Re: Feelings v. Thoughts

[Guest guest]

Ive noticed that you can have a thought Come and go so quickly that you dont notice THEM in that MOMENT and your just Left with The FEELING. And youre none the Wiser ,as they say.

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From:

spikesdadjd ;

To:

<ACT_for_the_Public >;

Subject:

Feelings v. Thoughts

Sent:

Tue, Jul 24, 2012 12:11:05 PM

Hey all,

I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage I took into the relationship.

I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc ur inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else relate to that?

Kind regards,

JD

[Guest guest]

hi JD

My psychologist is an ACT practitioner and he taught me something which really

helped me understand exactly what you are experiencing as I experienced the same

thing.

We cant control our feelings/emotions - they are generated by the most primitive

part of our brain and seem completely irrational and are driven by instinct -

the whole adrenalin surge we have when we get a fright is a good example - that

feeling is actually fear, but we have forgotten what it really feels like

because our society is no longer living in a " fight or flight " mode. I

personally believe, from my own journey that most, if not all negative

emotions/feelings boil down to fear. Okay, so that is the " science " part.

So, what that means is that you can and will experience emotions before you have

registered (with your more developed part of the brain) what the cause is. This

is where it gets complicated, because thoughts get in the way. We want to

rationalise the emotion/feeling. We " need " to find a way to explain a feeling

that " just is " , so we attach thoughts and reasons to it (eg guilt), the problem

is that often in the process of doing that we start fueling the emotion, making

it more intense and giving it more meaning that it needs, and that is how we get

hooked. That is where the shame, guilt, anger, sorrow etc comes in. This is

not to say any of this is bad, it just is how it works. What ACT does is

teaches you how to not let it drag you down.

So part of the process is acknowledging the emotion/feeling and just sitting

with it, use the techniques described in the Happiness Trap - just sit with the

emotion and allow it to come and go, the less you resist it the sooner it

passes, and it does. I use the visualisation technique - I describe the

emotion, where it is on my body, what it looks like - hard or soft, colour,

shape, texture, how it feels etc and watch it and slowly it starts to vapourise

(this also works well for physical pain control). When you are doing this you

are being 100% mindful and you are focusing on what " is " and not what might be

or could be etc and in the process you will find yourself unhooking from the

guilt. Sitting with it is the hardest part initially and also the greatest

obstacles to really understanding and embracing ACT - because it feels so sh*t,

why would you want go there - it seems counter-intuitive!? But the reality is

that the more you resist it the longer it sticks around and the more pain it

causes in the long run. I cant count the number of times I have sat in the

therapists chair and wanted to just curl up and cry and block the world out, but

he would make me look at it, describe it, face it - and by " it " I mean the

emotion - not the thoughts. It works, you just have to persevere.

It takes time to learn the technique, I have been working with ACT with the

support of a psychologist for just under a year now, and it has revolutionised

my life. It is a phenomenal tool and I wish everyone understood it.

Another trick I learnt from therapy - read a book, watch a movie do something

that distracts your mind from whatever is occupying it, even when the idea of

going and sitting in a cinema feels like the hardest thing in the world to do,

just do it - dont bother with make-up or looking good - see it as " treatment "

not a date. This is esp valuable while you try to get your head around being

mindful/present. It gives your mind some respite from all the negative stuff we

throw at it and for the duration, you are not adding any fuel and it is amazing

what just an hour to two's respite from the " noise " can do for your mood.

When you feel so sh*t and are too much in your head, analysing all your issues

and trying to rationalise what is happening to you, you are actually fueling the

feelings. It is easier to understand what went wrong when you are objective but

when you are in the depth of it you cant be objective, so the trick is learning

to use ACT first, then you can take all the time in the world to figure out why

you needed it in the first place when you have the tools to protect yourself (if

you still feel the need to find a reason).

What makes ACT different to other forms of therapy - and trust me I have been

through them all - is that you dont need to know how you got there - it is about

how you cope and move forward today and tomorrow.

For those that are curious - I have suffered from depression all my life. So for

those of you out there that feel that it is all just too difficult, keep at it.

It really does work, and the values part is invaluable - it give you the map to

get you out of bed each day and look forward to the adventure. And watch those

thoughts - I can hear my therapist reading all these posts going " so many

thoughts, interesting thoughts, but just thoughts " .....

