Re: Megase

[Guest guest]

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

I want to thank those of you that were kind enough to read my post be so sympathetic and supportive. I truly appreciate your time and opinions.I would like to delve a bit deeper and answer some of your questions about my situation. I would also like to ask some questions and make my own comments about your posts that I find intriguing. Point of reference, Please do not misinterpret any of my questions. I am truly fascinated by the diversity of experiences many of you had.Gael, and all of you, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Please note that you do not have to answer any of my questions but I was really interested at what age you were diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Did they find it post menopausal after you took estradiol? You said that you feel much better, I have no symptoms from this condition, I never had any symptoms except for one episode of bleeding between menstruation. In fact my menstruation was always quite "normal". The research is pretty diverse when it comes to oophorectomy. Some researchers say not to take the ovaries, that women who are premenopausal will still get some hormones from the ovaries and that the mortality rate from an oophorectomy premenopausal is 170% more than women who did not have their ovaries removed. I assume that there is a much higher risk of heart disease, and osteoporosis, however they are not clear on how this number came to be. Still and WOW that is a big number. Most doctors feel that can be mitigated by hormone replacement or so they say. Here is my issue, although ovarian cancer is such a low risk, I do know for a fact that many times the ovaries shut down immediately, the blood supply and nerve supply is cut when the uterus is removed so within two years the ovaries will shut down anyway. I also read studies that the side effects of surgical menopause are the same whether you take out your ovaries or not. Now every person is different since we a ll have different blood supply, different nerve supplies and different surgeons, we will likely have different experiences. I do know that the ovaries are not "stupid" it knows there is no uterus there, it will stop producing hormones to build the endometrium. I hope that explains why they want to remove my ovaries WS. (Oh and the other opinions, oh yes I got them, they had no idea what I had 6 years ago, never heard of it, even at Sloan Kettering and their opinion was total hysterectomy immediately, but then again they were men)Not "believing" in estrogen dominance is puzzling to me. I am not sure what you would call gynecomastia (breasts) in young boys, young girls menstruating at 10 and younger etc. This is from the bombardment of hormones fed to animals, and what is found in milk. If you were born in the 60's odds are your mother fed you out of a disposable playtex nurser, made out of plastic and loaded with xenoestrogens, they weren't BPA free at the time. All the tupperware, plastic wrap, toys, this all contributes to estrogen dominance and endocrine disruption. That doesn't include the amount of estrogen in every fat cell in the body so if you are overweight well, you are also storing estrogen. Then don't forget the phytoestrogens in soy. All included in our estrogen supply, makeup, handcream, should I go on? Our world is full of estrogen, we cant help but be dominated!The high dose progesterone is the "gold standard" now for complex endometrial atypia, for someone who is opting out of hysterectomy. I asked for it in a way because I chose not to get a hysterectomy at 39. In fact I was in one of my oncologists research studies.Liz:I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose y our hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?E

[Guest guest]

Hello E.

My story is long and it all started when I was 37ish. Thought I was going into pre menopause (I knew NOTHING about hormones at that time) dr said I was to young and wanted to put me on birth control. I refused. Went to a Nurse practioner who prescribed me prescription transdermal progesterone cream. My symptoms previous were, a bit of depression, hot flashes (I didn’t know what they were then) low energy, and just feeling blah. I’m sure I had other symptoms but can’t remember now. I have never had children. I did smoke but had quit 7 years prior. I have always been super skinny. At that time, no hormone testing had been done. The Dr. Lee mentally was rampant. I read the books after the NP suggested and of course, the C word was the driving motivation to using P and it was supposed to be the MIRACLE to prevent it. At the time I started on the P cream, my periods were completely regular. COMPLETELY. I did have heavy periods, clots, some cramping at first, and they lasted 7 days. EVERY single time. On the dot. I never became anemic. After 2 weeks on the cream, I had become dizzy, anxious and some depression. When I complained about this, I was told to use more, as it was a natural anti depressant. And again, not knowing anything and TRUSTING that she was steering me right, I used more. After the third cycle (I used it 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) I was SERVERELY depressed, anxious, heart palps, in my bed. I had to quit my business, and my job. (I had two things going at that time) During this time, I am still believing that the NP is taking good care of me. Still not connecting the P to the symtoms because I was told this was not the problem. Now, I’m a head case to everyone. I didn’t stop the P because the NP had put the FEAR of cancer in my head and I”m still not connecting the dots because by now I am fucked up in my mind. (sorry). Ended up on the anti depressants. (another story that I won’t go into). During this time, after about 3 months or so, my periods start getting longer and now I”m telling the NP I think I have cancer. Do not ask me why I think this because I didn’t have access to any info really then. She’s telling me I”m to young. It’s stress. So again, I TRUST. Then I start spotting in between periods. Again, I’m told, this is normal. Then I start spotting continuously. I am now convinced something is seriously wrong. At this time I am still using the Cream like a good patient, on AD’s, anti anxiety, and now a beta blocker because my blood pressure is up and heart palps. Sick as a freaking dog. And convinced I’m a physco person and that I’m just crazy. I went to 3 drs, who kept telling me I was to young to have cancer. One told me it was a pelvic infection. WTF???? I knew it wasn’t an infection. I didn’t have any symptoms except bleeding. During this time, I did not know to ask for a Endometrial biopsy. Finally, a dr did one. 3 days later I was told I had cancer, 2 weeks later, complete hyst with lymph nodes removed in my pelvis. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. The tumor was a Stage 1b. I am CONVINCED the progesterone was the cause of my problems. I’m not saying it caused the cancer but it was involved. OR it had nothing to do with it and the P didn’t protect me at all and just created all kinds of other problems.

I was told by the dr that if I were his sister, (I hate this line, and it was used on me several years later, when I had my gallbladder removed needlessly) he would recommend the complete hyst. Looking back now, I would have kept my ovaries. I did go into instant menopause. But it was not like it was severe instantly. It gradually got worse. Over a 6 month period. BUT it could have all been prevented if I had been given proper advice right after the hyst. After talking to several gyn oncologists, I could have gone immediately on Estrogen as I was considered “Cured” the moment they took out my uterus. Which would have saved me the hell I’m in now. (Because I ended up going on the WP which is my next hell story and can be read in the archives)

The P from the WP almost killed me. And again, I was brainwashed to think I needed the P to prevent cancer. Well, let me tell you, the hell I’ve been through the last 7 years from being on that protocol has been nothing short of, well, hell.

Don’t let the fear of what might be if you remove your uterus, and replacing hormones, stop you from doing a hyst. Lots and lots of women do just fine. Even better!

I’m not sure why you are vegan, (ethical or just don’t want to eat meat) but maybe your body is needing some good flesh protein, some E and some relaxation.

I am sorry that your dr is torturing women (yep, I said it) and putting added to the fear into the mix. I say if she suggests taking out your uterus, do it, the torture and strain put upon your body to try and save it has to be harder than the surgical menopause. Have you had your bones checked? Have you had your hormone levels checked?

