Re: herxing from rife

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Even though there are no side-effects from Rife, you will still experience

symptoms from die-off if you are killing pathogens. Herxheimer's is what we

call the die-off symptoms. It's quite possible that some of your discomfort is

also from over-exertion. Of course, it's always possible that cysts have opened

and released active spirochetes. But since you have just done a treatment, it's

probably a herx. I hope so!

Khaya

>

> hi everyone,

> i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness

flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off

antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming

out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another

question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything

to detox from?

> thanks, karen

>

[Guest guest]

, you are highlighting one of the difficulties we face with this treatment,

trying to determine what is herx and what is from other causes. Typically, this

just takes time and observation.

It sounds like it could be a herx to me. If so, if it lasts more than 3 days,

you will need to cut back the time on your next treatment.

Rife kills the organisms but the body still has to clear out the dead debris and

the biotoxins expelled when they die. Hence DETOX!

Sherry

>

> hi everyone,

> i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness

flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off

antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming

out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another

question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything

to detox from?

> thanks, karen

>

[Guest guest]

thanks, khaya. hope you are well. since i'm not sure what the sy mptoms are, don't know whether to do another treatment. : (

Subject: Re: herxing from rifeTo: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 9:34 PM

Hi ,Even though there are no side-effects from Rife, you will still experience symptoms from die-off if you are killing pathogens. Herxheimer's is what we call the die-off symptoms. It's quite possible that some of your discomfort is also from over-exertion. Of course, it's always possible that cysts have opened and released active spirochetes. But since you have just done a treatment, it's probably a herx. I hope so!Khaya >> hi everyone,> i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming out

of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?> thanks, karen>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do not know however moslty when I ask to myself the same question soon I discovere that is was both herx and the spiroteche swaking up as well or coinfections .

I have been detoxing detoxing detoxing for 3 weeks still strugglin and since two day I did throrought killing as well: ozone im ozone insuffaltion + rife + Silver rectally several time a day . And I did have an imporvement.

So obviously it was both once again .

What makes you think you do not need detox with the rife I is the oposite. It kills very well the infection and needs abolutly much detoxification of the dye off as a result .

KIndly Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:34 PMSubject: herxing from rife

hi everyone,i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?thanks, karen

[Guest guest]

Hi R,

Since you did exercised that day, it is a bit more difficult to say where this

was

a disturbance of the pathogens... Not necessarily cysts morphing into

spirochetes,

but rather some killing of spiros and perhaps upsetting a lot more...

The knees are main places for spiros to take up residency and many of us

have some knee issues...

The goal always while exercising is low to no aerobic exercise and keeping

in mind our knees are ofter somewhat more of a problem...

Hopefully this will clear in a few days...

Take care,

Jim

>

> hi everyone,

> i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness

flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off

antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming

out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another

question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything

to detox from?

> thanks, karen

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, you mention 'upsetting' spiros, do medications and rifing stimulate the

little feckers? I had only heard of herx as a product of die off. I have been

expiriencing my longest lyme episode. It started while I was on azithromycin,

then I quit it, and got A LOT worse, then I started again which helped a tiny

bit. Since then I have been taking other herbs and suppliments and then chinese

herbs. I have been getting progressively, although choppily better for the last

month and a half. everyother time I got back on anibiodics I got no herx and it

just remissed. I am still on the anis, but not remiss, not that the azithro

seems to work anyway. Im just confused. A month ago I diagnosed my buddy with

chronic (he wouldnt come to my girls birthday dinner and there were single

females and sushi) (he redilly admitted it was true and had just been in deep

subconscious denial, even his lymph nodes were swollen and he had had chronic

six years ago). anyway, I gave him some of my anibiodics and some herbs and he

herxed like crazy. then two weeks ago he quit, because he needed to work as

this is the push season on the island and he does stone work (yikes) anyway, he

hasnt gotten much better, evn though the herxes should have stopped. He said he

feared he had 'awakend the beast' Im just confused. Thank you very very much.

> >

> > hi everyone,

> > i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and

stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being

off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was

coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized

more strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another

question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything

to detox from?

