=====

> From: k9gang@...

> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:00:52 -0700

> Subject: Re: ? Did you see this question?

>

>

>

>

>

> Total T3 is a measure of bound (unuseable) and unbound

> (free/useable) t3.

>

> RT3 is what the body "normally" turns excess t4 into so it can safely exit

>

> the body. If rt3 increases, it means something is interferring with

>

> conversion of t4 into t3, et al. For example, unaddressed or improperly

>

> addressed adrenal issues, and/or low ferritin/iron...

>

>

>

> Armour - it was reformulated, increasing cellulose and replacing

>

> microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

>

> to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

>

> glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people in

>

> the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

>

> hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

>

> allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

>

> where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

>

> do not recommend new Armour anymore.

>

>

>

> Please explain this "t3 toxic" with normal frees stuff. Sounds a bit

> goofy.

>

>

>

> And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

>

> conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to when

>

> thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

>

>

>

> Sam

>

>

>

> =====

>

>> Liz:

>

>> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION to

>

>> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and Karilee

>

>> Shames book, "Thyroid Power"...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees look

>

>> normal or even "perfect" by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

>

>> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

>

>> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

>

>> not..

>

>> A.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi everyone

>

>>> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have

>>> tried

>

>>> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to

>>> cytomel

>

>>> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of

>>> all

>

>>> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

>

>>> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose of

>

>>> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no idea

>

>>> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

>

>>> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

>

>>> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

>

>>> this statement meant:

>

>>>

>

>>> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

>

>>> regimens..another

>

>>> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

>

>>>

>

>>> >>

>

>>>

>

>>> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

>

>>> Thanks!

>

>>> Liz

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's a 'different' dosing schedule than I'm used to seeing.

Generally early morning and early afternoon are more typical.

Is your dosing schedule helpful for you? I mean, considering that these

are synthetic thyroid drugs, and all.

Sam

=====

> I'm on a T4/T3 combo and take 3 doses. T4 & T3 upon waking, in the

> afternoon just T3 and then T4/T3 right before bed. I have found the

> bedtime dose to be very helpful with sleeping. Since I eat immediately

> upon waking in the am I split my T4 and take half at bedtime since I won't

> be eating.Unless I switch to a midday estrogel application seems I'm in

> the same boat no matter what other time I do it.; )janet

=====

> rhythmicliving

> From: k9gang@...

> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:16:02 -0700

> Subject: RE: Re: ? Did you see this question?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> If you take all 3 at bedtime it likely would.

>

>

>

> You don't take thyroid in the early morning?

>

>

>

> Sam

>

>

>

> =====

>

>> Sam,I apply estrogel at bedtime. I also take a small T4 dose orally and

>

>> some T3 sublingually at bedtime. Do you think this creates an

>

>> interference?Janet To: rhythmicliving

>

>

>

> =====

>

>> From: k9gang@...

>

>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:00:52 -0700

>

>> Subject: Re: ? Did you see this question?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Total T3 is a measure of bound (unuseable) and unbound

>

>> (free/useable) t3.

>

>>

>

>> RT3 is what the body " normally " turns excess t4 into so it can safely

>> exit

>

>>

>

>> the body. If rt3 increases, it means something is interferring with

>

>>

>

>> conversion of t4 into t3, et al. For example, unaddressed or improperly

>

>>

>

>> addressed adrenal issues, and/or low ferritin/iron...

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Armour - it was reformulated, increasing cellulose and replacing

>

>>

>

>> microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

>

>>

>

>> to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

>

>>

>

>> glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people

>> in

>

>>

>

>> the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

>

>>

>

>> hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

>

>>

>

>> allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

>

>>

>

>> where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

>

>>

>

>> do not recommend new Armour anymore.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Please explain this " t3 toxic " with normal frees stuff. Sounds a bit

>

>> goofy.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

>

>>

>

>> conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to

>> when

>

>>

>

>> thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Sam

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> =====

>

>>

>

>>> Liz:

>

>>

>

>>> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION

>>> to

>

>>

>

>>> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and

>>> Karilee

>

>>

>

>>> Shames book, " Thyroid Power " ...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees

>>> look

>

>>

>

>>> normal or even " perfect " by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

>

>>

>

>>> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

>

>>

>

>>> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

>

>>

>

>>> not..

