Aggression

[Guest guest]

The book is called The Incredible 5- Point Scale and is written by Kari Dunn Buron & Mitzi Curtis. It is published by the Autism Asperger Publishing Co and you might find out more info at their web site www.asperger.net.

Basically is helps autties understand social interactions and control their emotional responses. I like it because it is so easy to adapt for a variety of kids and is a very basic concept. Their emotions are "rated" starting at 1 which represents happy/ calm thro 5 which is a meltdown.. Hope this helps

May you have warm words on a cold evening,a full moon on a dark night,and a smooth road all the way to your door.

aggression

What is meant by 5 point system? Can you elaborate a littlemore?savi

[Guest guest]

The book is called The Incredible 5- Point Scale and is written by Kari Dunn Buron & Mitzi Curtis. It is published by the Autism Asperger Publishing Co and you might find out more info at their web site www.asperger.net.

Basically is helps autties understand social interactions and control their emotional responses. I like it because it is so easy to adapt for a variety of kids and is a very basic concept. Their emotions are "rated" starting at 1 which represents happy/ calm thro 5 which is a meltdown.. Hope this helps

May you have warm words on a cold evening,a full moon on a dark night,and a smooth road all the way to your door.

aggression

What is meant by 5 point system? Can you elaborate a littlemore?savi

[Guest guest]

The book is called The Incredible 5- Point Scale and is written by Kari Dunn Buron & Mitzi Curtis. It is published by the Autism Asperger Publishing Co and you might find out more info at their web site www.asperger.net.

Basically is helps autties understand social interactions and control their emotional responses. I like it because it is so easy to adapt for a variety of kids and is a very basic concept. Their emotions are "rated" starting at 1 which represents happy/ calm thro 5 which is a meltdown.. Hope this helps

May you have warm words on a cold evening,a full moon on a dark night,and a smooth road all the way to your door.

aggression

What is meant by 5 point system? Can you elaborate a littlemore?savi

[Guest guest]

Random advice ...

The grammatical command form " Don't hit " seems to bring on resistence

from my son rather than cooperation. He often seems more receptive when

the " rule " is universal and the sentence structure is a non-command

form. So I might say too him " We don't hit people. "

I've also told him " People do not like to be hit. It feels terrible. So

we use our voices instead of hitting. "

In calmer moments, I've talked to him about " How did it feel when

So-and-so hit you last week (or whenever he was last hit)? " and then

after he answers and we talk about that experience briefly, then I

follow up by asking " Do you think felt the same way when you hit

him today? " And we talk briefly about how might have felt.

I might also ask him " If wants a truck you are playing with, and

you aren't done playing with it yet, how do you want to act. " And

then reverse it - " How do you think would want you to act? "

Also, " What could do if you don't want to share the toy yet? " (or

if you do something doesn't like) and " What could you do if

doesn't want to share? " (or if does something you don't like).

I've also explained that a grown up can help resolve problems when his

voice isn't being listened to. But if he hits people, he will have more

problems because then adults will be mad at tim and he will get in

trouble.

Colin

>

> Does anyone have any tips on curbing aggression in a four year old

> child with possible AS? My son has definate problems with hitting and

> pushing other children. He does this whenever they do something he

> doesn't want them to - meaning if someone tries to play with a toy he

> doesn't want them to have, he hits them. If someone doesn't follow his

> directions, he hits them. If he can't have something he wants, he'll

> hit. You get the picture. He does this at the babysitters, and

> especially at home with his little brother. Any suggestions on how to

> help him manage his anger, and curb the impulse to hit. We give him a

> time out each time he hits, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the

> frequency of his hitting at all... I'd love to hear any advice or

> suggestions on this, as its a real problem for us right now.

> Thanks,

>

> Jen

>

[Guest guest]

I'm in the same boat as you are with our 5 year old with possible

AS. We are going to a doctor who specializes in neurodevelopmental

disabilities and behavioral developmental pediatrics later this

month. We are excited to see what he has to say. We are treating

our son for ADHD too which has, to some extent, helped with some of

his behavior including the aggressivness but it hasn't been a cure-

all. I have no answers just that you're not alone.

By the way, we have all but given up on time outs. At school they

use something similar to it but at home, it just hadn't been

working. We've really taken the praise approach. We know he needs

to learn responsibility for his actions and consequences, but

punishment just hasn't been very productive. We constantly praise

when he doesn't hit at a moment we can see he really wants to. We

try to explain that it hurts the other person and they won't want to

play with him again if he keeps hitting them, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe you could work on things he could do instead of hitting. It

didn't work for us but instead of hitting could he rip paper, squeeze

a squishy ball, etc? Our son is just too impulsive and redirection

hasn't worked but we'll try again.

Hang in there! You will get some great ideas here. Stay with

something for awhile and if it doesn't work, try it again in a few

months.

Noel

>

> Does anyone have any tips on curbing aggression in a four year old

> child with possible AS? My son has definate problems with hitting

and

> pushing other children. He does this whenever they do something he

> doesn't want them to - meaning if someone tries to play with a toy

he

> doesn't want them to have, he hits them. If someone doesn't follow

his

> directions, he hits them. If he can't have something he wants,

he'll

> hit. You get the picture. He does this at the babysitters, and

> especially at home with his little brother. Any suggestions on how

to

> help him manage his anger, and curb the impulse to hit. We give

him a

> time out each time he hits, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the

> frequency of his hitting at all... I'd love to hear any advice or

> suggestions on this, as its a real problem for us right now.

