Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

[Guest guest]

What I said today is not inconsistent with what I said a day ago. "Excuse me for clarifying, for crying out loud" ??? Apparently, you find me irritating, so I shall bow out of further discourse with you.HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 2:46:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Well, of course it comes down to what it means to each of us. This is not what you said a day ago. Gee... Excuse me for clarifying, for crying out loud. I do think that how we hold this matters. It's not just mumbo jumbo To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Semantics mumbo jumbo, methinks. Who cares if you think of it as a value? Or as a skill? However best the concept of "compassion" works FOR YOU - go with it. Although I am all for clarifying concepts and definitions, it comes down to what it means to you, how it works for you, as an individual. It is not "one size fits all." I sometimes think of compassion as a value and sometimes as a skill. To me, it can be either, depending on the situation. A value to guide my life, a skill to use in my life.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:11:10 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi Terry.

That wasn't what I meant to say. I find that self-compassion sits uneasily with me. Instinctively it feels self-indulgent. It feels like I am making excuses for myself. I certainly wouldn't place it in my values category, not because I am bad at it, but because it would never be something I would want to define me.

So why do I want to learn it if it's not a value? Because it might help me! Same with all ACT skills.

(I am only speaking for myself here, naturally).

x

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 23:42Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Well, this is interesting. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but sure sounds a bit like you guys are saying that because you're so lousy at something, it's therefore not a value but only a skill.

That's not where I look to see if something is valued for me. How do you even sense self-compassion is something you want to learn if it's not important, of meaning for you?

If it doesn't matter, why bother?

I tend to see self-compassion as both a value (as in a quality of being with myself that I care deeply about, hold dear)

AND

I see it as something that may be unfamiliar for meANDit's certainly a posture I can become more adept at, more skilled at calling forth by practicing different exercises.

Like acceptance of self, it's a process.

That's how I see it, anyway.terry

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:38 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

, I had to giggle at your description of yourself as a naturally reserved Brit! I dated one a long time ago for a couple years. You are so right about the "reserved" part, especially when it came to expressing emotions. Yet, he was very sexy! We American girls seem to drool over the British accent.

I like your description of compassion as a skill rather than a value. I think that is so true, especially when it comes to self-compassion, which is hardest for me. I am easily and naturally compassionate about others (which means not wanting to see them suffer or in pain and trying to help when I can). As for me, I tend to kick myself for being "less than" I should be - that should word is a killer.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:06:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

For me, self-compassion isn't a value. It's a skill. It's a skill I am desperately poor at, given how very easily I buy into the acerbic self-judgements of my mind. I think most people on this list find it hard too.

But I can see how hard to you find it to swallow. I have found it very hard to overcome my naturally reserved (I am British, after all!) personality and start to feel that it's not wrong or indulgent to give myself gentle encouragement and understanding from time to time.

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 0:57Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Terry,I really liked your comments. I laughed a little reading your "Santa Fe" comment.A lot of the "compassionate" comments on this list are kind of creepy to me. Your comments were a breath of fresh air.People have different likes and taste and "values". So don't worry if you don't conform to this mushy compassion. It's not one of my values and I think many on this list over rates it.

This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you will excuse the stereotype.

One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself.

Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it seems.

terry

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.

Check the books website:

http://www.self-compassion.org/

Hi Terry

What's the title of this book?--------------------------------

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PMSubject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a

slow long deep breath. Really see it as a meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.

The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category.

Anyone else using this stuff?

BTW, I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.

terry

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am new to this group. I've been lurking for a while.

My thoughts on this - firstly, I see lots of " thoughts " - those things that ACT

teaches us not to attach to. ACT is based on Relational Frame Theory, which

essentially, if I understand it correctly (and I may have it wrong) is about how

we as individuals relate to something, someone, a place, WORDS etc. ie - a

spider is not a scarey thing to me, but to many it is - this is based on what

shaped your mindframe of spiders - be it an experience or fear transference from

a parent etc. Words have the same effect - they can mean one thing to someone

and have a totally different meaning to someone else. I work with techies - I

call them " geeks " , to me it is a term of endearment - besides, no one sneers at

geeks like Bill Gates, but one of my team is highly offended - he probably got

bullied as a kid at school or something like that and has not shaken that

experience. So, this is why ACT teaches us that the words dont matter, they

start to matter when we hook our emotions to them and then they start to control

us - that is what diffusion is about. - this is thought one in response to some

rather emotional reaction to words I have seen on this post - bottom line - it

does not matter unless you let it matter.