FEAR is what drove me to start P in the first place, FEAR is what kept me on it.

The WP created it’s own mess and now I suffer because of it.

Hormones are very powerful as you are aware of.

I guess my frustration is still there! I keep thinking I”m over the anger :-) Sorry for the rant. Just sharing my experience and my thoughts.

As for getting the P out of your system, who really knows? I never showed high levels in my blood and know it was there. I now show practically nothing. Time is the factor. And how much you can handle. Maybe it releases on it’s own. My niece did one shot of Depo and it took 2 years for her to get normal. (She’s young)

Sorry if this is sounds disjointed and not clear. I too, have a hard time expressing myself in writing.

Liz

Liz:

I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.

Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose your hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, " If you were my sister I would tell you it is time. "

Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.

The great thing is that I am really " healthy " in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.

Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.

So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?

E

Liz Vernand

Channel Islands Sportfishing Center

4151 S. Ave.

Oxnard, CA 93035

http://channelislandssportfishing.com/

[Guest guest]

Love your response, Gael!

Liz

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my " take " on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

[Guest guest]

Gael,I love your response also. You explained things in a very understandable way. Thanks, ShereeTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 6:47:11 AMSubject: Re:

Megase

Love your response, Gael!

Liz

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real

estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show

that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

[Guest guest]

Hi Gael,This is also my understanding.I've been using estradiol in olive oil or the Vivelle .1 patch (when travelling) and both have been working really well for me. I use a tiny amount of progesterone 3 days per month. I find that the progesterone in a small amount helps flip a 'switch' which is how I think feel like hormones cycle. I feel great after the switch!NoraReply-To: <rhythmicliving >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:39:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <rhythmicliving >Subject: Re: Megase

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation. Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body. I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words! As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'. I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not. I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it. Best to you, Gael

I want to thank those of you that were kind enough to read my post be so sympathetic and supportive. I truly appreciate your time and opinions.I would like to delve a bit deeper and answer some of your questions about my situation. I would also like to ask some questions and make my own comments about your posts that I find intriguing. Point of reference, Please do not misinterpret any of my questions. I am truly fascinated by the diversity of experiences many of you had.Gael, and all of you, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Please note that you do not have to answer any of my questions but I was really interested at what age you were diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Did they find it post menopausal after you took estradiol? You said that you feel much better, I have no symptoms from this condition, I never had any symptoms except for one episode of bleeding between menstruation. In fact my menstruation was always quite "normal". The research is pretty diverse when it comes to oophorectomy. Some researchers say not to take the ovaries, that women who are premenopausal will still get some hormones from the ovaries and that the mortality rate from an oophorectomy premenopausal is 170% more than women who did not have their ovaries removed. I assume that there is a much higher risk of heart disease, and osteoporosis, however they are not clear on how this number came to be. Still and WOW that is a big number. Most doctors feel that can be mitigated by hormone replacement or so they say. Here is my issue, although ovarian cancer is such a low risk, I do know for a fact that many times the ovaries shut down immediately, the blood supply and nerve supply is cut when the uterus is removed so within two years the ovaries will shut down anyway. I also read studies that the side effects of surgical menopause are the same whether you take out your ovaries or not. Now every person is different since we a ll have different blood supply, different nerve supplies and different surgeons, we will likely have different experiences. I do know that the ovaries are not "stupid" it knows there is no uterus there, it will stop producing hormones to build the endometrium. I hope that explains why they want to remove my ovaries WS. (Oh and the other opinions, oh yes I got them, they had no idea what I had 6 years ago, never heard of it, even at Sloan Kettering and their opinion was total hysterectomy immediately, but then again they were men)Not "believing" in estrogen dominance is puzzling to me. I am not sure what you would call gynecomastia (breasts) in young boys, young girls menstruating at 10 and younger etc. This is from the bombardment of hormones fed to animals, and what is found in milk. If you were born in the 60's odds are your mother fed you out of a disposable playtex nurser, made out of plastic and loaded with xenoestrogens, they weren't BPA free at the time. All the tupperware, plastic wrap, toys, this all contributes to estrogen dominance and endocrine disruption. That doesn't include the amount of estrogen in every fat cell in the body so if you are overweight well, you are also storing estrogen. Then don't forget the phytoestrogens in soy. All included in our estrogen supply, makeup, handcream, should I go on? Our world is full of estrogen, we cant help but be dominated!The high dose progesterone is the "gold standard" now for complex endometrial atypia, for someone who is opting out of hysterectomy. I asked for it in a way because I chose not to get a hysterectomy at 39. In fact I was in one of my oncologists research studies.Liz:I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose y our hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?E

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Liz.

Also thank you for putting your story here. What a wild ride all of that had to be! I'm so happy that you came out the other side and that you are here now and doing well.

Gael

Love your response, Gael! Liz

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplyin g estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body. I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words! As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain th eir ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'. I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not. I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it. Best to you, Gael

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Sheree! And thank you for sharing the Dr. S. information with us and sharing your own struggles.

Gael

Gael,

I love your response also. You explained things in a very understandable way.

Thanks,

Sheree

To: rhythmicliving Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 6:47:11 AMSubject: Re: Megase

Love your response, Gael! Liz

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body. I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words! As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'. I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not. I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it. Best to you, Gael

[Guest guest]

I am still afraid of the P, Nora. The last time I tried it, I used a miniscule amount and it sent me into spells of vertigo that last for weeks.

Many reputable doctors and scientists say that the body has no need of P after menopause and without a uterus. I just don't know. I am two for two on that one but I know that some people on this list feel better when they use a bit of P. We are all so different. I'm so happy that it works for you and that you feel great using it sparingly. I wish I did!

Gael

Hi Gael,

This is also my understanding.

I've been using estradiol in olive oil or the Vivelle .1 patch (when travelling) and both have been working really well for me. I use a tiny amount of progesterone 3 days per month. I find that the progesterone in a small amount helps flip a 'switch' which is how I think feel like hormones cycle. I feel great after the switch!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:39:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <rhythmicliving >Subject: Re: Megase