> Thanks,

>

> Jen

>

[Guest guest]

can I ask how you do the timeouts?

( ) Re: Aggression

I'm in the same boat as you are with our 5 year old with possible AS. We are going to a doctor who specializes in neurodevelopmental disabilities and behavioral developmental pediatrics later this month. We are excited to see what he has to say. We are treating our son for ADHD too which has, to some extent, helped with some of his behavior including the aggressivness but it hasn't been a cure-all. I have no answers just that you're not alone. By the way, we have all but given up on time outs. At school they use something similar to it but at home, it just hadn't been working. We've really taken the praise approach. We know he needs to learn responsibility for his actions and consequences, but punishment just hasn't been very productive. We constantly praise when he doesn't hit at a moment we can see he really wants to. We try to explain that it hurts the other person and they won't want to

play with him again if he keeps hitting them, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you could work on things he could do instead of hitting. It didn't work for us but instead of hitting could he rip paper, squeeze a squishy ball, etc? Our son is just too impulsive and redirection hasn't worked but we'll try again. Hang in there! You will get some great ideas here. Stay with something for awhile and if it doesn't work, try it again in a few months.Noel>> Does anyone have any tips on curbing aggression in a four year old > child with possible AS? My son has definate problems with hitting and > pushing other children. He does this whenever they do something he >

doesn't want them to - meaning if someone tries to play with a toy he > doesn't want them to have, he hits them. If someone doesn't follow his > directions, he hits them. If he can't have something he wants, he'll > hit. You get the picture. He does this at the babysitters, and > especially at home with his little brother. Any suggestions on how to > help him manage his anger, and curb the impulse to hit. We give him a > time out each time he hits, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the > frequency of his hitting at all... I'd love to hear any advice or > suggestions on this, as its a real problem for us right now.> Thanks,> > Jen>

[Guest guest]

We do timeouts like the others have said. We first give a couple of

warnings, usually, and then the kids sit on a chair in the middle of

our kitchen floor (we don't have a really good corner) for 1 minute

per age. We have a really great timer that changes from green to

yellow to red and says, 'Times up' when it's done so they can watch

to see how much longer they have. When the times is up we talk

briefly about what happened, give a hug if he wants and then I ask

him if there is something he needs to say. 9 times out of 10, he'll

apologize.

Someone also mentioned self-timed timeouts. We've done that too.

When he is just plain unruley and won't sit at the dinner table or

has shown he's completely lost all patience, he has to sit on his

bed. The 5 year old is supposed to stay there until we come get him

and talk and usually does. The 3 year old goes to his bed when he

can't stop crying (the most annoying sound in the world). After a

few minutes he'll come out of his room and proclaim, " My sad is

gone! "

Our kids don't get off of the thinking chair when put on so I don't

know what to suggest for that. With our oldest, restraining has

never really worked. I'm not against it, just try to be aware of

what will be more harmful for your guy. In our case, he can't stand

being held and I think it's actually painful for him. Each kid is

different. Like I said, I'm not against it, just be aware. I'm

interested to hear what those classes say about how to keep your

child there if they get up.

Noel

>

> can I ask how you do the timeouts?

>

>

> ( ) Re: Aggression

>

> I'm in the same boat as you are with our 5 year old with possible

> AS. We are going to a doctor who specializes in neurodevelopmental

> disabilities and behavioral developmental pediatrics later this

> month. We are excited to see what he has to say. We are treating

> our son for ADHD too which has, to some extent, helped with some of

> his behavior including the aggressivness but it hasn't been a cure-

> all. I have no answers just that you're not alone.

>

> By the way, we have all but given up on time outs. At school they

> use something similar to it but at home, it just hadn't been

> working. We've really taken the praise approach. We know he needs

> to learn responsibility for his actions and consequences, but

> punishment just hasn't been very productive. We constantly praise

> when he doesn't hit at a moment we can see he really wants to. We

> try to explain that it hurts the other person and they won't want

to

> play with him again if he keeps hitting them, blah, blah, blah.

>

> Maybe you could work on things he could do instead of hitting. It

> didn't work for us but instead of hitting could he rip paper,

squeeze

> a squishy ball, etc? Our son is just too impulsive and redirection

> hasn't worked but we'll try again.

>

> Hang in there! You will get some great ideas here. Stay with

> something for awhile and if it doesn't work, try it again in a few

> months.

>

> Noel

>

[Guest guest]

The way we do time out is the 123 Magic Method. Of course, with hitting, I don’t

count. That’s an automatic

timeout. If I see him hit, I tell

him ‘No hitting. Time out’.

Then he has to go and sit in a designated chair, usually in our living

room –since that’s where we are most of the time. The chair is positioned in a corner of

the room, beside the TV –so that he cannot see TV, and no toys are

allowed. We have a timer that we

set, and when the timer beeps he is allowed to get back up – and then he

has to say he’s sorry. I

usually do the time outs for about 3 minutes, even though he’s four, because

it does seem like torture to him.

