Re: Re: Cycling question

[Guest guest]

Hi Sabina,

Has your dr ever heard of the patch? This is also straight estradiol.

Good luck!

Liz

Sheree:

Thank you for your answer. That was my initial question. I experienced a bleed on day 23, not after stopping the progesterone on day 28. Like I said, I think I should have just counted that as day 1 again. It was just a short cycle.

I am taking estrogen continuously and recently requested straight estradiol from my doc, but she said she had never heard of people taking straight estradiol, but we compromised and I am on 50/50 estradiol/estriol. I understand Estrogel is straight estradiol and bio-identical? Maybe she can switch me to that. I’ll look into the patch options.

I am receiving Dr. Schwarzbein’s menopause minutes. I think you sent me the link. Thank you again. Best, Sabina

[Guest guest]

,The following information is from Dr. Schwarzbein's, Menopause Power, booklet.In menopause, you do not lose the ability to make your own estriol. Estriol is made as a by-product of estradiol metabolism. If you restore your estradiol, your body will convert it to estriol. Rule One states:"Do not give a hormone that the body can still make." Also, there is no way to administer estriol in abioequivalent manner. It can only be compounded into troches, topical creams, or pills.The transdermal patch bypasses the liver and allows for a relatively steady, time-released delivery of the lowest dosages of estradiol that are required to re-establish metabolic

balance. Other forms of estradiol deliver unnecessarily large dosages and/or do not bypass the liver. Achieving the same therapeutic effect with orally administered estradiol requires 10 to 20 times the dosage required for estradiol delivered through a transdermal patch.You take estradiol all month long and take progesterone for only 11 to 14 continuous days out of each month. Prior to menopause, the average amount of estradiol produced all month long was about the same in both phases of the menstrual cycle. In contrast, progesterone production was very low in the follicular phase and then much higher in the luteal phase. The progesterone produced in the follicular phase came primarily from the adrenal glands, not the ovaries. Therefore, you need to supplement estradiol all month long. However, you do not need supplemental progesterone in the first half of the cycle, only in the second

half. Take the same dosage of estradiol throughout the month. Since estradiol is present in both phases at about the same levels, you can generally take the same dosages of estradiol for the entire cycle. You also do not need to change the estradiol dosage because estradiol enhances its own effect as well as the effect of progesterone, and progesterone diminishes its own effect as well as the effect of estradiol. So, the response to any given dosage of hormones, in other words, the "hormone effect," will vary continuously throughout the month as these two hormones interact with themselves and each other.Take the same dosage of progesterone for the 11 to 14 days. You can generally take the same dosage of progesterone throughout the progesterone phase of the cycle as the response to any given dosage changes on a daily basis. As with everything in medicine, there are

exceptions. To tolerate progesterone well, some women need to slowly increase and then decrease progesterone dosages.Use an intravaginal progesterone preparation. This form bypasses the liver and enables using the lowest dosages of progesterone required to re-establish metabolic balance. Other forms of progesterone deliver unnecessarily large dosages and/or do not deliver the hormones in a bioequivalent manner.Do not take progesterone all month long.Do not take progesterone by itself, always with estradiolDo not use oral forms of hormones.Do not take hormones in forms that deliver high dosages and/or a bolus of hormones.Do not take supplemental testosterone. There are three major reasons not to take testosterone: 1) Testosterone production by most menopausal women remains sufficient to counter the lower average

levels of restored estradiol, so you don't need to add any more testosterone. 2) Testosterone is an anti-estrogen; it blocks the estradiol effect. If you take testosterone, you will have to take more estradiol, which violates the requirement to take only the lowest dosages of hormones needed to reestablish metabolic balance. 3) Progesterone converts to testosterone in the adrenal glands and in the ovaries. So, by supplementing progesterone, you are indirectly supplementing testosterone. A very low dosage of supplemental testosterone may be appropriate if you no longer have ovaries - but his is rare!One thing I keep becoming more aware of is that the Wiley Protocol dosages screw up one's whole metabolism and definitely breaks Dr. Schwarzbein's Rule One: restore only the hormones that are missing. As metabolic balance gets more out of balanced, then hormone dosages are upped or more hormones

are added to try and fix the symptom. What a nightmare and vicious cycle!Also, Day 1 should be the day you stop taking your progesterone not the day you start or stop a bleed. Eventually when you are balanced, your period should be similar to what it was prior to menopause, and there should be minimal to no clotting. If you flow is scanty, it indicates your estradiol dosage is too low, your progesterone dosage is too high, or both. If you are experiencing a lot of clotting or are having heavy periods, it is likely that your progesterone dosage is too low low and/or your estradiol dosage is too high. Hope this helps,ShereeTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Fri, May 18, 2012 5:27:40 PMSubject: Re: Cycling question

Sheree: Thank you for your answer. That was my initial question. I experienced a bleed on day 23, not after stopping the progesterone on day 28. Like I said, I think I should have just counted that as day 1 again. It was just a short cycle. I am taking estrogen continuously and recently requested straight estradiol from my doc, but she said she had never heard of people taking straight estradiol, but we compromised and I am on 50/50 estradiol/estriol. I understand Estrogel is straight estradiol and bio-identical? Maybe she can switch me to that. I’ll look into the patch options. I am receiving Dr. Schwarzbein’s menopause minutes. I think you sent me the link. Thank you again. Best, Sabina

[Guest guest]

Estrogel and the patch are both straight estradiol and bioidentical. I believe oral Estrace is straight estradiol as well. Per Dr. Gillespie, estradiol converts to the other estrogens as needed. Per Dr. Vliet, there is no history of increased stroke risk with transdermal but there is with oral. Val From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Sabina von WredeI am taking estrogen continuously and recently requested straight estradiol from my doc, but she said she had never heard of people taking straight estradiol, but we compromised and I am on 50/50 estradiol/estriol. I understand Estrogel is straight estradiol and bio-identical? Maybe she can switch me to that. I’ll look into the patch options.

[Guest guest]

,Dr. S told me to take the progesterone for the full 11 to 14 days even though I start a a bleed. ShereeTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Mon, May 21, 2012 5:18:53 PMSubject: Re:

Cycling question

Sheree: Thank you for your valuable feedback. However, in regards to my original question, regarding my cycle I don’t think I expressed myself very clearly, so I will try again. I have been taking estrogen continuously, but without having a period for the past year. I have also been cycling Progesterone with two weeks on and two weeks off. I recently picked a new moon date as day 1 of my cycle, took my estrogen and then added Progesterone on day 15. (I had also increased my estrogen during this cycle). On day 23, while still in the middle of the Progesterone phase I started a bleed. What should I have done? Continued taking Progesterone till the end of the Progesterone phase?Stop the Progesterone and

continue with just Estrogen for the next two weeks? That was really my main question. Before stopping bleeding about a year ago, my cycles would vary but usually be between 28 and 33 days, but there was also the occasional 23 day cycle. Thank you for sharing Dr. Schwarzbein’s and your info with me/us. I also saw the new Menopause minutes come in today. Best, Sabina