Bronwyn

>

> Hey all,

> I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm

reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage

I took into the relationship.

> I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to

feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't

immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc ur

inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems

that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

> Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else

relate to that?

> Kind regards,

> JD

>

[Guest guest]

Absolutely - it can take me hours (days...) to understand in words what I am feeling and why I am feeling it. 

 

Hey all,

I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage I took into the relationship.

I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc ur inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else relate to that?

Kind regards,

JD

[Guest guest]

Hi Bronwyn:Thanks for an inspiring and educational post. I used to do the feeling visualization and have gotten away from doing that. Your writing is very clear on what ACT can do. I've been down the rabbit hole lately and your thoughts remind me of some of the things I used to do that I haven't lately. Maybe that's why I've been feeling so anxious. Or maybe straight up fear is a better term.I'm always glad to hear from someone who is having success. I feel like I'm a one step forward, one step back.Bruce hi JD My psychologist is an ACT practitioner and he taught me something which really helped me understand exactly what you are experiencing as I experienced the same thing. We cant control our feelings/emotions - they are generated by the most primitive part of our brain and seem completely irrational and are driven by instinct - the whole adrenalin surge we have when we get a fright is a good example - that feeling is actually fear, but we have forgotten what it really feels like because our society is no longer living in a "fight or flight" mode. I personally believe, from my own journey that most, if not all negative emotions/feelings boil down to fear. Okay, so that is the "science" part. So, what that means is that you can and will experience emotions before you have registered (with your more developed part of the brain) what the cause is. This is where it gets complicated, because thoughts get in the way. We want to rationalise the emotion/feeling. We "need" to find a way to explain a feeling that "just is", so we attach thoughts and reasons to it (eg guilt), the problem is that often in the process of doing that we start fueling the emotion, making it more intense and giving it more meaning that it needs, and that is how we get hooked. That is where the shame, guilt, anger, sorrow etc comes in. This is not to say any of this is bad, it just is how it works. What ACT does is teaches you how to not let it drag you down. So part of the process is acknowledging the emotion/feeling and just sitting with it, use the techniques described in the Happiness Trap - just sit with the emotion and allow it to come and go, the less you resist it the sooner it passes, and it does. I use the visualisation technique - I describe the emotion, where it is on my body, what it looks like - hard or soft, colour, shape, texture, how it feels etc and watch it and slowly it starts to vapourise (this also works well for physical pain control). When you are doing this you are being 100% mindful and you are focusing on what "is" and not what might be or could be etc and in the process you will find yourself unhooking from the guilt. Sitting with it is the hardest part initially and also the greatest obstacles to really understanding and embracing ACT - because it feels so sh*t, why would you want go there - it seems counter-intuitive!? But the reality is that the more you resist it the longer it sticks around and the more pain it causes in the long run. I cant count the number of times I have sat in the therapists chair and wanted to just curl up and cry and block the world out, but he would make me look at it, describe it, face it - and by "it" I mean the emotion - not the thoughts. It works, you just have to persevere. It takes time to learn the technique, I have been working with ACT with the support of a psychologist for just under a year now, and it has revolutionised my life. It is a phenomenal tool and I wish everyone understood it. Another trick I learnt from therapy - read a book, watch a movie do something that distracts your mind from whatever is occupying it, even when the idea of going and sitting in a cinema feels like the hardest thing in the world to do, just do it - dont bother with make-up or looking good - see it as "treatment" not a date. This is esp valuable while you try to get your head around being mindful/present. It gives your mind some respite from all the negative stuff we throw at it and for the duration, you are not adding any fuel and it is amazing what just an hour to two's respite from the "noise" can do for your mood. When you feel so sh*t and are too much in your head, analysing all your issues and trying to rationalise what is happening to you, you are actually fueling the feelings. It is easier to understand what went wrong when you are objective but when you are in the depth of it you cant be objective, so the trick is learning to use ACT first, then you can take all the time in the world to figure out why you needed it in the first place when you have the tools to protect yourself (if you still feel the need to find a reason). What makes ACT different to other forms of therapy - and trust me I have been through them all - is that you dont need to know how you got there - it is about how you cope and move forward today and tomorrow. For those that are curious - I have suffered from depression all my life. So for those of you out there that feel that it is all just too difficult, keep at it. It really does work, and the values part is invaluable - it give you the map to get you out of bed each day and look forward to the adventure. And watch those thoughts - I can hear my therapist reading all these posts going "so many thoughts, interesting thoughts, but just thoughts"..... Bronwyn > > Hey all, > I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm reading "the Happiness Trap." I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage I took into the relationship. > I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, "joe, he dumped you bc ur inadequAte." however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts. > Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else relate to that? > Kind regards, > JD >