He doesn’t like time outs, but he atleast

complies most of the time. On occasion,

if he’s really worked up and won’t sit, or if he continues yelling,

etc –then he has to go to his room for a time out or until he calms

down. He does have toys in there –but

no TV or computer games. I check on

him after a bit too.

He says he hates ‘Time out’ and when he gets

them he seems annoyed and upset –but it hasn’t reduced the hitting

much –if at all. Its almost like he just can’t control that impulse.

Jen

[Guest guest]

This method DID work for a period of time with my son (now 14) when he was 4-6; it was hit and miss; but 123 Magic is great in my opinion; especially for NT kiddos; I still use it in my daycare actually! It is great. Thanks for reminding all of us about it, Jen....glad it is working for you!! Ruthie

[Guest guest]

After a bumpy start, my son adjusted to the timeouts and they were a godsend for both him and me. He had a chance to calm down and not cause more chaos and I got the chance to think about what happened in peace. I really think they helped him figure out how to calm himself down which was virtually impossible until we started them. He was 5 (Kindergarten) when we started and he's 11 now. I still use them with him, but we don't have to do them very often anymore. Usually for him doing something to his younger sister. When he started, he might need a few a day. But it seemed like he'd need several over the course of a few days and then he'd stop whatever he was doing

during the two warnings for awhile b/c he didn't want to go into the time out. Then it would cycle again (frequent time outs for a short period of time and then longer periods of compliant behavior.) The cycles of good behavior would get longer and longer and now he really is a pretty good listener and will get himself in control after a warning or two. I'm amazed when I look back. Don't know what I would've done if they hadn't worked. The key for me was consistency. And if I gave the second warning and he didn't listen, I had to follow through 100% of the time. To be honest, I was probably the most consistent w/ timeouts than I was with anything. Knowing how much Dylan likes predictable situations, that's probably why he didn't resist them anymore after awhile b/c he knew they would ALWAYS happen after that second warning and he could always depend on it. Plus, he probably liked

feeling in control and being able to calm himself down.

( ) Re: Aggression

I'm in the same boat as you are with our 5 year old with possible AS. We are going to a doctor who specializes in neurodevelopmental disabilities and behavioral developmental pediatrics later this month. We are excited to see what he has to say. We are treating our son for ADHD too which has, to some extent, helped with some of his behavior including the aggressivness but it hasn't been a cure-all. I have no answers just that you're not alone. By the way, we have all but given up on time outs. At school they use something similar to it but at home, it just hadn't been working. We've really taken the praise approach. We know he needs to learn responsibility for his actions and consequences, but punishment just hasn't been very productive. We constantly praise when he doesn't hit at a moment we can see he really wants to. We try to explain that it hurts the other person and they won't want to

play with him again if he keeps hitting them, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you could work on things he could do instead of hitting. It didn't work for us but instead of hitting could he rip paper, squeeze a squishy ball, etc? Our son is just too impulsive and redirection hasn't worked but we'll try again. Hang in there! You will get some great ideas here. Stay with something for awhile and if it doesn't work, try it again in a few months.Noel>> Does anyone have any tips on curbing aggression in a four year old > child with possible AS? My son has definate problems with hitting and > pushing other children. He does this whenever they do something he >

doesn't want them to - meaning if someone tries to play with a toy he > doesn't want them to have, he hits them. If someone doesn't follow his > directions, he hits them. If he can't have something he wants, he'll > hit. You get the picture. He does this at the babysitters, and > especially at home with his little brother. Any suggestions on how to > help him manage his anger, and curb the impulse to hit. We give him a > time out each time he hits, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the > frequency of his hitting at all... I'd love to hear any advice or > suggestions on this, as its a real problem for us right now.> Thanks,> > Jen>

[Guest guest]

Have you ever watched "Super Nanny?" She does the time out spot all the time and shows parents how to make them stay in it.

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Re: Aggression

I'm in the same boat as you are with our 5 year old with possible AS. We are going to a doctor who specializes in neurodevelopmental disabilities and behavioral developmental pediatrics later this month. We are excited to see what he has to say. We are treating our son for ADHD too which has, to some extent, helped with some of his behavior including the aggressivness but it hasn't been a cure-all. I have no answers just that you're not alone. By the way, we have all but given up on time outs. At school they use something similar to it but at home, it just hadn't been working. We've really taken the praise approach. We know he needs to learn responsibility for his actions and consequences, but punishment just hasn't been very productive. We constantly praise when he doesn't hit at a moment we can see he really wants to. We try to explain that it hurts the other person and they won't want to play with him again if he keeps hitting them, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you could work on things he could do instead of hitting. It didn't work for us but instead of hitting could he rip paper, squeeze a squishy ball, etc? Our son is just too impulsive and redirection hasn't worked but we'll try again. Hang in there! You will get some great ideas here. Stay with something for awhile and if it doesn't work, try it again in a few months.Noel>> Does anyone have any tips on curbing aggression in a four year old > child with possible AS? My son has definate problems with hitting and > pushing other children. He does this whenever they do something he > doesn't want them to - meaning if someone tries to play with a toy he > doesn't want them to have, he hits them. If someone doesn't follow his > directions, he hits them. If he can't have something he wants, he'll > hit. You get the picture. He does this at the babysitters, and > especially at home with his little brother. Any suggestions on how to > help him manage his anger, and curb the impulse to hit. We give him a > time out each time he hits, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the > frequency of his hitting at all... I'd love to hear any advice or > suggestions on this, as its a real problem for us right now.> Thanks,> > Jen>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad this subject came up too. My son has verbal apraxia and its hard

to make " new " friends. They listen to his speech and kids immediately pick

up that something is wrong or he is " nerdie " and then he tries harder which

makes the situation worse, so either the kids run away from him or he turns to

me. Its heartbreaking, so I try to plan a lot of playdates from school on

weekends so he is around all his friends that accept him and really like him

so he will feel better about himself. Next, I would like to try getting him

a therapist to sit and talk with him to make sure he feels good about

himself.

**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &

Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

hi Jenn,

My son had and has aggression like your son. My son is now 8 years old and his

speech is very disordered and hard to understand most of the time. Yes his

reason at 4 years old were communicative reasons because of his age and because

his speech was even worse than now. He did have poor impulse control and that

would be why even now he stilll has some aggression issues.

In our journey my son has severe anxiety diagnosed from a psychistrist and he is

now going on anti-anxiety med. this med will help him with the impulse control

and not get angrey, sad and lash out so fast when things get tough or when he

doesn't get his way. I am only now ready to start a med becasue behavioral

intervention works for the now but does not work to extinguish the behaviors

altogether. That leads me to believe that his behaviors are not in his control.

He tries so hard to keep it together and then goes into depressions when he has

bad weeks and withdraws from everyone.

By no means am I telling you that your son needs meds but only to show my

journey with my son who is 8.

You must be tough but try to be proactive and give the techniques before the he

is in those situations to lash out. unfortunately you have to be on top on him

all of the time. Its hard not to be able communicate effectivly as well. its

not just not being understood. Just think when you can't explain yourself

correctly its very frustrating. on the other hand i understand that you know

the aggression is not good, that is very healthy and right to think that way.

Another thing the doctors and his teachers are thinking is that he could ADHD,

which a lot of symptoms now really point to that. Lack of impulse control, not

being able to sit for long periods of time, very emotional, hard to socialize

with his peers. I thought it was due to the poor communication (which is also

the problem) but it now possibly ADHD too.

I tell you this so you can understand how we handled it and an older child who

is aggressive. My guy has gotten much better but still he aggresses. He is 4ft

5 " and 85 lbs so I have to get a handle on it or I will see him not in district

but in a complete special needs school.

My advice to keep on eye on the behavior. I don't want your son to get to where

my son is now. Not that he will, I do not want to scare you either. I don't

know your son the way you do.

I hope this helps you not scare you

chris

PS- your a great mom to reach for help. I know the situation your in and its

hard one to be in

[ ] aggression

My son is 4.5 years old. He's was diagnosed first with oral apraxia, and then

with verbal apraxia. He's been in speech therapy since he was 18 months old.

Currently, he is very verbal. He communicates in sentences, but is not always

intelligibile. I think I understand him way more than others do, so I have a

hard time knowing when others find him difficult to understand.

We recently had an appointment with the developmental pediatrician. We've been

having problems with him being aggressive with his little brother, and sometimes

the other two kids at the babysitters. He seems to do okay in preschool though

-- he just keeps to himself. He's very controlling and if others don't play with

the toys the way he wants them to, he gets upset and will lash out. He also gets

upset if he doesn't get what he wants when he wants it and will hit. He's hit,

kicked, thrown things at, and tried to choke his little brother. Don't get me

wrong, there are some times when they get along, but these fights occur several

times a day. The dev. ped suggested that the aggression is a result of his

difficulty with communication. He's not entirely comfortable using his words to

express himself, so he often does it physically. He also suggested that he may

not know how to express his wants effectively using words, so he resorts to

getting physical.

I understand what the dev. ped is saying, but -- Jake does use words. In fact,

AS he is hitting or pushing, he is usually also yelling. I have heard him say

'Can I have that truck?'. So he knows how to ask for things nicely. However, if

the other child doesn't give him the truck immediately, or even worse -says 'no'

--Jake will 'attack'. So it almost seems to me that its more of an impulse

control issue than a communication issue. What do you think?

Will continued improvement in communication skills help this? He does get

consequences for this behavior -time out. And he can state the rule -no

fighting, and no hitting. What else can we do to help curb this behavior?

Thanks,

Jen

[Guest guest]

You know, my sweet adorable Mark did this too. He would suddenly pivot around

with clenched teeth and lash out at my sisters 'wee' kids; once I can remember

him heading for her baby when it was strapped in a car seat. So I do get what

you mean..... it does seem like a lack of impulse control and a violent streak.

Take heart, my boy is now the sweetest kid you'll ever find.

But I do believe that this does have a communication part displayed his

frustration at being unable to communicate. Try to catch him 'before' he

actually becomes aggressive (even if he is in mid-stride with a club in his

hand) and cue him to use words, use words, use words. I used to repeat (like a

parrot) to my kids that people who use fists go to jail but people who use words

get elected to president or run companies!

You have to repeat yourself over and over and over again. As hard as it may be

(and it IS hard for him), your son must learn to use words rather than his

fists.

