Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 child i know what you are talking about. as a matter of fact. i couldn't help myself and........... bev maloy BIGRD@... bread >From: " Peggy DesNoyers " <peggyd7123@...> > >I am struggling to deal with this candida thing!! Can you guys help me, >please? I have been following the diet pretty well for three weeks and I >feel much, much better. But I am craving bread. I smell it. I can taste >it in my mouth. Can I try eating some of it now? Is it true that you crave >what you are probably allergic to? Am I missing a vitamin or mineral or >something? > >I am taking Yeast Raiders from Puritan's Pride, evening primrose oil, >garlic, VitC, a multivitamin, a multimineral and DHEA. Is there anything >else I should take? The Yeast Raiders has acidolphilus, caprylic acid, >biotin, fiber, vit c, zinc, selenium, barberry, ginger, thyme, cinnamon and >pau d'arco in it. > >And by the way, what is stevia and where do I buy it? Do any of you take >grape seed extract? Does it help? > >Thanks for any help you can give me. I'm starting to feel very lonely in >this. Every body thinks I'm some sort of nut because of my diet. >Peggy > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Got an opinion? > >Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2001 Report Share Posted August 21, 2001 : i used to pass the bakery in the grocery stores and get a headache! Mog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 I have, several times. Once was in a restaurant from bread that was served in a basket. In each case my heart started racing also, which lasted 5-20 minutes before settling back down again. It's a pretty weird experience ... Dave ----------------- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:58:19 -0000 From: phillipandlisa@... Subject: Bread Early today when I opened up a bag of bread I sensed an overwhelming " yeasty " smell that was very strong. I then developed a headache. Has anyone every experienced something like this?? D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 dianatrudeau@... writes: > Thank God that was tongue in cheek... someone has waaaaay too much time on > their hands lol And that's the whole point. That there are those out there who will create " statistics " to prove whatever point they might want to make, but that doesn't make it valid. And yes - that's why I intentionally pointed out that it was tongue-in-cheek in the beginning - to avoid anyone potentially getting worked up about it! rachel~ " The greatest risk is not taking any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 KJ They did it intentionally to prove the point that just because someone comes up with statistics doesn't mean they make sense. rachel~ PEACEJ@... writes: > This is ridiculous! I can't believe someone actually takes time to 'create' > statistics this bad!! > " The greatest risk is not taking any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 Thank God that was tongue in cheek... someone has waaaaay too much time on their hands lol This was posted to the gallstone list in response to the thread about garlic. (Note: This is completely tongue-in-cheek ) ================================= The Dangers of Bread (and all grain products) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 Hi all, This is ridiculous! I can't believe someone actually takes time to 'create' statistics this bad!! God bless, KJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 > > Hi all, > I just joined this group and am so excited to perhaps finally get some > answers to a ton of questions I have about native nutrition/weston > price ideas. > The question I am most curious about concerns sourdough bread. If > flours/grains must be soaked to be good for you...then how is > sourdough bread okay since most of the flour is not " fermented " but > added to the sourdough starter? > - > This is just my guess. But I'm pretty certain I am right. There are 2 ways to remove phytates from grains. One is from soaking alone, where the phytase enzyme from the grain itself is activated and it removes phytic acid. This cannot happen if you soak it in salt water, and acidity speeds up this process greatly. The second way is by fermentation where bacteria (maybe yeasts as well) neutralize the phytic acid, or at least create lots of lactic acid to speed up the process greatly, or maybe both. This can happen in the presence of salt, and happens fast in sourdough bread cause the cultures are extremely live and active when added to the flour. Most of the flour is fermented in sourdough bread, even though it can happen quite fast due to the very active cultures from the sourdough starter. Still, soaked porridge is usually considered easier to digest than sourdough bread, but both are very nutritious and have most/all of the phytic acid removed. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks, . That makes a lot of sense. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 There's a really cool study out of Morocco on sourdough versus yeast bread. I think they fermented it for 16 hours. The phytates in the sourdough were really reduced, like 80 - 90% less while the baking yeast left them pretty much as they were. When you add the flour to the sourdough starter, because it's wild yeast and not genetically modified to be a fast rising type, it takes all day for the bread to r ise. Meanwhile, the lactobacilli and leucostonoc bacteria build up the acidity making it sour and destroy the phytates. There is also some evidence that they destroy toxins from molds that are sometimes on the grains. I think the lactobacilli reach maximum effectiveness at 16 hours, so making the dough and leaving it in the refrigerator overnight will give you maximum sourness and decrease in phytates. By the way, if you're interested in making your own sourdough bread, do you know there are electric grain mills that you can get to grind your own wheat? The " whole wheat " flour in stores is often only 50% whole wheat, and they have trouble with rancidity and nutrients breaking down once it's ground. There's nothing like pure whole grain wheat bread from fresh ground wheat! You don't even need to knead it really, just mix it up, let it sit for half an hour and then knead enough to mix the ingredients well. The gluten develops on it's own! I've made bread with fresh ground flour and " fresh " flour from the health food store and you can tell the difference between the two! Sorry for rambling, I'm really excited about sourdough. > > Hi all, > I just joined this group and am so excited to perhaps finally get some > answers to a ton of questions I have about native nutrition/weston > price ideas. > The question I am most curious about concerns sourdough bread. If > flours/grains must be soaked to be good for you...then how is > sourdough bread okay since most of the flour is not " fermented " but > added to the sourdough starter? > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Hi list! haecklers wrote: > By the way, if you're interested in making your own sourdough bread, > do you know there are electric grain mills that you can get to grind > your own wheat? I have one. An add-on to this thing. Works well, but the sound is horrible! http://www.electrolux.se/node35.asp?ProdID=26149 Sorry that the page is in Swedish. Too lazy to find an English one and I think you can see what it is. I think I've seen stand-alone grain mills too hemul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Thanks for the info. I am excited to start sourdough (again). I have had bad luck in the past. I am very into my homemade 100% whole wheat bread which I finally perfected after throwing loaf after loaf out the backdoor to the birds for 3 straight years. I am kind of dreading starting all over again with a new method. As to grainmills, I have only had store bought flour a couple times and it was totally gross and yes, rancid. I grew up on home-milled flour and got my own mill after my second bag of totally disgusting King Arthur flour. I am very interested if you have any tips on the sourdough. Any time I have attempted it I have ended up with a dense, coarse, and very strong-flavored loaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 > > Thanks for the info. > I am excited to start sourdough (again). I have had bad luck in the > past. I am very into my homemade 100% whole wheat bread which I > finally perfected after throwing loaf after loaf out the backdoor to > the birds for 3 straight years. I am kind of dreading starting all > over again with a new method. > As to grainmills, I have only had store bought flour a couple times > and it was totally gross and yes, rancid. I grew up on home-milled > flour and got my own mill after my second bag of totally disgusting > King Arthur flour. > I am very interested if you have any tips on the sourdough. Any time > I have attempted it I have ended up with a dense, coarse, and very > strong-flavored loaf. , Our own Mrs. Siemens recently raved about some bread she made here: http://onibasu.com/archives/nn/80030.html?highlight=sourdough%20amanda " LOL. Ok to make the sourdough starter I mixed 1 cup of freshly strained kefir (made with real kefir grains not a powdered culture) with 1 cup of freshly ground whole wheat flour. I put it in a jar, covered with a coffee filter held on by an elastic and put it in the cupboard for a few days, stirring it once a day. It would get bubbly and rise, I'd just stir it down and put it back in th cupboard. After a few days I put it into a bowl added one cup of water (don't use chorinated!) and 1 cup fresh ground flour. Covered and let go overnight. next morning I put one cup of that in another bowl, 1 cup in a mason jar and put the jar in the fridge for future bread, to the starter in the bowl I added 3/4 cup water, 1 tsp sea salt, 1 1/5 t honey (not raw), 2 tbsp olive oil or melted butter and mixed well. Stir in 2 1/2 cups flour (now I did cheat this time and used half fresh ground whole wheat and half white bread flour, with all my previous failures at sourdough I wanted to make sure this rose as much as possible LOL) When you can't stir anymore in knead on a flourd surface until good and elastic. Put in an oiled bowl, turning so top of dough is coated and place covered in a warm spot until doubled (took about 6 hours). Punch down and knead in a bit more flour if needed until nice and elastic again. Form into a loaf and place in a buttered bread pan (I used stoneware, it;s the best for making sourdough). I let rise again, about 3 hours then baked at 350 until nice and brown. When the top was well browned, I took it out and removed the bread from the pan. I inserted a thermometer into the bottom of the loaf, you want 190F (unless you are at a high altitude then you want 195 or even 200) it wasn't there yet so I put it back in the oven (not in the pan) and draped some tin foil on top because the top was well browned already. I baked until the thermometer read 190. Then cooled it on a rack and sliced it. Next time I will make sure to put a shallow pan of water on the bottom rack of the oven, it makes for a nicer crust on sourdough. " B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 The interesting thing about the Moroccan study, for me, comes down this sentence... " Our most interesting results were found by combining two strains of lactic acid bacteria with