My second thought - compassion is both a noun and verb depending on how you use

it. That means it can be both a value and a skill. If compassion is a value,

your living it becomes a verb through acts of compassion, and then it becomes a

skill - so both are correct.

My final thought/observation - if compassion is a value, is it a value for

everyone (including yourself/myself) or is it a value for everyone (excluding

yourself/myself) and if it is the later why? Why do you not have the right to

compassion? Compassion is about love, and how can you love others if you cannot

love yourself? And if you cant love yourself, why not? Are you judging

yourself. Another tenant of ACT is non-judgement(that is the mindfulness part).

Are you judging yourself unworthy of compassion or love?

Compassion and empathy are very closely related and I have recently discovered

the work of Brene Brown on vulnerability and shame, which are closely linked to

this. Find her talks on TED.com or google them - they are worth checking out.

Just my " thoughts " . You can let them pass or you can hook onto them... :-)

Bronwyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some

of it is unnecessary.

>

>

>

> I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red

wine.

>

>

>

>

> From: Theresa Linder < theresa.linder@... >

> To: " ACT_for_the_Public " <

ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice

value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached,

very " Santa Fe " if you will excuse the stereotype.

>

>

> One of weirder statements (as in " what doesn't belong here? " ) that pops out is

the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol

alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process

and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an " oh so compassionate "

way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

>

>

>

> Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line

about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a

self-compassionate embrace.

>

>

> Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself.

>

>

> Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it seems.

>

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

> From: Jespersen < jespersen.thomas@... >

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice

value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not Terry but the book is simply called " Self Compassion " . I recommend it

as well.

>

>

> Check the books website:

>

>

> http://www.self-compassion.org/

>

>

> <blockquote>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Terry

>

>

> What's the title of this book?

> --------------------------------

>

>

> To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM

> Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs.

cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far.

Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and

a

>

> slow long deep breath. Really see it as a meta-value and a strong form of

acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really

resonates.

>

> The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and

self-critical category.

>

>

> Anyone else using this stuff?