>

>>

>

>>> A.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Hi everyone

>

>>

>

>>>> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have

>

>>>> tried

>

>>

>

>>>> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to

>

>>>> cytomel

>

>>

>

>>>> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of

>

>>>> all

>

>>

>

>>>> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

>

>>

>

>>>> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose

>>>> of

>

>>

>

>>>> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no

>>>> idea

>

>>

>

>>>> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

>

>>

>

>>>> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

>

>>

>

>>>> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

>

>>

>

>>>> this statement meant:

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

>

>>

>

>>>> regimens..another

>

>>

>

>>>> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>> >>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

>

>>

>

>>>> Thanks!

>

>>

>

>>>> Liz

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sam,I've been experimenting with my thyroid dosing for 5 years, I have hashi's. I've taken synthetic, old Armour, new Armour, NatureThroid, ERFA and now the synthetic T4/T3 combo, guess that covers most of what's out there ; ) I believe it was you on this list all those years ago, when I was considering the Wiley protocol, who enlightened me to thyroid/adrenal issues. I especially was grateful for the adrenal knowledge as mine sunk deeper a year after starting thyroid hormone. I am currently doing the T4/T3 combo after a horrible allergic reaction in January that I thought might be the ERFA glandular I had been taking for over a year. It wasn't the ERFA. Since I've switched I feel much better and I believe it's the T3 addtion as well as higher dosing overall. T3 has a half life of 5 hours hence the more frequent dosing. It seemed counter intuitive to take a dose at bedtime but it had been discussed on another yahoo group (the RT3 group I think). I tried it and did find I was sleeping better although I do still have problems waking up "vibrating" with an all over sickening feeling, kinda like an internal earthquake. Adrenals? My last saliva test was pretty good but I'm due for a follow up. I have some RT3 also and am hoping this combo will address some of that. I'm on the NDT and RT3 groups as well as an iodine yahoo group.Janet To: rhythmicliving From: k9gang@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:42:16 -0700Subject: Re: ? Did you see this question?

That's a 'different' dosing schedule than I'm used to seeing.

Generally early morning and early afternoon are more typical.

Is your dosing schedule helpful for you? I mean, considering that these

are synthetic thyroid drugs, and all.

Sam

=====

> I'm on a T4/T3 combo and take 3 doses. T4 & T3 upon waking, in the

> afternoon just T3 and then T4/T3 right before bed. I have found the

> bedtime dose to be very helpful with sleeping. Since I eat immediately

> upon waking in the am I split my T4 and take half at bedtime since I won't

> be eating.Unless I switch to a midday estrogel application seems I'm in

> the same boat no matter what other time I do it.; )janet

=====

>

>> microcrystallilne cellulose with methyl-cellulose (which can be reactive

>

>>

>

>> to some), glucose was also lowered. Increased cellulose and lowered

>

>>

>

>> glucose can cause decreased absorption of thyroid hormones. Many people

>> in

>

>>

>

>> the thyroidless group, after switching to reformuated Armour became

>

>>

>

>> hypothyroid on the same dose as previous thyroid med, some experienced

>

>>

>

>> allergic reactions (I'm one of those), others developed thyroid nodules

>

>>

>

>> where none were present before, same with antibodies and other issues. I

>

>>

>

>> do not recommend new Armour anymore.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> And it isn't that BHRT increases Rt3 (aka lowers t4 to t3, et al,

>

>>

>

>> conversion), it's that sometimes when estrogen is taken too close to

>> when

>

>>

>

>> thyroid med is taken it can interfere with the thyroid med.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Sam

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> =====

>

>>

>

>>> Liz:

>

>>

>

>>> The short answer is, that we measure Total and Reverse T3 in ADDITION

>>> to

>

>>

>

>>> frees because frees do not tell the whole story..See and

>>> Karilee

>

>>

>

>>> Shames book, "Thyroid Power"...Some pts can be T3 toxic while frees

>>> look

>

>>

>

>>> normal or even "perfect" by some internet thyroid info sites..BHRT can

>

>>

>

>>> increase RT3...Total T3 can be increased by other hormones in

>

>>

>

>>> flux..sometimes this can be an indication for med adjustment..sometimes

>

>>

>

>>> not..