I remember a stage after this one: Mark would speak really, really loudly so

that others could understand him! There are a lot of stages to apraxia. You

will get through this. Kids with apraxia tend to be really sensitive and

thoughtful deep inside; try having some heart to heart conversations with him

with regards to his behaviour.

Janice

[sPAM][ ] aggression

My son is 4.5 years old. He's was diagnosed first with oral apraxia, and then

with verbal apraxia. He's been in speech therapy since he was 18 months old.

Currently, he is very verbal. He communicates in sentences, but is not always

intelligibile. I think I understand him way more than others do, so I have a

hard time knowing when others find him difficult to understand.

We recently had an appointment with the developmental pediatrician. We've been

having problems with him being aggressive with his little brother, and sometimes

the other two kids at the babysitters. He seems to do okay in preschool though

-- he just keeps to himself. He's very controlling and if others don't play with

the toys the way he wants them to, he gets upset and will lash out. He also gets

upset if he doesn't get what he wants when he wants it and will hit. He's hit,

kicked, thrown things at, and tried to choke his little brother. Don't get me

wrong, there are some times when they get along, but these fights occur several

times a day. The dev. ped suggested that the aggression is a result of his

difficulty with communication. He's not entirely comfortable using his words to

express himself, so he often does it physically. He also suggested that he may

not know how to express his wants effectively using words, so he resorts to

getting physical.

I understand what the dev. ped is saying, but -- Jake does use words. In fact,

AS he is hitting or pushing, he is usually also yelling. I have heard him say

'Can I have that truck?'. So he knows how to ask for things nicely. However, if

the other child doesn't give him the truck immediately, or even worse -says 'no'

--Jake will 'attack'. So it almost seems to me that its more of an impulse

control issue than a communication issue. What do you think?

Will continued improvement in communication skills help this? He does get

consequences for this behavior -time out. And he can state the rule -no

fighting, and no hitting. What else can we do to help curb this behavior?

Thanks,

Jen

[Guest guest]

Of course a communication impaired child has a bit more to deal with -

but aggression is something that many parents have to deal with in

their preschool child -it does not go hand in hand with apraxia.

There are many apraxic children like my son Tanner who go to the

other extreme when frustrated -instead of lashing out they withdraw.

Of course that was Tanner preschool age -today Tanner will stand up

for himself and knows how to deal with frustration and anger in a

healthy way. These are things that we can teach our children.

The following page has many strategies from Dr. Spock -and again

these are for all children-not just special needs " Every child has

angry and aggressive feelings from time to time. Sometimes children

have to leave day care for hitting and biting. Here is information to

help you understand this basic instinct "

http://www.drspock.com/topic/0,1504,123,00.html

In regards to a special needs communication impaired child -there are

some questions to ask yourself. Is the behavior new or has your

child always been like this? If it's new look for clues as to why

the change. At times children may become aggressive because others

are bullying them. For example I'm not for mainstream preschool for

severe verbal impaired preschool children personally and have found

that those are the children that are more likely to be aggressive.

You say he's not aggressive at school to others -how are the other

children towards him? Was he like this prior to starting this

preschool program? Apraxia does not affect a child's cognitive

ability and they push themselves to keep up -but at times it can just

be too much. Is the preschool a mainstream one or special needs?

You may have to consider if there is any teasing or bullying going on

towards your son. You son may not tell you and the teacher may not

notice that your child is being picked on.

If you do believe there is some teasing or bullying going on -you can

do a circle of friends. I have an archive about how I did this in

Tanner's class in kindergarten with Scooby Doo. It works amazingly

well. Let me know if you want me to find the archive and links as to

how the circle of friends works. Information about this is also in

The Late Talker. what to do for anger/defense by acting

scenarios out perhaps. Give him a list of things he 'can' do such as

if talking well enough -leave and tell a teacher if not talking -an

augmentative way to leave and tell a teacher (pictures -even one you

make up and tell him to use when he needs it if it ends up this other

child is the bully. For emergencies -we gave Tanner a whistle when he

couldn't talk and he loved that even though he thank God never needed

to use it for emergencies.)

Talk to your child about his actions and explain why he's being

punished. Take away ___ for a day or so, have him make a picture of

himself and the other child for an apology picture. Let him know that

he not only hurt this other child's feelings, but hurt him.

As far as punishments...

I don't believe in hitting a child to stop them from hitting others.

My brother sister and I were never spanked by our parents so that's

the way I was raised. However I do believe negative actions need to

be punished in an appropriate way -and your child needs to understand

why - or he'll risk growing up with few friends to play with.

Here's more on this from an archive:

Re: Behavioral Problems with Apraxia

Behavioral problems do not go hand in hand with apraxia. They are

secondary to apraxia when due to frustration that goes above and

beyond the norm. First question is what placement is this child in?

(historically these issues happen more when preschool essentially

nonverbal apraxic children are placed into mainstream preschools) Is

Ethan in a mainstream or special ed preschool or both? I'm all for

mainstream k-12 -but have found special ed preschool the way to

typically go for apraxic children. (they do not learn to talk more

in mainstream classes -nor do apraxic children need to learn social

skills)

Of course all kids at this age go through frustration. I just heard

a story from one teacher about a " normal " boy who was upset and

grabbed a butterfly that the class watched turn from a cocoon to a

butterfly and tore off the wings in front of the class to the shock

and horror of the teacher and other preschool children. When the

mother was told what happened she got very upset and said " Why are

you picking on my child?! " Yes that's one way to look at it...

