Re: Re: New poster VMAF question

[Guest guest]

Dear Chip,

By all means, don't cold turkey off beta blockers. I tapered off by myself

over a period of a month and

a half, cutting the pills into quarters and one to two days after reducing

my dose one quarter, I experienced very pounding fibrillations and then

after three days this would subside to my more normal

afibs.

I'm sure your physician could help you with this somehow.

Re: Re: New poster VMAF question

> In a message dated 2/16/02 11:05:13 AM Central Standard Time,

> fross@... writes:

>

> << fross@... >>

>

> Fran--Thanks

>

> I note the medical note you sent [medline?] is less emphatic about the

> contraindications of beta blockers and digoxin. I've been on both for 20

> years oridinally for the hyper-thyroidism that started my abib. I 've

alway

> heard you can't " cold-turkey " off those meds. Guess the ole cardiologist

and

> I need to talk.

>

> The few times I've been without those meds, I've had markedly increased

> anxiety and B/P w/ extra systole. Always reminded me to find the drugs

ASAP.

>

> Chip

>

>

> Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> Post message: AFIBsupport

> Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe

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> List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/24/2002 9:16:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vmpaf@... writes:

<< a Dietician and two Gastroents all said they didn't

think mine was due to a food sensitivity, but I found out later it

definitely was - wheat. I cut wheat out and things got better quite

quickly, but then my AF tipped into persistent >>

Vicki,

I have now cut almost everything from my diet except fish, wheat, and nuts.

I take a lot of supplements: vitamins, calcium, and other minerals. I think

cutting the dairy products was essential because my stomach is better, but

not good enough to stop the triggering of afib. What kind of grains do you

eat if you don't eat wheat? I notice that most breads and cereals contain

either wheat or milk solids or both. I had to give up the oatmeal bread that

I used eat because it contained milk solids. I am not eating a wheat bread

that contains no milk solids. Perhaps wheat is the next thing I should try

eliminating, but I think it would be difficult to get enough folic acid

without grains. I would like to give up eating altogether because it just

causes trouble, but I guess that isn't possible! :-)

in afib in sunny, beautiful but cold Seattle

[Guest guest]

on Sat, 23 Feb 2002 at 22:44:04, Starfi6314@... wrote :

>he

>began the examination at my last visit by saying, " Good! You're in afib. "

>You can believe that gave me pause! I assumed that he meant that it was good

>that he was finally able to examine me and get an ECG while I was in afib

I have also come to believe that it is vital to get a Holter tape

showing (i) you going in and out of AF and (ii) one that you feel is

representative of what you normally feel (/like). Then your good Cardio

can also see these progressions. I also have a good Cardio (described

by a top UK heart surgeon to me as " You are lucky as he is a very bright

and able doctor " ), but even he needed a representative Holter tape

before we could all see what was going on.

Getting such a tape can be frustrating, but it needs to be done.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

London, UK, 1954 model

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" It is the theory that decides what can be observed "

- Albert Einstein

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[Guest guest]

on Sat, 23 Feb 2002 at 23:11:37, Starfi6314@... wrote :

>My gastroenterologist even had me

>tested for parasites because I mentioned that my dog had to be treated for

>whip worms and I wondered if I could have picked them up from her. As I

>mentioned before, according to the results of all tests, I am in perfect

>gastric health. This is very frustrating.

Don't I know it. Sounds v similar to me. What annoyed me in my case

was that my GP, a Dietician and two Gastroents all said they didn't

think mine was due to a food sensitivity, but I found out later it

definitely was - wheat. I cut wheat out and things got better quite

quickly, but then my AF tipped into persistent - for some totally

unknown reason. MY gastric tract is a lot better these days, though the

dofetilide is making me constipated on the higher dose I'm now on.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

London, UK, 1954 model

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" There is a moment in the life of any problem when it is large

enough to see, but small enough to solve " - anon

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/24/2002 9:11:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vmpaf@... writes:

<< I have also come to believe that it is vital to get a Holter tape

showing (i) you going in and out of AF and (ii) one that you feel is

representative of what you normally feel (/like). >>

I have worn the Holter monitor four times, but it never captured my

performance in afib. Twice I went into afib an hour after I returned the

monitor. Tests don't seem to work too well for me! However, now that I am

bouncing in and out of afib at nearly breakneck speed, compared with my

former frequency, it should be fairly easy for a Holter monitor to trace the

events. For example, I awoke at 4:30 a.m. today in afib but by 2:30 p.m the

same day I was back in sinus. I am wondering if I am going into afib even

more frequently than I realize because I was not aware that I was back in

sinus today until I happened to take my pulse. Since I no longer take my

pulse almost constantly as I did in the beginning of my afib experience and

since the meds make my afib symptoms almost nonexistent, perhaps I am

converting more frequently than I realize. Whereas I used to go into afib

out with a major fanfare and drum roll of my wildly beating heart, now I

frequently just slip indiscernibly into afib. The opposite is true of my

conversion to sinus now. I used to just unobtrusively slip back to sinus,

but now I sometimes have the major fanfare of tachycardia and wild beats when

converting to sinus. A Holter monitor should certainly be useful in this

situation. I will ask to wear the monitor again at my next appointment.

Thanks for the good idea, Vicki.

in sinus in unusually sunny, not very warm Seattle

[Guest guest]

By the way, Vicki, good luck with your ablation decision. I think ablation

would be my next choice if all the meds fail to make my afib livable. You

have to do what you have to do to maintain a bearable quality of life. I

know you have tried most of the meds, even Amiodarone (?), so it would seem

that no alternatives remain except ablation or the Maze. I haven't tried any

of the heavy duty meds yet, but Flecainide will be my next if my current meds

fail to keep symptoms at bay as they are doing now. If Flecainide failed for

me, I might try Dofetilide, as you are doing; and the next stop for me would

be ablation, if my doc approves it. It seems that you are following a

logical progression.

Best wishes,

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

what is AMAF? Thanks

[Guest guest]

VMAF means vagally mediated atrial fibrillation. It refers to vagal afib

which is triggered by the vagus nerve, which controls both digestion and

heart rate. The other type of afib is adrenergic, which is not vagally

mediated.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

<<what is AMAF? Thanks >

I guess

AMAF = adrenergically mediated atrial fibrillation (triggered by the

adrenal side)

and while I'm here...

VMAF = vagally mediated atrial fibrillation (triggered by the vagal side)

LAF = Lone atrial fibrillation (non known cause)

PAF = paroxysmal atrial fibrillation (intermittent)

and I've also seen CAF for chronic AF

PAF is a little dangerous to use as a TLA in my opinion since there is also

Persistent and Permanent AF.

what's TLA?

TLA = Three Letter Abbreviation

It's always a good idea to write the long version out once before using the

abbreviation but I guess we all know what AF is by now!

--

D (33, Leeds, UK)

[Guest guest]

on Sun, 24 Feb 2002 at 15:34:14, Starfi6314@... wrote :

>What kind of grains do you

>eat if you don't eat wheat?

Mostly rye and oats - rye bread (have to be careful here) - rye

crackers, oat " cakes " (=biscuits). There are also rice and tapioca

breads which my daughter eats which are OK - a closer match to wheat

breads that rye products. I don't believe I have to totally avoid cow

milk, so I don't eliminate dairy, but I can see if one has to it makes

things even more difficult.

>Perhaps wheat is the next thing I should try

>eliminating

I was told by /all/ the alternative practitioners that wheat should be

the /first/ thing to cut out. I wish I had listened, but I am wary of

some alternative advice - I wish there was a way to tell which such

advice was good and which was mumbo jumbo.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

London, UK, 1954 model

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" Wisdom is the quality that keeps you from getting into

situations where we need it " - Doug Larsen

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