Aggression

[Guest guest]

>now he head butts me while hitting, scratching, kicking and biting. We also

have the high pitch scream back.<

This is what I posted about a week ago. Tristan hasn't bit me now in a week.

He has been slamming his head on the floor HARD when he doesn't get his way. He

also bites on himself. He seems to vacilate between aggressive then self

abusive behaviors. My heart goes out to all of you whose children are high

functioning with good language skills, but have the autistic behaviors. My

grandson is considered non verbal though he is starting to use single words, and

has echolalia sometimes. So what I am saying is he is viewed by most people as

very autistic. He is a verbal stimmer too with jabbering or repeating one word

over and over. For those whose children can talk, other people probably don't

believe they are autistic. Just guessing. So it is probably harder to get the

proper assistance. I have a friend in Minnesota whose son is this way. She

finally pulled him out of school and homeschooled him, because they said he

wasn't autistic. Carlson

[Guest guest]

, is there any bipolar in your family history or 's dad. I

mean, I am on two bipolar and a RAD list. sounds like he has a mood

disorder. Therapy is not going to help if this is the case.

Betty

grandma and guardian to

- 11 yo-- Bipolar/ADHD on Depakote, Adderall, Omega 3's

Evan - 8 yo nonverbal autism on 3 mg Risperdal

- 6 - Bipolar/ADHD/RAD/PTSD on Tegretol, Adderall Omega 3's

mother to , their mom - Bipolar/ADHD on Topamax

wife to Bob too many meds to remember

[Guest guest]

,

My son intitially showed aggression towards me when he was 3, an

occasional pinching of his teacher. As he got older the aggression

waned, except when we intially had him on adderall (he was still

aggressive towards me). He started his aggressiveness again, and now

he's much less selective about who he directs it towards. now its

other children, including my younger son-with him he pushes him of

the room if hes doing something bad. He can throw pieces of

furnature on the floor and the teacher tells me everyone at school

is black and blue. They initially thought it was due to transition-a

new school and new pressures. However, he was hitting kids on the

playground. He also loses control when he perceives what you say to

be an insult or the word " no " (the biggest one that sets him off).

I think that meds are necessary if they control behavior that

behavior modification cannot. My friends daughter had little luck

with meds, but, is able to be handled with behavior mod-she attends

a private ABA school. My son is on concerta-lets see how long he

stays calm. If not, Im considering a mood stabilizer.

As for the cutting, I agree 3 years old isnt that delayed. They

probably send home the cutting because they dont want to deal with

it. my son went through a phase where he would cut his hair. I dont

keep any knives near him.

What type of therapist is it? speech?

Thea

> Do your kids show aggression towards only one person or a limited

> few? will do anything anytime to me and the girls. On

> occasion to teachers and friends.Yet rarely to his dad.

>

> He was listed as having fine motor and gross motor delays( slight

if

> at all in my opinion) but they claimed this from his lack of

scissor

> ability! He wasnt even 3 yet, he is now but why on earth would he

> have scissor abilities?( I wouldnt let him touch them) First of

all

> he is mean as a snake. He would try to kill us! LOL...and they

> thought I was joking.... WELL his special ed preschool has sent

him

> home with cutting homework... cutting straight lines etc... He

> couldnt get them to work.. he loves the scissors but refused to do

it

> when asked, and ran away from us slipped and fell landing on the

> scissors cutting his clothes he ran under the table and when I

> reached in to get him (because he started cutting/stabbing hair,

> clothes his fingers and the antique table...) he tried to cut me

with

> them... He tried to get his grandmotehr with them... we had to

> distract him and as he was reaching to cut one of our fingers off

the

> other had to get him ... Why would he do this?frustration maybe

but

> why so out of control? Surely he didnt do it at school... We would

> have recieved a note, lol... Why is he so violent and angry all

the

> time? What have you all done during these tantrums or violent

fits?

> we have tried time out, restraining, spanking, taking away his

> favorite toys,ignoring him... and the list goes on.... nothing

works.

>

> we are going to a therapist weekly and she has told us NOTHING

(and

> we've been seeing ehr weekly since sept 13th) I mean not a single

> thing on what to do.. which is our only concern... She is trying

to

> befriend us and be a sort of advocate and get his schooling

increased

> etc...GREAT, but I am not as worried about his learning right

> now...he is doing so much better with his speech and

comprehension.

> The psychiatrist prescribed risperdal and I have been against

> medicating him, until we try some sort of therapy with him to see

if

> that works first... but we arent getting any from this woman...