one strain of yeast (*L. plantarum *and *Leu. mesenteroides* with *S. cerevisiae*) because of the high DRC (120 mL) and the improvement in phytate reduction (85.4%). " Kefir contains these two strains of lactic acid. After first having read that study, I started using whey in my starter (recipe at http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/), and also use it as part of my liquid when making the bread. Also, mine sits in the fridge for a minimum of 24-hours, and even often up to 48 hours before forming/baking. Sharon, NH On 2/18/06, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > > There's a really cool study out of Morocco on sourdough versus yeast > bread. I think they fermented it for 16 hours. The phytates in the > sourdough were really reduced, like 80 - 90% less while the baking > yeast left them pretty much as they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 --- Would you have an idea how much phytate is in a serving of bread? Dennis In , " Sharon son " <skericson@...> wrote: > > The interesting thing about the Moroccan study, for me, comes down this > sentence... > " Our most interesting results were found by combining two strains of lactic > acid bacteria with one strain of yeast (*L. plantarum *and *Leu. > mesenteroides* with *S. cerevisiae*) because of the high DRC (120 mL) and > the improvement in phytate reduction (85.4%). " > Kefir contains these two strains of lactic acid. After first having read > that study, I started using whey in my starter (recipe at > http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/), and also use it as part of my liquid when > making the bread. Also, mine sits in the fridge for a minimum of 24-hours, > and even often up to 48 hours before forming/baking. > Sharon, NH > > On 2/18/06, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > > > > There's a really cool study out of Morocco on sourdough versus yeast > > bread. I think they fermented it for 16 hours. The phytates in the > > sourdough were really reduced, like 80 - 90% less while the baking > > yeast left them pretty much as they were. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi, Dennis That's a huge question I can't easily answer and boy, I wish I could. For our family, we take the whey-sourdough-sponge route (Rejoice in Life recipe for sponge and bread) eating long slow-rise fermented sourdough bread typically made with sprouted wheat flour combined with some King Arthur unbleached. Phytates are dependent on a number of variables including whether you're talking about white or whole wheat and the pH in the stomach/intestines as well as overall diet, just for openers. Here's a thorough micronutrient doc that shows various phytic acid evaluations, including some of these variables, as well as several study methods just to give you an idea... http://www.micronutrient.org/idpas/pdf/2510PhyticAcidAdded.pdf. Sharon, NH On 2/21/06, dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000@...> wrote: > > --- > Would you have an idea how much phytate is in a serving of bread? > Dennis > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 When I'm feeling less-than-into baking I buy the Alvarado Street brand sprouted bread. It has yeast but the grains are sprouted. I feel good when I eat it but i don't overdo. Danae " Mother's milk and mother's arms have always been available, patiently waiting for the passing of man's foolhardy arrogance, which tried to convince us that his inventions were superior to nature. " Tine Thevenin Baby boys are the only group in society having medically unnecessary surgery without their consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 If it's sourdough, the bacteria in it that make it sour destroy most of the phytates; regular yeast, probably. > > In NT, we all know that it is important to soak grains. If you are > getting the " healthier " bread like the Food for Life bread, and if > it's not sprouted should one assume that you are getting the mineral > blocking phytic acids? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Danae wrote: > When I'm feeling less-than-into baking I buy the Alvarado Street >brand sprouted bread. It has yeast but the grains are sprouted. I feel >good when I eat it but i don't overdo. ~~~Another really great bread is Silver Hills. It is made with sprouted wheat. It does have vital wheat gluten and yeast. But it's probably about the best tasting sprouted bread I've ever had. http://www.silverhillsbakery.ca/ Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 On 6/16/06, crayfishfeed <crayfishfeed@...> wrote: > In NT, we all know that it is important to soak grains. If you are > getting the " healthier " bread like the Food for Life bread, and if > it's not sprouted should one assume that you are getting the mineral > blocking phytic acids? If it isn't long-rise sourdough and it isn't sprouted, it's got all the phytates. I wouldn't be so sure about a sourdough unless you knew it was fermented for 24 hours or so. I doubt a sourdough that is fermented for a couple hours has that much of the phytate broken down. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 > > In NT, we all know that it is important to soak grains. If you are > > getting the " healthier " bread like the Food for Life bread, and if > > it's not sprouted should one assume that you are getting the mineral > > blocking phytic acids? > > If it isn't long-rise sourdough and it isn't sprouted, it's got all > the phytates. > > I wouldn't be so sure about a sourdough unless you knew it was > fermented for 24 hours or so. I doubt a sourdough that is fermented > for a couple hours has that much of the phytate broken down. > > Chris > I thought when soaking grains, 7 hrs was supposed to be the magic number in order to neutralize the phytates? Is it different for sourdoughs, etc? French Meadow Bakery leavens their bread for 6-8 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 On 6/17/06, Alessandra <superunpop@...