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Thanks everyone for the input on goat's milk. :) I think I'm going to try it,

mostly for the curiosity factor.

>>>goat milk is the closest milk to human milk in composition, so yes

it is easier to digest -- it actually tastes closer to human milk

too, although most people prefer the taste of cow milk over goat.

It is also a " cleaner " milk in comparison to cow's milk.

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  • 4 months later...

We have used Goats milk for my son. It contains casein, but it is

supposed to be easier to digest than cows milk. It is a lot more

like breast milk. We gave it with enzymes and although my son did

OK behavior wise on goats milk, he broke out with eczema and had red

itchy eyes. We stopped the goats milk and he was fine. I now am

thinking that my son may have a true allergy to milk. We will try

again in a few months and see how he does then.

> Clear DayIs goat milk " safe " for children who are on a GF/CF

diet? I have heard that some children CAN tolerate the casein in

the goat milk, but not in cow's milk. Has anyone tried this with

any success? My son is on enzymes, also, so I'm thinking that MIGHT

help, too? I'm afraid to try it, and am not sure what to look for

as far as a reaction would go. Any advice appreciated!

>

> ~Diane

> Mom to Aaren, age 3, ASD

>

>

>

>

>

> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! --

http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

>

>

>

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I now make SCD goats milk yogurt after my son had been off all dairy

for about 9 months. (From fresh milk only - the other stuff doesn't

turn out as well.) His excema cleared up (90%) when we pulled all

casein and now when I run out of goats milk yogurt and have to give

him cows milk yogurt (mine) I see a skin flare up in about 1 week -

so the goats milk does seem to digest better, but I still have to be

careful about his overall intake (esp. when we have other diet

issues going on...)

AMK

BTW - we do HNI enzymes also.

> Clear DayIs goat milk " safe " for children who are on a GF/CF

diet? I have heard that some children CAN tolerate the casein in

the goat milk, but not in cow's milk. Has anyone tried this with

any success? My son is on enzymes, also, so I'm thinking that MIGHT

help, too? I'm afraid to try it, and am not sure what to look for

as far as a reaction would go. Any advice appreciated!

>

> ~Diane

> Mom to Aaren, age 3, ASD

>

>

>

>

>

> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! --

http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

>

>

>

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We seemed to be able to give our older son about 3/4cup goat milk

yoghurt in the evening after dinner with enzymes. When we gave him 1

c. in the morning with enzymes but without any other food he seemed to

experience a tummy ache. For us skin flare ups occur with gluten,

tummy aches with casein.

-deb

mom to Armor 4.5 and Archer 2.5, both ASD

> > Clear DayIs goat milk " safe " for children who are on a GF/CF

> diet? I have heard that some children CAN tolerate the casein in

> the goat milk, but not in cow's milk. Has anyone tried this with

> any success? My son is on enzymes, also, so I'm thinking that MIGHT

> help, too? I'm afraid to try it, and am not sure what to look for

> as far as a reaction would go. Any advice appreciated!

> >

> > ~Diane

> > Mom to Aaren, age 3, ASD

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! --

> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

> >

> >

> >

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Hi AMK -

We still haven't started the goat yogurt yet... Question... why do

you have to be careful about his overall intake? What happens?

Stools? Behaviour? Foggieness?

> > so the goats milk does seem to digest better, but I still have

to be

> > careful about his overall intake (esp. when we have other diet

> > issues going on...)

> > AMK

> > BTW - we do HNI enzymes also.

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>>>Is goat milk " safe " for children who are on a GF/CF diet? I have

heard that some children CAN tolerate the casein in the goat milk,

but not in cow's milk.

It depends on the person...and sort of up to you. Some kids do great

on goat or sheeps dairy while not on cow dairy (without enzymes). And

some do well on raw dairy of any type. And some do okay on just one

type but not another. Here is the page from pecanbread on goat versus

cow dairy:

http://www.pecanbread.com/goatyogurt.html

>>>My son is on enzymes, also, so I'm thinking that MIGHT help, too?

Just the Peptizyde enzymes for dairy off GFCF.

