Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 In a message dated 1/10/05 7:03:15 AM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > > So, it's usually the withdrawl symptoms from stopping medication, not > the lack of medication in their system, and not the disease itself > that can make say schizophrenics (and others) violent.....? > > You got it!!!! That's exactly what happens, although there are cases of people going whacko on SSRIs but usually it's after an increase in dosage, or a sudden cessation of the drug. " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 In a message dated 1/10/05 7:03:15 AM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > > So, it's usually the withdrawl symptoms from stopping medication, not > the lack of medication in their system, and not the disease itself > that can make say schizophrenics (and others) violent.....? > > You got it!!!! That's exactly what happens, although there are cases of people going whacko on SSRIs but usually it's after an increase in dosage, or a sudden cessation of the drug. " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. I hope this helps. Hang in there. All the best, Robyn ________________________________ From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@...> Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM Subject: Violence My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 My son, who is three and a half, is not verbal. He has always been very, very ANGRY. But not violently so until quite recently. Why would his viral titers be going up is he is on all of these medications to bring them down? Is that an indication that we are not on the right medications or addressing the wrong things yet? I know we are still fine tuning his treatment and I am reluctant to stop medications too soon as I never know if his violence is due to die off but enough's enough already! I have never encountered another child as angry as my own and it scares me. What can be done to help curb this anger and make a child more calm? Prozac? I'd prefer things that aren't necessarily medications though. Thanks. > > Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for > others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. > > I hope this helps. Hang in there. > > All the best, > > Robyn > > > > > ________________________________ > From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@...> > > Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM > Subject: Violence > > > My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 > > Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for > others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. > > I hope this helps. Hang in there. > > All the best, > > Robyn > > > > > ________________________________ > From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@...> > > Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM > Subject: Violence > > > My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 How long have you generally given each SSRI a chance before changing it up? We've been trying Paxil for five months. Long enough? What exactly are you looking for with the SSRI? Does no change at all warrant changing the SSRI until something good happens? Just not sure what exactly to hope for with each SSRI. > > > > Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for > > others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. > > > > I hope this helps. Hang in there. > > > > All the best, > > > > Robyn > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@> > > > > Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM > > Subject: Violence > > > > > > My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 With the manic behavior and emotional volatility you mentioned, I'd also suspect that the Paxil might not be a good fit. Is it possible that your son is bipolar? SSRIs are contraindicated for people with bipolar disorder. I know of several cases where the bipolar wasn't diagnosed until SSRIs were tried. Aside from the bipolar issue, it can take several different trials to find the right fit for the SSRI. Definitely something to red flag to the doctor. Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Doctors say that it takes several weeks to see the effects but my son is so sensitive to meds that we always saw changes within the first week or so. On one, he did better at first but then had very dark, scary thoughts a few months in. Gaylen In a message dated 3/22/2010 12:41:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, georgiasand32@... writes: How long have you generally given each SSRI a chance before changing it up? We've been trying Paxil for five months. Long enough? What exactly are you looking for with the SSRI? Does no change at all warrant changing the SSRI until something good happens? Just not sure what exactly to hope for with each SSRI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Sometimes when you first start antivirals, it can 'flush out' the virus (especially HHV6) and you finally start to see the titers, or sometimes they go up. It can be several things, including a 'false' reading before starting antivirals (ie virus was hiding from the immune system, and now being recognized), or the antiviral may be insufficient to suppress whichever virus is going up, and may have to be switched. You didn't switch or add a soy product that he didn't have before, did you?  