Cod Liver Oil

May 31, 2003

Don't believe in intolerance until you have tried out various brands.

CLO is prone to rancidity which produces abundant fee radicals. A bottle of

liquid CLO should for example be thrown out after a few weeks.

Try Eye-Q from www.Equazen.com

I am about to try out a product produced in Belgium so stay posted. It has a

higher EPA/DHA ratio and is cheaper!

[ ] Cod liver Oil

>

> Does anyone know why my son would not be able to

> tolerate cod liver oil. It helps so many kids including

> my older NT son who suffered with arthritis in his right knee before

> I started supplementing it in his diet.

> The rheumatologist could not believe it when my son's knee healed

> completely.

> my love and challenge cannot tolerate it ........we actually see

> bad temper tantrums.

>

> Any ideas?

>

> =======================================================

>

June 30, 2004

I do not know that brand. I use Nordic Naturals. Call them so they

can send you some information regarding the level of mercury in their

oil.

> My son is chelating, and one of the supplements we use is carlson

> cod liver oil, I know he is not supposed to eat fish , but is the

> cold liver oil ok while chelating?

> Thanks

July 1, 2004

> My son is chelating, and one of the supplements we use is carlson

> cod liver oil, I know he is not supposed to eat fish , but is the

> cold liver oil ok while chelating?

yes, generally. People have commented on some companies

that test their CLO for mercury, and that have low amounts.

You might ask the company about it (that makes the CLO).

(Also some fish are reasonable to eat, and others are not.)

good wishes,

Moria

May 31, 2005

It is the other way around, Cod liver in the winter months when we tend

to be indoors, because it has vitamind D, and regular fish oil in the

summer months when we are outside and getting enought sun.

Barbara Soffer wrote:

> I think I heard that you're not supposed to give your kids cod liver oil

> in the summertime because of sun exposure and Vitamin D. Is this true?

> If so, how much time in the sun per day is too much? When I called the

> Nordic Naturals people, the woman I spoke to on the phone didn't know

> what I was talking about. Can anyone help with this?

>

> Barbara

>

June 2, 2005

> I think I heard that you're not supposed to give your kids cod liver

oil in the summertime because of sun exposure and Vitamin D. Is this

true? If so, how much time in the sun per day is too much?

From the info I have, your child would need to spend time outside in

the sunshine, without sunscreen, and you would need to live between

the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. Otherwise, the sun

exposure would not be significant enough to warrant dropping the CLO.

However, you can definitely use fish oil in the summer and just

supplement with vitamin A separately. Then give CLO [with A & D] in

the winter.

Dana

April 20, 2006

a lot of people have that problem and it is usually because the body can't

process the oil, etc. Try taking Swedish bitters for a while. I did that and I

can now take 2 tablespoons and I don't burp. Swedish Bitters help to produce

the bile for digestion. When you start eating more fats as in this type diet

our bodies are not used to it.

Allyn

cod liver oil

i bought some cod liver oil capsules a few days ago. mostly for my

husband who has sebhorrheic dermatitis in his face and scalp, but i'm

taking it too, as i've never supplemented with it before and i think

we both could use it, in this cloudy northern climate.

the ingredients (as best translated from french) are:

cod liver oil 509 mg per cap (huile de foie de morue), silica

(silice), antioxidants: tocopherols (antioxydants: tocopherols), in

a 100% veggie cap. it recommends taking 1 cap 3x day. its the best

one i can find in the store here, aside from a wickedly expensive one

in the health food store which we can't afford.

so when my husband tried taking one cap, before a meal he was burping

it up for hours afterwards. the same thing has happened in the past

when he's tried canned sardines. he can eat canned tuna fish, and

other fresh fish (doesn't like salmon) with no problems. he can

digest butter, chicken fat and coconut just fine.

does anyone know what would cause this?

he can take it in the middle of the meal instead of the beginning,

but would that really make such a difference?

thanks ~ susan

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April 20, 2006

>

> i bought some cod liver oil capsules a few days ago. mostly for my

> husband who has sebhorrheic dermatitis in his face and scalp, but i'm

> taking it too, as i've never supplemented with it before and i think

> we both could use it, in this cloudy northern climate.

>

> the ingredients (as best translated from french) are:

> cod liver oil 509 mg per cap (huile de foie de morue), silica

> (silice), antioxidants: tocopherols (antioxydants: tocopherols), in

> a 100% veggie cap. it recommends taking 1 cap 3x day. its the best

> one i can find in the store here, aside from a wickedly expensive one

> in the health food store which we can't afford.