>

>

> BTW, I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and

in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help

move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> </blockquote>

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, thank you! Bre From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of bushcamp01Sent: July 24, 2012 8:05 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique Hi, I am new to this group. I've been lurking for a while.My thoughts on this - firstly, I see lots of " thoughts " - those things that ACT teaches us not to attach to. ACT is based on Relational Frame Theory, which essentially, if I understand it correctly (and I may have it wrong) is about how we as individuals relate to something, someone, a place, WORDS etc. ie - a spider is not a scarey thing to me, but to many it is - this is based on what shaped your mindframe of spiders - be it an experience or fear transference from a parent etc. Words have the same effect - they can mean one thing to someone and have a totally different meaning to someone else. I work with techies - I call them " geeks " , to me it is a term of endearment - besides, no one sneers at geeks like Bill Gates, but one of my team is highly offended - he probably got bullied as a kid at school or something like that and has not shaken that experience. So, this is why ACT teaches us that the words dont matter, they start to matter when we hook our emotions to them and then they start to control us - that is what diffusion is about. - this is thought one in response to some rather emotional reaction to words I have seen on this post - bottom line - it does not matter unless you let it matter.My second thought - compassion is both a noun and verb depending on how you use it. That means it can be both a value and a skill. If compassion is a value, your living it becomes a verb through acts of compassion, and then it becomes a skill - so both are correct.My final thought/observation - if compassion is a value, is it a value for everyone (including yourself/myself) or is it a value for everyone (excluding yourself/myself) and if it is the later why? Why do you not have the right to compassion? Compassion is about love, and how can you love others if you cannot love yourself? And if you cant love yourself, why not? Are you judging yourself. Another tenant of ACT is non-judgement(that is the mindfulness part). Are you judging yourself unworthy of compassion or love?Compassion and empathy are very closely related and I have recently discovered the work of Brene Brown on vulnerability and shame, which are closely linked to this. Find her talks on TED.com or google them - they are worth checking out.Just my " thoughts " . You can let them pass or you can hook onto them... :-)Bronwyn > > > > > > > > > This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary. > > > > I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine. > > > > > From: Theresa Linder < theresa.linder@... > > To: " ACT_for_the_Public " < ACT_for_the_Public > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM > > Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very " Santa Fe " if you will excuse the stereotype. > > > One of weirder statements (as in " what doesn't belong here? " ) that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an " oh so compassionate " way to unwind after a long day seems weird. > > > > Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace. > > > Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself. > > > Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it seems. > > > > terry > > > > > From: Jespersen < jespersen.thomas@... > > To: ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique > > > > > > I'm not Terry but the book is simply called " Self Compassion " . I recommend it as well. > > > Check the books website: > > > http://www.self-compassion.org/ > > > <blockquote>> > > > > > Hi Terry > > > What's the title of this book? > -------------------------------- > > > To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM > Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique > > > > > > > > > I'm reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a > > slow long deep breath. Really see it as a meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates. > > The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category. > > > Anyone else using this stuff? > > > BTW, I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem. > > > terry > > > > > > > > > </blockquote>>

[Guest guest]

Yes, you will see a lot of emotional attachment to words and thoughts in the posts here. That is how we learn - by opening up and sharing our vulnerabilities and imperfections so we can learn from observing and connecting with each other. I see myself getting hooked frequently; thus, I have yet another opportunity to learn how to unhook, detach, defuse. Over and over. I am making progress, and that is good enough for me - today, right now, in this moment. I'm doubt I will ever achieve perfection, but I no longer see myself as unworthy of compassion and love like I used to before I practiced ACT.Welcome!HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:04:39 AMSubject: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi, I am new to this group. I've been lurking for a while.

My thoughts on this - firstly, I see lots of "thoughts" - those things that ACT teaches us not to attach to. ACT is based on Relational Frame Theory, which essentially, if I understand it correctly (and I may have it wrong) is about how we as individuals relate to something, someone, a place, WORDS etc. ie - a spider is not a scarey thing to me, but to many it is - this is based on what shaped your mindframe of spiders - be it an experience or fear transference from a parent etc. Words have the same effect - they can mean one thing to someone and have a totally different meaning to someone else. I work with techies - I call them "geeks", to me it is a term of endearment - besides, no one sneers at geeks like Bill Gates, but one of my team is highly offended - he probably got bullied as a kid at school or something like that and has not shaken that experience. So, this is why ACT teaches us that the words dont matter, they start to matter when we hook our emotions to them and then they start to control us - that is what diffusion is about. - this is thought one in response to some rather emotional reaction to words I have seen on this post - bottom line - it does not matter unless you let it matter.

My second thought - compassion is both a noun and verb depending on how you use it. That means it can be both a value and a skill. If compassion is a value, your living it becomes a verb through acts of compassion, and then it becomes a skill - so both are correct.

My final thought/observation - if compassion is a value, is it a value for everyone (including yourself/myself) or is it a value for everyone (excluding yourself/myself) and if it is the later why? Why do you not have the right to compassion? Compassion is about love, and how can you love others if you cannot love yourself? And if you cant love yourself, why not? Are you judging yourself. Another tenant of ACT is non-judgement(that is the mindfulness part). Are you judging yourself unworthy of compassion or love?

Compassion and empathy are very closely related and I have recently discovered the work of Brene Brown on vulnerability and shame, which are closely linked to this. Find her talks on TED.com or google them - they are worth checking out.