In the long run however we need to teach right from wrong -not make

excuses for bad behavior (late talking or sensory issues or not) and

to be consistent. Children should have a way to express anger,

frustration or other " bad " feelings in a healthy way.

(and learn that " just because ___ " they are not excused)

There is a ton about this in the archives -but here's one story about

a preschool apraxic child named Evan written by his mom called " A

very tough year " (schooled in both special ed and mainstream

preschool programs)

http://www.latetalker.com/information/familiesrelate/staci.html

=====

[Guest guest]

I'm glad this issue has come up. My son has begun acting somewhat aggressively

at times.....it seems to be when kids are ignoring him, or dominating the

" game " . He will only act out on younger, smaller kids, though. SInce he's so

big, it can get scary.

One such example happened only a few days ago. We were at the park, and he was

playing with another girl who is 6 months older, and far more verbal than he.

They were chasing the ball, and she was somewhat domineering during the

game.....keeping the ball away from him. After the game was over, he ran up to

another little guy (one year yonger than him -- and unrelated to the game), and

pushed him down. It was on the pavement, and I fortunately caught the other kid

to prevent injury. Fortunately, we know all of these kids, so I was able to

apologize to the mom from a personal standpoint.

But my question at the time was -- " where did this behavior come from? " Is it

frustration? bullying? typical part of development? related to apraxia?

@...: jscott@...: Tue, 11

Mar 2008 07:22:45 -0700Subject: Re: [ ] aggression

You know, my sweet adorable Mark did this too. He would suddenly pivot around

with clenched teeth and lash out at my sisters 'wee' kids; once I can remember

him heading for her baby when it was strapped in a car seat. So I do get what

you mean..... it does seem like a lack of impulse control and a violent streak.

Take heart, my boy is now the sweetest kid you'll ever find.But I do believe

that this does have a communication part displayed his frustration at being

unable to communicate. Try to catch him 'before' he actually becomes aggressive

(even if he is in mid-stride with a club in his hand) and cue him to use words,

use words, use words. I used to repeat (like a parrot) to my kids that people

who use fists go to jail but people who use words get elected to president or

run companies!You have to repeat yourself over and over and over again. As hard

as it may be (and it IS hard for him), your son must learn to use words rather

than his fists.I remember a stage after this one: Mark would speak really,

really loudly so that others could understand him! There are a lot of stages to

apraxia. You will get through this. Kids with apraxia tend to be really

sensitive and thoughtful deep inside; try having some heart to heart

conversations with him with regards to his behaviour.Janice ----- Original

Message ----- From: Jen Sent:

Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:37 AMSubject: [sPAM][ ] aggressionMy

son is 4.5 years old. He's was diagnosed first with oral apraxia, and then with

verbal apraxia. He's been in speech therapy since he was 18 months old.

Currently, he is very verbal. He communicates in sentences, but is not always

intelligibile. I think I understand him way more than others do, so I have a

hard time knowing when others find him difficult to understand. We recently had

an appointment with the developmental pediatrician. We've been having problems

with him being aggressive with his little brother, and sometimes the other two

kids at the babysitters. He seems to do okay in preschool though -- he just

keeps to himself. He's very controlling and if others don't play with the toys

the way he wants them to, he gets upset and will lash out. He also gets upset if

he doesn't get what he wants when he wants it and will hit. He's hit, kicked,

thrown things at, and tried to choke his little brother. Don't get me wrong,

there are some times when they get along, but these fights occur several times a

day. The dev. ped suggested that the aggression is a result of his difficulty

with communication. He's not entirely comfortable using his words to express

himself, so he often does it physically. He also suggested that he may not know

how to express his wants effectively using words, so he resorts to getting

physical.I understand what the dev. ped is saying, but -- Jake does use words.

In fact, AS he is hitting or pushing, he is usually also yelling. I have heard

him say 'Can I have that truck?'. So he knows how to ask for things nicely.

However, if the other child doesn't give him the truck immediately, or even

worse -says 'no' --Jake will 'attack'. So it almost seems to me that its more of

an impulse control issue than a communication issue. What do you think?Will

continued improvement in communication skills help this? He does get

consequences for this behavior -time out. And he can state the rule -no

fighting, and no hitting. What else can we do to help curb this

behavior?Thanks,Jen[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

[Guest guest]

I think it is frustration and looking for an easy target. Like the

teen years early.

>

>

> I'm glad this issue has come up. My son has begun acting somewhat

aggressively at times.....it seems to be when kids are ignoring him,

or dominating the " game " . He will only act out on younger, smaller

kids, though. SInce he's so big, it can get scary.

>

> One such example happened only a few days ago. We were at the

park, and he was playing with another girl who is 6 months older, and

far more verbal than he. They were chasing the ball, and she was

somewhat domineering during the game.....keeping the ball away from

him. After the game was over, he ran up to another little guy (one

year yonger than him -- and unrelated to the game), and pushed him

down. It was on the pavement, and I fortunately caught the other kid

to prevent injury. Fortunately, we know all of these kids, so I was

able to apologize to the mom from a personal standpoint.

>

> But my question at the time was -- " where did this behavior come

from? " Is it frustration? bullying? typical part of development?

related to apraxia?