>

> so when my husband tried taking one cap, before a meal he was burping

> it up for hours afterwards. the same thing has happened in the past

> when he's tried canned sardines. he can eat canned tuna fish, and

> other fresh fish (doesn't like salmon) with no problems. he can

> digest butter, chicken fat and coconut just fine.

>

> does anyone know what would cause this?

> he can take it in the middle of the meal instead of the beginning,

> but would that really make such a difference?

susan,

First, check the cod liver oil bottle and see what it listes under

" vitamin A " if it says " retinyl palmitate " then throw it out.

Also, please tell us the amount of vitamin A and D provided per

serving, and how much a serving is: one capsule? two or three or six?

My own suspicion is that the oil in the caps may be rancid--which is a

problem with buying clo in caps--and would cause the indigestion in

your DH. The body doesn't care to digest rancid oils. May not be, but

that is my guess, because you say he digests the other oils without

incident. If the sardines were canned in olive oil, it was likely a

cheap-grade--thus rancid--olive oil. Tuna in water, wouldn't have this

problem/effect.

Oh yeah, the 100% veggie caps are virtually indigestable as well,

although if he was burping clo, it sounds like he got lucky on that

front. Oh the irony.

B.

April 20, 2006

thanks for the tip on bile production! any other quick thoughts on

what else stimulates it? like any certain foods (eating bitter greens,

or apple cider vinegar before a meal or such? i know i have references

to it, i'm just lazy right now i guess)

i have been eating high fat (including raw butter, pork & chicken fat,

beef fat when i can get it, salmon, coconut oil, etc.) for the past

three years with no problems, and husband does fine with it too,

though he just doesn't like salmon.

i wonder why it happens with this cod liver oil?

> a lot of people have that problem and it is usually because the body

can't process the oil, etc. Try taking Swedish bitters for a while.

I did that and I can now take 2 tablespoons and I don't burp. Swedish

Bitters help to produce the bile for digestion. When you start eating

more fats as in this type diet our bodies are not used to it.

> Allyn

April 20, 2006

> First, check the cod liver oil bottle and see what it listes under

> " vitamin A " if it says " retinyl palmitate " then throw it out.

actually i had seen that previous post before i went out and got

these. good info!

> Also, please tell us the amount of vitamin A and D provided per

> serving, and how much a serving is: one capsule? two or three or

six?

here's the info again:

cod liver oil 509 mg per cap

silica

antioxidants: tocopherols

in a 100% veggie cap.

it recommends taking 1 cap 3x day.

that's all it says on the bottle and on the box.

> My own suspicion is that the oil in the caps may be rancid--which

is a

> problem with buying clo in caps--and would cause the indigestion in

> your DH. The body doesn't care to digest rancid oils. May not be,

but

> that is my guess, because you say he digests the other oils without

> incident. If the sardines were canned in olive oil, it was likely a

> cheap-grade--thus rancid--olive oil. Tuna in water, wouldn't have

this

> problem/effect.

the sardines he's tried on two separate occasions are with bones &

skin, packed in spring water. no oils added.

he was out of town all day, so i experimented with myself.

had one in the middle of breakfast: 2 eggs fried in bacon fat and one

thick slice natural bacon - no adverse reaction.

had one in the middle of lunch: bowl of pureed veg soup with raw

butter & coconut oil stirred in, and some sliced steak with a little

extra butter & sea salt - have been burping c.l.o. for the past few

hours.

it doesn't have a rancid smell or taste, and i'm pretty sensitive to

that smell & flavor.

>

> Oh yeah, the 100% veggie caps are virtually indigestable as well,

> although if he was burping clo, it sounds like he got lucky on that

> front. Oh the irony.

so what would happen normally from the veggie caps? gas and bloating?

sheesh, it's a constant struggle isn't it?

thanks teresa!

~susan

April 20, 2006

> here's the info again:

>

> cod liver oil 509 mg per cap

> silica

> antioxidants: tocopherols

> in a 100% veggie cap.

>

> it recommends taking 1 cap 3x day.

>

> that's all it says on the bottle and on the box.

Hmm, IMO the consumer needs to know the amount of vitamin A & D

supplied per serving, no? I mean, we wouldn't want anyone to overdose

on vitamin A, now, would we? *winks at Chris*

Is there a website--or can you contact the company and get that info?

> the sardines he's tried on two separate occasions are with bones &

> skin, packed in spring water. no oils added.

Oh, well, my hypotheses are inadequate.

> he was out of town all day, so i experimented with myself.

I like your style! Unfortunately, I have no idea about your

contradictory results. Wait...perhaps the cap didn't dissolve in the

breakfast dose?

