Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley prot...

[Guest guest]

Dr. Larrian Gillespie told me to use a patch every two days. That helped tremendously with the problems I was having on the third and fourth days. It made all the difference!

Gael

,Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so. Interesting how everyone can differ.Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: elisabethdonati@...Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth

[Guest guest]

My insurance pays for it because my gyn prescribed it that way, after I told her what LG said.

Gael

That type of dosing makes more sense Gael. It certainly would get expensive though! Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: gaelgreen@...Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 01:32:26 -0400Subject: Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley prot...

Dr. Larrian Gillespie told me to use a patch every two days. That helped tremendously with the problems I was having on the third and fourth days. It made all the difference!

Gael

,Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so. Interesting how everyone can differ.Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: elisabethdonati@...Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth

[Guest guest]

That type of dosing makes more sense Gael. It certainly would get expensive though! Janet To: rhythmicliving From: gaelgreen@...Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 01:32:26 -0400Subject: Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley prot...

Dr. Larrian Gillespie told me to use a patch every two days. That helped tremendously with the problems I was having on the third and fourth days. It made all the difference!

Gael

,Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so. Interesting how everyone can differ.Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: elisabethdonati@...Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth

[Guest guest]

Nice to have RX coverage, good for you ! I'm self employed as well as self insured. Got a discount type of RX card which is helpful and a $5,000 deductible for everything else. I get my RXs from Canada which consistently is less than half of what I'd have to pay in the states.janet To: rhythmicliving From: gaelgreen@...Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:57:35 -0400Subject: Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley prot...

My insurance pays for it because my gyn prescribed it that way, after I told her what LG said.

Gael

That type of dosing makes more sense Gael. It certainly would get expensive though! Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: gaelgreen@...Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 01:32:26 -0400Subject: Re: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley prot...

Dr. Larrian Gillespie told me to use a patch every two days. That helped tremendously with the problems I was having on the third and fourth days. It made all the difference!

Gael

,Thanks for sharing your experience with Dr. Schwarzbein. Very interesting that she prefers the patch. I have taken oral, transdermal, the patch and now estrogel. What I found on the patch was that it was inconsistent for me. As I neared the last day of the patch (and at 2 per week you don't have two even unless she doses it differently) I found it didn't seem to be working as well as the first day or so. Interesting how everyone can differ.Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: elisabethdonati@...Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:34:47 -0700Subject: types of estrogen and weaning off the dreaded Wiley protocol

Hi Lori...peeking is fun:)

The only delivery method that Dr. Schwarzbein has had any luck with is the patch and she prefers the Vivelle Dot patch. She says it's because it delivers estrodial in a minute amounts that the body is used to getting consistently over time before we go into menopause and our hormones start decreasing naturally.

The problem with the creams and gels is that you get a bolus effect (large amount at once) that then tapers all day until maybe no effect and the body doesn't handle it well. Since the sex hormones are a minor hormone system and do affect all of the other systems, having this large amount go to small amounts effects our adrenals and thyroid and everything else. Not good.

As she is tapering me/weaning me/detoxing me from the massive amounts of hormones in the Wiley protocol (bad protocol), she has added the patch so that my system never has nothing in it. The progesterone is still blocking the calcium channel blocker effects of the estrogen which she thinks/says is causing my mini-cramps/leg (and body sometimes) twitching (which is sooooo annoying and sometimes gets painful). She has me on 10 ml progesterone suppositories but stopped me early (day 24) this month because I was in a lot of twitching pain. Next month I'm using the progesterone starting day 18 instead of day 15.

As of next week, I will be dropping down to 3 lines of transdermal morning and night (from 8 at the peek in February!!!) with .15 ml patch (a .1 and a .05) to help protect me from the crash my body does each time she lowers me a line.

She seems to be lowering me one line per month. She waits until 7 days after I start bleeding (there's a reason for this but I forget what it is right now) before I lower it.

Each time she lowers me a line, the percentage that I'm lowered increases. In other words, from 8 to 7 lines is a much smaller amount than from 4 to 3 lines as it will be next week.

The transition time I'm having to adjust isn't long but our goal is to get me off this dangerous wiley protocol as quickly as I can handle it. I went into this knowing it would take 6-12 months before I got my pre-hormone happy, healthy body back!

Hope that helps anyone who's working on this also.

Hugs to you all...beth