>

>

>

>

> @...: jscott@...: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:22:45 -

0700Subject: Re: [ ] aggression

>

>

>

>

> You know, my sweet adorable Mark did this too. He would suddenly

pivot around with clenched teeth and lash out at my sisters 'wee'

kids; once I can remember him heading for her baby when it was

strapped in a car seat. So I do get what you mean..... it does seem

like a lack of impulse control and a violent streak. Take heart, my

boy is now the sweetest kid you'll ever find.But I do believe that

this does have a communication part displayed his frustration at

being unable to communicate. Try to catch him 'before' he actually

becomes aggressive (even if he is in mid-stride with a club in his

hand) and cue him to use words, use words, use words. I used to

repeat (like a parrot) to my kids that people who use fists go to

jail but people who use words get elected to president or run

companies!You have to repeat yourself over and over and over again.

As hard as it may be (and it IS hard for him), your son must learn to

use words rather than his fists.I remember a stage after this one:

Mark would speak really, really loudly so that others could

understand him! There are a lot of stages to apraxia. You will get

through this. Kids with apraxia tend to be really sensitive and

thoughtful deep inside; try having some heart to heart conversations

with him with regards to his behaviour.Janice [sPAM][ ]

aggressionMy son is 4.5 years old. He's was diagnosed first with oral

apraxia, and then with verbal apraxia. He's been in speech therapy

since he was 18 months old. Currently, he is very verbal. He

communicates in sentences, but is not always intelligibile. I think I

understand him way more than others do, so I have a hard time knowing

when others find him difficult to understand. We recently had an

appointment with the developmental pediatrician. We've been having

problems with him being aggressive with his little brother, and

sometimes the other two kids at the babysitters. He seems to do okay

in preschool though -- he just keeps to himself. He's very

controlling and if others don't play with the toys the way he wants

them to, he gets upset and will lash out. He also gets upset if he

doesn't get what he wants when he wants it and will hit. He's hit,

kicked, thrown things at, and tried to choke his little brother.

Don't get me wrong, there are some times when they get along, but

these fights occur several times a day. The dev. ped suggested that

the aggression is a result of his difficulty with communication. He's

not entirely comfortable using his words to express himself, so he

often does it physically. He also suggested that he may not know how

to express his wants effectively using words, so he resorts to

getting physical.I understand what the dev. ped is saying, but --

Jake does use words. In fact, AS he is hitting or pushing, he is

usually also yelling. I have heard him say 'Can I have that truck?'.

So he knows how to ask for things nicely. However, if the other child

doesn't give him the truck immediately, or even worse -says 'no' --

Jake will 'attack'. So it almost seems to me that its more of an

impulse control issue than a communication issue. What do you think?

Will continued improvement in communication skills help this? He does

get consequences for this behavior -time out. And he can state the

rule -no fighting, and no hitting. What else can we do to help curb

this behavior?Thanks,Jen[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

[Guest guest]

,

That one is clearly an example of the bullying 'control' issue. It is important

to differentiate aggression from a response to bullying and sometimes you need

to do some detective work to ferret the evil item out.

For example..... Long after Mark's aggressive tendency's disappeared, he would

get bullied. Once he was at a hockey camp where there kids would swim in the

pool in the afternoon; he was approx. kindergarden age. Some older girls

cornered him in the pool and 'for fun' accosted him and pulled down his bathing

suit. Each time he tried to get away, they chased him and did it again.

Finally one of the camp moderators saw what what happening and intervened.

Probably an hour later, Mark committed the same act to a younger child.

We had a long talk after that; and we have had a lot of long talks about

bullying and how repeating the action is wrong. Believe it or not, these types

of talks really worked with Mark. Over time we really would 'discuss' all of

the different issues on an intellectual level and little did I know how this

would serve him and create a person who truly understood right from wrong.

Bullying perpetuates bullying. Some schools are bullying schools and once

engrained, it is really tough to get it out of the school!

Janice

[sPAM]RE: [ ] aggression

I'm glad this issue has come up. My son has begun acting somewhat aggressively

at times.....it seems to be when kids are ignoring him, or dominating the

" game " . He will only act out on younger, smaller kids, though. SInce he's so

big, it can get scary.

One such example happened only a few days ago. We were at the park, and he was

playing with another girl who is 6 months older, and far more verbal than he.

They were chasing the ball, and she was somewhat domineering during the

game.....keeping the ball away from him. After the game was over, he ran up to

another little guy (one year yonger than him -- and unrelated to the game), and

pushed him down. It was on the pavement, and I fortunately caught the other kid

to prevent injury. Fortunately, we know all of these kids, so I was able to

apologize to the mom from a personal standpoint.

But my question at the time was -- " where did this behavior come from? " Is it

frustration? bullying? typical part of development? related to apraxia?

[Guest guest]

I agree with the heart to heart talks. sometimes you may think they don't

understand but they really do.The lack of speech sometimes led me to believe

my daughter didn't understand and then she'd surprise me and repeat my word

when she saw disaggrements happening between two other children...and as

Janice says lots of repetition really works..They really are sensitive

little ones.

Roxanne

[Guest guest]

I think aggressive behavior is either learned by watching other kids or

something the child tries out to see if they can get away with it. I

have two boys and sometimes I really think they don't like each other!