> so what would happen normally from the veggie caps? gas and bloating?

I assume the the body would be unable to access the contents of the

cap. This seems to be inconsistent.

> sheesh, it's a constant struggle isn't it?

Fortitude and endurance, my child.

B.

April 20, 2006

On 4/20/06, susan <thenaturalkitchen@...> wrote:

> so when my husband tried taking one cap, before a meal he was burping

> it up for hours afterwards.

When Dr. Mike Marasco was on this board, he said that he has found in

his clients that taking the CLO apart from food always helps this. He

said that it has to be on a truly empty stomach, at least an hour away

from food either before or after.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

April 21, 2006

I usually take my CLO in some water with lemon juice right before bed. I can

get it down without gagging that way and if I burp, I'm asleep and don't

notice.

April 22, 2006

thanks to everyone for all the ideas.

so here is what i've concluded at this point:

-veggie caps are digesting since we can taste cod liver oil when we

burp (and i used to take an herbal laxative that was in veggie cpas

and boy oh boy that sure worked, so they must have been digesting too)

-we are taking it during a meal as recommended on the bottle

-i've seen 3 different recommendations - just before a meal, during a

meal and away from meals. we will take it at the beginning of our

meals and see how that does.

-sometimes we burp it, other times we don't.

-next c.l.o. i get will be of higher quality (with nutrient info

included not like this stuff i have now), as i research companies here

in europe that will ship to me in belgium, i hope to order a few

things on the net at better prices than what is here in the stores.

-there's a phone number on the current bottle, i'll call and try to

get more info on the amount of A & D in each doseage

if the burping continues, i will try taking it away from meals and see

how that does and report back.

thanks again everyone!

~susan

> When Dr. Mike Marasco was on this board, he said that he has found in

> his clients that taking the CLO apart from food always helps this.

He

> said that it has to be on a truly empty stomach, at least an hour

away

> from food either before or after.

April 23, 2006

People who have had their bile producing gland (what's it called?)

(age), must still produce bile to digest. Actually, it's the liver that

produces the bile and the --------- gland that stores it for release

whenever we eat. Now that's gone and the liver still produces it but

not when we eat and need it. You can train the liver to release it if

you are anal about when you eat. Same times every day will stimulate

liver to produce bile.

On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:26 AM, susan wrote:

> thanks for the tip on bile production! any other quick thoughts on

> what else stimulates it?

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

April 23, 2006

On 4/23/06, Parashis <artpages@...> wrote:

> People who have had their bile producing gland (what's it called?)

> (age), must still produce bile to digest. Actually, it's the liver that

> produces the bile and the --------- gland that stores it for release

> whenever we eat. Now that's gone and the liver still produces it but

> not when we eat and need it. You can train the liver to release it if

> you are anal about when you eat. Same times every day will stimulate

> liver to produce bile.

That's the gall bladder. :-)

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

April 26, 2006

That's the extent of my knoledge

On Apr 23, 2006, at 6:09 AM, Parashis wrote:

> People who have had their bile producing gland (what's it called?)

> (age), must still produce bile to digest. Actually, it's the liver that

> produces the bile and the --------- gland that stores it for release

> whenever we eat. Now that's gone and the liver still produces it but

> not when we eat and need it. You can train the liver to release it if

> you are anal about when you eat. Same times every day will stimulate

> liver to produce bile.

>

> On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:26 AM, susan wrote:

>

>> thanks for the tip on bile production! any other quick thoughts on

>> what else stimulates it?

> Parashis

> artpages@...

> zine:

> artpagesonline.com

>

> portfolio:

> http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

>

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> NUTRITION</A> online</LI>

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> message archive with Onibasu</LI>

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>

July 1, 2007

Cod liver oil is very healing. There are several types of vitamin

A -- and most kids are truly deficient in vitamin A> Why? --

Vitamin A is " used up " in response to viruses -- and if your child

had anywhere close to the vaccine schedule -- they have been baraged

with viruses. Here is a reference to HIV and vitamin A

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=170483

(even though the reference here is HIV -- it related to all viruses)

Vitamin A toxicity is NOT an issue I believe-- notice the

dramatically different views

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2382.htm

http://www.danasview.net/vitamina.htm

Personally, I give my son 4 green pastures cod liver oil capsules

every day.

BTW -- to test for vitamin D you have to have both tests -- the VIT

D 1,25 and Vitamin D (25-Hydroxy). The importance is the ratio of

these two. A high hormonal D 1,25 is not good. The goal is a ratio

of about 1 or less. My son's first tests were not good -- a ratio

of nearly 2.0 -- which indicates a high level of inflammation. He's

been at a double cod liver dosage every day -- and is due to have

blood test again in a few weeks.