>

>>

>

>>> A.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Hi everyone

>

>>

>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The vibrating thing is most likely adrenal.

Have you had ferritin/iron testing done?

Electrolytes?

What was the " horrible allergic reaction " that you had?

When you look at your saliva cortisol test, these are what perfect results

are like:

8am - top of the range

12noon - about 3/4 up in range

5-6pm - about 1/4 up in range

12 midnight - bottom of the range

If you do ferritin/iron, ferritin should be about 70+, iron saturation 34%

(I don't have the list for the other ideal results in front of me right

now).

Body temp should not be less than 98.2

Be cautious with some of the info from the RT3 group.

You said you " have some rt3 " and are hoping the t4/t3 combo will help that.

RT3 is a normal thing...it is what excess unused t4 is turned into so it

can safely exit the body. If rt3 increases, it means some more t4 is not

getting converted to t3. So you address why 'that' is happening, you don't

have to address the rt3. Rt3 is just the trash can that unused t4 gets

dumped into...that's all it is. There are lots of reasons why rt3 can

increase, for example like when glucose lowers if one is diabetic and in

that case 'treating' rt3 instead of the real cause can be dangerous.

The t3 in Erfa/Naturethroid, etc lasts about 6 hours.

Taken early morning and then 5-6 hours later seems to copy how a regular

thyroid would work. I know if I take my porcine thyroid in olive oil after

4pm I'm awake and ready to party like a rock star allllllll night long.

I'm impressed that you can actually get to sleep after taking a night time

dose of t3.

I don't have much personal experience taking synthetic t3 other than it

felt like the top of my head was going to blow off and my teeth would

shatter, even on a teeny dose. FWIW I take 11 grains of desiccated porcine

thyroid in olive oil (no cellulose) from Women's International Pharmacy

and feel quite awesome.

Sam

=====

> Sam,I've been experimenting with my thyroid dosing for 5 years, I have

> hashi's. I've taken synthetic, old Armour, new Armour, NatureThroid, ERFA

> and now the synthetic T4/T3 combo, guess that covers most of what's out

> there ; ) I believe it was you on this list all those years ago, when I

> was considering the Wiley protocol, who enlightened me to thyroid/adrenal

> issues. I especially was grateful for the adrenal knowledge as mine sunk

> deeper a year after starting thyroid hormone. I am currently doing the

> T4/T3 combo after a horrible allergic reaction in January that I thought

> might be the ERFA glandular I had been taking for over a year. It wasn't

> the ERFA. Since I've switched I feel much better and I believe it's the

> T3 addtion as well as higher dosing overall. T3 has a half life of 5

> hours hence the more frequent dosing. It seemed counter intuitive to take

> a dose at bedtime but it had been discussed on another yahoo group (the

> RT3 group I think). I tried it and did find I was sleeping better

> although I do still have problems waking up " vibrating " with an all over

> sickening feeling, kinda like an internal earthquake. Adrenals? My last

> saliva test was pretty good but I'm due for a follow up. I have some RT3

> also and am hoping this combo will address some of that. I'm on the NDT

> and RT3 groups as well as an iodine yahoo group.Janet

[Guest guest]

SEE MY REPLIES IN ALL CAPS..

> >>

> >> Hi everyone

> >> Sorry to butt in here, but I am interested in this topic as I have tried

> >> naturethroid, cytomel and synthroid. I seemed to respond best to cytomel

> >> but it raised my shbg and estrogen went down. I have now been off of all

> >> thyroid meds for almost one month. I am trying to see if I can regain

> >> some of my own thyroid function, then I might take a very small dose of

> >> cytomel at a level which will not lower my tsh too much. I have no idea

> >> if this will work. My function is coming back a little, but very very

> >> slowly, and I have been hypo for a month now.

