Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so.

Interesting how everyone can differ.

Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: elisabethdonati@...Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth

[Guest guest]

I do not get a bolus effect from Estrogel. I put it on fat areas and it absorbs slowly. In fact, I can go up to 5 days before I start feeling low. Applied to non-fat areas might be different. Val From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of beth DonatiThe problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well.

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

I agree, that was my experience when I tried the patch. I go to Dr. Reiss in LA and the main reason he doesn’t like the patch is because it doesn’t take into consideration that our own estrogen fluctuates every day. Her prefers women to try one of the gels so that they can use it when they need it. I use estrogen in olive oil gel which absorbs well for me. Recently I’ve experimented with a little bit 3 times a day and that has been fantastic.

We are all different and experimenting helps!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:46:28 -0400

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

,

Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so.

Interesting how everyone can differ.

Janet

To: rhythmicliving

From: elisabethdonati@...

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700

Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth

[Guest guest]

Nora,I experiment with the estrogel too. I only dose one pump once a day, at night before bed. When I'm not waking with flashes I back off it a bit scooping up about 1/3 into a contact lense holder which I keep capped so I can use it later when I build up enough of those 1/3's to equal a pump full. I don't take progesterone much because it gives me back the hot flashes. I do a little bit each day since my GYN has read me the riot act and then stop for weeks at a time.Janet To: rhythmicliving From: nrothrock@...Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:21:27 +0100Subject: Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Janet,

I agree, that was my experience when I tried the patch. I go to Dr. Reiss in LA and the main reason he doesn’t like the patch is because it doesn’t take into consideration that our own estrogen fluctuates every day. Her prefers women to try one of the gels so that they can use it when they need it. I use estrogen in olive oil gel which absorbs well for me. Recently I’ve experimented with a little bit 3 times a day and that has been fantastic.

We are all different and experimenting helps!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:46:28 -0400

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

,

Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so.

Interesting how everyone can differ.

Janet

To: rhythmicliving

From: elisabethdonati@...

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700

Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth