Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 > http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm > > Here is a discussion on the methylation that was mentioned. Very > long. It has a question about something on the Pfeiffer site that is > not consistent with other sources. I don't get it either. I'm also curious. Also what I have heard of the results for Pfeiffer patients is not particularly consistent with their hypothesis that overmethylators are folate deficient.. . . . > If anyone is able to find out the > answer from them, please email me. I am not a patient of theirs and > they wouldn't answer my question unless I paid $100 for starters. > > Kare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 on 11/3/03 1:07 AM, Fred Davies at mrrva@... wrote: > My son fits the description of overmethylator. Folic > acid is a problem with him because of allergies. I > think because it provokes histamine reactions, further > lowering the blood's histamine. > > P > > --- steve_rotherham <srotherham@...> wrote: >> >> >> Overmethylation: >> Elevated Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine >> Low Blood Histamine >> Tendency for Anxiety & Depression >> Treatment involves Folic Acid, B-3, B-12, DMAE, >> and AVOIDANCE of Methionine, TMG, Inositol >> >> BUT other authorities believe that folic acid, B12 >> and even >> choline/DMAE enhance methylation. >> > HI, If you go to the Pfeiffer clinic in Illinois then you can get tested for eveything there. They will tell you exactly if your child is over or under methylated. Also whether the child has Malabsorption, Leaky Gut, Pyuloria, etc. well worth the visit. marion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 > A couple of people emailed me offlist asking about methylation- > related supplements. > > The following is what Pfeiffer suggests. > > Undermethylation: > Low Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > Elevated blood histamine > OCD tendencies > Treatment involves methionine, Ca, Mg, DMG/TMG,inositol and avoidance > of folic acid, B12, choline and DMAE supplements > > Overmethylation: > Elevated Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > Low Blood Histamine > Tendency for Anxiety & Depression > Treatment involves Folic Acid, B-3, B-12, DMAE, > and AVOIDANCE of Methionine, TMG, Inositol > So what would they suggest for someone who has both obsessive tendencies AND anxiety? Does blood histamine level have to do with how allergic the person is? Is it related to high IgE? Thanks, Kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 on 10/3/03 3:37 PM, steve_rotherham at srotherham@... wrote: > A couple of people emailed me offlist asking about methylation- > related supplements. > > The following is what Pfeiffer suggests. > > Undermethylation: > Low Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > Elevated blood histamine > OCD tendencies > Treatment involves methionine, Ca, Mg, DMG/TMG,inositol and avoidance > of folic acid, B12, choline and DMAE supplements > > Overmethylation: > Elevated Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > Low Blood Histamine > Tendency for Anxiety & Depression > Treatment involves Folic Acid, B-3, B-12, DMAE, > and AVOIDANCE of Methionine, TMG, Inositol > > BUT other authorities believe that folic acid, B12 and even > choline/DMAE enhance methylation. > > I don't understand this, but I would suggest that parents treating a > kid in either group try out folic acid, B12, choline and DMAe very > cautiously. > > TMG, inositol, Mg and Ca have certainly helped our undermethylated > son. > > I assume is undermethylated as he has benefited from DMG and > TMG. Can you tell us, , how you cope with these other > supplements? > > Steve > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Steve, The twins were diagnosed " borderline methylation " One is doing well on the Taurine, Glycine, B12, Inositol, Cal/Mag, DMG, DMAE The other one is on all this and not doing well at the moment dont know what it is thinking Food allergies are huge with him and supplment allergies might be too. I am writing to Pfeiffer again to ask about Borderline Methylators. take care marion ps. Do you go to Dr. Underwood. You cant be a member of our Woodies group unless you are a patient.....the group made up these rules so we could stick to dedicated people and proper agenda's. Would love to catch up with you some time. Would you welcome a visitor in the Blue Mountains? I am planning on going up there with an American Couple friends of ours for four days. We could meet at a hotel our something for tea, if your pushed at home. LET ME KNOW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Could someone tell me what methylation is? Thank you, Re: methylation > > > A couple of people emailed me offlist asking about methylation- > > related supplements. > > > > The following is what Pfeiffer suggests. > > > > Undermethylation: > > Low Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > > Elevated blood histamine > > OCD tendencies > > Treatment involves methionine, Ca, Mg, DMG/TMG,inositol and > avoidance > > of folic acid, B12, choline and DMAE supplements > > > > Overmethylation: > > Elevated Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine > > Low Blood Histamine > > Tendency for Anxiety & Depression > > Treatment involves Folic Acid, B-3, B-12, DMAE, > > and AVOIDANCE of Methionine, TMG, Inositol > > > > > So what would they suggest for someone who has both obsessive > tendencies AND anxiety? > > Does blood histamine level have to do with how allergic the person > is? Is it related to high IgE? > > Thanks, > Kat > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 > Could someone tell me what methylation is? Methylation is a process