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, my mother has claimed that my father was bipolar, but his

family denies this( he passed away when I was 14) I told this to

every doctor I have been to. None of them thought anything of it. My

husbands entire family is off... I wont even go into that. lol but 2

have actually been hospitalized.. for what no one said but they were

there permanently, and one was still recieving shock therapy

intermittently up until she died a couple years ago. that musta been

bad

> , is there any bipolar in your family history or 's

dad. I

> mean, I am on two bipolar and a RAD list. sounds like he

has a mood

> disorder. Therapy is not going to help if this is the case.

>

> Betty

> grandma and guardian to

> - 11 yo-- Bipolar/ADHD on Depakote, Adderall, Omega 3's

> Evan - 8 yo nonverbal autism on 3 mg Risperdal

> - 6 - Bipolar/ADHD/RAD/PTSD on Tegretol, Adderall Omega 3's

> mother to , their mom - Bipolar/ADHD on Topamax

> wife to Bob too many meds to remember

[Guest guest]

The therapist is a behavioral therapist I guess.. She is in with a

psychiatrist.

> > Do your kids show aggression towards only one person or a

limited

> > few? will do anything anytime to me and the girls. On

> > occasion to teachers and friends.Yet rarely to his dad.

> >

> > He was listed as having fine motor and gross motor delays(

slight

> if

> > at all in my opinion) but they claimed this from his lack of

> scissor

> > ability! He wasnt even 3 yet, he is now but why on earth would

he

> > have scissor abilities?( I wouldnt let him touch them) First of

> all

> > he is mean as a snake. He would try to kill us! LOL...and they

> > thought I was joking.... WELL his special ed preschool has sent

> him

> > home with cutting homework... cutting straight lines etc... He

> > couldnt get them to work.. he loves the scissors but refused to

do

> it

> > when asked, and ran away from us slipped and fell landing on the

> > scissors cutting his clothes he ran under the table and when I

> > reached in to get him (because he started cutting/stabbing hair,

> > clothes his fingers and the antique table...) he tried to cut me

> with

> > them... He tried to get his grandmotehr with them... we had to

> > distract him and as he was reaching to cut one of our fingers off

> the

> > other had to get him ... Why would he do this?frustration maybe

> but

> > why so out of control? Surely he didnt do it at school... We

would

> > have recieved a note, lol... Why is he so violent and angry all

> the

> > time? What have you all done during these tantrums or violent

> fits?

> > we have tried time out, restraining, spanking, taking away his

> > favorite toys,ignoring him... and the list goes on.... nothing

> works.

> >

> > we are going to a therapist weekly and she has told us NOTHING

> (and

> > we've been seeing ehr weekly since sept 13th) I mean not a single

> > thing on what to do.. which is our only concern... She is trying

> to

> > befriend us and be a sort of advocate and get his schooling

> increased

> > etc...GREAT, but I am not as worried about his learning right

> > now...he is doing so much better with his speech and

> comprehension.

> > The psychiatrist prescribed risperdal and I have been against

> > medicating him, until we try some sort of therapy with him to see

> if

> > that works first... but we arent getting any from this woman...

> >

[Guest guest]

Is he having a growth spurt? If so his meds may need a dosage change.

[Guest guest]

Is he having a growth spurt? If so his meds may need a dosage change.

[Guest guest]

Sometimes aggression is common post seizure and sometimes they can

hearld a seizure or be part of a seizure.

His meds may need to be re-evaluated

Jeneane

Houston

[Guest guest]

Sometimes aggression is common post seizure and sometimes they can

hearld a seizure or be part of a seizure.

His meds may need to be re-evaluated

Jeneane

Houston

[Guest guest]

Q:

What else is he eating?

Jacq

In a message dated 9/14/2004 10:39:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

hickeyadk@... writes:

I began using the enzymes in Feb with our 7yo son giving zyme and afp

pept. with breakfast and supper. I did this very gradual. I began

allowing him to have a little debbie nutty bar occasionally without

noticeable changes. When summer began he had one every day. He

became aggressive in June with his TSS but I blamed it on so many

other changes in his life. Well it continued and now school is having

problems. He was never aggressive...ever. So I sadly took away the

nutty bar last Fri but cont'd the enzymes. He is still having

aggressive bursts. How dumb of me to allow him such a food that I now

have no replacement for. The enzymes really help keep him from

bloating and from gas but I fear that the aggression is from the

nutty bar. Any words of advice? Thanks

[Guest guest]

,

Don't be really hard on yourself. With all the stress involved in

raising a child with any special needs, at times things as simple as

a little debbie can be an oasis. Every day was probably building up,

though. My guess would be it was any additives in the nutty bar. Keep

with the enzymes and try epsom salts baths to help clear his system

if you aren't doing that already.

www.enzymestuff.com/epsomsalts.htm

If I run into any non-additive substitutes, I will let you know.