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

I want to thank those of you that were kind enough to read my post be so sympathetic and supportive. I truly appreciate your time and opinions.I would like to delve a bit deeper and answer some of your questions about my situation. I would also like to ask some questions and make my own comments about your posts that I find intriguing. Point of reference, Please do not misinterpret any of my questions. I am truly fascinated by the diversity of experiences many of you had.Gael, and all of you, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Please note that you do not have to answer any of my questions but I was really interested at what age you were diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Did they find it post menopausal after you took estradiol? You said that you feel much better, I have no symptoms from this condition, I never had any symptoms except for one episode of bleeding between menstruation. In fact my menstruation was always quite "normal". The research is pretty diverse when it comes to oophorectomy. Some researchers say not to take the ovaries, that women who are premenopausal will still get some hormones from the ovaries and that the mortality rate from an oophorectomy premenopausal is 170% more than women who did not have their ovaries removed. I assume that there is a much higher risk of heart disease, and osteoporosis, however they are not clear on how this number came to be. Still and WOW that is a big number. Most doctors feel that can be mitigated by hormone replacement or so they say. Here is my issue, although ovarian cancer is such a low risk, I do know for a fact that many times the ovaries shut down immediately, the blood supply and nerve supply is cut when the uterus is removed so within two years the ovaries will shut down anyway. I also read studies that the side effects of surgical menopause are the same whether you take out your ovaries or not. Now every person is different since we a ll have different blood supply, different nerve supplies and different surgeons, we will likely have different experiences. I do know that the ovaries are not "stupid" it knows there is no uterus there, it will stop producing hormones to build the endometrium. I hope that explains why they want to remove my ovaries WS. (Oh and the other opinions, oh yes I got them, they had no idea what I had 6 years ago, never heard of it, even at Sloan Kettering and their opinion was total hysterectomy immediately, but then again they were men)Not "believing" in estrogen dominance is puzzling to me. I am not sure what you would call gynecomastia (breasts) in young boys, young girls menstruating at 10 and younger etc. This is from the bombardment of hormones fed to animals, and what is found in milk. If you were born in the 60's odds are your mother fed you out of a disposable playtex nurser, made out of plastic and loaded with xenoestrogens, they weren't BPA free at the time. All the tupperware, plastic wrap, toys, this all contributes to estrogen dominance and endocrine disruption. That doesn't include the amount of estrogen in every fat cell in the body so if you are overweight well, you are also storing estrogen. Then don't forget the phytoestrogens in soy. All included in our estrogen supply, makeup, handcream, should I go on? Our world is full of estrogen, we cant help but be dominated!The high dose progesterone is the "gold standard" now for complex endometrial atypia, for someone who is opting out of hysterectomy. I asked for it in a way because I chose not to get a hysterectomy at 39. In fact I was in one of my oncologists research studies.Liz:I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose y our hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?E

[Guest guest]

No you don't!

So happy you found out the cause of it all.

Gael

Sorry if this is sounds disjointed and not clear. I too, have a hard time expressing myself in writing.Liz

[Guest guest]

Gael,If you don't have a uterus you don't need P. And the patch won't hurt you because it is bio-identical and bio-equivalant. In fact, it fills in the receptors that xeno-estrogens try to take over causing all kinds of problems. If someone still has a uterus, it is also possible to use a low level of estradiol patch without progesterone or take it every 3 or 4 months for 11 days. I would love to get on that kind of protocol eventually. We'll see.Thanks so much for sharing your story. It blesses me.ShereseTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 10:37:06 PMSubject: Re: Megase

I am still afraid of the P, Nora. The last time I tried it, I used a minis cule amount and it sent me into spells of vertigo that last for weeks.

Many reputable doctors and scientists say that the body has no need of P after menopause and without a uterus. I just don't know. I am two for two on that one but I know that some people on this list feel better when they use a bit of P. We are all so different. I'm so happy that it works for you and that you feel great using it sparingly. I wish I did!

Gael

Hi Gael,

This is also my understanding.

I've been using estradiol in olive oil or the Vivelle .1 patch (when travelling) and both have been working really well for me. I use a tiny amount of progesterone 3 days per month. I find that the progesterone in a small amount helps flip a 'switch' which is how I think feel like hormones cycle. I feel great after the switch!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:39:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <rhythmicliving >Subject: Re: Megase

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

I want to thank those of you that were kind enough to read my post be so sympathetic and supportive. I truly appreciate your time and opinions.I would like to delve a bit deeper and answer some of your questions about my situation. I would also like to ask some questions and make my own comments about your posts that I find intriguing. Point of reference, Please do not misinterpret any of my questions. I am truly fascinated by the diversity of experiences many of you had.Gael, and all of you, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Please note that you do not have to answer any of my questions but I was really interested at what age you were diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Did they find it post menopausal after you took estradiol? You said that you feel much better, I have no symptoms from this condition, I never had any symptoms except for one episode of bleeding between menstruation. In fact my menstruation was always quite "normal". The research is pretty diverse when it comes to oophorectomy. Some researchers say not to take the ovaries, that women who are premenopausal will still get some hormones from the ovaries and that the mortality rate from an oophorectomy premenopausal is 170% more than women who did not have their ovaries removed. I assume that there is a much higher risk of heart disease, and osteoporosis, however they are not clear on how this number came to be. Still and WOW that is a big number. Most doctors feel that can be mitigated by hormone replacement or so they say. Here is my issue, although ovarian cancer is such a low risk, I do know for a fact that many times the ovaries shut down immediately, the blood supply and nerve supply is cut when the uterus is removed so within two years the ovaries will shut down anyway. I also read studies that the side effects of surgical menopause are the same whether you take out your ovaries or not. Now every person is different since we a ll have different blood supply, different nerve supplies and different surgeons, we will likely have different experiences. I do know that the ovaries are not "stupid" it knows there is no uterus there, it will stop producing hormones to build the endometrium. I hope that explains why they want to remove my ovaries WS. (Oh and the other opinions, oh yes I got them, they had no idea what I had 6 years ago, never heard of it, even at Sloan Kettering and their opinion was total hysterectomy immediately, but then again they were men)Not "believing" in estrogen dominance is puzzling to me. I am not sure what you would call gynecomastia (breasts) in young boys, young girls menstruating at 10 and younger etc. This is from the bombardment of hormones fed to animals, and what is found in milk. If you were born in the 60's odds are your mother fed you out of a disposable playtex nurser, made out of plastic and loaded with xenoestrogens, they weren't BPA free at the time. All the tupperware, plastic wrap, toys, this all contributes to estrogen dominance and endocrine disruption. That doesn't include the amount of estrogen in every fat cell in the body so if you are overweight well, you are also storing estrogen. Then don't forget the phytoestrogens in soy. All included in our estrogen supply, makeup, handcream, should I go on? Our world is full of estrogen, we cant help but be dominated!The high dose progesterone is the "gold standard" now for complex endometrial atypia, for someone who is opting out of hysterectomy. I asked for it in a way because I chose not to get a hysterectomy at 39. In fact I was in one of my oncologists research studies.Liz:I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose y our hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?E

[Guest guest]

Hang on there, what do you mean " If you don't have a uterus you don't

need P " ??? Progesterone is used in many processes in the body, not just to

" protect " (?) the uterus. It's important to keep that in mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone#Biosynthesis

Another thing I'm still curious about after all these years is:

if you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, how do you all know you

actually need to supplement progesterone? Do you test first (if so, how?),

do you go by symptoms (my fav), dose merely because you still have a

uterus, go by heresay or the fear factor, or what?

I ask this stuff because some of you get dreadful symptoms just

supplementing a weeny bit of P. If " I " had those types of symptoms when

supplementing P, it means that " I " am overdosing myself.