>>>>I'm afraid to try it, and am not sure what to look for as far as

a reaction would go. Any advice appreciated!

Reactions vary by kid. My older son would become irritable, migraines

and head-banging within 3 hours. Younger son just flopped around the

house and got sullen. We didn't do goat dairy though...we had already

been on Peptizyde and full dairy already.

.

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Yup - when I get too much overall he starts getting grumpy

(nonverbal to that extent, so I'm not sure exactly where the

discomfort is...) and then his skin flares up. We really don't have

stool problems with dairy... I never get to really bad behaviors

before the skin is raw behind his knees and elbows - I guess a

little more " aggressive " would be the best way to describe it for us.

Best bet is to only change one thing at a time - if no negative

change try for a while and then do a test by stopping for about a

week to see if there is a basic change in his baseline.

Good luck!

BTW - I tried Culturelle for about 2 weeks first to see if he would

react since that has a dairy connection (grown on dairy?). I'm not

sure if that was a meaningful test but it gave me the confidence to

move ahead.

AMK

>

> Hi AMK -

> We still haven't started the goat yogurt yet... Question... why do

> you have to be careful about his overall intake? What happens?

> Stools? Behaviour? Foggieness?

>

> > > so the goats milk does seem to digest better, but I still have

> to be

> > > careful about his overall intake (esp. when we have other diet

> > > issues going on...)

> > > AMK

> > > BTW - we do HNI enzymes also.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

Of course, I don't want to get into an argument about this, but

Shaw, PhD, the head of Great Plains Lab said specifically,

earlier this month at a 16 hour seminar I attended, the opposite

about goat's milk: I.E., that goats' milk is usually not a well-

tolerated substitute for cow's milk, (or perhaps I should say breast

milk), and that (since both goats and cows are related and have

similar if not identical casein), the opiate peptides were produced

from both. Since he has access to a lot of results from urinary

peptide tests, that should be relevant data, not just an opinion.

And I have been dealing with this issue for about 40 years (food

allergies), and the problem is that casein is usually very well

conserved across species lines, while the lactalbumins and the

lactoglobulin proteins are different in different animals. People can

have allergies/sensitivities to either or to both, although it is the

casein, which is implicated in the opiate peptide hypothesis. He did

(Shaw, that is), say that human breast milk casein did not have quite

the same opiate peptide when broken down, however, because of a

difference in one or two amino acids.

Sorry, I have no problem whatsoever disagreeing with Dr. Rimland if I

believe him to be wrong, in any particular case. And I'm sure he

would feel the same about me!

However, it may very well be that the bacteria in the yogurt

fermentation process do indeed break down the casein better, and that

there is less quantitative casein to start with in the goat's than in

the cow's milk (as indeed there also is in human breast milk). So for

some children this may be an answer, but I personally would not call

it a casein-free diet. His case with the reindeer milk is one case;

my son's with the goat milk is one case; this seems to me to be about

an equal amount of evidence...And no, of course you aren't defying

Dr. Rimland, you have every right, as we all do, to feed your child

anything you think is appropriate, within reason.

Peace,

Kathy E., PhD

On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:22 AM, <saxa44@...>

<saxa44@...> wrote:

>

> Goat Milk

>

> understanding the difference in caseins and why cow casein is

> usually the problem in digesting the proteins and info on goat milk

> http://www.geocities.com/recoverymaze/goatyogurt_autism.html

> http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol06/issue3/goatmilk.htm

>

> It is absolutely essential that you feed your body a steady stream

> of probiotics. To quote an article, " If you're a wheat farmer and

> you want to prevent weeds from growing, plant the wheat

> thick! " (i.e. the gut needs to be overcrowded with the good gut

> bugs,to prevent the harmful pathogens from taking over. ).

> Fortunately most of the autistic children on our lists can tolerate

> goat yogurt,even the children who get very sick with cow milk.Why

> is that so? The casein in goat milk is different from the casein in

> cow milk.Also the process of making of making the 24 hour SCD

> yogurt changes the molecular structure of the casein and renders it

> harmless.

>

> Are we defying Bernard Rimland the man who created DAN and endorses

> GFCF if we feed our kids goat milk yogurt?

>

> I just reread " Special Diets for Special Kids " ,the official book

> about GFCF. " Special Diets for Special Kids " was written by

> and has a foreword by Bernard Rimland .

>

> In the foreword Rimland specifically mentions cow milk [rather than

> other types of dairy] as causing autism.In that book he cites the

> two examples that convinced him that cow milk was detrimental for

> ASD. The first example is about an American family who moved to a

> remote part of Northern Canada where only reindeer milk was

> available;their autistic daughter greatly improved .When they went

> back to the USA,the daughter's severe autism returned.To quote

> Rimland: " The answer :the autistic girl could tolerate reindeer

> milk but not COW's milk! "

>

> This example shows that Rimland believes that reindeer milk might

> be OK for some of our kids. The casein in reindeer milk is

> different than the casein in cow milk.The casein in goat milk is

> also different from the casein in cow milk,it is more easily

> digested by humans(See the other information just posted in this

> website).

>

> At the time that GFCF was formulated as a treatment for Autism

> there was no research on the effects of non-cow dairy products on

> autism . Since so few kids in the US drink reindeer or goat milk no

> one payed attention to that matter.

>

> By eating goat milk yogurt we are not contradicting Rimland,since

> Rimland writes that other animals' milk is OK for some kids with

> autism.

>

> ______________________________________________________________________

> ___

>

>

>

>

>

> Goat and cow casein are different

>

> Human and goat milk do not have the opioid protein, but cow's milk

> does

>

>

>

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Guest guest

We, too, have tried goat milk/yogurt. The response was similar to

cow's milk - seizures. It's not in our current diet.

>

> >

> > Goat Milk

> >

> > understanding the difference in caseins and why cow casein is

> > usually the problem in digesting the proteins and info on goat

milk

> > http://www.geocities.com/recoverymaze/goatyogurt_autism.html

> > http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol06/issue3/goatmilk.htm

> >

> > It is absolutely essential that you feed your body a steady

stream

> > of probiotics. To quote an article, " If you're a wheat farmer

and

> > you want to prevent weeds from growing, plant the wheat

> > thick! " (i.e. the gut needs to be overcrowded with the good gut

> > bugs,to prevent the harmful pathogens from taking over. ).

> > Fortunately most of the autistic children on our lists can

tolerate

> > goat yogurt,even the children who get very sick with cow

milk.Why

> > is that so? The casein in goat milk is different from the casein

in

> > cow milk.Also the process of making of making the 24 hour SCD

> > yogurt changes the molecular structure of the casein and renders

it

> > harmless.

> >

> > Are we defying Bernard Rimland the man who created DAN and

endorses

> > GFCF if we feed our kids goat milk yogurt?

> >

> > I just reread " Special Diets for Special Kids " ,the official

book

> > about GFCF. " Special Diets for Special Kids " was written by

> > and has a foreword by Bernard Rimland .

> >

> > In the foreword Rimland specifically mentions cow milk [rather

than

> > other types of dairy] as causing autism.In that book he cites

the

> > two examples that convinced him that cow milk was detrimental

for

> > ASD. The first example is about an American family who moved to

a

> > remote part of Northern Canada where only reindeer milk was

> > available;their autistic daughter greatly improved .When they

went

> > back to the USA,the daughter's severe autism returned.To quote

> > Rimland: " The answer :the autistic girl could tolerate reindeer

> > milk but not COW's milk! "

> >

> > This example shows that Rimland believes that reindeer milk

might

> > be OK for some of our kids. The casein in reindeer milk is

> > different than the casein in cow milk.The casein in goat milk

is

> > also different from the casein in cow milk,it is more easily

> > digested by humans(See the other information just posted in

this

> > website).

> >

> > At the time that GFCF was formulated as a treatment for Autism

> > there was no research on the effects of non-cow dairy products

on

> > autism . Since so few kids in the US drink reindeer or goat milk

no

> > one payed attention to that matter.