> > thanks, karen

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Since you are now off abx you will be more likely to experience the moon impact.

We are coming up on the full moon again so Bb is more active. I look at this as

the opportunity to get a good kill opportunity with rife. Just don't overdo.

Sherry

> > >

> > > hi everyone,

> > > i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and

stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being

off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was

coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why

do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?

> > > thanks, karen

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my shins and

started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing the Lyme,

which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart. started growing

and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of Bart.--I wonder if

that's what's going on with you...

Best of luck,

Tara

> > >

> > > hi everyone,

> > > i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and

stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being

off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was

coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why

do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?

> > > thanks, karen

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tara,That's interesting, thanks for sharing that. I've started antibiotics a month ago (cefdinir and clarithromycin) and have had no change in symptoms other than a bit more energy, and an increase in little red dots down my arms and legs that formerly had only been on my torso, and more severe and frequent foot and heel pain (which pain was previously very mild). Makes me wonder if I'm likewise uncovering Bartonella. Thank you for the thought.

Shauna

 

Hi ,

About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my shins and started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing the Lyme, which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart. started growing and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of Bart.--I wonder if that's what's going on with you...

Best of luck,

Tara

[Guest guest]

yes, Tara, thanks so much for your feedback. i certainly hope i don't have bartonella! : ( hope your healing is going well. karen

Hi ,About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my shins and started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing the Lyme, which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart. started growing and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of Bart.--I wonder if that's what's going on with you...Best of luck,Tara

[Guest guest]

thanks, Sherry. if the knee pain is from herxing, shouldn't i wait until it is gone before i do more rifing? karen

Subject: Re: herxing from rifeTo: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 11:22 PM

Since you are now off abx you will be more likely to experience the moon impact. We are coming up on the full moon again so Bb is more active. I look at this as the opportunity to get a good kill opportunity with rife. Just don't overdo.Sherry> > >> > > hi everyone,> > > i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?> > > thanks, karen> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I follow a general rule not to repeat the same antibiotic for at least 3 months.

That's how long I read it would take for the immunity from last time to wear

off. I think it's quite likely that the spriochetes that became dormant in

cyst-form while you were on doxy are now active again. If you can remember how

much worse it was after you rifed, and how it felt before you rifed, that might

help you decide when to rife again. And you either rife or take antibiotics,

not usually both at the same time. I am taking a ten-day course olive leaf,

which is a natural anti-microbial, for this full-moon period, but sometimes I

take Tinadazole or Metronidazole, which target the cyst-form.

Khaya

> > > >

> > > > hi everyone,

> > > > i did an emem treatment on Friday and the next day my knee pain and

stiffness flared up badly and continues. I just hit the 2 month mark of being

off antibiotics. didn't know whether this flare up was because the lyme was

coming out of cysts or this was a herx from the treatment. i also exercized more

strenuously that day than i had in 2 months. any ideas? another question...why

do we herx from rifing when it is not supposed to leave anything to detox from?

> > > > thanks, karen

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Little red dots, foot and heel pain--sounds like Bartonella!!

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my shins

> > and started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing the

> > Lyme, which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart. started

> > growing and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of

> > Bart.--I wonder if that's what's going on with you...

> >

> > Best of luck,

> > Tara

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,I thought the little red dots were Babesia, any thoughts? Cheers From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of h2otaraSent: Friday, 1 June 2012 9:49 AMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: herxing from rife Little red dots, foot and heel pain--sounds like Bartonella!!> > > **> >> >> > Hi ,> >> > About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my shins> > and started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing the> > Lyme, which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart. started> > growing and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of> > Bart.--I wonder if that's what's going on with you...> >> > Best of luck,> > Tara> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi, this discussion was brought up a while ago and it seems like half said babs

and the other bart. I have them....but I have both bart and babs too....who

knows. But I wish I new which one it was! Jodie L.

> >

> > > **

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > About a month after I started coiling for Lyme I got red dots on my

> shins

> > > and started getting shin pain. It turns out that when I started killing

> the

> > > Lyme, which was keeping my unknown Bartonella suppressed, the Bart.

> started

> > > growing and I started getting symptoms. Anxiety can be a symptom of

> > > Bart.--I wonder if that's what's going on with you...