When Landon was non-verbal, he understood everything that was said to

him. His receptive language was always age appropriate and he could

follow step by step instructions at 2 years old. I never allowed the

apraxia to be a free pass with his behavior. Even when he couldn't

speak and he was mean to his brother, he had to hug his brother as his

sorry. Now that he is able to talk, he is told to use his words when

he gets mad at his brother instead of hitting him. If they do hit each

other then there are consequences for their actions and then they have

to apoligize to each other. They are funny because they are only mean

to each other and never other children. There is a 3.5 yr age

difference between the two so it is constant reminding for the older

one to stop teaching the younger one how to be naughty. It takes a lot

of patience and not letting them get away with the behavior. I can

tell when I get lazy because they take advantage of the opportunity!

For us, it means staying on top of them and letting them know what is

appropriate and whats not, which equals constant reminding!

Tina

>

> I agree with the heart to heart talks. sometimes you may think they

don't

> understand but they really do.The lack of speech sometimes led me to

believe

> my daughter didn't understand and then she'd surprise me and repeat

my word

> when she saw disaggrements happening between two other children...and

as

> Janice says lots of repetition really works..They really are sensitive

> little ones.

>

> Roxanne

>

[Guest guest]

Tina,

If it's any solace to you; siblings who fight are supposed to grow very close as

adults. Siblings who don't fight are often indifferent as adults.

My sister and I both had drop down, drag out wars...... today she is my best

friend! So.... perhaps there is a bucket of gold at the end of this particular

rainbow! What you are describing is pretty normal behaviour. Keeping our kids

as NT as possible and treating them as NT as possible despite their dyspraxia

must be our goal.

Janice

[sPAM][ ] Re: aggression

I think aggressive behavior is either learned by watching other kids or

something the child tries out to see if they can get away with it. I

have two boys and sometimes I really think they don't like each other!

When Landon was non-verbal, he understood everything that was said to

him. His receptive language was always age appropriate and he could

follow step by step instructions at 2 years old. I never allowed the

apraxia to be a free pass with his behavior. Even when he couldn't

speak and he was mean to his brother, he had to hug his brother as his

sorry. Now that he is able to talk, he is told to use his words when

he gets mad at his brother instead of hitting him. If they do hit each

other then there are consequences for their actions and then they have

to apoligize to each other. They are funny because they are only mean

to each other and never other children. There is a 3.5 yr age

difference between the two so it is constant reminding for the older

one to stop teaching the younger one how to be naughty. It takes a lot

of patience and not letting them get away with the behavior. I can

tell when I get lazy because they take advantage of the opportunity!

For us, it means staying on top of them and letting them know what is

appropriate and whats not, which equals constant reminding!

Tina

>

> I agree with the heart to heart talks. sometimes you may think they

don't

> understand but they really do.The lack of speech sometimes led me to

believe

> my daughter didn't understand and then she'd surprise me and repeat

my word

> when she saw disaggrements happening between two other children...and

as

> Janice says lots of repetition really works..They really are sensitive

> little ones.

>

> Roxanne

>

[Guest guest]

I have the same kids here. Cabin fever from being stuck inside with

the flu has brought some real aggression but they would never do it

to a kid other than each other...so far. I hope it stays that way.

> >

> > I agree with the heart to heart talks. sometimes you may think

they

> don't

> > understand but they really do.The lack of speech sometimes led me

to

> believe

> > my daughter didn't understand and then she'd surprise me and

repeat

> my word

> > when she saw disaggrements happening between two other

children...and

> as

> > Janice says lots of repetition really works..They really are

sensitive

> > little ones.

> >

> > Roxanne

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/05/2009 19:05:34 GMT Daylight Time, esmewillcocks@... writes:

Wondered if anyone might be able to help. My friend has an ASD son aged 8 who is going through a very aggressive stage. Hitting and biting anyone in sight. Definitely likes getting a very negative reaction, it's as if it spurs him on to do more.

>>There was a full moon last Saturday which often causes impulsive and aggressive behaviours in my son, did it come on suddenly or has it been a while?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

HOw much sugar or  refined carbs is he having?  I am a monster if I overdo sugars and have a sharp change in blood sugars-  and by constantly feeding the sugar wagon of high and low, I can sustain this monster!!

 

Tracey

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, esmewillcocks <esmewillcocks@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,Wondered if anyone might be able to help. My friend has an ASD son aged 8 who is going through a very aggressive stage. Hitting and biting anyone in sight. Definitely likes getting a very negative reaction, it's as if it spurs him on to do more.

I've suggested she consult with a homeopath but was wondering if there was anything biomedical that she could give him to help.ThanksEsme

[Guest guest]

HOw much sugar or  refined carbs is he having?  I am a monster if I overdo sugars and have a sharp change in blood sugars-  and by constantly feeding the sugar wagon of high and low, I can sustain this monster!!

 

Tracey

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, esmewillcocks <esmewillcocks@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,Wondered if anyone might be able to help. My friend has an ASD son aged 8 who is going through a very aggressive stage. Hitting and biting anyone in sight. Definitely likes getting a very negative reaction, it's as if it spurs him on to do more.

I've suggested she consult with a homeopath but was wondering if there was anything biomedical that she could give him to help.ThanksEsme