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,

(15 yo) doesn't have a bedwetting problem, but has some

urinary incontinence during the day (not enough to be an obvious

problem). We have been curious about this as it seemed to start when

OCD hit. Our family doc thinks it is anxiety related and didn't

explore a physiological reason. When I take back to the

endocrinologist, I plan on asking again about the situation.

I have a concern that sometimes many of 's health issues (low

weight, low body fat, no growth in stature in a year, etc.) are

automatically attributed to OCD so more investigation is nixed from

the start. I fear that a very real health issue will be overlooked

because his OCD takes center stage. I may be beating a dead horse,

but that is my gut instinct. That is why we are heading back to the

endocrinologist after a year's data of no growth to ask for further

investigation.

Thankfully, no one has attributed the kidney stone he passed last

week to OCD ;-).

Melinda S.

Dallas

> Hi all!

>

> A question for you all. How many of your kids have bedwetting

> problems? is almost 12 and is hardly ever dry. She is

> currently seeing a pediatric urologist who is trying her on some

> medication, but it doesn't seem to be working. She has been on the

> meds since Oct. with only a little success. She went from 5 nights

a

> month dry to 18-20 nights a month dry UNTIL we started therapy

again

> in April. The months of May and June have been almost continuously

> wet nights. There has to be a connection there somewhere. I know

> bedwetting is on the list of symptoms for bipolar disorder, but how

> about OCD?

>

> Thanks!

> in PA

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Guest guest

My son, 6 yrs old, also still has bed wetting problems at night. Although my

pediatrician has suggested that we start addressing the problem by buying an

incontinence alarm, the psychiatrist thinks it is too big of an issue to

start working on yet! What I take that to mean is that he needs more therapy

and a longer time with meds on board. I never thought about the connection

between OCD and bedwetting before. I am srry to hear other kids on this list

have problems with it too...but again its nice to know we arent alone.

Amy in ohio

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Guest guest

I have read that bed wetting is a neurological " soft sign " that all is not

" typical " in a person's brain. Though I haven't run across anything linking

bedwetting and OCD specifically, I do know it is sometimes seen in other

brain disorders.

There is a nose spray in addition to the alarm that has worked for some.

Also, someone on the list awhile back posted their success in waking their

child at a certain point in the night to use the bathroom.

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " Amy Gusbar " <agusbar@...>

> My son, 6 yrs old, also still has bed wetting problems at night. Although

my

> pediatrician has suggested that we start addressing the problem by buying

an

> incontinence alarm, the psychiatrist thinks it is too big of an issue to

> start working on yet! What I take that to mean is that he needs more

therapy

> and a longer time with meds on board. I never thought about the connection

> between OCD and bedwetting before. I am srry to hear other kids on this

list

> have problems with it too...but again its nice to know we arent alone.

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Guest guest

Amy:

My son (9 yo) has bed wetting problems too. When he was on Luvox and Risperdal he wet the bed every night, or close to it. When the Luvox pooped out and we changed meds he no longer had a wet bet. Now all of the sudden, just this week, he's wetting the bed again. I don't know what to think. He's been on the same meds for several months. Sometimes I wonder if they're sleeping so hard they don't know to wake up. But then again, it seems like he loses control of his bladder for no reason other than the meds. or the combination of them. It was recommended from our pdoc to use one of those alarms, but he sleeps so hard he wouldn't wake up (plus, if I remember right they are expensive).

Well, this is what I know from my experience, but since we're in "it" again I'd like to now of any suggestions, too.

Take care

Tamra (ocdmom2001)

Re: Bed wetting

My son, 6 yrs old, also still has bed wetting problems at night. Although my pediatrician has suggested that we start addressing the problem by buying an incontinence alarm, the psychiatrist thinks it is too big of an issue to start working on yet! What I take that to mean is that he needs more therapy and a longer time with meds on board. I never thought about the connection between OCD and bedwetting before. I am srry to hear other kids on this list have problems with it too...but again its nice to know we arent alone.Amy in ohio_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.comYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

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  • 5 months later...

Sharon,

Thanks for the response to the bed-wetting info. I want to make sure I

explained it right--as it was explained to me. The night-time bed-wetting seems

somehow linked with OCD but not necessarily caused by it.