Anyone know of a nutty-bar or cream wafer type food? Would homemade

peanut butter on crackers work? it is creamy and crunchy too.

Please post if he hasn't calmed down in a couple days. Aggression is

common with additives though. If he does calm down, maybe you could

give the nutty bars once in a while, but not every day or as often.

.

P.S. I always liked those Little Debbie Nutty Bars too.

[Guest guest]

He is still on the gluten/casein free diet he has used since he was

3. The nuuty bar was the only food I ever gave him that wasn't GF/CF.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your uplifting response. He had a great day today,

no aggression. He didn't even ask for the nutty bar tonight. I would

like to give it to him on special occasions. I think since we are

keeping up the enzymes while maintaining the GFCF diet for now, that

he will tolerate the occ. treat much better. ---

In , " jornmatt " <kjorn@t...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Don't be really hard on yourself. With all the stress involved in

> raising a child with any special needs, at times things as simple

as

> a little debbie can be an oasis. Every day was probably building

up,

> though. My guess would be it was any additives in the nutty bar.

Keep

> with the enzymes and try epsom salts baths to help clear his system

> if you aren't doing that already.

>

> www.enzymestuff.com/epsomsalts.htm

>

> If I run into any non-additive substitutes, I will let you know.

> Anyone know of a nutty-bar or cream wafer type food? Would homemade

> peanut butter on crackers work? it is creamy and crunchy too.

>

> Please post if he hasn't calmed down in a couple days. Aggression

is

> common with additives though. If he does calm down, maybe you could

> give the nutty bars once in a while, but not every day or as often.

>

> .

>

>

> P.S. I always liked those Little Debbie Nutty Bars too.

[Guest guest]

My 5 year old is on Abilify and it seems to be working pretty well...it hasn't completely eliminated the negative behavior, but it is manageable now to the point that he is not trying to hurt others or himself(no more meltdowns) Not a miracle drug, but something to consider...another method(more natural) is treating w/ sulfer...I'll see what info I can find on its use for aggression for you...good luck:)

(5-Autism,Pica)

Adam

(3-ADHD)__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Definately, you are not alone. I have a 6' 190 lb. nonverbal son with

autism. He is usually fine but every now and then he becomes very

frustrated, angry and aggressive. He has grabbed my arms and dug his nails

in so hard that he broke my skin in several places. Often this is due to the

inability to communicate wants and needs or even feeling ill or in pain. At

times I am amazed that my son has, with all his autism related

sensitivities, been able to do as well as he does. I cannot imagine being in

his shoes. Does your daughter give warning signs before she grabs you?

Knowing some of her actions beforehand will give you a chance to " take

cover. " Try to leave the room making it look like you have something to do

so she does not get the idea that you are afraid of her. My son will often

start wringing his hands before he becomes physically aggresive. I find a

reason to vacate the immediate area or redirect him. I know, not always

easy! Hang in there and remember to take good care of yourself too. Do you

get any respite?

aggression

> I have a 9 yr old daughter, who is moderatly autistic. SHe has

> minimal verbal skills and can be aggressive. Well, her aggressions

> arent too bad but once in a while she just will get soo mad and come

> after me. She grabs pinches and kicks. When she gets like this I

> just try to hold her back so she doesnt hurt me too badly, but today

> she was so strong and I was kinda scared of her. Let me just say this

> rarely happens where she gets this mad especially at me but has anyone

> ever been a little scared of their own child? thanks for listening.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I have,

Its a sad anf frightening moment. My son is 9 and dx with aspergers,

anxiety, aggression, and dysgraphia, and obsessive thoughts. When he

gets angry..really angry he is scary. It doesnt happen often but if he

is really worked up and not redirected I am afraid of him. He is 4ft 10

and 120 lbs. I am afraid of our future sometimes, I am afraid he is

going to end up someplace bad because of his rage.

He works with a psych, soc worker, med, positive reinforcements but

sometimes he is out of control and yes its very scary, and at these

times he is scared himself.