Just my "thoughts". You can let them pass or you can hook onto them... :-)

Bronwyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

>

>

>

> I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

>

>

>

>

> From: Theresa Linder < theresa.linder@... >

> To: " ACT_for_the_Public " < ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you will excuse the stereotype.

>

>

> One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

>

>

>

> Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

>

>

> Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself.

>

>

> Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it seems.

>

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

> From: Jespersen < jespersen.thomas@... >

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.

>

>

> Check the books website:

>

>

> http://www.self-compassion.org/

>

>

> <blockquote>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Terry

>

>

> What's the title of this book?

> --------------------------------

>

>

> To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM

> Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a

>

> slow long deep breath. Really see it as a meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.

>

> The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category.

>

>

> Anyone else using this stuff?

>

>

> BTW, I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> </blockquote>

>

[Guest guest]

,Of course you value helping yourself--that's the value of self-compassion!terry To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 AM Subject: Re:

Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi Terry. That wasn't what I meant to say. I find that self-compassion sits uneasily with me. Instinctively it feels self-indulgent. It feels like I am making excuses for myself. I certainly wouldn't place it in my values category, not because I am bad at it, but because it would never be something I would want to define me. So why do I want to learn it if it's not a value? Because it might help me! Same with all ACT skills. (I am only speaking for myself here, naturally). x To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 23:42 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Well, this is interesting. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but sure sounds a bit like you guys are saying that because you're so lousy at something, it's therefore not a value but only a skill.That's not where I look to see if something is valued for me.

How do you even sense self-compassion is something you want to learn if it's not important, of meaning for you?If it doesn't matter, why bother? I tend to see self-compassion as both a value (as in a quality of being with myself that I care deeply about, hold dear) AND I see it as something that may be unfamiliar for meANDit's certainly a posture I can become more adept at, more skilled at calling forth by practicing different

exercises. Like acceptance of self, it's a process. That's how I see it, anyway.terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:38 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

, I had to giggle at your description of yourself as a naturally reserved Brit! I dated one a long time ago for a couple years. You are so right about the "reserved" part, especially when it came to expressing emotions. Yet, he was very sexy! We American girls seem to drool over the British accent.I like your description of compassion as a skill rather than a value. I think that is so true, especially when it comes to self-compassion, which is hardest for me. I am easily and naturally compassionate about others (which means not wanting to see them suffer or in pain and trying to help when I can). As for me, I tend

to kick

myself for being "less than" I should be -

that should word is a killer. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:06:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

For me, self-compassion isn't a value. It's a skill. It's a skill I am desperately poor at, given how very easily I buy into the acerbic self-judgements of my mind. I think most people on this list find it hard too. But I can see how hard to you find it to swallow. I have found it very hard to overcome my naturally reserved (I am British, after all!) personality and start to feel that it's not wrong or indulgent to give myself gentle encouragement and understanding from time to time. To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 0:57 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Terry,I really liked your comments. I laughed a little reading your "Santa Fe" comment.A lot of the "compassionate" comments on this list are kind of creepy to me. Your comments were a breath of fresh air.

People have different likes and taste and "values". So don't worry if you don't conform to this mushy compassion. It's not one of my values and I think many on this list over rates it.

This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you

will excuse the stereotype.One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself. Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it

seems.terry

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.Check the books website:http://www.self-compassion.org/

Hi TerryWhat's the title of this book?-------------------------------- To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm

reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a slow long deep breath. Really see it as a

meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category. Anyone else using this stuff?BTW,

I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and

in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.terry

[Guest guest]

Hey , I'm new to this terminology.I think self-compassion is indeed a bit "self-indulgent", depending on how you are defining that term. But it's all that and SO much more.It's a focus on nurturing your self, feeding yourself, hugging yourself, validating your inner child.I guess the thing is.. I don't get what the fear is there? ..I'd ask you: What is it you're afraid will happen if you are truly self-compassionate?And BTW, you don't have to answer aloud if you don't care to now... just a question to sit

with.terry To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi Terry. That wasn't what I meant to say. I find that self-compassion sits uneasily with me. Instinctively it feels self-indulgent. It feels like I am making excuses for myself. I certainly wouldn't place it in my values category, not because I am bad at it, but because it would never be something I would want to define me. So why do I want to learn it if it's not a value? Because it might help me! Same with all ACT skills. (I am only speaking for myself here, naturally). x To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 23:42 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Well, this is interesting. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but sure sounds a bit like you guys are saying that because you're so lousy at something, it's therefore not a value but only a skill.That's not where I look to see if something is valued for me.