I am learning so much on this site! I didn't realize how isolated I was

feeling--and how much I needed to hear others' experiences and perspectives. My

daughter, Maia, is a wonderful person, and from what I can gather, fortunate to

have only moderate OCD and mild Tourette's at this point in her life. It began

to bother her about a year and a half ago(she told us she had been silentily

counting things and needing to balance things for a few years prior to that,

even). I had seen symptoms before that, but was waiting to see what direction

things went. I don't know exactly what I was waiting for. Anxiety disorders

run in both mine and my husband's family--I should have jumped on some support

much earlier.

And now as I watch Maia hitting pre-puberty (yes, at 9!ok--almost 10), she is

becoming more self-conscious daily. On top of that, we moved from Austin to

Lubbock (Texas) last August--and even though she weathered the move remarkably

well, the self-imposed pressure to fit in as normal is exacting an enormous

amount of energy from her, I can tell. In Austin, she had known her friends for

years and felt comfortable telling them about OCD. Now she is missing that, I

know. I want to find a support system for her here. I'm asking around, but due

to financial limitations, I've been slow to follow through. We did find a good

psychiatrist, but I know my daughter needs more than that. I'm hoping to begin

ERT in the near future--if I can find a trained therapist nearby. If not, it

will have to wait until summer.

Do you, or does anyone, have any suggestions about resources in Lubbock or

Dallas? I have family and Dallas, and could perhaps stay there over the summer.

I'm teaching now, so I don't have the luxury of traveling for treatment.

Again, I am so glad to have found all of you.

Roth

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Sharon,

Thanks for the response to the bed-wetting info. I want to make sure I

explained it right--as it was explained to me. The night-time bed-wetting seems

somehow linked with OCD but not necessarily caused by it.

I am learning so much on this site! I didn't realize how isolated I was

feeling--and how much I needed to hear others' experiences and perspectives. My

daughter, Maia, is a wonderful person, and from what I can gather, fortunate to

have only moderate OCD and mild Tourette's at this point in her life. It began

to bother her about a year and a half ago(she told us she had been silentily

counting things and needing to balance things for a few years prior to that,

even). I had seen symptoms before that, but was waiting to see what direction

things went. I don't know exactly what I was waiting for. Anxiety disorders

run in both mine and my husband's family--I should have jumped on some support

much earlier.

And now as I watch Maia hitting pre-puberty (yes, at 9!ok--almost 10), she is

becoming more self-conscious daily. On top of that, we moved from Austin to

Lubbock (Texas) last August--and even though she weathered the move remarkably

well, the self-imposed pressure to fit in as normal is exacting an enormous

amount of energy from her, I can tell. In Austin, she had known her friends for

years and felt comfortable telling them about OCD. Now she is missing that, I

know. I want to find a support system for her here. I'm asking around, but due

to financial limitations, I've been slow to follow through. We did find a good

psychiatrist, but I know my daughter needs more than that. I'm hoping to begin

ERT in the near future--if I can find a trained therapist nearby. If not, it

will have to wait until summer.

Do you, or does anyone, have any suggestions about resources in Lubbock or

Dallas? I have family and Dallas, and could perhaps stay there over the summer.

I'm teaching now, so I don't have the luxury of traveling for treatment.

Again, I am so glad to have found all of you.

Roth

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  • 2 months later...
Guest guest

Andy, in a recent post you wrote:

>>Enuresis, the fancy doctor word for bed wetting, is a well known sign

of ethylmercury intoxication and is discussed in the mainstream

medical literature, e. g. by Zhang.

Andy <<

It caught my interest because my nearly 10 year old autistic son still wets

the bed, although he has been potty trained since the age of 4. Since my

son was exposed to unsafe levels of mercury and has high levels of toxic

metals, I asked our medical department to look into the " mainstream medical

literature " you reference to try to find more information on this.

They did a Medline search and found no links between enuresis, mercury or

ethylmercury. They found one link with Zhang and enuresis, abstract below,

but no reference to mercury.

Could you give us a little more information, so we can search again?

Thanks very much,

M. Bothwell

Waters & Kraus, LLP

200 Oceangate, Suite 520

Long Beach, California 90802

Tel: (562) 436-8833

Fax: (562) 590-7296

: Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi 1990 May;10(5):278-9, 260

Related Articles, (Embedded image

moved to file: pic00041.gif)Books,

LinkOut

[Preliminary study of traditional Chinese medicine treatment of

minimal brain dysfunction: analysis of 100 cases]

[Article in Chinese]

Zhang H, Huang J.