Allie

[Guest guest]

I teach for the public school system. I have a class with eight students, four of which are autistic. Most of my autistic students become very aggressive when they cannot communicate adequately. A couple of things that I try when they are starting to become worked up is writing. I communicate via writing instead of talking. This works great for those who can read. For those who can't, I usually try to make sure I have a hold on their arms especially when they are trying to kick and punch. The pressure from you on them is sometimes soothing, and this will also prevent you from getting kicked or punched. Hopefully this can be of some assistance!Donna <DOCHS@...> wrote: Definately, you are not alone. I have a 6' 190 lb. nonverbal son withautism. He is usually fine but every now

and then he becomes veryfrustrated, angry and aggressive. He has grabbed my arms and dug his nailsin so hard that he broke my skin in several places. Often this is due to theinability to communicate wants and needs or even feeling ill or in pain. Attimes I am amazed that my son has, with all his autism relatedsensitivities, been able to do as well as he does. I cannot imagine being inhis shoes. Does your daughter give warning signs before she grabs you?Knowing some of her actions beforehand will give you a chance to "takecover." Try to leave the room making it look like you have something to doso she does not get the idea that you are afraid of her. My son will oftenstart wringing his hands before he becomes physically aggresive. I find areason to vacate the immediate area or redirect him. I know, not alwayseasy! Hang in there and remember to take good care of yourself too. Do youget any respite? aggression> I have a 9 yr old daughter, who is moderatly autistic. SHe has> minimal verbal skills and can be aggressive. Well, her aggressions> arent too bad but once in a while she just will get soo mad and come> after me. She grabs pinches and kicks. When she gets like this I> just try to hold her back so she doesnt hurt me too badly, but today> she was so strong and I was kinda scared of her. Let me just say this> rarely happens where she gets this mad especially at me but has anyone> ever been a little scared of their own child? thanks for listening.>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

A little scared? Are you kidding? Karac is 13 and there have been times when I have worn a thick heavy coat in the hot summer time along with mittens that look like boxing gloves until he got over the rage. Since he has been on .25 Xanax I haven't had to do that but a few times. I try not to show my fear because it makes Karac worse. If I can stay calm he will usually be over it in five or so minutes. Pat K

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do pretty much the same. Before Karac has an aggressive attack he starts perseverating on a word or phrase. Kind of like a stuck phonograph reccord. I walk quickly and quietly to my closet and put on my thick winter coat to protect my arms just in case. Pat K

[Guest guest]

Alie, I'm glad you mentioned not touching; Karac is the same way, and I have been trying to teach my husband to avoid touching Karac when he is upset; that only escalates the problem. Pat K

[Guest guest]

My son has asbergers and he is very verbal. But, when he is frustrated

he seems to lose the ability to communicate with words. He growls,

threatens, postures, makes angry noises and cries. Usually, if you can

" fi× " whats wrong he calms very quickly. But, if you cant he goes into

a " time out' room..sometimes willingly, somtimes unwillingly to calm

down. If he is touched he anger escalates into agression quickly and

forcefully. They have a timer outside the time out room and its set for

10 mins and reset as often as needed. This helps him focus on getting

out and focus on something else.

ALlie

[Guest guest]

Pat

It was really enlightening for me. I touched his arm very lightly and he

scratched me very deeply and just lost it. After he calmed down I said

why did u scratch me so hard I just touched your arm (by accident too)

He said " mom it felt like you punched it and a pain shot through my arm

and body when you touched me. So wow when he's angry his nervous system

is wayyyy overloaded. This helped me understand why he overreacts so

much.

Allie

[Guest guest]

Allie, thanks for the insight. That is so good that your son can tell you. Pat K

[Guest guest]

Ally,

Sounds like your son has tactile defensiveness, where he is

oversensitive to light touch. The intense reaction sets of a " fight

or flight " response. This is very treatable. You should see an

Occupational Therapist who specializes in sensory integration. They

would design a therapy plan (often consisting of deep pressure

brushing followed by joint compressions) to reduce this sensitivity.

Bill

>

> Pat

> It was really enlightening for me. I touched his arm very lightly

and he

> scratched me very deeply and just lost it. After he calmed down I

said

> why did u scratch me so hard I just touched your arm (by accident

too)

> He said " mom it felt like you punched it and a pain shot through my

arm

> and body when you touched me. So wow when he's angry his nervous

system

> is wayyyy overloaded. This helped me understand why he overreacts so

> much.

>

> Allie

>

[Guest guest]

Bill,

Thanks for your email. We saw one independantly this summer (school says

he doesnt qualify) He loves the joint compression activities but hates

the brushing. Yes he is very tactile defensive. I see a big improvement

in it sinced we do the activites at home. Mostly I see him reactive when

he is angry. He can tolerate things he couldnt tolerate now. In time, I

hope he will be less defensive.

ALlie