FWIW, I've been without my uterus/ovaries since 1973 and dose my

transdermal BHRT entirely by symptoms.

Sam

(great granny of a 2yr old)

=====

> Gael,

>

> If you don't have a uterus you don't need P. And the patch won't hurt you

> because it is bio-identical and bio-equivalant. In fact, it fills in the

> receptors that xeno-estrogens try to take over causing all kinds of

> problems.

> If someone still has a uterus, it is also possible to use a low level of

> estradiol patch without progesterone or take it every 3 or 4 months for 11

> days.

> I would love to get on that kind of protocol eventually. We'll see.

>

> Thanks so much for sharing your story. It blesses me.

>

> Sherese

[Guest guest]

Liz:

Dr. Lee's form of progesterone was not the same as taking a synthetic

progesterone cream. I met Dr. Lee and his wife before he died. Natural

progesterone is nothing like synthetic. I was told that the transdermal is

difficult to regulate, hard to tell how much is getting into your body. It may

of gave you all those symptoms and did not do a darn thing for the uterus. The

megase always eliminated the complex atypia for me. Checked by 6 D and C's.

The oncologists did say that some people do not respond to progesterone. Like I

said before everyone is different, everyone's cells are different and have

different receptors. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. They

gave you high doses post hysterectomy because cells travel and I guess they were

trying to get to any cells that got away. That is why I took this round of the

megase, not to cure anything just to get any cells that got away. Cancer is not

local ever, it is always systemic.

Good thing that our body fights it all the time. It sounds like your body gave

a good fight! I have also come against a lot of opposition from gynos. They

have no idea what uterine cancer is all about. Yes you were too young for this

in a textbook but don't they know you are not a text book. The same thing

happened to Fran Drescher, she was misdiagnosed for so long she had stage 4

cells by the time they did a biopsy. Why because she was too young. She had

all the symptoms and hashimoto's thyroiditis which should of been the biggest

clue to them.

Liz, you said this was 7 years ago? Sounds like the same time that I was

diagnosed. I am convinced that most people walk around with this and do not

know it and nothing happens to them. Well at least 60% of them. I am not sure

if you kept your ovaries or didn't, that is unclear. Yes hormones are very

powerful and because we cannot regulate them just take them after we lose the

organs that make them, we are screwed. It is either too much , too little, I am

not looking forward to this at all!

I don't know how you took this for 7 years. Like I said I took it for 3 months

at a time. I am not 100% sure I should do it at all. I hate doing things out of

fear.

E

>

>

> >

> >

> > Liz:

> > I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am

> > enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at

least

> > for a while, not sure what will be effective.

> > Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I

do

> > not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of

> > hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the

uterus

> > for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist

says,

> > I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not

be

> > able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist

> > said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the

exposure

> > to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months

> > religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the

> > estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with

> > letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face,

> > look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not

> > so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you

> > lose your hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is

the

> > big thing she said, " If you were my sister I would tell you it is time. "

> >

> > Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the

> > complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never

smoked,

> > never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to

> > obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be

honest,

> > I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is

causing

> > this rapid cell turnover with errors.

> >

> > The great thing is that I am really " healthy " in spite of all this. I have

> > heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this

drug

> > but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on

the

> > drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones

are

> > within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that

but

> > after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to

an

> > endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the

very

> > low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within

normal

> > limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely

able

> > to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical

> > which it might be my thyroid is fine.

> >

> > Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat

> > for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in

> > fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants

> > and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take

a

> > variety of supplements.

> >

> > So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a

> > rapid fashion without symptoms?

> >

> > E

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> Liz Vernand

> Channel Islands Sportfishing Center

> 4151 S. Ave.

> Oxnard, CA 93035

> http://channelislandssportfishing.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I”m on the other side but not doing well, ha!!!

But it is what it is and am blessed with all the lessons I keep getting to learn. :-)))))))

Liz

Thank you, Liz.

Also thank you for putting your story here. What a wild ride all of that had to be! I'm so happy that you came out the other side and that you are here now and doing well.

Gael

Love your response, Gael!

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherese,

You must have me confused with someone else, because what you said below is precisely what I said in my long post!

Best to you,

Gael

Gael,

If you don't have a uterus you don't need P. And the patch won't hurt you because it is bio-identical and bio-equivalant. In fact, it fills in the receptors that xeno-estrogens try to take over causing all kinds of problems. If someone still has a uterus, it is also possible to use a low level of estradiol patch without progesterone or take it every 3 or 4 months for 11 days. I would love to get on that kind of protocol eventually. We'll see.

Thanks so much for sharing your story. It blesses me.

Sherese

To: rhythmicliving Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 10:37:06 PMSubject: Re: Megase

I am still afraid of the P, Nora. The last time I tried it, I used a minis cule amount and it sent me into spells of vertigo that last for weeks.

Many reputable doctors and scientists say that the body has no need of P after menopause and without a uterus. I just don't know. I am two for two on that one but I know that some people on this list feel better when they use a bit of P. We are all so different. I'm so happy that it works for you and that you feel great using it sparingly. I wish I did!

Gael

Hi Gael,

This is also my understanding.

I've been using estradiol in olive oil or the Vivelle .1 patch (when travelling) and both have been working really well for me. I use a tiny amount of progesterone 3 days per month. I find that the progesterone in a small amount helps flip a 'switch' which is how I think feel like hormones cycle. I feel great after the switch!

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:39:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <rhythmicliving >Subject: Re: Megase

Hi, I appreciate your long reply. I am not good at expressing myself in writing but here is my "take" on my situation.

Xeno-estrogens lock into the receptors that estradiol would normally fill. When those receptors are filled with estradiol the xenos can't so easily take hold. That is how I understand what various members here have expressed, taken from what they have read that was written by reputable scientists and researchers. Saying one is estrogen dominant by virtue of having xeno-estrogens using up the receptors that estradiol should occupy is like saying one's low blood sugar was caused from eating too much protein. It wasn't, it was caused by eating too much 'sugar' in the form of denatured food. The real solution is giving the body the 'food' it needs, the food it makes itself when it has the right materials. Estradiol is an endogenous hormone that the body makes, not a hormone that is like the hormone like substances in xeno-estrogens. Those hormones are parasites that pervert what the body was meant to do with real estrogens. Supplying estradiol, IF NEEDED, helps to normalize the body.

I am sorry if the above isn't clear. As I said, I am not good with words!

As for my situation - I was 55 when I had my uterus removed due to bleeding off and on for a couple of years. I had not gone through menopause yet. I believe the bleeding started because I erroneously believed the myth of estrogen dominance and I used progesterone to try to stop the supposed 'dominance'. BIG MISTAKE. I believe it was the progesterone that induced the complex hyperplasia with atypia that was found. I had a good woman gyn who told me that chances were it would NOT progress to cancer, but she said it might. I chose, after agonizing over it for months, to have the surgery. She suggested that I leave my ovaries in, as they do continue to produce hormones even after menopause and even after hysterectomy, and not only estrogens. They also produce some small amount of progesterone and testosterone and probably other hormones that we don't really even know about yet. The recent studies show that women who retain their ovaries after hysterectomy have better outcomes re heart disease, etc. So they obviously are not 'killed' by hysterectomy. I don't believe mine were, and an ultrasound seemed to show that a couple of years after the surgery. They were not tiny and withered, as they would have been had they 'died'.

