Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

August 18, 2012

Less than 24-26 clinical face to face hrs per week for my carrier. rs differ

Anyone know what is considered part-time or half-time for malpractice insurance?

Steve

stown

>

> Hi all,

>

> As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

>

> I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community!

>

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

>

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

>

> Lori Richer

>

> FP in NH

>

August 18, 2012

My carrier is NJ Pure, 20 hours or less is PT. i love them they've been a pleasure to deal with. I think they may be a mutual company but not sure.Deborah Ginsburg, MDHealing Oceans Family Wellness Center Helping Families Thrivewww.healing-oceans.com Sent from my iPad

Less than 24-26 clinical face to face hrs per week for my carrier. rs differ

Anyone know what is considered part-time or half-time for malpractice insurance?

Steve

stown

>

> Hi all,

>

> As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

>

> I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community!

>

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

>

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

>

> Lori Richer

>

> FP in NH

>

August 18, 2012

Mine is less than 20-21 patient contact hours.Sharon McCoy MD

Renaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com

My carrier is NJ Pure, 20 hours or less is PT. i love them they've been a pleasure to deal with. I think they may be a mutual company but not sure.Deborah Ginsburg, MDHealing Oceans Family Wellness Center

Helping Families Thrivewww.healing-oceans.com Sent from my iPad

Less than 24-26 clinical face to face hrs per week for my carrier. rs differ

Anyone know what is considered part-time or half-time for malpractice insurance?

Steve

stown

>

> Hi all,

>

> As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

>

> I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community!

>

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

>

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

>

> Lori Richer

>

> FP in NH

>

August 19, 2012

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?Frederick Elliott, MDBuffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA

(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insurance

and that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower with

CNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!

Get all your discounts!!

Pamela Wible, MD

3575 St. #220

Eugene, OR 97405

www.idealmedicalcare.org

"(S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope."

~ Coleridge

>

> Hi all,

> As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

> I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community!

>

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

>

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

>

> Lori Richer

> FP in NH

>

August 19, 2012

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy " nose " coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year.

Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA

(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insurance

and that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower with

CNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!

Get all your discounts!!

Pamela Wible, MD

3575 St. #220

Eugene, OR 97405

www.idealmedicalcare.org

" (S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope. "

~ Coleridge

>

> Hi all,

> As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

> I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community!

>

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

>

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

>

> Lori Richer

> FP in NH

>

August 19, 2012

I purchase tail twice total 22,000 .

Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) .

the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy.

they let me pay 5K gladly.

anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that.

adolfo

To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy "nose" coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year. Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?

Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/"(S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope."~ Coleridge>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition

from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! > > I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. > > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH>

August 19, 2012

Adolfo makes a good point: I found that I did not need a tail if I was going to purchase from the same company.Gordon

I purchase tail twice total 22,000 .

Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) .

the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy.

they let me pay 5K gladly.

anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that.

adolfo

To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy "nose" coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year. Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?

Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/"(S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope."~ Coleridge>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition

from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! > > I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. > > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH>

August 19, 2012

All good thoughts. I'd like to take my existing policy with me when I leave my current employed position. I plan to stay in western NY. Would there be any reason why this couldn't be so easy? Would either my current malpractice carrier and/or employer object to this?Frederick Elliott MDBuffalo, NY

New company will usually fold tail coverage into new coverageAsk themTo: From: zapoyol@...Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:26:00 -0700Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Gordon, I learned if I have the same policy I do not need to purchase tail because my policy was portable.

To: Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Adolfo makes a good point: I found that I did not need a tail if I was going to purchase from the same company.

Gordon

I purchase tail twice total 22,000 .

Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) .

the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy.

they let me pay 5K gladly.

anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that.

adolfo

To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject: Re:

Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy "nose" coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year. Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?

Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/"(S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope."~ Coleridge>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! >

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. > > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH>

August 19, 2012

Frederick,

When I opened my practice I changed my malpractice carrier and start from scratch.

I did not like the one that gladly took my money and forgot to disclose that the polycy was portable so therefore I did not need to buy tail.

My next employer ( 2nd job) continue using my first policy with no problem and then when I left I asked about the tail because the next one ( 3rd job) was not willing to pay for it.

I asked them ( 3rd job) if i could pay my policy they said that I would be paying double since they did not like mine so they will use theirs. Adolfo

To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:03 PMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

All good thoughts. I'd like to take my existing policy with me when I leave my current employed position. I plan to stay in western NY. Would there be any reason why this couldn't be so easy? Would either my current malpractice carrier and/or employer object to this?

Frederick Elliott MD

Buffalo, NY

New company will usually fold tail coverage into new coverageAsk them

To: From: zapoyol@...Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:26:00 -0700Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Gordon, I learned if I have the same policy I do not need to purchase tail because my policy was portable.

To: Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Adolfo makes a good point: I found that I did not need a tail if I was going to purchase from the same company. Gordon

I purchase tail twice total 22,000 .

Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) .

the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy.

they let me pay 5K gladly.

anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that.

adolfo

To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject:

Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy "nose" coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year. Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?

Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/"(S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope."~ Coleridge>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! >

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. > > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH>

August 19, 2012

a new employer will object if they use a different co. and even if not hopsital emlpoyers wowk by paying for the number of malpractice SLOTS It is complex if you were leaving a postion and working for yourslef you could keep the co otherwise don;t count on it I think Why do you care if you are employed? Employers usually pay tails and certainy that is a point to be negotiated with any new job you take It can be that is you leave in one year you pay 80% of the t ail stay for 2 yrs 60% etc.