> >

> > By eating goat milk yogurt we are not contradicting

Rimland,since

> > Rimland writes that other animals' milk is OK for some kids

with

> > autism.

> >

> >

_____________________________________________________________________

_

> > ___

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Goat and cow casein are different

> >

> > Human and goat milk do not have the opioid protein, but cow's

milk

> > does

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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  • 11 months later...
Guest guest

When our kids turned up sensitive to milk at a year old, someone kept

recommending goat's milk instead of cow's milk. But then I read that

goat's milk has casein. We give the kids rice milk and GF/CF calcium

supplements with vitamin D as soon as they were weaned. As far as I

know, the casein is a bit more broken down in yogurt and breastmilk

has much more whey than casein.

As far as replacing the calcium, organic dandelion greens (we get them

from the health food store) have the highest levels of calcium of just

about any food I've ever seen. Kale is pretty high, too. I blend and

add these to soups if the kids aren't feeling like " greenies " and make

sure they get them every day. Other than that, I'm new to this and

seeking feedback on diet myself.

Good luck.

>

> If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

>

> Mandy

>

>

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Guest guest

Technically, no. All animal milk is a no-no for a true CF diet.

However, some can tolerate goat's milk products. It is up to you if

you wish to experiment.

Pam

>

> If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

>

> Mandy

>

>

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Guest guest

We tried the goat milk (my son is GFCF and casein reactive) and saw the same

response that he has to cow's milk - spaciness, inability to " hear " us.

It is my understanding that goat milk has LESS casein than cow's milk but,

for us, LESS is TOO MUCH.

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Guest guest

Many kids who cannot tolerate cow's milk can tolerate goat's milk although it's

important to supplement folic acid with goat's milk as it is low in folic acid.

There are many benefits to milk for kid's who can tolerate it; milk is next to

eggs in the highest quality of protein, there is lactoferrin in milk as well as

methionine which is an important methylating amino acid. Go to www.rawmilk.com

to read of the many benefits of milk for those kids who can drink it.

Ours did worse with the withdrawal of milk. I get many emails from Moms whose

child got their first yeast infections with the withdrawal of milk due to

withdrawing the lactoferrin.

[ ] Re: goat milk

Technically, no. All animal milk is a no-no for a true CF diet.

However, some can tolerate goat's milk products. It is up to you if

you wish to experiment.

Pam

>

> If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

>

> Mandy

>

>

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Guest guest

Where can you find goat's milk - at a regular grocery store?

[ ] Re: goat milk

Technically, no. All animal milk is a no-no for a true CF diet.

However, some can tolerate goat's milk products. It is up to you if

you wish to experiment.

Pam

>

> If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

>

> Mandy

>

>

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Guest guest

It's in our grocery store--not sure about others but we're pretty rural and get

everything later than other people.

[ ] Re: goat milk

Technically, no. All animal milk is a no-no for a true CF diet.

However, some can tolerate goat's milk products. It is up to you if

you wish to experiment.

Pam

>

> If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

>

> Mandy

>

>

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Guest guest

We have it in our co-op, and even in our regular grocery store

(Kroger), but it is not raw.

Anne

> >

> > If a child is casien free...is goat milk / cheese allowed?

> >

> > Mandy

> >

> >

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  • 7 months later...

>

> Although milk is not allowed on the diet, I just want to know which

milk is better, unpasteurised goat's milk or unpasturised cow's milk?

==>Hi . I do not know which is better.

Bee

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I would say that there is a lot I read that goat's milk has a lot more

probiotics, but I would not let this one fact lead you down the wrong road by

drinking it and taking on sugar!

Bee <beeisbuzzing2003@...> wrote:

>

> Although milk is not allowed on the diet, I just want to know which

milk is better, unpasteurised goat's milk or unpasturised cow's milk?

==>Hi . I do not know which is better.

Bee

---------------------------------

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now.

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  • 5 months later...
Guest guest

If milk has been sterilized and then NOT innoculated, pretty much

*anything* could be growing in there. If it was mine I'd maybe boil it

again and feed it to the chickens. I feel more confident with ferments

that have acid or salt in them: then the lactobacilli take over. Milk

is pretty inert though and able to grow a wide range of bacteria.

