Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ellen, You should do a search in the archives of the EOH group- we have talked about them before. They are people with Aspergers or HF autism who believe autism is a personality trait and ABA & Biomed Treatments are bad. Most of us in this group don't agree and have found that it is a waste of precious time arguing with them (ND). We have better things to do- like help our kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Few people here will much much nice to say about that website's proprietor, Kathleen Seidel. > > Hello, > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read the > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > searching for something I came across this web site: > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical of > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about autism and > vaccines I thought was good. > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these be > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they just > sadly mis-informed people? > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > ellen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 well, I should have searched this group before I posted. I see you have had many conversations about this website, and apparently you all think as little of it as I do. I was mostly surprised at it, trying to understand the motives. I don't agree, as someone here said, that they 'have mercury in their brain' and that's why they do what they do. I don't believe they are autistic at all. I think there is another motive. And maybe my first idea is not so far out - that their whole agenda is to discredit groups like this one. They treat autism like a choice, as being gay. It's one thing to say 'I'm gay and I'm proud', and to have gay culture, because a gay person functions just as well or not as any other person. Their ability to get along in society is not related to their being gay. [except for bigots' discrimination against them.] But children with autism, at least the ones I know, are not able to function in society or have difficulty functioning. Not to say they cannot improve, or become high-functioning, or completely fine functioning. Not to say parents of autistic children are ashamed of their children. It is what it is, and parents have to deal with it. But it's hard for me to imagine anyone would wish it upon their child, if they had a choice. ellen > > Hello, > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read the > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > searching for something I came across this web site: > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical of > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about autism and > vaccines I thought was good. > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these be > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they just > sadly mis-informed people? > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > ellen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ellen, I agree with you. I doubt that any high-functioning adult with autism would care what we do or what we say on this list. However, there are individuals and corporations with much at stake regarding vaccines. Not just liability, but potentially huge profits on new vaccines, stock values, etc. Currently, the biotech industry is enormously profitable for investors. > > > > Hello, > > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read the > > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > > searching for something I came across this web site: > > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical of > > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about autism and > > vaccines I thought was good. > > > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these be > > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they just > > sadly mis-informed people? > > > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > > > > ellen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ellen; I'm reposting the link to a picture of one of Neurodiversity's leaders. A picture is worth a thousand words. http://hatingautism.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Hello, > > > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read > the > > > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > > > > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > > > searching for something I came across this web site: > > > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > > > > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical > of > > > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about > autism and > > > vaccines I thought was good. > > > > > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these > be > > > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they > just > > > sadly mis-informed people? > > > > > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > > > > > > > ellen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 You know, as angry as these people can sometimes make me, there are times when I think that they perhaps have a point. I was watching a program on PBS this evening, about a family with five children who all walk on all fours. Apparently there are other instances of this rare disorder around the world, although this is a fact that we only became aware of near the end of the program. For some reason they choose to focus on the muslim family in Syria, and we got to see a lot of different doctors voicing their learned opinions about the oddities. The program ended with a heartwarming picture of Hussein stumbling along on two feet, because, of course, the most important human characteristic is… What? All together now. I’m sure you know the answer. Endeavor? Enterprise? Motivation? Nope. It’s this--the innate human desire to be JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! The program explained to us the father’s desire that his children be able to walk. There wasn’t, however, a moment spent on speculation as to how exactly the ability to walk on two feet rather than four would improve the lives of his children or the lives of the people around him, what it is that they would be able to do that they couldn’t do now. One daughter explained that she’d be happy because then she could dance and get a husband, but that was about as far as the program went into delving into how the children themselves felt about their disability. They were mentally handicapped to various degrees. Perhaps this wouldn’t have mattered, wouldn’t have affected their ability to use a pen or a pencil or a tool with their hands, if they’d been able to gain enough balance to remain on their feet sufficiently long enough and in sufficiently stable a manner. Although I am skeptical, never mind that. Striving is good, I wouldn’t want to argue with that notion. But the point is that these kinds of considerations didn’t seem to be at all a factor. No, it was the mere fact that the man was up, was stumbling along on two feet instead of the usual four, this was all that really seemed to matter. This, in and of itself-- that he was just like everybody else! for a few moments at the end of the program-- seemed to be the only thing of importance. Yes, I think that there are people within the neurodiversity movement who are shills for the pharmaceutical industry. Yes, I think that there are people within the ND movement who aren’t autistic at all (who don’t have autism, who aren’t mercury poisoned, whatever…), or who aren’t terribly autistic, or who have merely made a choice to see themselves as different so that they can then have some difference to be proud about. Yes, I saw myself as having something decidedly wrong with me when I was as young as eight years old; something not different or unique or special, but wrong, something that I have, ever since, wanted to fix. However… For some reason, the program angered me. It’s hard for me to put into words exactly why, but it really, really angered me. I don’t know how well these children managed to function--if they were ever able to gain any degree of independence. However this question didn’t seem to be addressed. The question of how to make them more independent wasn’t the issue. The question of how to make them happier, in any ways unrelated to the way they walk, wasn’t contemplated. The issue seemed to be ‘well people are making fun of them. It would be nice if we could stop that from happening.’ Or, simply, ‘everyone walks on two feet, they need to walk on two feet.’ And so, they needed to change the behavior of the children. And nobody ever suggested that perhaps the behavior of those ‘superior’ bipeds throwing the stones at them for fun might be the ‘faulty’ behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 You know, as angry as these people can sometimes make me, there are times when I think that they perhaps have a point. I was watching a program on PBS this evening, about a family with five children who all walk on all fours. Apparently there are other instances of this rare disorder around the world, although this is a fact that we only became aware of near the end of the program. For some reason they choose to focus on the muslim family in Syria, and we got to see a lot of different doctors voicing their learned opinions about the oddities. The program ended with a heartwarming picture of Hussein stumbling along on two feet, because, of course, the most important human characteristic is… What? All together now. I’m sure you know the answer. Endeavor? Enterprise? Motivation? Nope. It’s this--the innate human desire to be JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! The program explained to us the father’s desire that his children be able to walk. There wasn’t, however, a moment spent on speculation as to how exactly the ability to walk on two feet rather than four would improve the lives of his children or the lives of the people around him, what it is that they would be able to do that they couldn’t do now. One daughter explained that she’d be happy because then she could dance and get a husband, but that was about as far as the program went into delving into how the children themselves felt about their disability. They were mentally handicapped to various degrees. Perhaps this wouldn’t have mattered, wouldn’t have affected their ability to use a pen or a pencil or a tool with their hands, if they’d been able to gain enough balance to remain on their feet sufficiently long enough and in sufficiently stable a manner. Although I am skeptical, never mind that. Striving is good, I wouldn’t want to argue with that notion. But the point is that these kinds of considerations didn’t seem to be at all a factor. No, it was the mere fact that the man was up, was stumbling along on two feet instead of the usual four, this was all that really seemed to matter. This, in and of itself-- that he was just like everybody else! for a few moments at the end of the program-- seemed to be the only thing of importance. Yes, I think that there are people within the neurodiversity movement who are shills for the pharmaceutical industry. Yes, I think that there are people within the ND movement who aren’t autistic at all (who don’t have autism, who aren’t mercury poisoned, whatever…), or who aren’t terribly autistic, or who have merely made a choice to see themselves as different so that they can then have some difference to be proud about. Yes, I saw myself as having something decidedly wrong with me when I was as young as eight years old; something not different or unique or special, but wrong, something that I have, ever since, wanted to fix. However… For some reason, the program angered me. It’s hard for me to put into words exactly why, but it really, really angered me. I don’t know how well these children managed to function--if they were ever able to gain any degree of independence. However this question didn’t seem to be addressed. The question of how to make them more independent wasn’t the issue. The question of how to make them happier, in any ways unrelated to the way they walk, wasn’t contemplated. The issue seemed to be ‘well people are making fun of them. It would be nice if we could stop that from happening.’ Or, simply, ‘everyone walks on two feet, they need to walk on two feet.’ And so, they needed to change the behavior of the children. And nobody ever suggested that perhaps the behavior of those ‘superior’ bipeds throwing the stones at them for fun might be the ‘faulty’ behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I used to get upset about the neurodiverse. I went against a guy who claimed to be a scientist point for point once, and he recanted and apologized. I almost felt guilty because he hasn't posted on his blog since. I don't give these people much attention anymore. I think for the most part, they are people with autism who are being mislead by some malevolent leader. > > Hello, > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read the > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > searching for something I came across this web site: > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical of > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about autism and > vaccines I thought was good. > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these be > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they just > sadly mis-informed people? > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > ellen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 There is an interesting discussion on the OASIS message board regarding how some adults with AS do not feel they find a commonality with the ND groups. Some are simply looking for acceptance and understanding and not advocating for any type of " agenda " . The discussion is located under the debate section, but be forwarned that Barb Kirby is a very conservative moderator. http://forums.delphiforums.com/AspergerOasis/start Also, I always thought that many parents of kids with Asperger's are an untapped source of mercury/autism advocacy - I think some have just not been exposed to some of the " facts " , and are content to obtain " information " about AS from the more conservative authors and forums. I guess the same could be said for many parents of kids with ADHD, asthma, etc. Sorry about the previous message - accidently was sent through before I typed my message. - In EOHarm , " Ed " <fordjohnson38@...> wrote: > > > > I used to get upset about the neurodiverse. I went against a guy who > claimed to be a scientist point for point once, and he recanted and > apologized. I almost felt guilty because he hasn't posted on his > blog since. I don't give these people much attention anymore. I > think for the most part, they are people with autism who are being > mislead by some malevolent leader. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > I've just re-joined this list, I was on it before, and I've read > the > > book, EOH, which seems to make a compelling case to me. > > > > I'm fairly well educated about autism, as a layperson. When I was > > searching for something I came across this web site: > > http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html > > > > Are other people familiar with the site? It's not only critical of > > Kirby but also of Kennedy, whose article about autism > and > > vaccines I thought was good. > > > > I was wondering, call me a conspiracy-theorist, but could these be > > vaccine-manufacturers in drag, or their advocates, or are they just > > sadly mis-informed people? > > > > Would like to know others' take on this site. > > > > > > ellen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity ADHD_Bulletin_Board/ http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/auditory.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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