> >> Has anyone done anything like this before? Also, I wanted to see what

> >> this statement meant:

> >>

> >> >>Total T3 can be increased, as can Reverse T3 with some BHRT

> >> regimens..another

> >> good reason to measure Total T3 in addition to free T3 and Free T4..

> >>

> >> >>

> >>

> >> Why should we measure total T3? I didn't understand completely.

> >> Thanks!

> >> Liz

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting info here. Thanks to all who have contributed!

> ESTROGEN CAN AND WILL..ESPECIALLY WHEN TAKEN ORALLY..INCREASE SHBG WHICH

LOWERS FREE THYROID LEVELS..IN ADDITION HORMONE REPLACEMENT (SEE ELAINE MOORE -

GRAVES DISEASE) CAN AFFECT RT3..PERHAPS THROUGH ACTION ON RECEPTOR SITES AND/OR

INSULIN/CORTISOL ACTION..

I thought it was sort of the other way around. Doesn't T3 increase SHBG, which

then decreases the free testosterone and estradiol levels in the blood? That is

definitely what happened to me and how it appeared on the blood tests. The SHBG

was higher when I took high doses of T3, then my free testosterone was low,

while total testosterone was normal. This is one of the reasons I decided to go

off all thyroid meds for a while.

The idea that the total T3 and T4 could go up without the frees going up is very

interesting. It makes me curious to test my total numbers. Are you saying that

the SHBG is binding with the T3? I thought the estradiol binds with the T3, not

the SHBG.

All of this info definitely highlights the need for balance in all of the

hormones. If one thing goes a little high, it throws everything else off!

Sorry. This is so complicated!

Liz

[Guest guest]

Both estrogen and T3 normally both increase SHBG..ideally (according to Holtorf,

et. al)...each hormone has its own individual " SHBG " which responds to the other

sex hormones as well as cortisol and insulin. Cortisol can and does break down

sex hormones. Estrogen by itself, independent of any add'l thyroid

supplementation will normally increase SHBG. I say normally because in some

cases (in my own) both my total T and free T increase when I add in

estradiol..this is likely due to an autoimmune process which no one (including

me) has yet gotten to the bottom of.. Insulin drives DOWN SHBG and can increase

androgens in women, including free androgens.

Notice that I did not say that my frees did not go up during Graves

episodes..just that they remained in normal range..TOTAL T3 goes up and Reverse

T3 goes up..

Both SHBG and albumin " bind " with sex hormones.. " weakly bound " sex hormones are

usually those bound with albumin..Yes..an increase in estradiol usually results

in less free thyroid hormone and more bound, especially if estradiol " peaks " or

is orally delivered..Some good reading for you, in addition to Vliet, is

anything by Uzzi Reiss. In addition, Larrian Gillespie's question/answer forum

is valuable, but IMHO you need to have some basic education first or you'll feel

she's over your head.

And yes, Liz...this IS complicated..I don't understand it all yet..no one DOES

have all the answers..being a difficult pt has caused me to need to educate

myself.

A.

>

> Interesting info here. Thanks to all who have contributed!

>

> > ESTROGEN CAN AND WILL..ESPECIALLY WHEN TAKEN ORALLY..INCREASE SHBG WHICH

LOWERS FREE THYROID LEVELS..IN ADDITION HORMONE REPLACEMENT (SEE ELAINE MOORE -

GRAVES DISEASE) CAN AFFECT RT3..PERHAPS THROUGH ACTION ON RECEPTOR SITES AND/OR

INSULIN/CORTISOL ACTION..

>

> I thought it was sort of the other way around. Doesn't T3 increase SHBG, which

then decreases the free testosterone and estradiol levels in the blood? That is

definitely what happened to me and how it appeared on the blood tests. The SHBG

was higher when I took high doses of T3, then my free testosterone was low,

while total testosterone was normal. This is one of the reasons I decided to go

off all thyroid meds for a while.