>

> I am in the process of addressing my daughter's vitamin D

deficiency. It

> had been verified through bloodwork. It seems her milk allergy

caused

> her to malabsorb vitamin D in all that milk she was drinking. To

be sure

> I went back to milk/yogurt a few times and it is clear she hasthe

> allergy. There are food sources to do this but she is not " biting "

> enough and my fear is I do not want her going without for too

long. My

> plan is to get new vitamin intake labs from the DAN! dr but that

takes

> time so I am trying the cod liver oil in the interim. Since I have

not

> tried this previously, any information any veterans could give me

would

> be appreciated. My gut is telling me to give a low doseage until

we get

> the second labs since my reading tells me about the dangers of

excessive

> vitamin A. Sadly, I don't think we are in that much danger since

> daughter is not cooperating in eating vitamin A-rich foods these

days.

> I'll keep trying, pureeing, and bartering (corn and potato chips

are

> currency these days).

>

> Thanks!

> Liz

>

July 1, 2007

I am sort of taking a computer break so I have not read the links yet

but thanks so very much in advance. As for the bloodwork thing, thanks

again as I'll review what we have and what we need before the DAN! Dr.

mommtlc wrote:

>Cod liver oil is very healing. There are several types of vitamin

>A -- and most kids are truly deficient in vitamin A> Why? --

>Vitamin A is " used up " in response to viruses -- and if your child

>had anywhere close to the vaccine schedule -- they have been baraged

>with viruses. Here is a reference to HIV and vitamin A

>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=170483

>(even though the reference here is HIV -- it related to all viruses)

>

>Vitamin A toxicity is NOT an issue I believe-- notice the

>dramatically different views

>http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2382.htm

>http://www.danasview.net/vitamina.htm

>

>Personally, I give my son 4 green pastures cod liver oil capsules

>every day.

>

>BTW -- to test for vitamin D you have to have both tests -- the VIT

>D 1,25 and Vitamin D (25-Hydroxy). The importance is the ratio of

>these two. A high hormonal D 1,25 is not good. The goal is a ratio

>of about 1 or less. My son's first tests were not good -- a ratio

>of nearly 2.0 -- which indicates a high level of inflammation. He's

>been at a double cod liver dosage every day -- and is due to have

>blood test again in a few weeks.

>

>>I am in the process of addressing my daughter's vitamin D

>>

>deficiency. It

>

>>had been verified through bloodwork. It seems her milk allergy

>>

>caused

>

>>her to malabsorb vitamin D in all that milk she was drinking. To

>>

>be sure

>

>>I went back to milk/yogurt a few times and it is clear she hasthe

>>allergy. There are food sources to do this but she is not " biting "

>>enough and my fear is I do not want her going without for too

>>

>long. My

>

>>plan is to get new vitamin intake labs from the DAN! dr but that

>>

>takes

>

>>time so I am trying the cod liver oil in the interim. Since I have

>>

>not

>

>>tried this previously, any information any veterans could give me

>>

>would

>

>>be appreciated. My gut is telling me to give a low doseage until

>>

>we get

>

>>the second labs since my reading tells me about the dangers of

>>

>excessive

>

>>vitamin A. Sadly, I don't think we are in that much danger since

>>daughter is not cooperating in eating vitamin A-rich foods these

>>

>days.

>

>>I'll keep trying, pureeing, and bartering (corn and potato chips

>>

>are

>

>>currency these days).

>>

>>Thanks!

>>Liz

>>

>

July 1, 2007

I did read the stuff you sent. Intestinal measles sounds plausible for

son. I can't find daughters labs to see. Can you tell me what pastures

are??? Are you using liquid? Capsules? NNbrand? Thanks for the help. I

keep fogetting to buy Dr. Mccandless book. I will do so ASAP. It seems

like the guide I have been looking for.

Liz wrote:

>I am sort of taking a computer break so I have not read the links yet

>but thanks so very much in advance. As for the bloodwork thing, thanks

>again as I'll review what we have and what we need before the DAN! Dr.

>

>mommtlc wrote:

>

>>Cod liver oil is very healing. There are several types of vitamin

>>A -- and most kids are truly deficient in vitamin A> Why? --

>>Vitamin A is " used up " in response to viruses -- and if your child

>>had anywhere close to the vaccine schedule -- they have been baraged

>>with viruses. Here is a reference to HIV and vitamin A

>>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=170483

>>(even though the reference here is HIV -- it related to all viruses)

>>

>>Vitamin A toxicity is NOT an issue I believe-- notice the

>>dramatically different views

>>http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2382.htm

>>http://www.danasview.net/vitamina.htm

>>

>>Personally, I give my son 4 green pastures cod liver oil capsules

>>every day.

>>

>>BTW -- to test for vitamin D you have to have both tests -- the VIT

>>D 1,25 and Vitamin D (25-Hydroxy). The importance is the ratio of

>>these two. A high hormonal D 1,25 is not good. The goal is a ratio

>>of about 1 or less. My son's first tests were not good -- a ratio

>>of nearly 2.0 -- which indicates a high level of inflammation. He's

>>been at a double cod liver dosage every day -- and is due to have

>>blood test again in a few weeks.

>>

>>>I am in the process of addressing my daughter's vitamin D

>>>

>>deficiency. It

>>

>>>had been verified through bloodwork. It seems her milk allergy

>>>

>>caused

>>

>>>her to malabsorb vitamin D in all that milk she was drinking. To

>>>

>>be sure

>>

>>>I went back to milk/yogurt a few times and it is clear she hasthe

>>>allergy. There are food sources to do this but she is not " biting "

>>>enough and my fear is I do not want her going without for too

>>>

>>long. My

>>

>>>plan is to get new vitamin intake labs from the DAN! dr but that

>>>

>>takes

>>

>>>time so I am trying the cod liver oil in the interim. Since I have

>>>

>>not

>>

>>>tried this previously, any information any veterans could give me

>>>

>>would

>>

>>>be appreciated. My gut is telling me to give a low doseage until

>>>

>>we get

>>

>>>the second labs since my reading tells me about the dangers of

>>>

>>excessive

>>

>>>vitamin A. Sadly, I don't think we are in that much danger since

>>>daughter is not cooperating in eating vitamin A-rich foods these

>>>

>>days.

>>

>>>I'll keep trying, pureeing, and bartering (corn and potato chips

>>>

>>are

>>

>>>currency these days).

>>>

>>>Thanks!

>>>Liz

>>>

>>

February 10, 2009

Cod liver oil is not the formula of oil that has the best results for

the majority here. Cod liver oil or CLO is higher in DHA than EPA

with no GLA. As new parents we think all fish oils are the same -but

they aren't. Now if you are just looking for healthy -in small

dosages CLO would be. It has been used for generations for health.

Careful about higher dosages however because any fish oil made from

the liver of the fish naturally contains vitamin A which you have to

be careful with since it's a fat soluble vitamin.

Not sure from what you wrote if your child has a simple delay in

speech based on what you wrote. What are the 10 words? How clear are

they?

If you are looking for the best formula I have a huge amount of easy

to access information up at our new CHERAB Facebook page

http://www.apraxia.org

Below is an old archive which has worked for the majority for a decade

now.

I have just put up new member info at

our new CHERAB facebook page at the discussion board:

(under " Newly diagnosed with apraxia info " )

Think this is the direct link but don't know for sure:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1131155429 & ref=name#/topic.php?uid=115029\

\

735601 & topic=7329

If not you can find it here

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115029735601

The rest is an archive on EFAs.

I do plan on cleaning up the following and putting this up there too

to make it easier for everyone to find all on one page.

(LOVE FB!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following is an old EFA archive from this group which has worked

in this group for years so it's up on the Speechville message

board.

Recently there are a few members who are staying with the same

formula -but raising the dosage to multi dosing two to three times a

day and anecdotally they are observing even more dramatic and

accelerated surges. Due to recent messages I want to clarify that

the following was for the average new member who in the majority

will have a child that is 2 to 4 years old. If your child is around

5 or older you will probably want to start at one a day just for a

week or so and then increase right away to two. Not that you won't

see any changes on the lower dosage but for older children the one a

day (which is comparable to the dosage in infant formula) may not be

enough. Most see the first surges in a day to three weeks almost

across the board. If following a low dose program -most see the

first plateau somewhere between 3-6 months and the second somewhere

between 6 months to a year following the lower dosage way. We don't

know yet as a group if and when plateaus are reached with higher

dosage supplementation. If however you hit a plateau at any point -

you probably want to look to increase dosage -especially if you are

at one a day with a 4 year old say.

You can run by your child's MD -start with the basic and observe and

go from there. With fish oils typically the changes are within one

day to three weeks almost across the board -so you'll know pretty

soon whether it's " working " ! Let us know the good news!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What fish oil should I give to my baby or child?

