Sleep

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Maybe it works with older people that are generally healthy. But since I

have had Lyme and therefore terrible muscle twitches, I take 250mg magnesium

a day, and it isn't helping my insomnia at all. But then I take a lot of

other medications that could be interfering, not to mention the pain that

keeps me awake, or awakens me when I am asleep. But good info. I did the

real age test a few months ago, I'm 39, the test came back 56!!! Yikes! I'll

have to take it again when I'm well.

Vicki

[Lyme-aid] sleep

>From: ConnieK <conniek@...>

>

>This came in my email..........(from realage) worth a try for those that

>haven't experimented with Magnesium.

>October 26, 1999 - Sleep Problems?

>

>If you have problems sleeping, it could be that you're not

>getting enough magnesium in your diet.

>

>Low magnesium levels are quite common and often contribute to

>sleep disorders. In fact, many common prescription medications

>prevent magnesium absorption-a common problem for older

>Americans.

>

>For immediate relief, consider taking 100 mg to 250 mg of

>magnesium in the evening, twenty minutes before bedtime. On a

>more long-term basis, make sure that you take a multivitamin

>that contains between 400 mg and 600 mg of magnesium. Or, eat

>plenty of foods that are rich in magnesium such as pinto beans,

>navy beans, almonds, pumpkin seeds, wheat germ, and green leafy

>vegetables such as spinach and chard.

>

>

>RealAge Benefit: Getting 6 to 8 hours of sleep a night can make

>your RealAge as much as 3 years younger.

>

>

>What's your RealAge?

>

>http://www.RealAge.com

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/26/99 9:32:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

conniek@... writes:

<< From: ConnieK <conniek@...>

This came in my email..........(from realage) worth a try for those that

haven't experimented with Magnesium.

October 26, 1999 - Sleep Problems?

If you have problems sleeping, it could be that you're not

getting enough magnesium in your diet. >>

your message seems to make extreme sense...esp. since Drs. do warn Lyme

patients to take magnesium as a supplement...this post of yours seems to tie

in an added benifit/reason to take the Drs. advice seriously...isn't it

amazing some of the good info delivered for free right to our mailboxes??

A while back I went to e-diets.com and did a calorie count thing they had on

the site...let them send me their newsletter...and I continue to get it

some really well-written...informative articles gathered from different

sources....and all at the click of a mouse key....Bernadette

[Guest guest]

Okay. What's this real age test? I'd like to take it.

(Michigan)

[Guest guest]

Vicki:

I just took the longer test. (How can they figure out my chronological age if

they don't ask for my birthdate?) I'm not sure where to look for the RealAge

they came up with. There's a chart happening at the top of the screen. But

it's telling me that my RealAge is 5 years younger than I actually am. Am I

doing something wrong?

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your nice compliment. Here is a link to do the real age test. You

have to register before taking it, but it is free. Oprah had the doctor that

came up with on her show once. Basically you answer a bunch of questions and

it tells you your real age, versus you chronological age, based on your

lifestyle, diet, etc. Good luck, after you take it you may wish you didn't,

take the long test not the quick one, its much more thorough, takes about

five minutes at least. Good luck

Vicki

http://realage.com/index.asp?memberId=09730|9277553

Re: [ ] sleep

>From: lisa86@...

>

>Okay. What's this real age test? I'd like to take it.

>

> (Michigan)

>

[Guest guest]

,

I just took the long one too (sorry, much more time to take then I

remembered). I did the entire test and couldn't get it to calculate. So then

I took the quick check and it started by asking my age and birth date, it

said I was 40.05 which amazed me, since I'm very close to that anyway and I

smoke. So that is why I think the longer one is better, last time I did both

(last year) the difference between the two tests was about 5-6 years. Go

back and try it again, I'm going to try later and there is a comment

section, if it doesn't work again, I'll write them and see what I'm doing

wrong. If yours said five years younger, maybe you did it right and are

doing something good, good for you, hope its true. My problem is my diet has

changed so much since having Lyme, because carbs make me so sick, and if you

don't eat a lot of fruits and veggies, they get you for quite a few years

off your life. I also chose, poor health, which subtracts a lot, but before

I was sick I would have said excellent health. So I don't think its a good

idea to do this test while sick. But it is sorta fun and does give you good

advice on how to be healthier. Have a good day, gotta try to go get nap

soon.

Vicki

Re: [Lyme-aid] sleep

>From: lisa86@...

>

>Vicki:

>

>I just took the longer test. (How can they figure out my chronological age

if

>they don't ask for my birthdate?) I'm not sure where to look for the

RealAge

>they came up with. There's a chart happening at the top of the screen. But

>it's telling me that my RealAge is 5 years younger than I actually am. Am I

>doing something wrong?

>

[Guest guest]

So true B.......I continue to get the Realage info.......and find the

little bits of info....

helpful........Con nj

[Guest guest]

I spend the first three months sleeping in my reclinder, day and night.

Then gradually I could do more, even after a year and no more RA pain

I'm still not as energenic as I use to be, I hope by spring I'll have my

energy back. Still all things considered I think I'm doing really well

sometimes I wish I had a RD so I could really get my joints evaluated,

but I've always ended up deciding it was too much trouble finding one

interested in AP.

Patten wrote:

>

> From: " Patten " <leslie@...>

>

> >>However, it is true that all I

> want to do is sleep. How long did this phenomenon last for you? Any

> advice?

>

> , after the first dose of minocin on a friday I slept alot of sunday.

> The first three months I was really tired. I've been on minocin since Sept.

> and if I try to take more than about 3x's week MWF than I get really dragged

> out again. Sometimes the days I'm on minocin I'm tired. I think the first

> 3 months are bad, and then if you can get through the next three months,

> after that it's better they tell me.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Petra,

I take 10mg of Ambien for sleeping problems. Sometimes I dream that I'm in

pain and will wake up in great pain. If this is the case I take a pain pill

(either Vicodin or Ultram), it seems to help.

Amy

[Guest guest]

I usually sleep on my left side with both knees bent with a pillow

between my knees. When reading or watching TV in bed, I am on my back

with a pillow under my knees. Occasionally I roll over on my stomach

for a while but I usually wake from back or hip

pain.................

[Guest guest]

I sleep on my right side with the right leg straight and left leg bent, or bend both legs. I toss and turn if I can't get comfortable then end up in the same position all over again. Can't stand to sleep on my back. Like to sleep on my stomach but it makes my back hurt. I wake alot of days feeling like someone beat the crap out of me and beg hubby to rub my back to loosen me up. I've had times when he had to move my feet back and forth to loosen them up before I could get out of bed because it hurt more for me to lay there and do it myself. He thinks that is all in my head and I just wanted a massage but it works. Don't know what I would do without him!

[Guest guest]

Hi ...I'm in Michigan and we are cool and WET. Raining again today...yes,

clack, clack, here comes Donna. My right ankle is still giving me fits...It just

does not work or want to bend right. I think it has set up to concrete.

You must have a small dog...if she sleeps on your pillow. My dog weighs about 55

lbs and the closest she gets to our bed is down on the floor. By the way, she

snores too...if the PA doesn't keep me awake, my hubby and Tippey keep me awake

snoring. HA. You know some nights it's like I just can't get it all comfortable

at the same time until about 30 min before I have to get...and then I could

sleep the sleep of the dead. But can't, gotta get up.

Have a good nap this afternoon...I'm headed that way myself.

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 19/04/01 08:38:49 GMT Daylight Time, kenlav@... writes:

My rheumy prescribed Elavil to help me sleep. It is an antidepressant in larger doses, but in small doses it helps you deal with pain so that you can get deep sleep.

Maybe it would help you. I have had no side effects from it.

Ken,

Thanks for that, may give it a try.

Mike (from the UK)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/19/2001 3:38:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

kenlav@... writes:

<< I had to have an MRI done at that time. You can't imagine how difficult

that was trying to lie still and knowing how hard it would be to get up. On

top of that, I am also claustrophobic. Boy, I don't want to go through >>

Just a suggestion - if you ever have MRI again, ask if open MRI could be used

- no claustrophia with the open. I know I could NEVER stand being in a

closed MRI - they would have to take me away to the looney bin!

--------------

Moderator personal 2 cents: If it has to be a closed machine go when you are

extremely tired. I went after graveyard shift and practically fell asleep. Same

thing when i went into have some pesky moles removed...was very tired and Doc

was amazed that I wasn't all tense. Hah! PatB

[Guest guest]

I too have consistently had sleep problems with my Lyme, especially since my

reinfection 4 years ago. Recently I have been trying some protocls for

fibro/cfs since the Lyme ones don't seem to help much lately. I will post

more later, but one thing that definitely is helping is Dr. Chaney's

protocol for sleep aids....this consists of .5 to 1 mg of klonopin plus a

VERY small amount of doxepin. ( I am up to about .25cc of 10mg/ml elixir) I

have gotten the best sleep in years using this combination. Here is the link

to the article if anyone is interested in reading more, and I copied the

text of it below. It is from CFIDS and FIBRO Group of Dallas Fort Worth

http://virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids/medical/klonopin.html

KLONOPIN: PROTECTING THE BRAIN

Written by Carol Sieverling, our group's facilitator, this information is

based on tapes of her October 2000 visit to Dr. Cheney. He gave permission

to share this information, but has not reviewed or edited it.

Many CFIDS specialists prescribe the drug Klonopin. In the October 1999

issue of The Fibromyalgia Network, nine CFS/FM specialists summarized their

most effective treatments, and six included Klonopin. Interestingly, the

three who did not are primarily FM specialists. (FM Network: 1-800-853-2929

or http://fmnetnews.com)

Dr. Cheney prescribes Klonopin to address a condition associated with CFIDS

called " excitatory neurotoxicity " . To explain this condition to patients, he

draws a line with " seizure " on the far left and " coma " on the far right. A

big dot in the middle represents where healthy people are when awake. A dot

somewhat to the right of the middle indicates where healthy people are when

asleep Ò slightly shifted toward coma. He highlights in red the left portion

of the line, from seizure to the middle, and labels it " Neurotoxic State "

(damaging to the brain). He highlights in blue the right portion of the

line, from coma to the middle, and labels it " Healing State " .

In CFIDS, an ongoing injury to the brain shifts patients toward seizure. A

dot to the left of the middle, marked " injury " , represents the position of

CFIDS patients. This puts us in the red " Neurotoxic " zone. When we shift

toward seizure, we often experience " sensory overload " . ItÌs as if our

brainÌs " radar " is too sensitive. Our neurons (nerve cells) are sensing

stimuli and firing when they should not. This causes amplification of

sensory input. Light, noise, motion and pain are all magnified. At the

beginning of their illness many patients report feeling exhausted, yet also

strangely " wired " . The " wired " feeling is the slight shift towards seizure

that occurs as a result of the excitatory neurotoxicity.

Cheney frequently uses the term " threshold potential " when discussing

excitatory neurotoxicity. (Think of the threshold - bottom - of a doorway.

The lower it is, the more accessible it is. When it is at floor level,

everything can enter. When it is raised, access is restricted to taller

people. If it is too high, no one can enter.) Threshold potential refers to

how much stimulus it takes to make neurons fire. If the threshold potential

is too low, even slight stimulation is " allowed to enter " and is detected by

the neurons. This causes the neurons to fire, resulting in sensory overload.

If the threshold is dropped to nothing, all stimuli get through and the

neurons fire continuously, resulting in a seizure. If the threshold is

raised, only stronger stimuli can make neurons fire. A healthy personÌs

threshold potential naturally raises at bedtime, promoting sleep. If the

threshold potential is too high, you feel drugged or drowsy. If the

threshold potential is raised extremely high, coma results.

Two receptors in the brain, NMDA and GABA, determine the threshold

potential. During the waking hours of a healthy person, NMDA and GABA should

be equally active. This balances the person in the middle of the

seizure/coma continuum. NMDA stimulates and GABA inhibits. If NMDA

increases, one moves toward seizure. If GABA increases, one moves toward

coma.

In CFIDS, NMDA is more activated than GABA, lowering the threshold

potential. This causes neurons to fire with very little stimulation,

resulting in sensory overload. This condition of excitatory neurotoxicity is

dangerous. Dr. Cheney emphasizes that in an attempt to protect itself, the

body will eventually kill neurons that fire excessively. He states that

brain cell loss can result if this condition isnÌt addressed.

How can the brain be protected against excitatory neurotoxicity? Klonopin.