Listeria and salmonella and a few other baddies are the ones to watch

out for.

Most of the " baddies " though, are easily killed by reboiling. A few,

like staph, create toxins that are not killed with heat. I don't know

enough about those though, which is why I end up feeding stuff to the

chickens. They seem immune to anything, or else they know what not to

eat. I used to put the " spoiled " food in the compost pile, rather than

feeding it to the chooks, but they learned to fly into the compost

pile and ate it anyway.

Raw milk usually comes with it's own innoculant, as you've probably

researched, so if it comes from a healthy animal, esp. if it is YOUR

healthy animal, it's likely to ferment ok. However, I was listening to

a talk by a lady who tested animals in Africa for TB and then tested

the owners of said animals: they owners did get TB from their animals.

This probably isn't an issue in the US if the animals are tested.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Azalyne SkyeOlson <askye@...> wrote:

> Hi folks,

> I've been a member for awhile, but have little time to post, busy

> homeschooling 3 kids and suburban homesteading. Anyhow, I regularly

> make homemade goat milk yogurt, I pasteurize it for personal reasons

> (not interested in discussing why I shouldn't do this, as I have

> researched both sides and the choice is personal) and occasionally as

> it sits for the day cooling I forget to complete the task of adding

> the culture and popping it into my dehydrator. On these days I

> discover my forgotten pot of milk in the morning and find that the

> milk has thickened to almost a yogurt consistency, but it does not

> taste sour. Unfortunately this has happened to me before and last time

> I went ahead and added the culture to see if it would still make

> yogurt, the result was acrid/pungent rotten tasting bluck. Anyhow, I

> detest wasting food and would like to know if anyone on this list has

> some creative ways I can salvage this milk...and turn it into cultured

> goodness. Thanks so much for your time and help!! Cheers, Azalyne

>

> Rae SkyeOlson

> ~*~Natural Birth Resource Specialist/Lactation Consultant, SCD/GF/CF/

> BED Nutritional Coach, Nourishing Natural Foods Chef & Goddess of

> Foodgasmic Bliss, Wild Mushroom Identification & Herbalist~*~

> http://gaiatreeearthschool.blogspot.com/

>

> " Carefully watch your THOUGHTS, for they become your WORDS. Manage and

> watch your WORDS, for they will become your ACTIONS. Consider and

> judge your ACTIONS, for they have become your HABITS. Acknowledge and

> watch your HABITS, for they shall become your VALUES. Understand and

> embrace your VALUES, for they become YOUR DESTINY. "

> —Mahatma Gandhi

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Personally, I have seen many colleagues consuming raw goat milk

or camel milk in my country. They seem to be doing fine even though

I must say this is habitual and has been passed along several generations.

Recently I read some report on community immunity to microorganisms

present in the locality you have lived for a long time.

This actually solved a puzzle. Because if you

consume a foodstuff or raw milk in this areas you definitely go

down with an infectious disease. But some diseases like those transmitted from

animals to the humans eg TB, Brucellosis, Q-fever etc don't discriminate

between visitors or permanent residents.

About your overstayed goat sour milk. There is something called microbial

succession.

Just like in a rock desert were no trees can grow, may be some grass which are

tolerant

will start to grow, then some hardy shrubs follow until finally some trees can

grow.

Same happens to sour milk. Firstly, bacteria that make milk to sour, the

souring kills other bacterias which cant survive the acidity. Since the milk

can't remain good (sour) forever, it has a shelf life,

yeasts and molds can survive the acidity which with time makes it favourable for

other spoilage organisms which survive little sourness (some yeast are dangerous

or disease causing). Apart from from the microbiological changes (benefial

bacteria die) in the milk, the nutrient quality of the milk also changes.

Remember, everything has its lifespan.

----- Original Message ----

From:

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Guest guest

I think a LOT of what is happening these days is that

there is just more " mix " of microbes. Our immune systems

are designed to cope with one area, one mix of animals.

If you keep your own chickens, your own cow, you will

develop some immunity to whatever those animals

have.