The confusion is more the brand names than the formulas. In

actuality there really is no such thing as a " children's EFA "

perfect for all children yet. However fish oils can be marketed to

children by making fun flavorings and smaller capsules. Most of

the parents I know squeeze the oil out of the capsule anyway -so

that's besides the point for most of our group.

EFAs are now in baby formula and food, and EFAs come and are used in

a variety of formulas for children for various reasons. Mainly we

hear about the use of them for healthy brain development in regards

to children and they are even proven to help with asthma!

Dosage that was used for years (again today it's a bit higher faster)

" I will use the following examples with the brand name ProEFA since

that's the formula/dosage that seems to work the best for most of us

(Efalex and EyeQ are similar Omega 3/6 formulas that also have good

reports) For any brand name of Omega 3/6 formula -you could make

the same formula by mixing together fish oil and either primrose or

borage seed oil if you prefer -or as found -another brand

name with a similar formula (and I hope also a good quality)

If you mix two fish oils together which is fine if you know why you

are doing that: Look at the amount of DHA, EPA (Omega 3) and the

amount of GLA (Omega 6) and then add them all together to see what

formula and dosage you now have is. So for those of you that ask -

you can mix any brand names together you would like -however what

you could change is the three things above (dosage, formula and

*quality (*if one of the companies you start using has rancid oils

which is not uncommon when it comes to fish oils -so make sure all

brands you use are pure) Keep in mind in anecdotal feedback done by

parents from all over through CHERAB -that pure Omega 3 or pure

Omega 6 either showed no results -or very little results in almost

all cases. Pure Omega 3 would include pure cod liver oil, fish oil,

flax seed oil without any Omega 6. So even though there is only a

small amount of GLA (Omega 6) in the formulas we found to be

successful -GLA appears to be important to be there for some

reason. GLA has anti-inflammatory properties which perhaps enable

to DHA and EPA to get to where it's needed in the brain?

Dosage of one capsule a day ProEFA that at the lowest dosage appears

to be the best -

148 mg EPA

99 mg DHA

40 mg GLA

There is much more in the archives both here -as well as more

information at

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

EFA tips and sources

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efabasics.html

About mercury and fish oil (vs. eating fish)

" Fish oils have been tested for various heavy metals like mercury

and there has been enough preliminary proof through studies, as well

as theory from reputable sources, that as I've posted many times

I've heard that the oils from fish may be the safest way to get the

benefits of the EFAs without the toxins due to the fact that mercury

etc. binds to the proteins/muscles of the fish. " Measurement of

mercury levels in concentrated over-the-counter fish oil

preparations: is fish oil healthier than fish? "

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

And one other thing to keep in mind for those like me who do eat

both fish and take fish oil, there are toxins in the fish you eat

that won't be in the oil For example while mercury etc. binds to

the protein (muscle of the fish) so it's not in the oil of the

fish. From what I've read -the largest problem with fish oil itself

is rancidity. Oxygen and fish oil doesn't mix well. Pharmaceutical

brands of fish oil are typically tested low in peroxide

levels/rancidity. Consumer Reports had this to say (most likely

because toxins in many cases bind to the protein and most oils are

not tested for rancidity)

" Consumer Reports tested 16 top-selling fish-oil pills which, like

other supplements, aren't closely regulated by the FDA.

Consumer Reports' Metcalf says the test results are

reassuring, " We found that all 16 brands that we tested had the

amount of Omega-3s that they said they did, which is good news. And,

we don't always find that with supplements. "

Since fish can contain toxins, Metcalf says Consumer Reports also

checked the supplements for purity, " We tested for three kinds of

toxins that often appear in fish - mercury, dioxin, and PCBs. "

Testers didn't find significant levels of toxins in any of the pills

tested, so you don't have to worry about contaminants. "

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/features/consumerwatch/consumer_070303_omega3.html

" The omega-3 fatty acids offer some unique benefits, should they

prove to be truly effective mood stabilizers. The advantages of the

omega-3 fatty acids as mood stabilizers include the apparent acute

efficacy in both the manic and depressive phases of bipolar

disorder, their lack of toxicity, as well as high patient

acceptance. In addition, omega-3 fatty acids confer some health

benefits during chronic use, such as possible reduction in the risk

of a fatal myocardial infarction. In addition, the omega-3 fatty

acids have no documented adverse drug interactions, and appear to be

safe (and possibly beneficial) in pregnancy and in children. "

http://ods.od.nih.gov/news/conferences/w6w3_abstracts.html

" I had the wonderful opportunity to hear ph Hibbeln, M.D.,

Chief, Outpatient Clinic National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol

Abuse, NIH, Bethesda, land at the First Apraxia Conference

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.htm lecture about the

importance of PUFA -especially during pregnancy when you are growing

a brain inside you. If you don't consume enough PUFAs while

pregnant -the babies body will pull it from the mother's body. It's

his theory and research as to why so many mom's experience post

partum depression. http://www.beachpsych.com/pages/cc46.html In

additionit is proven that the PUFAs are important for cognitive

ability. http://neuroscience.nih.gov/Lab.asp?Org_ID=352

Here is a quote from the US Department of Agriculture,

Environmental Chemistry Laboratory, Agricultural Research Service,

20705, Beltsville, MD, USA

Brain-specific lipids from marine, lacustrine, or terrestrial food

resources: potential impact on early African Homo sapiens. The

polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) composition of the mammalian

central nervous system is almost wholly composed of two long-chain

polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC-PUFA), docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)

and arachidonic acid (AA). PUFA are dietarily essential, thus normal

infant/neonatal brain, intellectual growth and development cannot be

accomplished if they are deficient during pregnancy and lactation.

Uniquely in the human species, the fetal brain consumes 70% of the

energy delivered to it by mother. DHA and AA are needed to construct

placental and fetal tissues for cell membrane growth, structure and

function. Contemporary evidence shows that the maternal circulation

is depleted of AA and DHA during fetal growth. Sustaining normal

adult human brain function also requires LC-PUFA.Homo sapiens is

unlikely to have evolved a large, complex, metabolically expensive

brain in an environment which did not provide abundant dietary LC-

PUFA.

http://www.unl.ac.uk/ibchn/e_Link/cbpbbmb2002.htm

Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

maybe about two to three weeks now.

OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

the original diagnosis was correct as well.

Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

ready " comments should be expected of course.

Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

have truly hit a paradigm shift...

As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

Especially those started at younger ages.

The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is

either...

Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

on it "

Difference between Omega 3/6 oils and other types of oils like CLO

ProEFA is an Omega 3 (DHA and higher EPA) formula with a small

amount of Omega 6 (GLA) The Omega 3 in the ProEFA is from fish oil -

not from the liver of the fish -so no vitamin A. Only fish oil made

from the liver of the fish contain vitamin A.

Children's DHA is cod liver oil which since it's from the liver of

the cod fish, it naturally contains Vitamin A. Cod liver oil only

contains Omega 3 (DHA and EPA) Here's some information from the

professional anecdotal feedback which is part of the history of this

group http://www.cherab.org/information/historyEFA.html

" Most of our experience is with one, 1.0 gram capsule of ProEFA

(Complete Omega) that contains 144 mg EPA, 99 mg DHA and 40 mg of

GLA. We know that this combination appeared to work well. There

were some other supplements used but we could not conclude anything

about them. I can only say that both EPA and DHA are important and

GLA appears to have an additional positive effect on speech.

ALA, linoleic and oleic acids in " The Total Omega " contribute very

little to the EPA, DHA, and GLA effect.

I see at least 2 possibilities that you could use if you decide to

make the transition from short-chain omega-3s in plants (flax seed

oil containing alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, C18:2n-3) to the long-

chain mixture of EPA (C20:5n-3) and DHA (C22:6n-3). These are DHA

Jr. (30 mg DHA and 20 mg EPA in a serving unit) and Coromega (350 mg

EPA and 230 mg DHA). Both of these have been anecdotally successful

in the past.

Coromega can be divided in two and taken one half in the morning the

other in the evening. If you choose this mode you will provide your

son with the equivalent EPA+DHA of 2 ProEFA capsules per day without

the GLA.

Flax seed oil or freshly ground flax seeds are an excellent source

of the essential omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA or LNA) which is

the quintessential parent member of the omega-3 family of essential

fatty acids (EFAs). The body transforms it into EPA and the EPA

into DHA. This transformation is very inefficient (the yield is

about 10%) and is further inhibited by over consumption of omega-6

fatty acids from most vegetable oils or certain disease states.

Therefore, it is advisable to independently consume also ready made

EPA and DHA from good quality fish of from high quality fish oil

supplements. Some recommended intakes are listed on the

Introductory lecture on EFAs that I gave at the First Conference on

Therapy of Verbal Apraxia, July 23-24, 2001, town, NJ. (

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html )

The CHERAB Foundation's positive research results on potential

improvement in speech following EFA supplementation are based

on the use of ProEFA (Complete Omega) and that contains also

another essential fatty acid, GLA which is an omega-6 fatty acid.

The latter appears to be beneficial to children with apraxia. It is

not present in flax seed/flaxseed oil.