Affiliated Hospital of Guangzhou College of TCM.

This paper reports the clinical treatment of 100 patients with

minimal brain dysfunction (MBD), their age ranged from 7-14.2 years,

and the average age was 10.5. Patients were divided into TCM and WM

group randomly. The TCM group (80 cases) were treated with the

therapy of subdueing hyperactivity of the Liver and invigorating the

function of the Spleen by using: Bupleurum chinense, Scutellaria

baicalensis, Astragalus membranaceus, Codonopsis pilosula, Ligustrum

lucidum, Lophatherum gracile and thread of ivory. The WM group (20

cases) were treated with retalin 5-15 mg twice daily. One course of

treatment lasted one month, and effects were evaluated after 1-3

courses of treatment. The results were as follows: In the TCM group,

23 cases were cured (clinical symptom and sign disappeared, 10 IQ

units were raised in their intelligence, abnormal

electroencephalogram was recovered and there was no recurrence during

the first six months after recovery). 46 cases were improved

(clinical symptom and sign markedly improved, 4 IQ units raised in

intelligence and electroencephalogram improved), and 11 cases

ineffective. The effective rate was 86.25%. In the WM group, 6 cases

were cured, 12 cases improved and 2 cases ineffective, the clinical

effective rate being 90.0%. There was no significant difference

between the two groups in this study, but, the side-effects of the

TCM group was less than the WM group, and the TCM group had more

beneficial effects to improve intelligence, enuresis and the black of

orbits. The study showed that the Verbal Scale in Wechsler

Intelligence Scale for children is one of the indications of

diagnosis and evaluating of the curative effect of MBD.

Publication Types:

Clinical Trial

Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 2397543 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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  • 4 months later...
Guest guest

For my son (and for the son of a friend of mine) bed wetting is always a sign

of yeast or other bacteria out of balance in the gut. When the yeast is

under control, we always have dry nights.

- Becky B. (Indiana)

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  • 1 year later...

,

I suppose it's possible, but I don't know that I will ever find out.

Grace

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:35:08 -0500 " Mike Mchugh "

<mcpitza@...> writes:

> Grace,

> Is it possible she had a petite mal seizure? My so wets himself when

> he has these.

>

> M

>

>

>

>

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

Lori~

If I remember correctly, bed wetting can be helped by doing C3/A1 rewarding beta, inhibiting theta

~

bed wetting

Pete,I've done an assessment on my 6-year old son who sleeps very deep anddoesn't wake when he needs to go to the bathroom. He also has troublefalling asleep at bedtime. He has a front back reversal and lots of thetaall over in front. I remember from the workshop that you said thatbedwetting usually means needing to bring beta up. Would that be increasingbeta in front? What do you suggest training?Lori Houston

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Guest guest

If I also remember Pete correctly, bed wetting is caused by failing to enter REM stage sleep due to lack of beta - so C3/A1 beta reward should help.

-----Original Message-----From: Duncan [mailto:karenduncan@...]Sent: 18 March 2004 17:47 Subject: Re: bed wetting

Lori~

If I remember correctly, bed wetting can be helped by doing C3/A1 rewarding beta, inhibiting theta

~

bed wetting

Pete,I've done an assessment on my 6-year old son who sleeps very deep anddoesn't wake when he needs to go to the bathroom. He also has troublefalling asleep at bedtime. He has a front back reversal and lots of thetaall over in front. I remember from the workshop that you said thatbedwetting usually means needing to bring beta up. Would that be increasingbeta in front? What do you suggest training?Lori Houston

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Guest guest

Thank you so much for the responses. I will try that.

-----Original Message-----From: Duncan [mailto:karenduncan@...]Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: Re: bed wetting

Lori~

If I remember correctly, bed wetting can be helped by doing C3/A1 rewarding beta, inhibiting theta

~

bed wetting

Pete,I've done an assessment on my 6-year old son who sleeps very deep anddoesn't wake when he needs to go to the bathroom. He also has troublefalling asleep at bedtime. He has a front back reversal and lots of thetaall over in front. I remember from the workshop that you said thatbedwetting usually means needing to bring beta up. Would that be increasingbeta in front? What do you suggest training?Lori Houston

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

> Hi, my 8 year old has been bedwetting excessively lately..