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Frederick Elliott wrote:

All good thoughts. I'd like to take my existing policy with me when I leave my current employed position. I plan to stay in western NY. Would there be any reason why this couldn't be so easy? Would either my current malpractice carrier and/or employer object to this?

Frederick Elliott MDBuffalo, NY

New company will usually fold tail coverage into new coverageAsk themTo:

From: zapoyol@...Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:26:00 -0700Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Gordon, I learned if I have the same policy I do not need to purchase tail because my policy was portable.

To: Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:10 PM

Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Adolfo makes a good point: I found that I did not need a tail if I was going to purchase from the same company.

Gordon

I purchase tail twice total 22,000 .

Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) .

the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy.

they let me pay 5K gladly.

anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that.

adolfo

To: " " < >

Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject: Re:

Re: newbie ? about malpractice

Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy " nose " coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail.

We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year.

Pratt

Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP?

Frederick Elliott, MD

Buffalo, NY

Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!

Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/

" (S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope. " ~ Coleridge

>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! >

> I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. >

> Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH>

-- MD ph fax

August 19, 2012

There are two kinds of policies: claims made and occurrence. This site gives you the pros and cons and explains the differences. http://www.piam.com/Insurance_Products/claimsmade.html If you have an occurrence policy, no tail is needed. A “claims made” policy can be made retroactive to cover claims made due to an incident before the policy was in place. I am going to ask my company if they have any part-time rates after this conversation though. Kathy Saradarian, MDNJ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:40 PMTo: Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice a new employer will object if they use a different co. and even if not hopsital emlpoyers wowk by paying for the number of malpractice SLOTS It is complex if you were leaving a postion and working for yourslef you could keep the co otherwise don;t count on it I think Why do you care if you are employed? Employers usually pay tails and certainy that is a point to be negotiated with any new job you take It can be that is you leave in one year you pay 80% of the t ail stay for 2 yrs 60% etc.On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Frederick Elliott wrote: All good thoughts. I'd like to take my existing policy with me when I leave my current employed position. I plan to stay in western NY. Would there be any reason why this couldn't be so easy? Would either my current malpractice carrier and/or employer object to this?Frederick Elliott MDBuffalo, NY New company will usually fold tail coverage into new coverageAsk themTo: From: zapoyol@...Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:26:00 -0700Subject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice Gordon, I learned if I have the same policy I do not need to purchase tail because my policy was portable. To: Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice Adolfo makes a good point: I found that I did not need a tail if I was going to purchase from the same company. Gordon I purchase tail twice total 22,000 . Ardiana was not a happy camper when I told her that I needed to put 17,000 in credit care ( we just had paid all of them when I told her) . the previous carrier was not honest because I changed jobs and I used the same carrier , so I did not have to pay for tail if you still using the same carrier and policy. they let me pay 5K gladly. anyway that is part of the learning process when you come out school with no idea about that. adolfo To: " " < > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:03 AMSubject: Re: Re: newbie ? about malpractice Yes...when Steve left his practice in OR, we had to purchase tail insurance. However, since CA has tort reform, it was cheaper for us to buy " nose " coverage here than to buy tail coverage in OR....by less than half! Also, it meant that we didn't have to put out a lump sum for the tail. We switched insurance companies this year to The Doctor's Co because they can handle all of our insurance needs - work comp and business insurance in addition to the med mal, which was about $1000 less per year for the same coverage as what we were previously paying to NorCal (his med mal was running about $80000/ year). WC & Biz Ins are through the same carriers that we already had, so no change in coverage or price there, except that they re-rate everything each year (shop around), which our previous insurer hasn't done, so we hope to see that go down next year. Pratt Good topic. Has anyone had to negotiate the possibility of purchasing potentially expensive tail coverage after leaving an employed position to begin an IMP? Frederick Elliott, MDBuffalo, NY Not suer what companies up there, but I had to join AMA(OMA - Oregon version of AMA) to get on CNA insuranceand that was $250/yr BUT premiums were WAY lower withCNA than others PLUS I get 50% off for part-time practice!!Get all your discounts!!Pamela Wible, MD3575 St. #220 Eugene, OR 97405http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ " (S)He is the best physician who is the most ingenious inspirer of hope. " ~ Coleridge>> Hi all, > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts. > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from hospital-owned to IMP-freedom within the same community! > > I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs have but need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP. > > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego. > > Lori Richer> FP in NH> -- MD ph fax

August 20, 2012

You know, I bought occurrence coverage when I first bought malpractice

coverage and now think it is a great deal financially. I don't seem to

pay anymore than those with claims made and I don't have to worry about

the tail Whenever I get someone offering to beat my malpractice

coverage rate It seems like the hitch is that it is claims made,

usually for very little savings. Is really hard to find claims made

insurance now? Kris

Re: newbie ? about malpractice

This is a good topic discussion. I hadn't even thought about tail

coverage.

Thanks.

Lori

FP in NH

> >

> > Hi all,

> > As a newbie I enjoy following the posts.

> > I'm launching my IMP May 2013. Making the transition from

hospital-owned

> to IMP-freedom within the same community!

> >

> > I would like to get recs about malpractice insurance carrier in New

> England. I looked into The Doctor Company as some other local IMPs

have but

> need to be a member of ACP. I'm not as I'm an FP.

> >

> > Coming to IMP camp from NH! Can't wait to see San Diego.

> >

> > Lori Richer

> > FP in NH

> >

>

> --

>

> MD

>

> ph fax

>

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