by which methyl groups are added to certain chemicals. It's a very important process in our body because very potent chemicals are the result of methylation. One of the most important chemicals used for methylation (methyl groups donor) is S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe). SAMe is made from methionine and it's used for: DNA methylation, production of catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine), melatonin, phospholipids, polyamine, methylation of histamine, etc. SAMe is a very important chemical and methylation is a very important process in our body. After SAMe donates its methyl groups it's transformed into homocysteine. This is where the real problem is because homocysteine is a toxic chemical and if your body cannot recycle it (by transforming it back into methionine), then it accumulates and creates lots of problems (especially for your heart and arteries). Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Valentina gave a good description of methylation....here is link that summarizes a very in-depth discussion of it...some of the links have pictures of the pathways Valentina was describing: http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 i think the extra cystiene genrated by the remethylation of homocysteine is very important. cysteine is a metals tranpsort facilitator if not THE faciliator, thats what i like about simple low level supplements like zinc compared to gluthione is that they are multi factorial and do so much more. though you can over do the zinc and deplete copper to much, the joints start to get a bit sore or rsi but it can be worth getting in the to much zinc area for a while to knock back fungii. cystiene made in this way by the body is slow chelation which is what u want. > Valentina gave a good description of methylation....here is link > that summarizes a very in-depth discussion of it...some of the links > have pictures of the pathways Valentina was describing: > > http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 How might a child's reaction to No Fenol fit in with the under methylation-high histamine " type " ? Benedryl, epsom are good for my child (dx OCD) and lower symptoms. No Fenol sprinkles has worsened symptoms consistently. Or is there nothing about No Fenol that can have any effect on this methylation issue? Maybe I am looking for a connection where there is none? Still trying to make sense of my child's ups and downs... :-) Kathy IN Re: methylation > Valentina gave a good description of methylation....here is link > that summarizes a very in-depth discussion of it...some of the links > have pictures of the pathways Valentina was describing: > > http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm > > . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 > i think the extra cystiene genrated by the remethylation of > homocysteine is very important. No, you don't have this right. Maybe the pictures will help you a little (I posted the URLs in a previous post). Once homocysteine is re-methylated it cannot generate any cysteine. Please take a look at those pictures. If they don't make sense, I can try to explain. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Something else about methylation... Apparently insulin stimulates the re-methylation of homocysteine (back to methionine), and glucocorticoids stimulate the other pathway - the transulfuration to cysteine and sulfate. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I've been looking, too! Hope there will be more info soon. I attended the Autism One conference in Chicago and two of the speakers discussed this in some detail. I was told that copies of the presentations for all of the speakers would be available online soon. Check www.autismone.com. They are not on there yet, but I was told they would be. Alison > Still trying to find some good info. Have searched the archives. Does anyone have a list of under vs over methylated symptoms or a web address to look at please? > TIA > Prue > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 > Are you saying the MB12 route is a more direct route? It doesn't appear that way on the chart. Appears just as indirect or direct as the TMG route. , I am sorry my answer cannot be simple. I promise that after holidays I will try to read more and refresh my memory (I didn't read much in two years, so there's not a whole lot I remember) and will try to explain better. No, I am not saying that the B12 route is a more direct one. Actually quite the opposite. But it's the preferred way. First of all, consider this: From my reading, I understand that BHMT is expressed mostly in liver and kidney. Methionine synthase is expressed in all tissues (including brain). This alone I imagine tells a lot about why it's important to have the pathway working properly. Second, if methionine synthase is not working, you have folate problems. Folate is trapped as 5MTHF and this prevents the synthesis of other THF derivatives necessary for very important functions. There is a cascade of events following. > And we cannot use too much MB12. They constantly say it cannot be absorbed orally, but we gave orally and when we got to 5 grams, we saw aggressive, hypertalking and LOTS of yeast, more than with dmsa/ala. I never gave my son B12 injections. We always used the oral B12 and I have no doubt it is absorbed. Maybe not all of it, but plenty goes where it's needed. > Is it possible that some kids just do not do well on mb12, but do better on tmg? I don't know, but I can see why the body would have a use for supplemental TMG and not for more B12. I was reading somewhere that the liver can store B12 for up to 6 years (I guess a normal healthy liver), but I don't know about TMG... These two are not necessarily used in the body for the same purpose as the one discussed here. > Another note is that we appear to do well with methionine. We use lots of milk and fortify things like breads, pancakes, muffins with dry powdered milk, and as you are sure to know, milk is loaded with methionine. Maybe you could also try B6, see what's happening. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 > I think this was the link to the methylation cycle? Thank you so much, ! I will try to read. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 From Zoe's consult with Flechas 4. How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody levels? Flechas: We watched the antibody levels carefully for several years when we first started supplementing with iodine. We did not notice any changes. They were essentially stable. The antibody levels are not a result of iodine. Iodine actually stabilizes the internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and Hashimoto's. Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels. If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop. (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine). Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple more similar examples.) 5. How does iodine affect the adrenals? Flechas: I don't really know what iodine is doing in the adrenals. The adrenals are absorbing iodine, but I don't know what it is doing with it. Often people can lower their adrenal hormones after supplementing with iodine. Iodine increases the sensitivity to adrenal steroids. Please explain how autoimmunity is treated with Methylation. Verycurious!E (Ellen in Missouri) .. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date: 12/4/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 What is tri-methylglycine and what is it used for? ? Never heard of it before. Thanks! E > > From Zoe's consult with Flechas > > 4. How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody levels? > > Flechas: We watched the antibody levels carefully for several years when we first started supplementing with iodine. We did not notice any changes. They were essentially stable. The antibody levels are not a result of iodine. Iodine actually stabilizes the internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and Hashimoto's. > > Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels. If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop. (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine). Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple more similar examples.) > > > 5. How does iodine affect the adrenals? > > Flechas: I don't really know what iodine is doing in the adrenals. The adrenals are absorbing iodine, but I don't know what it is doing with it. Often people can lower their adrenal hormones after supplementing with iodine. Iodine increases the sensitivity to adrenal steroids. > > > Please explain how autoimmunity is treated with Methylation. Very > curious! > > E (Ellen in Missouri) > > > Recent Activity > a.. 13New Members > b.. 10New Links > c.. 1New Files > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylglycine You can purchase it here: http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00359.html but it's cheaper elsewhere. I only give that source because they of a slew of articles and links at the bottom where you can learn more. Other pages of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine - www.zenpawn.com/vegblog > > What is tri-methylglycine and what is it used for? ? Never heard of > it before. Thanks! > > E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 How would Iodoral effect TgAB? I have benn taking Iodoral 12.5 mg every morning for over a month, and my recent TgAB is over 3000, but TPOAB is only 12 ( normal range). I cut down my Armour Thyroid from 1.5 grain to just 1 grain a day, and I was taking adrenal and thyroid support supplements which include some glander extract. I was also taking high B1. I am no long anemia, but WBC is low. I think I was tested low on B12 sometime ago. I worry that IOdoral is making my TgAB super high. My throid nodule might have been the same size, I am not sure. How does methylation impact autoantibodies? mt I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Can someone give me a defination of methylation? I keep hearing this term, but haven't the foggiest idea what it could mean. Best, http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com http://www.CurlyRescue.com View my Blog ~ http://shellyct.blogspot.com/ If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. -- Hermann Hesse >> Please explain how autoimmunity is treated with Methylation. Very >> curious! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Here is a simplistic explanation of de-methylation. Just reverse the process... intentionally targeting and `gumming up' the genes responsible for Hashimoto's. Gene Silencing. " In many cancers, the specific length of DNA that codes for certain tumor suppressor genes may be covered over with methyl groups. Here is the continuation of our analogy that might turn your stomach. The book with the important " how-to " information is right there in the library, it is not locked up in the stacks, you are even allowed to consult it. But it is of no use because the pages are stuck together with gobs of chewing gum. The book is the tumor suppressor gene that has the information needed, and the methyl groups are the chewing gum that won't let you open the pages, access the information. In other words, it is not enough to gain access to the tumor suppressor gene by controlling the HDAC activity, it is also important to clean all those sticky methyl groups off of the gene. This de-gunking is called de-methylation. In many cancers we need de-methylation as well as HDAC inhibition, to get the tumor suppressor genes working right. These two functions influence each other and there is a lot of back and forth talking between the two processes. " http://clltopics.org/CellBio/Epigenetics.htm --- Ives <mmives@...