Yeast die off can do this.

We put a

> night time pullup on her but she has been wetting thru this..We are

> chelating every 3 hrs

How many days on and off?

>> and have her on houston enzymes..Also we use

> GSE normally with a no-fenol at night and in the morning..

This can be causing the yeast die off.

We also

> have her on Clondine at night to help with sleep..She also gets

> mg,calcium, zinc, vit b12 and b6, molybedum, selenium, vit c all

> same dosegs 3x per day.

Too much B12 will cause one of my kids to drink excessive amounts of

water [among other problems]. I would recommend you add folic acid,

it can help with B12 problems.

Dana

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Guest guest

Hi Yeast I was thinking yeast die off but its been going on for a

few weeks now...Is this normal or should I try something else..

I have been chelating every friday afternoon thru monday am..

Is b12 something I should take out of her daily supplements or just

try adding the folic acid..?? and how much Folic acid would be

adequate???

Otherwise she is doing 100% better than in the winter..there is no

comparison..I really feel the Chelation is helping..maybe I am doing

it to much??

Any advise would be greatly appreciated..

wrote:

>

> > Hi, my 8 year old has been bedwetting excessively lately..

>

>

> Yeast die off can do this.

>

>

> We put a

> > night time pullup on her but she has been wetting thru this..We

are

> > chelating every 3 hrs

>

>

> How many days on and off?

>

>

> >> and have her on houston enzymes..Also we use

> > GSE normally with a no-fenol at night and in the morning..

>

>

> This can be causing the yeast die off.

>

>

> We also

> > have her on Clondine at night to help with sleep..She also gets

> > mg,calcium, zinc, vit b12 and b6, molybedum, selenium, vit c all

> > same dosegs 3x per day.

>

>

> Too much B12 will cause one of my kids to drink excessive amounts

of

> water [among other problems]. I would recommend you add folic

acid,

> it can help with B12 problems.

>

> Dana

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Guest guest

Hi,

This happened to my son after he had been dry for about 6 mo. I used

Hyland's homeopathic remedy for bedwetting. I used the whole portion

of medication in the directed dosage. I think it was 3 days' worth.

Anyway, it completely worked, and we have not had a problem since.

Got it at the health food store.

e

> > > Hi, my 8 year old has been bedwetting excessively lately..

> >

> >

> > Yeast die off can do this.

> >

> >

> > We put a

> > > night time pullup on her but she has been wetting thru this..We

> are

> > > chelating every 3 hrs

> >

> >

> > How many days on and off?

> >

> >

> > >> and have her on houston enzymes..Also we use

> > > GSE normally with a no-fenol at night and in the morning..

> >

> >

> > This can be causing the yeast die off.

> >

> >

> > We also

> > > have her on Clondine at night to help with sleep..She also gets

> > > mg,calcium, zinc, vit b12 and b6, molybedum, selenium, vit c

all

> > > same dosegs 3x per day.

> >

> >

> > Too much B12 will cause one of my kids to drink excessive amounts

> of

> > water [among other problems]. I would recommend you add folic

> acid,

> > it can help with B12 problems.

> >

> > Dana

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Guest guest

> Hi Yeast I was thinking yeast die off but its been going on for a

> few weeks now...Is this normal or should I try something else..

It can be yeast die-off that is going on that long. Depends on a few

factors.

> Is b12 something I should take out of her daily supplements or just

> try adding the folic acid..?? and how much Folic acid would be

> adequate???

If you noticed improvement when you added the B12, then I would

recommend you reduce the dose and add folic acid. For my kids, they

need 800 mcg folic acid per every 125 mcg B12 [these are oral doses].

> Otherwise she is doing 100% better than in the winter..there is no

> comparison..I really feel the Chelation is helping..maybe I am doing

> it to much??

If you chelate every weekend, you might find more stability if you

skipped a weekend. My son did okay with every weekend, but

occasionally the yeast got out of control and I skipped a weekend and

increased the GSE.

Dana

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Guest guest

How long have you been on enzymes? This can cause bedwetting in some

instances.

Kim

Hi, my 8 year old has been bedwetting excessively lately..We put a

night time pullup on her but she has been wetting thru this..We are

chelating every 3 hrs and have her on houston enzymes..

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  • 1 year later...