None of these materials present with any known side effects or

known toxicity in an otherwise healthy person. Nevertheless, we

advise every user of supplements to use them under medical

supervision. We don't know your child and we cannot provide you

with medical advice.

Sincerely,

Katz, Ph.D. "

=====

March 24, 2009

Pati,

Don't force yourself to eat anything. You definitely won't lose

weight if you try forcing food.

Ultimately, you should try the fermented cod liver oil offered at

greenpasture.org, because the fermentation pre-digests it and a number

of people who burp up clo flavor with regular clo do not burp it up

with fermented.

However, you still have a bottle of regular to use. Perhaps try it on

a very empty stomach. Dr. Mike, who used to be on this list, said

taking it at least an hour away on both ends from any other food

worked in post people.

Or you could try taking it with a lipase supplement, or with raw egg

yolks, raw milk, or some other raw fatty food that would contain

lipase.

Chris

On 3/24/09, byroncenterfarmgirl <byroncenterfarmgirl@...> wrote:

> I read " EAT FAT, LOSE FAT " over the weekend. Picked up cod liver oil

> yesterday at the health food store. Took a teaspoonful last night, and have

> been burping ever since. I work nights so it would be like taking it in the

> am before work. Any suggestions? I am not afraid of good fats. Just feel

> like I am eating too much fat. Coconut oil, wild atlantic fish oil, and now

> cod liver oil. In addition to my normal butter and pork and beef. On the

> bright side I am never hungry<VBG>. Have been doing a low carb high fat diet

> since 1/06/09 for weight loss. But the cod liver oil has put me over the

> top. And I am only able to get in 1 tablespoon of the coconut oil per day. I

> am 57 years old, 5ft 3in, female. half way to my goal weight of 125. Would

> be greatful for your feedback. Thanks, Pati

>

March 24, 2009

The key to doing Eat Fat Lose Fat is the Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, which is

different than other kinds of fat. It is full of lauric acid, which is

antibacterial and antiviral. It also has capric acid, which helps to make it

antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory. It's unique - it's not just another fat -

it's a *medium* chain saturated fatty acid - not all fatty acids are alike.

If I remember correctly the EFLF program calls for 3 to 6 tablespoons of coconut

oil per day, depending on your height. 1 tablespoon per day won't do it.

If you are taking the Atlantic fish oil for the Omega-3's then you may be able

to get this by taking the cod liver oil instead. Read the labels carefully - not

all cod liver oils are the same - but some provide excellent quantities of

Omega-3's and then you would be able to consider dropping the Atlantic fish oil.

Finally, in my personal opinion, I don't think it's possible to get " too much

fat " - at least not too much good, saturated fat. First, I think that we reach a

different level of satiety with saturated fats, and come to a natural " limit "

sooner. Also, I believe highly in the benefits found in saturated fats and

meats, and I really question if it's possible to eat too much of either. I may

be wrong, but I believe the body can digest saturated fats and meats optimally

(unlike carbohydrates).

Lis

>

> I read " EAT FAT, LOSE FAT " over the weekend. Picked up cod liver

> oil yesterday at the health food store. I am not afraid of good

> fats. Just feel like I am eating too much fat. Coconut oil, wild

> atlantic fish oil, and now cod liver oil. In addition to my normal

> butter and pork and beef. On the bright side I am never hungry<VBG>.

> But the cod liver oil has put me over the top. And I am only able to

> get in 1 tablespoon of the coconut oil per day.

March 24, 2009

Lis,

> Finally, in my personal opinion, I don't think it's possible to get " too

> much fat " - at least not too much good, saturated fat. First, I think that

> we reach a different level of satiety with saturated fats, and come to a

> natural " limit " sooner. Also, I believe highly in the benefits found in

> saturated fats and meats, and I really question if it's possible to eat too

> much of either. I may be wrong, but I believe the body can digest saturated

> fats and meats optimally (unlike carbohydrates).

It's really easy to eat beyond satiety with whatever you eat. All you

have to do is regard an external clue, like how many tablespoons to

eat, as your criterion for stopping instead of listening to your body

and obeying your satiety signal. Doing that is an easy way to get

fat. People on this and other lists have reported gaining weight and

losign weight with EFLF. I'm guessing the people who gained weight

were probably the ones trying to fulfill recommendations at the

expense of listening to their bodies.

Chris

March 24, 2009

Actually, in EFLF, Sally recommends 1 tablespoon 30 minutes before each meal,

unless you weigh over 200 lbs, then 2 tablespoons. The amount is based on

weight, not height.

Kathy

---- succeed_2 <succeed_2@...> wrote:

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