This long acting benzodiazepine has been Cheney's most effective drug for

CFIDS over the years. He believes that Klonopin and the supplement magnesium

may be two of the most important treatments for CFIDS patients because of

their neuroprotective qualities. He recommends 2 or more 0.5 mg tablets of

Klonopin at night. Paradoxically, very small doses (usually a quarter to a

half a tablet) in the morning and mid-afternoon improve cognitive function

and energy. If the daytime dose is low enough, you'll experience greater

clarity and think better. If the daytime dose is too high, you'll become

drowsy. Adjust your dose for maximum benefit, taking as much as possible

without drowsiness. Adjust the morning dose first, then take the same amount

midafternoon if needed, then take three to four times the morning dose at

bedtime. Cheney recommends doubling the dose during severe relapses.

Dr. Cheney most frequently prescribes the combination of Klonopin and

Doxepin, along with the supplement " Magnesium Glycinate Forte " . (Made by

Labs, it includes taurine, and is available from needs.com.)

Magnesium Glycinate alone is a good choice for the more budget minded. (It's

available from http://needs.com as " Magnesium Complex " made by Klaire.

Immunesupport.com sells it as " Magnesium Plus " .) A common dosage of

magnesium is 200 mgs at bedtime. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea,

though glycinate is usually the best tolerated form.

Cheney prescribes Doxepin in the form of a commercial elixir (10mg/ml). At

low doses this tricyclic anti-depressant acts as a very potent antihistamine

and immune modulator. Doxepin acts synergistically with Klonopin to assist

sleep, and may improve pain. Patients tend to be very sensitive to Doxepin,

which can cause morning fog and fatigue if the dose is too high (5 to 10 mg

or higher). He recommends starting at two drops a night and gradually

increasing the dose until " morning fog " becomes a problem. Most patients

canÌt tolerate more than half a cc.

On a handout entitled " Neuroprotection via Threshold Potentials " , Cheney

lists six substances that can protect the brain. Under the category " NMDA

Blockers " Cheney lists:

1. parenteral magnesium and taurine (intramuscular injections of magnesium

and taurine, usually given with procaine)

2. histamine blockers (Doxepin Elixir)

Under the category " GABA Agonists " (increases GABA) Cheney lists:

3. Klonopin

4. Neurontin

5. Kava Kava

6. Valerian Root

Klonopin is taken " day and night " ; Neurontin " night, or day & night " ; kava

kava daytime only; and valerian nighttime only. The first four are by

prescription, the last two are herbs. In my limited experience, only certain

patients are put on magnesium/ taurine injections, and then only for a

limited period before switching to oral supplements.

Many myths abound concerning Klonopin. When I asked Dr. Cheney about these

myths, he shared the following information.

MYTH NUMBER ONE: THE GENERIC IS JUST AS GOOD. When the generic Clonazepam

came on the market, many patients switched to it because it was less

expensive than Klonopin. Cheney then began hearing that most patients had to

take more Clonazepam to get the same effect. Generics aren't exactly

identical to the original products, and with most drugs the slight

variations don't matter. However, most CFIDS patients can tell the

difference between Klonopin and its generic form, Clonazepam. Most find

Klonopin to be more effective.

MYTH NUMBER TWO: KLONOPIN IS ADDICTIVE. Dr. Cheney was adamant that Klonopin

is not addictive. In treating thousands of patients, Cheney has never seen a

patient become addicted to Klonopin. He reviewed the definition of

addiction, stating that it involves: (1) psychosocial disruption, (2)

accelerated use, (3) inappropriate use, and (4) drug seeking behavior.

Cheney said a case might be made that Klonopin is habituating. It's true

that it can not be stopped suddenly. You must taper off of it gradually.

However, Cheney was cautious about even calling it habituating. The process

of tapering off a drug is not the same thing as withdrawal, a term that

implies addiction.

Cheney said to keep in mind that Klonopin is given for a physiological

problem, excitatory neurotoxicity. It is prescribed to adjust the threshold

potential: to keep neurons from firing inappropriately and being destroyed.