But when you add in jet travel and migratory birds

and birds raised with pigs (the source of most flu

these days) then your immune system just can't cope.

Esp. if, like most humans today, your immune system is

compromised with one of:

-- deficiency: iodine, Vit D

-- lack of calories, or too many

-- drugs: whatever is current

-- lack of clay?

-- lack of good microbes?

-- food intolerance (esp. gluten/casein, which seems to wreck

havoc with the immune system)

There needs to be a lot more research. I can say though,

that I raise animals, and they eat all kinds of stuff

without getting ill. Since we've cleaned up our diet,

we seem to not have problems either with categories

of food I would not have even tried before.

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 5:21 AM, dasel mulwa <daselw@...> wrote:

> Personally, I have seen many colleagues consuming raw goat milk

> or camel milk in my country. They seem to be doing fine even though

> I must say this is habitual and has been passed along several generations.

>

> Recently I read some report on community immunity to microorganisms

> present in the locality you have lived for a long time.

> This actually solved a puzzle. Because if you

> consume a foodstuff or raw milk in this areas you definitely go

> down with an infectious disease. But some diseases like those transmitted

from

> animals to the humans eg TB, Brucellosis, Q-fever etc don't discriminate

> between visitors or permanent residents.

>

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  • 5 months later...

Was the goat milk raw? For what it is worth, I think that milk should

be one of the very last things you try adding back in, since it can be

one of the worst food problems. Even then, only raw. I'm happy to hear

your daughter is tolerating more now though. That is a great sign of

progress. Hurray for you and her!

P.

Arias wrote:

>

> She is tolerating so many more foods, so I gave goat milk a try.

> Forget it!!! She still can't do it. She turned into such a pain.

> Started teasing everyone, and eating like a little pig.

>

>

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Yea, I feel like an idiot for even trying it.

Not sure how to help her tonight. She is soooo irritable. Just like

when she was a baby. She was so antsy on my breast milk and any other

milk I tried. We tried 12 different formulas. Is it the protein in

the milk that makes her crazy? Somewhere down the road, perhaps I

should give enzymes another try.

On Nov 2, 2008, at 9:02 PM, P. wrote:

> Was the goat milk raw? For what it is worth, I think that milk should

> be one of the very last things you try adding back in, since it can be

> one of the worst food problems. Even then, only raw. I'm happy to hear

> your daughter is tolerating more now though. That is a great sign of

> progress. Hurray for you and her!

> P.

>

> Arias wrote:

> >

> > She is tolerating so many more foods, so I gave goat milk a try.

> > Forget it!!! She still can't do it. She turned into such a pain.

> > Started teasing everyone, and eating like a little pig.

> >

> >

>

>

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Yes, I really feel like there is hope now. I do see progress. I am

able to pin point things now. Before she was just crazy all the time

and reacting to everything. I couldn't do anything to control her. It

as so bad. She was running out the door... throwing everything in

sight... and attacking me with anything she could find. I am so lucky

to have found you guys. Really! There are some brilliant people on

this board.

On Nov 2, 2008, at 9:02 PM, P. wrote:

> Was the goat milk raw? For what it is worth, I think that milk should

> be one of the very last things you try adding back in, since it can be

> one of the worst food problems. Even then, only raw. I'm happy to hear

> your daughter is tolerating more now though. That is a great sign of

> progress. Hurray for you and her!

> P.

>

> Arias wrote:

> >

> > She is tolerating so many more foods, so I gave goat milk a try.

> > Forget it!!! She still can't do it. She turned into such a pain.

> > Started teasing everyone, and eating like a little pig.

> >

> >

>

>

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  • 4 weeks later...

>

> Hi, my name is and this is a great group. I have had Candida

> for some time and I read a lot of past messages about not eathing

milk

> products, but I am wondering about all the books I read on candida

that

> recomend drinking goat milk?

Hi . Other candida programs do not understand how the

lactose/sugar in all dairy products feeds candida, including Goat's

Milk. Goat's butter is great however. Butter is okay since " the

higher the butterfat content, the lower the lactose. "

Bee

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