I did read some interesting articles about strict veganism at times being a hindrance to fertility? Of course many vegan women have no problem with fertility whatever, but many do. We are all very different and have different chemical requirements. The best advice I ever heard was by a spiritual teacher, who said to eat what you crave, so long as it is a healthy food, and as unadulterated as possible. IOW, listen to what your body is telling you it needs. For you that may be a strictly vegan diet. For others, perhaps not.

I now use Vivelle dot .075 and am very happy with it.

Best to you,

Gael

I want to thank those of you that were kind enough to read my post be so sympathetic and supportive. I truly appreciate your time and opinions.I would like to delve a bit deeper and answer some of your questions about my situation. I would also like to ask some questions and make my own comments about your posts that I find intriguing. Point of reference, Please do not misinterpret any of my questions. I am truly fascinated by the diversity of experiences many of you had.Gael, and all of you, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Please note that you do not have to answer any of my questions but I was really interested at what age you were diagnosed with complex endometrial hyperplasia with atypia. Did they find it post menopausal after you took estradiol? You said that you feel much better, I have no symptoms from this condition, I never had any symptoms except for one episode of bleeding between menstruation. In fact my menstruation was always quite "normal". The research is pretty diverse when it comes to oophorectomy. Some researchers say not to take the ovaries, that women who are premenopausal will still get some hormones from the ovaries and that the mortality rate from an oophorectomy premenopausal is 170% more than women who did not have their ovaries removed. I assume that there is a much higher risk of heart disease, and osteoporosis, however they are not clear on how this number came to be. Still and WOW that is a big number. Most doctors feel that can be mitigated by hormone replacement or so they say. Here is my issue, although ovarian cancer is such a low risk, I do know for a fact that many times the ovaries shut down immediately, the blood supply and nerve supply is cut when the uterus is removed so within two years the ovaries will shut down anyway. I also read studies that the side effects of surgical menopause are the same whether you take out your ovaries or not. Now every person is different since we a ll have different blood supply, different nerve supplies and different surgeons, we will likely have different experiences. I do know that the ovaries are not "stupid" it knows there is no uterus there, it will stop producing hormones to build the endometrium. I hope that explains why they want to remove my ovaries WS. (Oh and the other opinions, oh yes I got them, they had no idea what I had 6 years ago, never heard of it, even at Sloan Kettering and their opinion was total hysterectomy immediately, but then again they were men)Not "believing" in estrogen dominance is puzzling to me. I am not sure what you would call gynecomastia (breasts) in young boys, young girls menstruating at 10 and younger etc. This is from the bombardment of hormones fed to animals, and what is found in milk. If you were born in the 60's odds are your mother fed you out of a disposable playtex nurser, made out of plastic and loaded with xenoestrogens, they weren't BPA free at the time. All the tupperware, plastic wrap, toys, this all contributes to estrogen dominance and endocrine disruption. That doesn't include the amount of estrogen in every fat cell in the body so if you are overweight well, you are also storing estrogen. Then don't forget the phytoestrogens in soy. All included in our estrogen supply, makeup, handcream, should I go on? Our world is full of estrogen, we cant help but be dominated!The high dose progesterone is the "gold standard" now for complex endometrial atypia, for someone who is opting out of hysterectomy. I asked for it in a way because I chose not to get a hysterectomy at 39. In fact I was in one of my oncologists research studies.Liz:I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least for a while, not sure what will be effective.Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says, I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face, look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you lose y our hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked, never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest, I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing this rapid cell turnover with errors.The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical which it might be my thyroid is fine.Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a variety of supplements.So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a rapid fashion without symptoms?E

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam, so good to see you back!

What I meant is that there is NO NEED for any MD to RX P if you don't have a uterus. I keep repeating over and over that we are all different chemically and some of us will need a little of this, that and the other that others may not need.

I have tried very tiny amounts of P and just can't tolerate it at all. I don't have a uterus. I had the same results with P when I did have a uterus. Either I am making enough on my own, or my body at this point in my life doesn't require it, or very little of it. My tested levels of P are very very low, about .05.

I also believe in dosing by symptoms, but sometimes it's very hard to figure out just where the symptoms are coming from.

Gael

Hang on there, what do you mean "If you don't have a uterus you don'tneed P"??? Progesterone is used in many processes in the body, not just to"protect"(?) the uterus. It's important to keep that in mind.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone#BiosynthesisAnother thing I'm still curious about after all these years is:if you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, how do you all know youactually need to supplement progesterone? Do you test first (if so, how?),do you go by symptoms (my fav), dose merely because you still have auterus, go by heresay or the fear factor, or what?I ask this stuff because some of you get dreadful symptoms justsupplementing a weeny bit of P. If "I" had those types of symptoms whensupplementing P, it means that "I" am overdosing myself.FWIW, I've been without my uterus/ovaries since 1973 and dose mytransdermal BHRT entirely by symptoms.Sam(great granny of a 2yr old)=====> Gael,>> If you don't have a uterus you don't need P. And the patch won't hurt you> because it is bio-identical and bio-equivalant. In fact, it fills in the> receptors that xeno-estrogens try to take over causing all kinds of> problems.> If someone still has a uterus, it is also possible to use a low level of> estradiol patch without progesterone or take it every 3 or 4 months for 11> days.> I would love to get on that kind of protocol eventually. We'll see.>> Thanks so much for sharing your story. It blesses me.>> Sherese

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Why did you take a synthetic form of progesterone, if you believe as you say below.

The Wiley Protocol only uses natural P, and causes untold misery.