He stressed that Klonopin should never be given unless you intend to raise

the threshold potential. He stated, " Problems arise when you begin to use

benzodiazapines for reasons other than threshold manipulation. " However,

CFIDS patients have a " threshold potential aberration " and need Klonopin (or

something similar) to avoid brain injury. Cheney has never seen a recovered

patient have difficulty coming off Klonopin. He stated, " When you no longer

need the drug, coming off it is very easy. "

On the other hand, trouble arises when someone who still has an injured

brain tries to come off Klonopin. It is like a thyroid patient stopping

their thyroid medication. Cheney warned, " All hell breaks loose " . However,

it is not because the drug is addicting, and it is not withdrawal. The

condition still exists, and the body lets you know it has a legitimate

physical need for the drug. Cheney stated, " When a CFIDS patient who is

still experiencing the underlying mechanisms of brain injury goes off

Klonopin, there is a burst of excess neural firing and cell death. ThatÌs

the havoc we hear about that is mistakenly called withdrawal. "

MYTH NUMBER THREE: KLONOPIN DISRUPTS STAGE 4 SLEEP. Dr. Cheney said that he

honestly does not understand this concern. He believes Klonopin might

disrupt the sleep of people who take it for conditions other than the

threshold potential aberration found in CFIDS. He also acknowledged that if

you are looking just for drugs to facilitate sleep, Klonopin is certainly

not the first one to come to mind, nor should it be used to induce sleep in

" ordinary " patients. It's not a sleep drug per se. However, a large part of

the sleep disorder of CFIDS is excitatory neurotoxicity and the resulting

shift toward seizure. If you treat this condition with Klonopin, then you

have treated a large part of the sleep disorder in CFIDS. Most importantly,

he said he simply does not see stage 4 sleep disruption in his patients on

Klonopin.

Towards the end of this discussion on Klonopin, Cheney smiled, and remarked,

" But suppose I am wrong about the brain injury and the threshold potential

aberration and the shift toward seizure? What if I'm wrong about your need

for Klonopin? I'm absolutely sure I'm right, but what's the worst case

scenario? Do you know what long term studies on Klonopin have shown? Reduced

incidence of Alzheimer's Disease. AlzheimerÌs Disease is a complicated and

convoluted way of knocking out your neurons, and Klonopin protects your

neurons. Now it's believed that Klonopin didn't actually stop AlzheimerÌs.

It just delayed its onset so long that everyone died of something else

before they ever got it - which is to say you won't get Alzheimer's. You'll

die of something else first. "

The last question Cheney addressed concerned the dose: what happens if the

dose is too high? He said the only down side was that if you took a little

too much (we are not talking overdose here) it would shift you toward coma

on the continuum. It would shut your brain down to some degree, and thus

impact your ability to function. This is inconvenient, but it's not harmful.

In fact, it shifts you into the " healing state " on the continuum. You may

feel like a zombie, but your brain is protected and your neurons are not

getting fried. However, not being able to function isn't an option for most

of us, so we need to find the maximum dose that doesn't make us drowsy.

Dr. Cheney emphasized that Klonopin, Doxepin, and magnesium are very, very

good at protecting the brain from cell death due to excess firing. However,

they can't stop the underlying mechanisms of CFIDS that are injuring the

brain in the first place. (Those mechanisms are another story, and can only

be explained by Dr. Cheney himself, hopefully in the video that will be made

when he speaks here in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area on October 20, 2001.)

Though it can't stop the underlying mechanisms causing the injury, Klonopin

can protect your brain and keep your neurons from being destroyed. Then, as

Cheney put it, " When you come out on the other side of this, you'll have

more of your brain left. "

[Guest guest]

-, It seems to be the exact opposite with me. If I get 8 hours

sleep, I waken with the usual stiffness & pain, but if I sleep in on

a weekend say 9 or 10 hours, I generally still have the morning

stiffness, but the rest of the day is usually better than with less

sleep. Although I must admit that a few times when I get less than 8

hours, i don't notice that I feel any worse. Strange. -- In

@y..., " fileybrian " <fileybrian@h...> wrote:

> Hi, I read so many letters about the lack of sleep I am wondering

if

> I am the only one who dreads sleeping the whole night through. If I

> sleep all night I wake up so stiff I can hardly move. It has now

got

> so bad that I set my alarm to 4 am so I can get up and and go for a

> walk round my bedroom. If I have a glass of milk and my painkillers

I

> usually find I can get back to sleep quite easily. When I wake up

at

> about 7-30am I find the painkillers have got in to my system and I

> don't feel to bad.