In a message dated 18/12/2005 23:58:42 GMT Standard Time,

eeejay174@... writes:

my eldest wet the bed, - he hasnt wet the bed in years and years -

is this something to be worried about?

>>>Sam wets when he is having yeast flare, common with ALA

Mandi in UK

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> my eldest wet the bed, - he hasnt wet the bed in years and years -

> is this something to be worried about?

Yeast overgrowth and/or die off can cause this. Try increasing your

yeast protocol, see if that helps.

Dana

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look for changes Mom, changes in environment, teachers, aides, new students, new

discipline, etc. Look at everything. Make sure there is no abuse going on.

Candis

Autism Research Survey online at:

http://www.inclusioncommunitytrainingcenter.org

Candis Firchau,MA,TLPC

Director

Inclusion Community Training Center

Advocacy, Behavioral Interventions, Counseling

and Training

979.826.8568

This email is intended exclusively for the person to whom it was addressed. This

email is confidential. If you have received this email by error, please

disregard it.

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or new mattress/bedding. The flame retardant (antimony) often makes kids sleep

so soundly they don't realize they need to get up and go to the bathroom...

S S

<tt>

look for changes Mom, changes in environment, teachers, aides, new students, new

discipline, etc.  Look at everything.  Make sure there is no abuse going on.<BR>

   <BR>

  Candis<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

  Autism Research Survey online at: <a

href= " http://www.inclusioncommunitytrainingcenter.org " >http://www.inclusioncommu\

nitytrainingcenter.org</a> <BR>

   <BR>

  Candis Firchau,MA,TLPC <BR>

Director <BR>

  Inclusion Community Training Center <BR>

  Advocacy, Behavioral Interventions, Counseling <BR>

and Training <BR>

  <BR>

979.826.8568 <BR>

<BR>

This email is intended exclusively for the person to whom it was addressed. This

email is confidential. If you have received this email by error, please

disregard it.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

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  • 1 month later...

Dana~

Bedwetting is usually a processing issue, too many slow waves frontally.

~

Bed wetting

> Many of us work with ADD/ADHD kids. Some have problems with wetting.

> Are any of you having success stopping the wetting? What do you do?

>

> Any and all insight appreciated.

>

> Dana

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Thank you ,

Actually without putting it together like that, that is just what I did the other day. I switched to frontal protcols to inhibit the slow activity.

Perhaps I am a bit ADD myself. I know the answer in some cases, I just am not sure how I got there! I appreciate the response.

Any other insights?

Dana

Bed wetting> Many of us work with ADD/ADHD kids. Some have problems with wetting. > Are any of you having success stopping the wetting? What do you do?> > Any and all insight appreciated.> > Dana> > > > > > >

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Dana,

The Othmers reported a great deal of success with enuresis when they

were with EEG spectrum. There were some articles about that on the

site at that time. I have not visited the Spectrum site for a long

time, they may not still be there.

My best results with enuresis have come from hypnosis.

On Feb 11, 2006, at 5:51 AM, Dana Rutschilling, MSW, LISW wrote:

> Many of us work with ADD/ADHD kids. Some have problems with wetting.

> Are any of you having success stopping the wetting? What do you do?

>

> Any and all insight appreciated.

>

> Dana

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Dana, I strongly agreed with , that is a Processing issue, meaning that the "general" brain activation tends to show slow waves at the processing areas. If you train Frontal and Central for ADD, inhibiting Theta and rewarding Beta ro LoBeta (SMR), depends on the site, you will have a firm result for the bedwetting. IME when I increased the reward to 15-18Hz, some cases to 17-21Hz at C3-C4 the kids becomes more attentive and stop the bedwetting as soon as the first session. Just remember that every kid is different, also depends on the age, the exact frequence will change, but as a Physician needs to adjust the meds until reach the exact dosis to his patient, you will to do so until find the right frequence to reward. Best of luck ;) JRDana Rutschilling <ruty@...> wrote: Thank you , Actually without putting it together like that, that is just what I did the other day. I switched to frontal protcols to inhibit the slow activity. Perhaps I am a bit ADD myself. I know the answer in some cases, I just am not sure how I got there! I appreciate the response. Any other insights? Dana

Bed wetting> Many of us work with ADD/ADHD kids. Some have problems with wetting. > Are any of you having success stopping the wetting? What do you do?> > Any and all insight appreciated.> > Dana> > > > > > >

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