Gael

Liz:Dr. Lee's form of progesterone was not the same as taking a synthetic progesterone cream. I met Dr. Lee and his wife before he died. Natural progesterone is nothing like synthetic. I was told that the transdermal is difficult to regulate, hard to tell how much is getting into your body. It may of gave you all those symptoms and did not do a darn thing for the uterus. The megase always eliminated the complex atypia for me. Checked by 6 D and C's. The oncologists did say that some people do not respond to progesterone. Like I said before everyone is different, everyone's cells are different and have different receptors. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. They gave you high doses post hysterectomy because cells travel and I guess they were trying to get to any cells that got away. That is why I took this round of the megase, not to cure anything just to get any cells that got away. Cancer is not local ever, it is always systemic.Good thing that our body fights it all the time. It sounds like your body gave a good fight! I have also come against a lot of opposition from gynos. They have no idea what uterine cancer is all about. Yes you were too young for this in a textbook but don't they know you are not a text book. The same thing happened to Fran Drescher, she was misdiagnosed for so long she had stage 4 cells by the time they did a biopsy. Why because she was too young. She had all the symptoms and hashimoto's thyroiditis which should of been the biggest clue to them.Liz, you said this was 7 years ago? Sounds like the same time that I was diagnosed. I am convinced that most people walk around with this and do not know it and nothing happens to them. Well at least 60% of them. I am not sure if you kept your ovaries or didn't, that is unclear. Yes hormones are very powerful and because we cannot regulate them just take them after we lose the organs that make them, we are screwed. It is either too much , too little, I am not looking forward to this at all!I don't know how you took this for 7 years. Like I said I took it for 3 months at a time. I am not 100% sure I should do it at all. I hate doing things out of fear.E> > > > > > > > Liz:> > I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am> > enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least> > for a while, not sure what will be effective.> > Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do> > not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of> > hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus> > for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says,> > I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be> > able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist> > said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure> > to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months> > religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the> > estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with> > letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face,> > look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not> > so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you> > lose your hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the> > big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."> > > > Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the> > complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked,> > never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to> > obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest,> > I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing> > this rapid cell turnover with errors.> > > > The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have> > heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug> > but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the> > drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are> > within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but> > after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an> > endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very> > low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal> > limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able> > to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical> > which it might be my thyroid is fine.> > > > Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat> > for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in> > fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants> > and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a> > variety of supplements.> > > > So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a> > rapid fashion without symptoms?> > > > E> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Liz Vernand> Channel Islands Sportfishing Center> 4151 S. Ave.> Oxnard, CA 93035> http://channelislandssportfishing.com/>

[Guest guest]

Dear E,

Complex hyperplasia with atypia is NOT cancer. Why did you take the Megase? I am very confused by your experience!

I hope whatever course you decide on, it comes out well for you!

Going silent for now,

Gael

Liz:Dr. Lee's form of progesterone was not the same as taking a synthetic progesterone cream. I met Dr. Lee and his wife before he died. Natural progesterone is nothing like synthetic. I was told that the transdermal is difficult to regulate, hard to tell how much is getting into your body. It may of gave you all those symptoms and did not do a darn thing for the uterus. The megase always eliminated the complex atypia for me. Checked by 6 D and C's. The oncologists did say that some people do not respond to progesterone. Like I said before everyone is different, everyone's cells are different and have different receptors. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. They gave you high doses post hysterectomy because cells travel and I guess they were trying to get to any cells that got away. That is why I took this round of the megase, not to cure anything just to get any cells that got away. Cancer is not local ever, it is always systemic.Good thing that our body fights it all the time. It sounds like your body gave a good fight! I have also come against a lot of opposition from gynos. They have no idea what uterine cancer is all about. Yes you were too young for this in a textbook but don't they know you are not a text book. The same thing happened to Fran Drescher, she was misdiagnosed for so long she had stage 4 cells by the time they did a biopsy. Why because she was too young. She had all the symptoms and hashimoto's thyroiditis which should of been the biggest clue to them.Liz, you said this was 7 years ago? Sounds like the same time that I was diagnosed. I am convinced that most people walk around with this and do not know it and nothing happens to them. Well at least 60% of them. I am not sure if you kept your ovaries or didn't, that is unclear. Yes hormones are very powerful and because we cannot regulate them just take them after we lose the organs that make them, we are screwed. It is either too much , too little, I am not looking forward to this at all!I don't know how you took this for 7 years. Like I said I took it for 3 months at a time. I am not 100% sure I should do it at all. I hate doing things out of fear.E> > > > > > > > Liz:> > I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am> > enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least> > for a while, not sure what will be effective.> > Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do> > not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of> > hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus> > for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says,> > I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be> > able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist> > said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure> > to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months> > religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the> > estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with> > letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face,> > look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not> > so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you> > lose your hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the> > big thing she said, "If you were my sister I would tell you it is time."> > > > Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the> > complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked,> > never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to> > obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest,> > I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing> > this rapid cell turnover with errors.> > > > The great thing is that I am really "healthy" in spite of all this. I have> > heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug> > but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the> > drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are> > within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but> > after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an> > endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very> > low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal> > limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able> > to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical> > which it might be my thyroid is fine.> > > > Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat> > for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in> > fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants> > and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a> > variety of supplements.> > > > So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a> > rapid fashion without symptoms?> > > > E> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Liz Vernand> Channel Islands Sportfishing Center> 4151 S. Ave.> Oxnard, CA 93035> http://channelislandssportfishing.com/>

[Guest guest]

I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still recovering

from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated

esophagus...

And speaking of symptoms, I certainly had a lot of them, but had no idea

they pointed to a growing and potentially deadly ulcer. But now that I've

deciphered what those symptoms mean, I can now seek appropriate help if it

happens again. That's sort of the way I learned how to decipher my own

unique symptoms of sex hormone deprivation.

Sam

=====

> Hi Sam, so good to see you back!

>

> What I meant is that there is NO NEED for any MD to RX P if you don't have

> a uterus. I keep repeating over and over that we are all different

> chemically and some of us will need a little of this, that and the other

> that

> others may not need.

>

> I have tried very tiny amounts of P and just can't tolerate it at all. I

> don't have a uterus. I had the same results with P when I did have a

> uterus. Either I am making enough on my own, or my body at this point in

> my

> life doesn't require it, or very little of it. My tested levels of P are

> very

> very low, about .05.

>

> I also believe in dosing by symptoms, but sometimes it's very hard to

> figure out just where the symptoms are coming from.

>

> Gael

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2012 10:11:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> k9gang@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Hang on there, what do you mean " If you don't have a uterus you don't

> need P " ??? Progesterone is used in many processes in the body, not just

> to

> " protect " (?) the uterus. It's important to keep that in mind.

> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone)

> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone#Biosynthesis)

>

> Another thing I'm still curious about after all these years is:

> if you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, how do you all know you

> actually need to supplement progesterone? Do you test first (if so,

> how?),

> do you go by symptoms (my fav), dose merely because you still have a

> uterus, go by heresay or the fear factor, or what?

>

> I ask this stuff because some of you get dreadful symptoms just

> supplementing a weeny bit of P. If " I " had those types of symptoms when

> supplementing P, it means that " I " am overdosing myself.

>

> FWIW, I've been without my uterus/ovaries since 1973 and dose my

> transdermal BHRT entirely by symptoms.

>

> Sam

> (great granny of a 2yr old)

>

> =====

>> Gael,

>>

>> If you don't have a uterus you don't need P.

[Guest guest]

Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't know you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're recovered/recovering!