> All the best

[Guest guest]

My 5y/0 36 lb wakes several times during the night (autistic child) also my

8y/o 50lb with cerebral palsy wakes during the night. She is having much

difficulty going to sleep, screaming, crying. I feel like some of it is fear

but more than that just manipulation of mom, wanting me right next to her. I

can't do that night after night. Any suggestions of vitamin, mineral or

other supps. and amounts please. Thanks from a weary mom. N.

[Guest guest]

> My 5y/0 36 lb wakes several times during the night (autistic child)

also my

> 8y/o 50lb with cerebral palsy wakes during the night.

I know a child who was autistic and cerebral palsy, who lost both dx

when gluten was removed from his diet. Are you gfcf and/or using

enzymes right now?

Also for sleep issues, consider phenols and yeast

http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/phenol.htm

http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/yeast.htm

You can also consider magnesium, melatonin, or clonidine for sleep

issues.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Are you currently around that area? I have not lived there since I

graduated high school, although my family still lives in the

Winchendon area.

Tom

>

> >

> > wife has told me many times that she has had to wake me up

because I

> > have stopped breathing. I will be making an appointment with my

GP

> > to have that looked at. If anyone has any thought on

this...please

> > feel free to comment so I can have some research before I go in to

> > the doctor.

> >

> > I will be starting college once I get back to Massachusetts and I

> > hope to have my degree in about 2 years. Does anyone know of a

good

> > Rheumy in the northern Worcester county area of Massachusetts

(i.e.

> > Fitchburg, Gardner, Leominster, etc.)?

> >

[Guest guest]

, for about two years now I've been taking Ambien on work nights that I

anticipate not sleeping well. I resisted taking it every night, as I did

not want to become dependent. I started with 10 mg, but that was too much,

as I really only need 5-6 hrs of sleep (and I was sleeping right through my

alarms in the morning). So now I do 5 mg and sometimes I even break those

and they'll be good for a few hours. Its been rare that they are not

effective for me. In the mornings I am not groggy - not great, but not

groggy. Its not a perfectly restful sleep, but its not bad. It is by far

better than going w/o and only getting a couple hours. I'm not aware of any

side effects. I've heard of a similar product that is meant to be taken if

you wake up in the middle of the night and cant get back to sleep - not sure

what its called. My sister takes neurontin and gets good results, but

everybody's different.

Jeff

----Original Message Follows----

From: " gmcnj " <gmcnj@...>

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Sleep

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:28:40 -0000

Hi. I'm new here and hope you all might have some advice. I'm

diagnosed with reactive arthritis and my rheumatologist has me on

penicilin therapy, plaquenil, ultracet, and celebrex.

Question is, I've been given zanaflex (muscle relaxant)on theory that

I'm not getting restorative sleep. That didn't seem to help much, so

I just tried neurontin, and had terrible dreams and disturbed sleep

from it.

I get moderate regular exercise, have a very regular bedtime etc. but

am not waking up refreshed. Does anyone have any good suggestions for

aiding good sleep? I'm fairly sensitive to meds so am looking for

alternatives. Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________

The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

Jeff and , I, too, take the ambien. I am fearful of the dependency and I

also break mine in two and then supplement with a natural sleep aid. No

hangover with this combination. I hope this helps.

rheumatic Sleep

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:28:40 -0000

Hi. I'm new here and hope you all might have some advice. I'm

diagnosed with reactive arthritis and my rheumatologist has me on

penicilin therapy, plaquenil, ultracet, and celebrex.

Question is, I've been given zanaflex (muscle relaxant)on theory that

I'm not getting restorative sleep. That didn't seem to help much, so

I just tried neurontin, and had terrible dreams and disturbed sleep

from it.

I get moderate regular exercise, have a very regular bedtime etc. but

am not waking up refreshed. Does anyone have any good suggestions for

aiding good sleep? I'm fairly sensitive to meds so am looking for

alternatives. Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________

The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

on 3/28/03 1:28 PM, gmcnj, at gmcnj@..., wrote:

> Question is, I've been given zanaflex (muscle relaxant)on theory that

> I'm not getting restorative sleep. That didn't seem to help much, so

> I just tried neurontin, and had terrible dreams and disturbed sleep

> from it.

I take Soma at bed time, it puts me out like a light. I think it wears off

in about 4 hours, but rarely wake in the middle of the night any more, I

certainly used to.