> wrote: > Can someone give me a defination of methylation? I keep hearing this term, > but haven't the foggiest idea what it could mean. > > Best, > > http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com > http://www.CurlyRescue.com > View my Blog ~ http://shellyct.blogspot.com/ > > If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. > What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. > -- Hermann Hesse > > > > >> Please explain how autoimmunity is treated with Methylation. Very > >> curious! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Ok - That was a terrific site, but I still don't understand how we are to reverse the process. The site was easy to understand and provided good reference materials for DE-methylation. I am now confident I understand the concept and even the process. It also stated that gummed up genes are in danger of becoming cancerous. I don't want to trade Hashi's or Graves for cancer, or worse yet, end up with both. What chemicals and how does methylation occur? (sorry if my foggy brain is just not getting this. I think my eyes are beginning to bleed LOL!) E (Ellen in Missouri) > > > Can someone give me a defination of methylation? I keep hearing this term, > > but haven't the foggiest idea what it could mean. > > > > Best, > > > > http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com > > http://www.CurlyRescue.com > > View my Blog ~ http://shellyct.blogspot.com/ > > > > If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. > > What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us. > > -- Hermann Hesse > > > > > > > > >> Please explain how autoimmunity is treated with Methylation. Very > > >> curious! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. > Ask your question on www.Answers. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 "Betaine is a methyl donor that I am using to lower my thyroid antibodies" Does TgAB also get lowered with Betaine? Can we use B12, folic acid, SAMe as methyl donor to lower TgAB? I found my TPOAB lowered after selenium supplement( I think). mt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hi Everyone, I joined this list about 10 days ago, and am avidly learning-----and thanks to all of you! Meanwhile, the subject of methylation caught my attention sometime in the past year, and I've been reading anything I get my hands on. I found that I'd saved this link: http://tinyurl.com/yhzt6h There are questions asked here to help one determine whether over or under methylation is a personal factor. I seem to fall about 50% on both sides! More to learn, obviously Sharon/starshar (on Armour 120 mg for *years*---cautiously experimenting with Lugol's and hydrocortone, 20 mg in divided doses) ************ From: " " <kennio@...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:00 PM >I would assume TgAB levels would be effected but I have no personal >experience > with this. I found this list... I don't know how accurate it is. > Everything > below is as found online, commentary and all. I am starting to research > some > of the claims. > > -------- > > List of methyl donors > > Here's a list of methyl donors. There may be more I haven't found yet. > > Methionine (amino acid) > Taurine (amino acid containing methionine and cysteine) > SAM or SAMe (s-adenosyl-l-methionine) > TMG and DMG (trimethylglycine & dimethylglycine or betaine/choline) a > methylated amino acid > Methylcobalamin (Methyl-B12) a methylated form of vitamin B12 > Alcohol > Acetic acid (vinegar) > Acetone > MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane)* > > *Some say this " may " be a methyl donor. Looking at some of the stories of > autism cases that have seen results, I'd say it absolutely is. > > There are at least two separate pathways to methylation: > > B12/folic acid pathway > TMG to choline pathway > > How the other methyl donors work or affect these pathways is unknown to me > as > yet. If methylation helps, it seems wise to tackle from both pathways at > once > in case one is deficient. Tests to see which pathway is most effective > should > also be carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Is this the post you found? Did you look at this site? I really like this site (snipped from below) http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm This post below was attached to your " thread. " not sure if you replyed to it or not...but thought I would note it.... elizabeth > > http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm > > Here is a discussion on the methylation that was mentioned. Very > long. It has a question about something on the Pfeiffer site that is > not consistent with other sources. If anyone is able to find out the > answer from them, please email me. I am not a patient of theirs and > they wouldn't answer my question unless I paid $100 for starters. > > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 > > I recently read an archived post stating that Co-Q-10 and l-carnitine were both methyl donors. This is not correct. >It also stated that if your child was overmethalated, it would worsen the problem. How do we know which supplements are methyl donors? How do we find out if our child is over or under methylated? It is an irrelevant concept for almost all the children discussed on this list. > > Thanks > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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