How do you even sense self-compassion is something you want to learn if it's not important, of meaning for you?If it doesn't matter, why bother? I tend to see self-compassion as both a value (as in a quality of being with myself that I care deeply about, hold dear) AND I see it as something that may be unfamiliar for meANDit's certainly a posture I can become more adept at, more skilled at calling forth by practicing different

exercises. Like acceptance of self, it's a process. That's how I see it, anyway.terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:38 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

, I had to giggle at your description of yourself as a naturally reserved Brit! I dated one a long time ago for a couple years. You are so right about the "reserved" part, especially when it came to expressing emotions. Yet, he was very sexy! We American girls seem to drool over the British accent.I like your description of compassion as a skill rather than a value. I think that is so true, especially when it comes to self-compassion, which is hardest for me. I am easily and naturally compassionate about others (which means not wanting to see them suffer or in pain and trying to help when I can). As for me, I tend

to kick

myself for being "less than" I should be -

that should word is a killer. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:06:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

For me, self-compassion isn't a value. It's a skill. It's a skill I am desperately poor at, given how very easily I buy into the acerbic self-judgements of my mind. I think most people on this list find it hard too. But I can see how hard to you find it to swallow. I have found it very hard to overcome my naturally reserved (I am British, after all!) personality and start to feel that it's not wrong or indulgent to give myself gentle encouragement and understanding from time to time. To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 0:57 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Terry,I really liked your comments. I laughed a little reading your "Santa Fe" comment.A lot of the "compassionate" comments on this list are kind of creepy to me. Your comments were a breath of fresh air.

People have different likes and taste and "values". So don't worry if you don't conform to this mushy compassion. It's not one of my values and I think many on this list over rates it.

This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you

will excuse the stereotype.One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself. Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it

seems.terry

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.Check the books website:http://www.self-compassion.org/

Hi TerryWhat's the title of this book?-------------------------------- To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm

reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a slow long deep breath. Really see it as a

meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category. Anyone else using this stuff?BTW,

I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and

in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.terry

[Guest guest]

Thanks Terry, I'll sit with it x To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent:

Wednesday, 25 July 2012, 0:29 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hey , I'm new to this terminology.I think self-compassion is indeed a bit "self-indulgent", depending on how you are defining that term. But it's all that and SO much more.It's a focus on nurturing your self, feeding yourself, hugging yourself, validating your inner child.I guess the thing is.. I don't get what the fear is there? ..I'd ask you: What is it you're afraid will happen if you are truly self-compassionate?And BTW, you don't have to answer aloud if you don't care to now... just a question to sit

with.terry To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi Terry. That wasn't what I meant to say. I find that self-compassion sits uneasily with me. Instinctively it feels self-indulgent. It feels like I am making excuses for myself. I certainly wouldn't place it in my values category, not because I am bad at it, but because it would never be something I would want to define me. So why do I want to learn it if it's not a value? Because it might help me! Same with all ACT skills. (I am only speaking for myself here, naturally). x To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 23:42 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Well, this is interesting. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but sure sounds a bit like you guys are saying that because you're so lousy at something, it's therefore not a value but only a skill.That's not where I look to see if something is valued for me.