Gael

I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still recoveringfrom a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulceratedesophagus...And speaking of symptoms, I certainly had a lot of them, but had no ideathey pointed to a growing and potentially deadly ulcer. But now that I'vedeciphered what those symptoms mean, I can now seek appropriate help if ithappens again. That's sort of the way I learned how to decipher my ownunique symptoms of sex hormone deprivation.Sam=====> Hi Sam, so good to see you back!>> What I meant is that there is NO NEED for any MD to RX P if you don't have> a uterus. I keep repeating over and over that we are all different> chemically and some of us will need a little of this, that and the other> that> others may not need.>> I have tried very tiny amounts of P and just can't tolerate it at all. I> don't have a uterus. I had the same results with P when I did have a> uterus. Either I am making enough on my own, or my body at this point in> my> life doesn't require it, or very little of it. My tested levels of P are> very> very low, about .05.>> I also believe in dosing by symptoms, but sometimes it's very hard to> figure out just where the symptoms are coming from.>> Gael>>>>> >>>>> Hang on there, what do you mean "If you don't have a uterus you don't> need P"??? Progesterone is used in many processes in the body, not just> to> "protect"(?) the uterus. It's important to keep that in mind.> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone)> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone#Biosynthesis)>> Another thing I'm still curious about after all these years is:> if you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, how do you all know you> actually need to supplement progesterone? Do you test first (if so,> how?),> do you go by symptoms (my fav), dose merely because you still have a> uterus, go by heresay or the fear factor, or what?>> I ask this stuff because some of you get dreadful symptoms just> supplementing a weeny bit of P. If "I" had those types of symptoms when> supplementing P, it means that "I" am overdosing myself.>> FWIW, I've been without my uterus/ovaries since 1973 and dose my> transdermal BHRT entirely by symptoms.>> Sam> (great granny of a 2yr old)>> =====>> Gael,>>>> If you don't have a uterus you don't need P.

[Guest guest]

<grin>

I didn't know I had that either.

And then there were these 3 wide eyed excited doctors (like a bunch of 8yr

olds) standing at the foot of my bed in the ICU telling me " I " am the

biggest duodenal ulcer they'd ever seen in their lives. I didn't know I

was an ulcer...I thought I was just a bratty grandma.

Sam

=====

> Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't know

> you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're recovered/recovering!

>

> Gael

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2012 5:48:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> k9gang@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still recovering

> from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated

> esophagus...

[Guest guest]

When I worked in the medical field, I quickly learned that they do see people as organs and syndromes.

I bet they loved you, though.

Gael

<grin>I didn't know I had that either.And then there were these 3 wide eyed excited doctors (like a bunch of 8yrolds) standing at the foot of my bed in the ICU telling me "I" am thebiggest duodenal ulcer they'd ever seen in their lives. I didn't know Iwas an ulcer...I thought I was just a bratty grandma.Sam =====> Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't know> you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're recovered/recovering!>> Gael>>> >>>>> I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still recovering> from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated> esophagus...

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

I actually had endometrial cancer 13 years ago (at the age of 39) I never used synthetic progesterone nor will I ever, even if I did get cancer. I’ve only ever used compounded bio identical prescription transdermal cream. For about 9 months, 2 weeks each cycle. That was pre hyst and what I think contributed to getting cancer or the complete cause.

The second time I used it post hyst/cancer was because I went on the Wiley Protocol and the protocol is high dose of compounded bio identical P as part of that protocol. Again, 2 weeks of each cycle. I went on the Wiley Protocol to manage my surgical meno symptoms. Never was any post hyst/cancer hormone treatment ever to inhibit or stop or reverse cancer. There was never any need to as I was cured the second they took out my uterus and the type of cancer I had supposedly does not metastasis. The WP people spout the need for P even without your uterus to prevent cancer. Fear tactics. I’m not saying women don’t need it, but some just don’t do well on it.

I feel even if we have our organs, trying to balance hormones is just as hard. Knowing what I know now and what I’ve gone through, I can’t even imagine why a dr would torture a woman with Megace to prevent possible pre cancer . I know you said it was your choice and I understand not wanting to lose any organs but sometimes the chemical treatments are much worse than a surgery. Sometimes not. So your dr says, if you get cancer, she will have to give you chemo and possible radiation that will make you sick, but the way I see it, you were given poison that made you sick. That just doesn’t make sense. But you don’t know what you are getting into until you are in and then can make another choice.

I hope that you don’t have to use it again.

Liz

Liz:

Dr. Lee's form of progesterone was not the same as taking a synthetic progesterone cream. I met Dr. Lee and his wife before he died. Natural progesterone is nothing like synthetic. I was told that the transdermal is difficult to regulate, hard to tell how much is getting into your body. It may of gave you all those symptoms and did not do a darn thing for the uterus. The megase always eliminated the complex atypia for me. Checked by 6 D and C's. The oncologists did say that some people do not respond to progesterone. Like I said before everyone is different, everyone's cells are different and have different receptors. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. They gave you high doses post hysterectomy because cells travel and I guess they were trying to get to any cells that got away. That is why I took this round of the megase, not to cure anything just to get any cells that got away. Cancer is not local ever, it is always systemic.

Good thing that our body fights it all the time. It sounds like your body gave a good fight! I have also come against a lot of opposition from gynos. They have no idea what uterine cancer is all about. Yes you were too young for this in a textbook but don't they know you are not a text book. The same thing happened to Fran Drescher, she was misdiagnosed for so long she had stage 4 cells by the time they did a biopsy. Why because she was too young. She had all the symptoms and hashimoto's thyroiditis which should of been the biggest clue to them.

Liz, you said this was 7 years ago? Sounds like the same time that I was diagnosed. I am convinced that most people walk around with this and do not know it and nothing happens to them. Well at least 60% of them. I am not sure if you kept your ovaries or didn't, that is unclear. Yes hormones are very powerful and because we cannot regulate them just take them after we lose the organs that make them, we are screwed. It is either too much , too little, I am not looking forward to this at all!

I don't know how you took this for 7 years. Like I said I took it for 3 months at a time. I am not 100% sure I should do it at all. I hate doing things out of fear.

E

>

>

> >

> >

> > Liz:

> > I am so glad to hear that surgical menopause was not as bad as what I am

> > enduring now. I did talk to my oncologist about hormone replacement at least

> > for a while, not sure what will be effective.

> > Liz I am not sure how they diagnosed you with endometrial cancer. Since I do

> > not have cancer as far as they know, they staging is done at the time of

> > hysterectomy. I actually did what you said, the keeping the eye on the uterus

> > for 6 years. I am very conscious of everything and even the oncologist says,

> > I have no idea how you seem to catch it every time, she said she would not be

> > able to even in herself. I have had 6 D and C's, eventually the oncologist

> > said look I am not happy doing this constantly mostly because of the exposure

> > to the anesthesia, so a biopsy will have to do. I go every six months

> > religiously. It has returned 4 times in six years (once because of the

> > estrodiol in the fertility meds. The oncologist is not comfortable with

> > letting this go on but it is my choice. She told me, with a straight face,

> > look, this I can cure, if you have cancer, or it turns into cancer, I am not

> > so sure I can cure it and then I have to give you chemo that will make you

> > lose your hair, make you very very sick and maybe even radiation. Here is the

> > big thing she said, " If you were my sister I would tell you it is time. "

> >

> > Now realize, it is the constant estrogen dominance that contributed to the

> > complex atypia, along with the fact that I never had children, I never smoked,

> > never took birth control pills and I have a very high genetic disposition to

> > obesity, although I was obese a very small portion of my life. To be honest,

> > I have a very highly stressed life and I think that is most of what is causing

> > this rapid cell turnover with errors.