> wrote: > I thought when soaking grains, 7 hrs was supposed to be the magic > number in order to neutralize the phytates? Is it different for > sourdoughs, etc? French Meadow Bakery leavens their bread for 6-8 hrs. There's no magic number. You soak for a short time, you eliminate less, for a long time, more. The usual methods only reduce the phytate, rather than eliminate it. Presumably longer soaking/fermenting times accomplishes more. Most of the abstracts I found in a quick poke around did not mention soaking times in the abstract, but none of them found complete elimination of phytates. Here's an example. J Agric Food Chem. 2001 Feb;49(2):692-8. Related Articles, Links Assessment of home-based processing methods to reduce the phytate content and phytate/zinc molar ratio of white maize (Zea mays). Hotz C, Gibson RS. Department of Human Nutrition, P.O. Box 56, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand. chotz@... Various methods of processing maize suitable for household use in rural Malawi, Central Africa, were investigated for their ability to reduce its phytate content and phytate/zinc molar ratio. These methods included fermentation, germination, and soaking. Penta- and hexainositol phosphates were measured by HPLC, and zinc was measured by atomic absorption spectrophotometry. Natural lactic fermentation of maize flour slurries resulted in 88% phytate retention compared to unprocessed, unrefined maize flour porridges, whereas lower phytate retention was observed when a starter culture (61%) or germinated flour (71%) was also used. Fermentation of cooked maize flour porridges with germinated flour added resulted in 54-85% retention of phytate compared to controls. Soaking maize flour or pounded maize and decanting excess water resulted in 43 and 49% retention of phytate, respectively. The latter soaking procedures were simple and effective and were suitable for household use in rural Malawian communities. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Soaking also depends on the grain. You soak millet and rice for 7 hours. You soak spelt and kamut for 12 hours. Christy On 6/17/06, Alessandra <superunpop@...> wrote: > I thought when soaking grains, 7 hrs was supposed to be the magic > number in order to neutralize the phytates? Is it different for > sourdoughs, etc? French Meadow Bakery leavens their bread for 6-8 hrs. There's no magic number. You soak for a short time, you eliminate less, for a long time, more. The usual methods only reduce the phytate, rather than eliminate it. Presumably longer soaking/fermenting times accomplishes more. Most of the abstracts I found in a quick poke around did not mention soaking times in the abstract, but none of them found complete elimination of phytates. Here's an example. J Agric Food Chem. 2001 Feb;49(2):692-8. Related Articles, Links Assessment of home-based processing methods to reduce the phytate content and phytate/zinc molar ratio of white maize (Zea mays). Hotz C, Gibson RS. Department of Human Nutrition, P.O. Box 56, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand. chotz@... Various methods of processing maize suitable for household use in rural Malawi, Central Africa, were investigated for their ability to reduce its phytate content and phytate/zinc molar ratio. These methods included fermentation, germination, and soaking. Penta- and hexainositol phosphates were measured by HPLC, and zinc was measured by atomic absorption spectrophotometry. Natural lactic fermentation of maize flour slurries resulted in 88% phytate retention compared to unprocessed, unrefined maize flour porridges, whereas lower phytate retention was observed when a starter culture (61%) or germinated flour (71%) was also used. Fermentation of cooked maize flour porridges with germinated flour added resulted in 54-85% retention of phytate compared to controls. Soaking maize flour or pounded maize and decanting excess water resulted in 43 and 49% retention of phytate, respectively. The latter soaking procedures were simple and effective and were suitable for household use in rural Malawian communities. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 > I just bought 1gal Coconut oil UNREFINED organic from Mountain rose > herbs for $28. blue ice code liver oil 96 doses for $22.90 + $10 > shipping. you recommend them ? Please let me know if you can find > better deals. > > > tks > This is the best price I've found for blue ice CLO http://www.building-health.com/foodstore.html#CLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 > > Hi Bee, > > I have no more die off symptoms and feeling more concentrated and > energetic. Am I ready for probiotic? ==>Sounds like you can start on probiotics . > > Thanks for your reply. I am skipping the icecream until I am heal. > Is there any substitute for bread? If we must eat bread, which type is acceptable? ==>Properly prepared grains, which are soaked properly, or sprouted or sour dough prepared, which are non-gluten and are not mycotoxic (fungal poisons), i.e. buckwheat, millet, quinoa, amaranth, and brown rice. > > I just bought 1gal Coconut oil UNREFINED organic from Mountain rose herbs for $28. blue ice code liver oil 96 doses for $22.90 + $10 shipping. you recommend them ? Please let me know if you can find better deals. ==>Those are great prices. Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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