>

> The idea that the total T3 and T4 could go up without the frees going up is

very interesting. It makes me curious to test my total numbers. Are you saying

that the SHBG is binding with the T3? I thought the estradiol binds with the T3,

not the SHBG.

>

> All of this info definitely highlights the need for balance in all of the

hormones. If one thing goes a little high, it throws everything else off!

>

> Sorry. This is so complicated!

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Angie, the point I was trying to make is that having Rt3 is normal,

and increased Rt3 doesn't necessarily indicate treatment with a synthetic t3

drug because Rt3 can increase for a wide variety of reasons OTHER than thyroid.

Sam

>

> SEE MY REPLIES IN ALL CAPS..

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. I didn't know about the albumin. Very interesting. I have

read Vliet. I will check out the other references, too. Thanks

Liz

> >

> > Interesting info here. Thanks to all who have contributed!

> >

> > > ESTROGEN CAN AND WILL..ESPECIALLY WHEN TAKEN ORALLY..INCREASE SHBG WHICH

LOWERS FREE THYROID LEVELS..IN ADDITION HORMONE REPLACEMENT (SEE ELAINE MOORE -

GRAVES DISEASE) CAN AFFECT RT3..PERHAPS THROUGH ACTION ON RECEPTOR SITES AND/OR

INSULIN/CORTISOL ACTION..

> >

> > I thought it was sort of the other way around. Doesn't T3 increase SHBG,

which then decreases the free testosterone and estradiol levels in the blood?

That is definitely what happened to me and how it appeared on the blood tests.

The SHBG was higher when I took high doses of T3, then my free testosterone was

low, while total testosterone was normal. This is one of the reasons I decided

to go off all thyroid meds for a while.

> >

> > The idea that the total T3 and T4 could go up without the frees going up is

very interesting. It makes me curious to test my total numbers. Are you saying

that the SHBG is binding with the T3? I thought the estradiol binds with the T3,

not the SHBG.

> >

> > All of this info definitely highlights the need for balance in all of the

hormones. If one thing goes a little high, it throws everything else off!

> >

> > Sorry. This is so complicated!

> > Liz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I wonder if my RT3 tendencies are because I am taking hydrocortisone

for adrenal fatigue. I started HC and at the same time the new doc switched me

from all cytomel to naturethroid. That started a world of problems for me,

including RT3. I'm still trying to fix everything. Could HC cause reverse T3,

even if it is a low dose (25 mg)?

Liz

> >

> > SEE MY REPLIES IN ALL CAPS..

>

[Guest guest]

I have not ever heard of HC, even at low dose, " causing " rt3 to increase.

Remember, having reverse t3 is normal, and increased rt3 can happen for a

variety of reasons.

Sam

> > >

> > > SEE MY REPLIES IN ALL CAPS..

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Having some reverse T3 is normal and is a physioprotective mechanism..however,

enough RT3 (and my magic number is about 150..can't go above) sitting on the

receptor sites in relation to free T3 and you have a pt that is " functionally "

hypothyroid.. Higher than " normal " levels of cortisol can result in increased

reverse conversion..

There is actually a British (with input from a neurologist here in NC) study

going on re high RT3 and a migraine with aura syndrome (also severe

constipation)..Success w/ system ablation seems to come about with either T3

treatment and/or block/treat approach and careful T4 AND T3 supplementation...

I can worsen my RT3 by: taking levothyroxine (any brand..also worsens my TPO

antibody count EVERY time), too low carb dieting, too many carbs (insulin

resistance) as well as too much porcine..I can improve it with: exercise,

stabilization of blood glucose levels (small meals..protein/fat w/small serving

of complex carbs in addition to veggies). I also had a high RT3 right before

bacterial pneumonia last year..

A.

> > > >

> > > > SEE MY REPLIES IN ALL CAPS..

> > >

> >

>