[Guest guest]

I to am new to ACT and thank you for your post and the clarity with which you write............thanks, as I have been struggling with some pain/issues and it really brought things right back to center/grounding............if that makes sense............

hi JDMy psychologist is an ACT practitioner and he taught me something which really helped me understand exactly what you are experiencing as I experienced the same thing.We cant control our feelings/emotions - they are generated by the most primitive part of our brain and seem completely irrational and are driven by instinct - the whole adrenalin surge we have when we get a fright is a good example - that feeling is actually fear, but we have forgotten what it really feels like because our society is no longer living in a "fight or flight" mode. I personally believe, from my own journey that most, if not all negative emotions/feelings boil down to fear. Okay, so that is the "science" part.So, what that means is that you can and will experience emotions before you have registered (with your more developed part of the brain) what the cause is. This is where it gets complicated, because thoughts get in the way. We want to

rationalise the emotion/feeling. We "need" to find a way to explain a feeling that "just is", so we attach thoughts and reasons to it (eg guilt), the problem is that often in the process of doing that we start fueling the emotion, making it more intense and giving it more meaning that it needs, and that is how we get hooked. That is where the shame, guilt, anger, sorrow etc comes in. This is not to say any of this is bad, it just is how it works. What ACT does is teaches you how to not let it drag you down.So part of the process is acknowledging the emotion/feeling and just sitting with it, use the techniques described in the Happiness Trap - just sit with the emotion and allow it to come and go, the less you resist it the sooner it passes, and it does. I use the visualisation technique - I describe the emotion, where it is on my body, what it looks like - hard or soft, colour, shape, texture, how it feels etc and watch it and slowly it starts

to vapourise (this also works well for physical pain control). When you are doing this you are being 100% mindful and you are focusing on what "is" and not what might be or could be etc and in the process you will find yourself unhooking from the guilt. Sitting with it is the hardest part initially and also the greatest obstacles to really understanding and embracing ACT - because it feels so sh*t, why would you want go there - it seems counter-intuitive!? But the reality is that the more you resist it the longer it sticks around and the more pain it causes in the long run. I cant count the number of times I have sat in the therapists chair and wanted to just curl up and cry and block the world out, but he would make me look at it, describe it, face it - and by "it" I mean the emotion - not the thoughts. It works, you just have to persevere.It takes time to learn the technique, I have been working with ACT with the support of a psychologist for

just under a year now, and it has revolutionised my life. It is a phenomenal tool and I wish everyone understood it.Another trick I learnt from therapy - read a book, watch a movie do something that distracts your mind from whatever is occupying it, even when the idea of going and sitting in a cinema feels like the hardest thing in the world to do, just do it - dont bother with make-up or looking good - see it as "treatment" not a date. This is esp valuable while you try to get your head around being mindful/present. It gives your mind some respite from all the negative stuff we throw at it and for the duration, you are not adding any fuel and it is amazing what just an hour to two's respite from the "noise" can do for your mood.When you feel so sh*t and are too much in your head, analysing all your issues and trying to rationalise what is happening to you, you are actually fueling the feelings. It is easier to understand what went wrong

when you are objective but when you are in the depth of it you cant be objective, so the trick is learning to use ACT first, then you can take all the time in the world to figure out why you needed it in the first place when you have the tools to protect yourself (if you still feel the need to find a reason). What makes ACT different to other forms of therapy - and trust me I have been through them all - is that you dont need to know how you got there - it is about how you cope and move forward today and tomorrow. For those that are curious - I have suffered from depression all my life. So for those of you out there that feel that it is all just too difficult, keep at it. It really does work, and the values part is invaluable - it give you the map to get you out of bed each day and look forward to the adventure. And watch those thoughts - I can hear my therapist reading all these posts going "so many thoughts, interesting thoughts, but

just thoughts".....Bronwyn>> Hey all, > I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm reading "the Happiness Trap." I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage I took into the relationship.> I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, "joe, he dumped you bc ur inadequAte." however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts. > Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more

clarification. Anyone else relate to that? > Kind regards,> JD>

[Guest guest]

:-) you are welcome

> >

> > Hey all,

> > I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm

reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage

I took into the relationship.