How do you even sense self-compassion is something you want to learn if it's not important, of meaning for you?If it doesn't matter, why bother? I tend to see self-compassion as both a value (as in a quality of being with myself that I care deeply about, hold dear) AND I see it as something that may be unfamiliar for meANDit's certainly a posture I can become more adept at, more skilled at calling forth by practicing different

exercises. Like acceptance of self, it's a process. That's how I see it, anyway.terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:38 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

, I had to giggle at your description of yourself as a naturally reserved Brit! I dated one a long time ago for a couple years. You are so right about the "reserved" part, especially when it came to expressing emotions. Yet, he was very sexy! We American girls seem to drool over the British accent.I like your description of compassion as a skill rather than a value. I think that is so true, especially when it comes to self-compassion, which is hardest for me. I am easily and naturally compassionate about others (which means not wanting to see them suffer or in pain and trying to help when I can). As for me, I tend

to kick

myself for being "less than" I should be -

that should word is a killer. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 3:06:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

For me, self-compassion isn't a value. It's a skill. It's a skill I am desperately poor at, given how very easily I buy into the acerbic self-judgements of my mind. I think most people on this list find it hard too. But I can see how hard to you find it to swallow. I have found it very hard to overcome my naturally reserved (I am British, after all!) personality and start to feel that it's not wrong or indulgent to give myself gentle encouragement and understanding from time to time. To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012, 0:57 Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Terry,I really liked your comments. I laughed a little reading your "Santa Fe" comment.A lot of the "compassionate" comments on this list are kind of creepy to me. Your comments were a breath of fresh air.

People have different likes and taste and "values". So don't worry if you don't conform to this mushy compassion. It's not one of my values and I think many on this list over rates it.

This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you

will excuse the stereotype.One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself. Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it

seems.terry

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.Check the books website:http://www.self-compassion.org/

Hi TerryWhat's the title of this book?-------------------------------- To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

I'm

reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a slow long deep breath. Really see it as a

meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category. Anyone else using this stuff?BTW,

I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and

in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.terry

[Guest guest]

I want to thank all of you for sharing with me in this thread about self-compassion I started a week or so ago. I agree with Helena that this is how we learn...we traverse the uncharted territory together, we hold lights for one another, we get entangled and hooked..and we learn and grow. This whole self-compassion thing feels new yet oddly old to me somehow, like coming home to myself. My first therapist that I've spoken of here was really all about self-compassion. He used to say to me: Is this how you would treat your dear friend? What would you say to her if she was going through this? And that sort of thing...and...and...he also reminded me time and again of how human (and perfect, really) it is to be imperfect, to make mistakes. To have suffering. Again

and again, with his soft, deep voice as we sat there face to face. I really got it. And then as I moved along in life, I moved away from that...I think it is important to develop a practice of some sort to keep us grounded, and that's what I never did. That's where I need to grow now. Anyway, thanks everyone for sharing and I truly hope we can continue the conversation as we all move along.I can't think of anything more central or rather fundamental than this practice. In a very real way, this work of self-compassion reminds me of 's signature quote: "Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"peace and well wishes,terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:32 AM Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Yes, you will see a lot of emotional attachment to words and thoughts in the posts here. That is how we learn - by opening up and sharing our vulnerabilities and imperfections so we can learn from observing and connecting with each other. I see myself getting hooked frequently; thus, I have yet another opportunity to learn how to unhook, detach, defuse. Over and over. I am making progress, and that is good enough for me - today, right now, in this moment. I'm doubt I will ever achieve perfection, but I no longer see myself as unworthy of compassion and love like I used to before I practiced ACT.Welcome!HelenaFrom:

"bushcamp01" To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:04:39 AMSubject: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

Hi, I am new to this group. I've been lurking for a while.

My thoughts on this - firstly, I see lots of "thoughts" - those things that ACT teaches us not to attach to. ACT is based on Relational Frame Theory, which essentially, if I understand it correctly (and I may have it wrong) is about how we as individuals relate to something, someone, a place, WORDS etc. ie - a spider is not a scarey thing to me, but to many it is - this is based on what shaped your mindframe of spiders - be it an experience or fear transference from a parent etc. Words have the same effect - they can mean one thing to someone and have a totally different meaning to someone else. I work with techies - I call them "geeks", to me it is a term of endearment - besides, no one sneers at geeks like Bill Gates, but one of my team is highly offended - he probably got bullied as a kid at school or something like that and has not shaken that experience. So, this is why ACT teaches us that the words dont matter, they start to matter when we

hook our emotions to them and then they start to control us - that is what diffusion is about. - this is thought one in response to some rather emotional reaction to words I have seen on this post - bottom line - it does not matter unless you let it matter.