> > >

> > > Best of luck,

> > > Tara

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To bad ther eis nto the remaining of the previosu post .

I think silica as some what properties for detoxification of the heavy metal if I am not rong .

I di dbiosil and got nothing special depend on what is ha[ppeneing in the body I guess.

KIndly Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 5:57 PMSubject: Re: Re: herxing from rife

Interesting factlet, Shauna! I will keep that in mind.

Re: Re: herxing from rife

If you try Biosil and start spontaneously getting panic attacks, it might be a side effect of the Biosil. I had to discontinue Biosil due to side effects. Interesting that someone else said DE gave them panic attacks, and DE is also rich in silica. Wonder why silica should do that to a person?

Shauna

I think you'd do much better with soluble silica, like Biosil, than with diatomaceous earth.

Ellen

[Guest guest]

I too am coiling for Bart and have just been through a few days of being so light headed that I felt I had been drinking which I had not. It was scary and after reading up and finding others with the same symptoms I felt a little better. It has still caused me to not treat as aggressively or often as I should, yet I know I need to step it up to get better. My family is all doing Bart twice a day because of its fast life cycle and I am stepping up to this now. The bugs know just what to do to stop us from treating I think! Nice to know others are having the same symptoms. Cheers From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of C MellmanSent: Friday, 1 June 2012 11:59 PMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: herxing from rife Interesting this whole skin thing. 10 years ago I started having problems with sun exposure. If I was in the sun for awhile (1 hour or more), even with sunscreen I would develop, what I came to call it, an invisible rash. There was nothing on my skin but it would get extremely itchy and burn. There was no sunburn. I just figured I had developed an allergy to sunscreen. Well it didn't matter what I did or what I used the same invisible rash would come out within 48 hours of sun exposure and last about 3-4 days. I don't go in the sun at all now. So when I started rifing for bart my first subtle reaction, even at 10sec, was a prickly sensation on my skin. Not very bothersome but noticable. I would say that it is a bart herx reaction. Also, since rifing my skin is very ruddy (pink, blotchy) more so than my normal, blotchy skin. I have had my coil for 2.5 months now and must say that I am just a major chicken. After one bad herx from 832 at 30 sec. I backed WAY off my times down to 10-13 secs. I did go to every other day. After becoming bored with that I went to lyme 432 every other day up to 30 secs. I did not have even the slightest reaction to lyme but I do think it might have stimulated bart. I really think my main problem is bart. I am going back to bart and now that the kids will be out of school I plan to really attack it. I know I am not aggressive enough. I am really impressed with all of you that are so willing to be sick/herx. I just don't know how to go to that place for fear of not be able to function and most of all drive. My one herx made me crazy in the head. If it had been any worse I would not have been driving. Kind of like trying drive after 3 glasses of wine. Anyway, those are my thoughts on skin and bart.

[Guest guest]

I have read that Lyme eats out the collagen in our skin as well when it is advanced! Cheers From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of C MellmanSent: Saturday, 2 June 2012 4:29 AMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: Re: herxing from rife I agree. Bart is known for it's skin symptoms. I wonder if it effects collagen production while it is in the skin. I have the skin of someone much older. My mom (whom I personally feel has lyme as well but says she will never do anything about it and doesn't care) has the same skin I do. She was told she had poor collagen production when she was in her 40s and that she would notice it when she got older. So I guess it could be an unfortunate genetic trait. Oh well. I actually tied to research this.

[Guest guest]

Happy to know that I am not the only one with these issues. It seems some on this forum are very willing to do anything and everything to rid themselves of this disease and I admire that. I guess because I am so functional I am not willing to give that up. I had two kids while unknowingly infected. I presume they have lyme but they have not been tested. They are not overtly ill. Any issues they have could easily be passed off as childhood stuff. They do well in school and function "normally" to "others". I personally do not feel they are "normal". My son sleeps when at home but does manage to get As in school and survive boot camp (he is in the civil air patrol). As soon as he gets home he sleeps. My daughter has ADHD. Again, so what, so do millions of

kids. She does not have issues with energy AT ALL. I am waiting to see what works for me before I open their can of worms.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I would not be surprise thank you for the info let s take some collagen then .

Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 6:56 PMSubject: RE: Re: herxing from rife

I have read that Lyme eats out the collagen in our skin as well when it is advanced!

Cheers

From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of C MellmanSent: Saturday, 2 June 2012 4:29 AMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: Re: herxing from rife

I agree. Bart is known for it's skin symptoms. I wonder if it effects collagen production while it is in the skin. I have the skin of someone much older. My mom (whom I personally feel has lyme as well but says she will never do anything about it and doesn't care) has the same skin I do. She was told she had poor collagen production when she was in her 40s and that she would notice it when she got older. So I guess it could be an unfortunate genetic trait. Oh well. I actually tied to research this.

[Guest guest]

Dear C.,

Interesting what you said about the skin issues. I started having crawly

feelings on my forearms about 6 years ago and have now developed severe melasma

on them, which I know has a sun component, but which I feel is also related to

Bart.

I've heard of a lot of people who have the " head " issues when coiling for Bart.,

and I feel very fortunate that mine have been more physical, although

debilitating, until I learned how to deal with them.

I think you are wise not to get to a point where you can't function, especially

with children. There's driving drunk, driving tired, and I guess driving while

herxing, and they're all equally bad!!

How long do your herxes last? Maybe you could coil last thing before bed so you

would " sleep it off " -- that's what I do. I don't want to be awake and feel the

pain, which for me is mostly in the first couple of hours after I coil.

Tara

>

> Interesting this whole skin thing.   10 years ago I started having problems

with sun exposure.  If I was in the sun for awhile (1 hour or more), even with

sunscreen I would develop, what I came to call it, an invisible rash.  There was

nothing on my skin but it would get extremely itchy and burn.  There was no

sunburn.  I just figured I had developed an allergy to sunscreen.  Well it

didn't matter what I did or what I used the same invisible rash would come out

within 48 hours of sun exposure and last about 3-4 days.  I don't go in the sun

at all now.   So when I started rifing for bart my first subtle reaction, even

at 10sec, was a prickly sensation on my skin.  Not very bothersome but

noticable.  I would say that it is a bart herx reaction.  Also, since rifing my

skin is very ruddy (pink, blotchy) more so than my normal, blotchy skin. 

>  

> I have had my coil for 2.5 months now and must say that I am just a major

chicken.  After one bad herx from 832 at 30 sec.  I backed WAY off my times down

to 10-13 secs.  I did go to every other day.  After becoming bored with that I

went to lyme 432 every other day up to 30 secs.  I did not have even the

slightest reaction to lyme but  I do think it might have stimulated bart. I

really think my main problem is bart.   I am going back to bart and now that the

kids will be out of school I plan to really attack it.  I know I am not

aggressive enough.  I am really impressed with all of you that are so willing to

be sick/herx.  I just don't know how to go to that place for fear of not be able

to function and most of all drive.  My one herx made me crazy in the head.  If

it had been any worse I would not have been driving.  Kind of like trying drive

after 3 glasses of wine. 

>  

> Anyway, those are my thoughts on skin and bart.  

>

[Guest guest]

I do nto know bu thwne I rad something I beleive it and try becauase why people would say fasle thing ? I rad this too however I did it but only th ecoil works for the brain so

i tok a coil for my paralysis

Kindly marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:14 PMSubject: herxing from rife

hi alli'm new and will be getting an EMEM5 soon. anyone know if there's any truth to the below quoted testimony i saw recently? thanks, Arlene "I can't remember when but at some point I was reading alot about the need to increase the time on each frequency to 10 minutes and this elimanated Herxes. I had another friend who was using the same machine and he quickly went to 20 - 30 minutes per frequency doing 4 frequencies over 2 days. I thought he was going to kill himself but he improved with leaps and bounds. I finally tried going up to 10 min. per frequency and after rifing felt great, no more Herxs just a big jump in energy. I went up to 20 min. per frequency and tried to limit my time to 1 hour total in a day as that made me feel the best. I fired my LLMD in 2000 which pleased him. I gradually needed rife less and went to every 6 weeks and every 2 months and now every 6 months just in case."