Soma is another muscle relaxant. It works well for me because I do tend to

have muscle twitching and even spasm in the muscles near where I have

inflamed tendons. This comes out at bedtime in particular, I think because

it is the time my body is trying to wind down.

I've heard neurontin is good for this exact thing, but if it causes

disturbed sleep, it obviously is the wrong choice for you. I had a similar

experience with serzone, it was doing exactly the opposite of what it was

supposed to do. I have no negative effects with Soma.

I've never tried Ambien or Sonata, which are for sleep alone. What Soma does

is relax muscle twitches and make me drowsy, so I fall to sleep, then sleep

better. I also have reactive arthritis, and minocycline therapy has helped

me a great deal over 3 1/2 years.

--

Jean

jpro2@...

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Geoff here.

You wrote:

> diagnosed with reactive arthritis and my rheumatologist

> has me on penicilin therapy, plaquenil, ultracet, and celebrex.

>

> Question is, I've been given zanaflex (muscle relaxant)on theory that

> I'm not getting restorative sleep. That didn't seem to help much, so

> I just tried neurontin, and had terrible dreams and disturbed sleep

> from it.

You are on the wrong regimen for both restorative sleep and for this list.

The suggestions from these participants most likely to truly help you assume

you are specifically avoiding every single drug you list. For more

information about the drugs you're taking and their impact on your sleep,

look up each of your drugs on individually at www.rxlist.com. When you've

finished that, read *all* of the information at www.rheumatic.org.

When you're done with all that, start looking very seriously at the

implications of what the regimen you are on will do to you, versus the one

that is discussed (and whose partakers are supported) on this list. Then

make your decision. If you decide to continue what you're doing, this list

will not be the best place for you to find help; it is equivalent to going

to a tire store for lumber.

Whatever you do, don't throw up your arms and say, 'This is too much work!'

It's your health and your life and there is no such thing as too much work

when it comes to preserving these... providing you want them.

Geoff

soli Deo gloria

" He deprives of intelligence the chiefs of the earth's people... "

" ...loosen the bonds of wickedness, undo the bands of the yoke, let the

oppressed go free, satisfy the desire of the afflicted, and your light will

rise in darkness and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and you will be

called the restorer of the streets in which to dwell. "

www.HealingYou.org - Your nonprofit source for remedies and aids in fighting

these diseases, information on weaning from drugs, and nutritional kits for

repairing adrenal damage; 100% volunteer staffed.

(Courtesy of Captain Cook's www.800-800-cruise.com)

J1224

I58612

[Guest guest]

on 3/29/03 9:47 AM, Geoff, at geoff@..., wrote:

>> diagnosed with reactive arthritis and my rheumatologist

>> has me on penicilin therapy, plaquenil, ultracet, and celebrex.

> You are on the wrong regimen for both restorative sleep and for this list.

> The suggestions from these participants most likely to truly help you assume

> you are specifically avoiding every single drug you list.

Geoff, I believe your misread 's post, and your response could be

potentially off-putting for a newcomer. Please note that the first drug she

lists is PENICILLIN.

Penicillin is of course an antibiotic, and is the best antibiotic for some

microorganisms which cause arthritis.

We are more accustomed to seeing one of the tetracyclines used for

rheumatoid arthritis, reactive arthritis is sometime treated with

penicillin.

Yes, this list as a whole does have a bias against plaquenil, but

individuals will vary on that. There is no proscription against using

antiinflammatories or pain medications with the antibiotic protocol.

--

Jean

jpro2@...

[Guest guest]

> Geoff, I believe your misread 's post, and your response

> could be potentially off-putting for a newcomer. Please note

> that the first drug she lists is PENICILLIN.

I will respond privately...

Geoff

soli Deo gloria

www.HealingYou.org - Your nonprofit source for remedies and aids in fighting

these diseases, information on weaning from drugs, and nutritional kits for

repairing adrenal damage; 100% volunteer staffed.

(Courtesy of Captain Cook's www.800-800-cruise.com)

" He deprives of intelligence the chiefs of the earth's people... "

" ...loosen the bonds of wickedness, undo the bands of the yoke, let the

oppressed go free, satisfy the desire of the afflicted, and your light will

rise in darkness and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and you will be

called the restorer of the streets in which to dwell. "

J1224

I58612