Soy (soy milk, soy lecithen, but not soybean oil), and some allergy meds like zyrtec and allegra, can also cause violence or a lot of anger and oppositional behavior. Melatonin can too. You don't usually see that immediately after starting those meds but the longer you're on it the worse it is. The dyes in some meds are bad too. Valtrex may need the blue dye washed off (but that's usually hyperactivity or rashes, not rage), pink dye in diflucan (even the very pale dye in the generic), pink dye in tenex can be triggers. SSRIs are always questionable - if all the other factors are not present (allergy meds, dyes, soy), then I would suspect the ssri. You'll find the answer or the problem will pass with more time on meds or changing them up to find a better fit. One of the antifungals (lamisil) made my son very angry recently when the other two have always been great. One antiviral didn't work and another did. I don't think he'll have to be put away. I think you'll come thru the other side in a much better state. HTH - good luck finding the answer. It's not uncommon for the problems to increase at some point.  ________________________________ From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@...> Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 10:04:02 PM Subject: Re: Violence  My son, who is three and a half, is not verbal. He has always been very, very ANGRY. But not violently so until quite recently. Why would his viral titers be going up is he is on all of these medications to bring them down? Is that an indication that we are not on the right medications or addressing the wrong things yet? I know we are still fine tuning his treatment and I am reluctant to stop medications too soon as I never know if his violence is due to die off but enough's enough already! I have never encountered another child as angry as my own and it scares me. What can be done to help curb this anger and make a child more calm? Prozac? I'd prefer things that aren't necessarily medications though. Thanks. > > Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for > others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. > > I hope this helps. Hang in there. > > All the best, > > Robyn > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@ ...> > groups (DOT) com > Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM > Subject: Violence > > > My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 made two great points I had forgotten about. We had to switch allergy meds to Chlortrimetron. Allegra, zyrtec, etc., made one of my kids very anxious and irritable. Secondly, Noah, my most severely affected son, had no viral titers for HHV 6 when he first had labs draw. Dr. G decided to try a challenge with Valtrex and, wow, did that pesky little virus come out of hiding. His numbers skyrocketed. After a couple of months, though, he had die off and was better than ever. HTH, Robyn ________________________________ From: <thecolemans4@...> Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 5:34:24 PM Subject: Re: Re: Violence Sometimes when you first start antivirals, it can 'flush out' the virus (especially HHV6) and you finally start to see the titers, or sometimes they go up. It can be several things, including a 'false' reading before starting antivirals (ie virus was hiding from the immune system, and now being recognized), or the antiviral may be insufficient to suppress whichever virus is going up, and may have to be switched. You didn't switch or add a soy product that he didn't have before, did you? Soy (soy milk, soy lecithen, but not soybean oil), and some allergy meds like zyrtec and allegra, can also cause violence or a lot of anger and oppositional behavior. Melatonin can too. You don't usually see that immediately after starting those meds but the longer you're on it the worse it is. The dyes in some meds are bad too. Valtrex may need the blue dye washed off (but that's usually hyperactivity or rashes, not rage), pink dye in diflucan (even the very pale dye in the generic), pink dye in tenex can be triggers. SSRIs are always questionable - if all the other factors are not present (allergy meds, dyes, soy), then I would suspect the ssri. You'll find the answer or the problem will pass with more time on meds or changing them up to find a better fit. One of the antifungals (lamisil) made my son very angry recently when the other two have always been great. One antiviral didn't work and another did. I don't think he'll have to be put away. I think you'll come thru the other side in a much better state. HTH - good luck finding the answer. It's not uncommon for the problems to increase at some point. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32> groups (DOT) com Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 10:04:02 PM Subject: Re: Violence My son, who is three and a half, is not verbal. He has always been very, very ANGRY. But not violently so until quite recently. Why would his viral titers be going up is he is on all of these medications to bring them down? Is that an indication that we are not on the right medications or addressing the wrong things yet? I know we are still fine tuning his treatment and I am reluctant to stop medications too soon as I never know if his violence is due to die off but enough's enough already! I have never encountered another child as angry as my own and it scares me. What can be done to help curb this anger and make a child more calm? Prozac? I'd prefer things that aren't necessarily medications though. Thanks. > > Is he verbal and was he prone to tantrums before starting the protocol? I have two that are prone to tantrums--so far, though, neither have been really violent (Noah will kick sometimes). Elijah, my youngest, does talking about being violent, mostly in relation to himself. Since he was five (he's 7 now), he would say he was going to kill himself any time we tried to give him a consequence for behavior. He has never, ever hurt himself; he likes seeing reactions to the shocking things he said. Before , I believe he was headed to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. He was been great for the past three months until the last 10 days or so. It could be a couple of different things: meds is one and a uptick in viral titers is another. With my son Noah, I know when his titers creep up. He becomes much more agitated and he has more tantrums. I'm not sure how long your son has been on Paxil. It wasn't good for any of my kids, although I know it works wonders for > others. You may want to go back and look at the updates you sent your doctor (if it's Dr. G). See if there's a correlation between behavior and medicine changes. > > I hope this helps. Hang in there. > > All the best, > > Robyn > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: georgiasand32 <georgiasand32@ ...