> > I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default

to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I

don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc

ur inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems

that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

> > Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else

relate to that?

> > Kind regards,

> > JD

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi JD

Bronwyn has written an excellent reply to you full of good advice and clearly

clarifies many aspects of ACT theory that has taken me months if not a good year

to get my head around.

I have the book your reading, but as yet I have not read it, I am currently

working my way through Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life by

and the Compasionate Mind book. In book in Chapter 4 there is an

exercise called `Watching the Mind Train' that helps you to see the three

elements. The first being, things you notice in the present, sensations,

perceptions and emotions. The second element noticing your thoughts and the

third is noticing the urges to act, ie, pull away, avoid, your efforts to change

the subject, your coping strategies. It was doing this exercise that made me

realise how I never really notice my thoughts, I just went from feeling the

sensations and emotions and straight to the coping strategies. But with doing

more and more mindfulness work, I am getting better at seeing the thoughts

associated with the sensations and emotions and as a result have found I have

not needed to avoid, pull away from them, as much as before, as I have been

learning to be more accepting of them and been able to let them go and therefore

not needed my old coping strategies as I once did. In fact when I realise I am

using an old coping strategy, I take time out to do more mindfulness work as I

realise I have skipped my thoughts.

At the time I started with ACT my relationship with my fiancé had ended, I had

moved out of my partners home and back to mum and dad's and had just been told

after over 14 years of struggling with physical pain, depression, anxiety and

stress, I had CPS and to top it all I had been left in financial ruin too...so I

was feeling pretty low to say the least and more than inadequate for many

reasons. I felt life for me was over and I was just turning 40, I felt all I

had to look forward to was the menopause, old age and death, so I may as well go

now, after all what chance did I have of ever having a life never mind being

happy in it with all my issues. Many people said to me time is a great

healer, and I am sure you will have heard that by now too, but that doesn't help

with the here and now. But I can tell you ACT is all about the here and now,

living in the moment and being mindful of yourself and life around you and that

does help. You will have to face some very strong emotions and feelings over

the coming weeks, its part of the grieving process of a relationship that has

ended, its also part of ACT, but if you can be open to your thoughts and

feelings and work with them, than against them you will be able to get through

this period and not only that you will be all the better for it too, as you now

have this excellent opportunity to truly get to know you and how your mind

communicates with you. As a result you will learn to be able to live your life

whilst walking beside any discomfort without being consumed by it.

Your mind is telling you, " You are having the thought that you are inadequate " .

Thank it for this information, but remember it is just a thought and that you do

not have to buy into it.

Your feelings will be very strong and will overpower you from time to time, but

don't be too hard on yourself when this happens, you're human after all, just

like all of us. If you can learn to sit with them, take a breath and observe

you will start to see the thoughts behind them too, it takes a wee bit of

practice, but it's worth the time and effort. It really does help.

I have no regrets that my relationship ended in fact it was the best thing to

happen, it woke me up and I started looking after myself and my needs and now I

am concentrating on how I want to be as a human being and living a life of

value.

JD I hope this is of some help to you, remember you are a valued individual, and

you do matter, never forget that.

With loving kindness

Jo

>

> Hey all,

> I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm

reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage

I took into the relationship.

> I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to

feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't

immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc ur

inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems

that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

> Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else

relate to that?

> Kind regards,

> JD

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. An ACT posting on the ACT board. Can I get an AMEN, somebody?

 

:-) you are welcome

> >

> > Hey all,

> > I'm relatively new to the discussion group and new to ACT. Currently, I'm reading " the Happiness Trap. " I'm dealing with a break up as well as the baggage I took into the relationship.

> > I wanted to see how others relate to this. It seems that I tend to default to feelings instead of thoughts. In response to the break up, for example, I don't immediately go to a message in my mind that says, " joe, he dumped you bc ur inadequAte. " however, the feeling of inadequacy is very much there. It seems that feelings are triggered for me more than thoughts.

> > Perhaps as I learn more about ACT, I'll get more clarification. Anyone else relate to that?

> > Kind regards,

> > JD

> >

>