> >

> > The great thing is that I am really " healthy " in spite of all this. I have

> > heard of women who had to quit their jobs and stay in bed because of this drug

> > but I work three jobs. Don't ask me how. I have actually lost weight on the

> > drug (well the third time, not this time) and I am glad to say my hormones are

> > within normal levels. I do think my adrenals are shot, megase can do that but

> > after the second round, that was after the fertility treatments, I went to an

> > endocrinologist specifically to check my cortisol levels. It was at the very

> > low end in fact was on the low end and he said well it is still within normal

> > limits, what do you want me to do, as I crawled out of his office barely able

> > to walk. So thanks for the hormone tips K9 but unless it is sub-clinical

> > which it might be my thyroid is fine.

> >

> > Now ladies please understand I have also been a vegan for 15 years, no wheat

> > for 10 years and no soy for 6 years. Oh and I am not a junk food vegan, in

> > fact everything that goes into my mouth is for a reason mostly antioxidants

> > and anti carcinogenic substances. So that might be part of it. I also take a

> > variety of supplements.

> >

> > So has anyone successfully eliminated progesterone from their bodies in a

> > rapid fashion without symptoms?

> >

> > E

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> Liz Vernand

> Channel Islands Sportfishing Center

> 4151 S. Ave.

> Oxnard, CA 93035

> http://channelislandssportfishing.com/

>

Liz Vernand

Channel Islands Sportfishing Center

4151 S. Ave.

Oxnard, CA 93035

http://channelislandssportfishing.com/

[Guest guest]

I have a list of syndromes........... Ha!!

Sam, what does a duodenal ulcer feel like? I have bile reflux and burn everywhere.

Liz

When I worked in the medical field, I quickly learned that they do see people as organs and syndromes.

I bet they loved you, though.

Gael

<grin>

I didn't know I had that either.

And then there were these 3 wide eyed excited doctors (like a bunch of 8yr

olds) standing at the foot of my bed in the ICU telling me " I " am the

biggest duodenal ulcer they'd ever seen in their lives. I didn't know I

was an ulcer...I thought I was just a bratty grandma.

Sam

=====

> Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't know

> you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're recovered/recovering!

>

> Gael

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2012 5:48:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> k9gang@... <mailto:k9gang%40openaccess.org> writes:

>

>

>

>

> I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still recovering

> from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated

> esophagus...

[Guest guest]

Pain under the right ribs at the bottom, and burning between the boobs

when swallowing, plus inability to digest or keep food down. Black tarry

stools and vomiting blood and spitting up bloody phlegm are danger signs

to call an ambulance. I also had massive adrenal symptoms.

I'm taking Prilosec twice daily plus liquid Carafate so I can eat and

drink. I can't keep stuff down without that crap for the time being.

I hate pills and medicine, but I have a hottie gastroenterologist.

Sam

=====

> I have a list of syndromes........... Ha!!

> Sam, what does a duodenal ulcer feel like? I have bile reflux and burn

> everywhere.

> Liz

>

>

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> When I worked in the medical field, I quickly learned that they do see

>> people

>> as organs and syndromes.

>>

>> I bet they loved you, though.

>>

>> Gael

>>

>>

>> In a message dated 6/28/2012 6:07:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

>> k9gang@... writes:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> <grin>

>>>

>>> I didn't know I had that either.

>>>

>>> And then there were these 3 wide eyed excited doctors (like a bunch of

>>> 8yr

>>> olds) standing at the foot of my bed in the ICU telling me " I " am the

>>> biggest duodenal ulcer they'd ever seen in their lives. I didn't know

>>> I

>>> was an ulcer...I thought I was just a bratty grandma.

>>>

>>> Sam

>>>

>>> =====

>>>> > Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't

>>>> know

>>>> > you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're

>>>> recovered/recovering!

>>>> >

>>>> > Gael

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > In a message dated 6/28/2012 5:48:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

>>>> > k9gang@... <mailto:k9gang%40openaccess.org> writes:

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still

>>>> recovering

>>>> > from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated

>>>> > esophagus...

>>>

>>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, good to know! Maybe I should head your way to visit your GI doc! :-)

I hope you feel better soon! I know the misery of GI stuff. I live with it 24/7.

The pills are not forever :-)))

Pain under the right ribs at the bottom, and burning between the boobs

when swallowing, plus inability to digest or keep food down. Black tarry

stools and vomiting blood and spitting up bloody phlegm are danger signs

to call an ambulance. I also had massive adrenal symptoms.

I'm taking Prilosec twice daily plus liquid Carafate so I can eat and

drink. I can't keep stuff down without that crap for the time being.

I hate pills and medicine, but I have a hottie gastroenterologist.

Sam

=====

> I have a list of syndromes........... Ha!!

> Sam, what does a duodenal ulcer feel like? I have bile reflux and burn

> everywhere.

> Liz

>

>

> On 6/28/12 6:25 PM, " gaelgreen@... <mailto:gaelgreen%40aol.com> " <gaelgreen@... <mailto:gaelgreen%40aol.com> > wrote:

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> When I worked in the medical field, I quickly learned that they do see

>> people

>> as organs and syndromes.

>>

>> I bet they loved you, though.

>>

>> Gael

>>

>>

>> In a message dated 6/28/2012 6:07:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

>> k9gang@... <mailto:k9gang%40openaccess.org> writes:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> <grin>

>>>

>>> I didn't know I had that either.

>>>

>>> And then there were these 3 wide eyed excited doctors (like a bunch of

>>> 8yr

>>> olds) standing at the foot of my bed in the ICU telling me " I " am the

>>> biggest duodenal ulcer they'd ever seen in their lives. I didn't know

>>> I

>>> was an ulcer...I thought I was just a bratty grandma.

>>>

>>> Sam

>>>

>>> =====

>>>> > Sam, it's so good to see you again, that's what I meant. I didn't

>>>> know

>>>> > you had a bleeding ulcer. Yow. So glad you're

>>>> recovered/recovering!

>>>> >

>>>> > Gael

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > In a message dated 6/28/2012 5:48:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

>>>> > k9gang@... <mailto:k9gang%40openaccess.org> <mailto:k9gang%40openaccess.org> writes:

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > I wasn't gone, I just had nothing much to say - sort of still

>>>> recovering

>>>> > from a Godzilla sized bleeding duodenal ulcer and a 50% ulcerated

>>>> > esophagus...

>>>

>>>

>

>

Liz Vernand

Channel Islands Sportfishing Center

4151 S. Ave.

Oxnard, CA 93035

http://channelislandssportfishing.com/