My second thought - compassion is both a noun and verb depending on how you use it. That means it can be both a value and a skill. If compassion is a value, your living it becomes a verb through acts of compassion, and then it becomes a skill - so both are correct.

My final thought/observation - if compassion is a value, is it a value for everyone (including yourself/myself) or is it a value for everyone (excluding yourself/myself) and if it is the later why? Why do you not have the right to compassion? Compassion is about love, and how can you love others if you cannot love yourself? And if you cant love yourself, why not? Are you judging yourself. Another tenant of ACT is non-judgement(that is the mindfulness part). Are you judging yourself unworthy of compassion or love?

Compassion and empathy are very closely related and I have recently discovered the work of Brene Brown on vulnerability and shame, which are closely linked to this. Find her talks on TED.com or google them - they are worth checking out.

Just my "thoughts". You can let them pass or you can hook onto them... :-)

Bronwyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This commenting of mine feels a bit heavy and oh so not compassionate and some of it is unnecessary.

>

>

>

> I think some of what pushed my buttons is my own personal experience with red wine.

>

>

>

>

> From: Theresa Linder < theresa.linder@... >

> To: " ACT_for_the_Public " < ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:47 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not sure how much direct practice work Neff has. She seems a bit detached, very "Santa Fe" if you will excuse the stereotype.

>

>

> One of weirder statements (as in "what doesn't belong here?") that pops out is the choice to include detailing of how to best mitigate the effects of alcohol alongside other self-care ideas. I can't put my finger on, but on both a process and content level, coupling this glass of red wine with an "oh so compassionate" way to unwind after a long day seems weird.

>

>

>

> Most of my concern I think has to do with the emphasis on the whole story line about need to relax as a goal. I'm not sure how that jives with a self-compassionate embrace.

>

>

> Part of it has to do with the suggestion itself.

>

>

> Confusing messages, speaking out of both ends it seems.

>

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

> From: Jespersen < jespersen.thomas@... >

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 2:21 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm not Terry but the book is simply called "Self Compassion". I recommend it as well.

>

>

> Check the books website:

>

>

> http://www.self-compassion.org/

>

>

> <blockquote>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Terry

>

>

> What's the title of this book?

> --------------------------------

>

>

> To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:32 PM

> Subject: Self-Compassion: Warm embrace/practice value vs. cure-all technique

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm reading Neff's book on self-compassion and really like it so far. Her exercises are very helpful and the practice feels like a warm loving hug and a

>

> slow long deep breath. Really see it as a meta-value and a strong form of acceptance. Just shining a more specific light on this piece. It really resonates.

>

> The posture of self-compassion is pivotal for me as I'm in the high shame and self-critical category.

>

>

> Anyone else using this stuff?

>

>

> BTW, I do see a trap...i do see some tendency in readings on compassion (and in my own mind) to turn this all into yet another cure-all, self-help move/technique, but so far that is not a problem.

>

>

> terry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> </blockquote>

>

[Guest guest]

An article I saw today on Wired:http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/12/tania-singer-compassion-burnout " Training people to be compassionate rather than empathic might

help to solve problems such as depression, burnout and narcissism,

according to

Tania Singer at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive

and Brain Sciences. " " For Singer, empathy is " a precursor to compassion, but too much

of it can lead to antisocial behaviour " . For example, healthcare

workers or caregivers who are frequently faced with trauma victims

can become intensely distressed themselves, feel overwhelmed and

burn out. Brain scans have shown that similar areas of the brain

are activated both in the person who suffers and the one who feels

empathy. So empathic suffering is a true experience of

suffering.

In order to avoid this, we need to transform empathy into

compassion. Compassion is a feeling of pity or a warm, caring

emotion that does not involve feeling, say, sadness if the other

person is sad. "