> > groups (DOT) com > Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 1:57:09 PM > Subject: Violence > > > My son has been with for about six months now and I could really use some help and advice from anyone out there who also has a violent and very angry child. He has gotten increasingly more violent, manic and prone to major tantrums virtually non-stop lately. I don't know if it's the progression of his illness or the result of the medications he's on, which are: Paxil, Imunovir, Ketoconazole, Acyclovir. The therapist who works with him who used to work at a group home told me today that he is going to need to be " put away " soon as he gets bigger and more dangerous. Has anyone out there gone through this terrible ordeal? I would really appreciate some feedback/advice here and would be happy to recieve e-mails off the chatgroup as well if you would prefer. Thank you very much. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Thanks for all of the help. How would I even go about trying to determine whether or not my son is bipolar? Is there a specific test for this? It does not run in the family as far as I am aware. > > With the manic behavior and emotional volatility you mentioned, I'd also > suspect that the Paxil might not be a good fit. Is it possible that your > son is bipolar? SSRIs are contraindicated for people with bipolar disorder. > I know of several cases where the bipolar wasn't diagnosed until SSRIs > were tried. Aside from the bipolar issue, it can take several different > trials to find the right fit for the SSRI. Definitely something to red flag to > the doctor. > Gaylen > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 > > same here, and we are across the Atlantic > > yes seasonal allergies have been mentioned a lot in this context.... > > > > > > We to have experience aggression issue over the last few weeks. It is > interesting that so many parents are seeing this in March. I do not know where > all of these kids live but has anyone considered environmental allergies. I > had a sister with huge allergy problems and if I remember correctly March was > the worst month due to the change in seasons and all of the rain. Could the > wet weather be causing mold issues in the air? > > Bill > > > > From: Googahly@... <mailto:Googahly%40aol.com> <Googahly@... > <mailto:Googahly%40aol.com> > > Subject: Re: Re: Violence > <mailto:%40> > Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 12:52 AM > > Â > > He'd need to be evaluated for it. I think psychologists or psychiatrists > > are usually the ones to do this but a developmental pediatrician may be > > able to as well. > > Gaylen > > In a message dated 3/22/2010 10:31:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > georgiasand32 writes: > > How would I even go about trying to determine whether or not my son is > > bipolar? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the allergy issue is certainly part of this. What are most doing about allergies- are your kids always on something or do you just give them an allergy med at a time like this when pollen is high? Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 My most severely allergic son gets allergy meds every day. The other two get it only when pollen count is high or I notice symptoms. HTH, Robyn ________________________________ From: Colleen Waguespack <colleendesigns@...> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:33:02 AM Subject: Re: Violence I think the allergy issue is certainly part of this. What are most doing about allergies- are your kids always on something or do you just give them an allergy med at a time like this when pollen is high? Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 My son is almost 8, weighs about 48 pounds and gets/has gotten 1/4 Zyrtec tab at bedtime for a couple of years (maybe most of the time he’s been a patient of Dr. G? 4 years +). He has also had periods of several months where he gets a nasal spray, too, like Nasonex, also at bedtime. We’re in Southern California where stuff blooms year round. Kristy Nardini TazziniTM Stainless Steel Bottles www.tazzini.com kristy@... Phone: 858.243.1929 Fax: 858.724.1418 P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Robyn & Greg Coggins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Re: Violence My most severely allergic son gets allergy meds every day. The other two get it only when pollen count is high or I notice symptoms. HTH, Robyn ________________________________ From: Colleen Waguespack <colleendesigns@... <mailto:colleendesigns%40mac.com> > <mailto:%40> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:33:02 AM Subject: Re: Violence I think the allergy issue is certainly part of this. What are most doing about allergies- are your kids always on something or do you just give them an allergy med at a time like this when pollen is high? Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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