please help

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know a good Dr. in Rochester, NY. My endo is semi-retired and i=

t takes

about 6 months to get an appointment. You can email me at...

hopefully1000@...

--------

> wondering2one <hopefully1000@h...> wrote:

> I hope someone can help and offer some insights. I am a 34 yr old

> male who has been

> suffering from lack of sex drive (and lack of quality erections)

> since my mid-20's. I

> initially went to my PCP who thought it was in my head, but agreed to

> have me tested

> for Testosterone. I don't have the results handy, but my Total T

> came back in the

> normal range and that was that. He did give me some samples of

> Viagra, but I didn't

> notice anything. (I know that does nothing for drive, but tried

> anyway)

>

> Some time later, I pushed him for more testing and he referred me to

> a Urologist who

> immediately said it was all in my head. He ordered some more tests

> and found a

> slightly elevated Prolactin level. Upon hearing this, my PCP wanted

> me to see an

> Endocrinologist. But, he felt the endo's first response would be

> to have an MRI done.

> So, that is what my PCP ordered right away.

>

> The MRI revealed a very tiny benign tumor. I believe it is called a

> micro-adenoma. So,

> with this news I was off to see the endo. He ordered some testing and

> the results

> were…

>

> LH 3.2 MIU/ML (1.7 – 8.6 reference range)

> FSH 3.1 MIU/ML (1.5 – 12.4 reference range)

> Prolactin 13.1 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Free T 9.69 (5.00 – 21.00 NG/ML reference range) done at

> Labcorp of America - NJ

> Free T% 3.00 (1.00 – 2.70% reference range)

> Total T 323 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> At my next visit, he said he would consider supplementation, but

> first wanted me to

> take some time off of Propecia and then retest. Fair enough, although

> my symptoms

> started about 18 months prior to me starting on Propecia. But again,

> seemed

> prudent. My second set of tests were…

>

> LH 4.4 MIU/ML (1.7 – 8.6 reference range)

> FSH 3.5 MIU/ML (1.5 – 12.4 reference range)

> Prolactin 12.5 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Total T 593 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> Upon seeing the results, he said " no go " but would be willing to

> retest in 6 months. At

> this point, I was back on Propecia. Did that and the results were…

>

> Prolactin 16.0 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Free T 15.61 (5.00 – 21.00 NG/ML reference range) done at

> Labcorp of America - NJ

> Free T% 2.66 (1.00 – 2.70% reference range)

> Total T 587 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> I don't know why some things were tested and some weren't on

> other occasions.

>

> I have read a lot on this site about Estradiol. Should I have this

> tested? Any other tests

> I should have done.

>

> I can not accept an " it's in your head " diagnosis. I haven't

> woken w/ an erection in 8

> yrs. And can't believe that's in my head.

>

> Can anyone offer any insights? Very Frustrating.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Does anyone know a good Dr. in Rochester, NY. My endo is semi-

retired and i=

> t takes

> about 6 months to get an appointment. You can email me at...

>

> hopefully1000@h...

------------------------

will cut off all email addresses that are not

you want to put a " space " after the " @ " and then continue

norton

[Guest guest]

Thanks, my email is hopefully1000@ hotmail.com

> > Does anyone know a good Dr. in Rochester, NY. My endo is semi-

> retired and i=

> > t takes

> > about 6 months to get an appointment. You can email me at...

> >

> > hopefully1000@h...

> ------------------------

> will cut off all email addresses that are not

> you want to put a " space " after the " @ " and then continue

> norton

[Guest guest]

Yes go to this link and at the top right hit find a Dr. then put in your state.

http://www.tuneupyourt.com/

Phil

wondering2one <hopefully1000@...> wrote:

Does anyone know a good Dr. in Rochester, NY. My endo is semi-retired and i=

t takes

about 6 months to get an appointment. You can email me at...

hopefully1000@...

--------

> wondering2one <hopefully1000@h...> wrote:

> I hope someone can help and offer some insights. I am a 34 yr old

> male who has been

> suffering from lack of sex drive (and lack of quality erections)

> since my mid-20's. I

> initially went to my PCP who thought it was in my head, but agreed to

> have me tested

> for Testosterone. I don't have the results handy, but my Total T

> came back in the

> normal range and that was that. He did give me some samples of

> Viagra, but I didn't

> notice anything. (I know that does nothing for drive, but tried

> anyway)

>

> Some time later, I pushed him for more testing and he referred me to

> a Urologist who

> immediately said it was all in my head. He ordered some more tests

> and found a

> slightly elevated Prolactin level. Upon hearing this, my PCP wanted

> me to see an

> Endocrinologist. But, he felt the endo's first response would be

> to have an MRI done.

> So, that is what my PCP ordered right away.

>

> The MRI revealed a very tiny benign tumor. I believe it is called a

> micro-adenoma. So,

> with this news I was off to see the endo. He ordered some testing and

> the results

> were…

>

> LH 3.2 MIU/ML (1.7 – 8.6 reference range)

> FSH 3.1 MIU/ML (1.5 – 12.4 reference range)

> Prolactin 13.1 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Free T 9.69 (5.00 – 21.00 NG/ML reference range) done at

> Labcorp of America - NJ

> Free T% 3.00 (1.00 – 2.70% reference range)

> Total T 323 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> At my next visit, he said he would consider supplementation, but

> first wanted me to

> take some time off of Propecia and then retest. Fair enough, although

> my symptoms

> started about 18 months prior to me starting on Propecia. But again,

> seemed

> prudent. My second set of tests were…

>

> LH 4.4 MIU/ML (1.7 – 8.6 reference range)

> FSH 3.5 MIU/ML (1.5 – 12.4 reference range)

> Prolactin 12.5 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Total T 593 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> Upon seeing the results, he said " no go " but would be willing to

> retest in 6 months. At

> this point, I was back on Propecia. Did that and the results were…

>

> Prolactin 16.0 (4.1 – 18.4 NG/ML reference range)

> Free T 15.61 (5.00 – 21.00 NG/ML reference range) done at

> Labcorp of America - NJ

> Free T% 2.66 (1.00 – 2.70% reference range)

> Total T 587 (241 - 827 reference range)

>

> I don't know why some things were tested and some weren't on

> other occasions.

>

> I have read a lot on this site about Estradiol. Should I have this

> tested? Any other tests

> I should have done.

>

> I can not accept an " it's in your head " diagnosis. I haven't

> woken w/ an erection in 8

> yrs. And can't believe that's in my head.

>

> Can anyone offer any insights? Very Frustrating.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I think you need to give us more info like the brain surgery what was it for.

What were you test result before you started AdroGel. If you have Secondary

Hypogonadism you should be on Hcg instead of AndroGel. Using Hcg makes you

testis make there own testosterone and you can still have kids. But if you have

Primary Hyposonadism this means your testis can't make the testosterone. And in

most cases you would not be able to make kids anyway. And being on AndroGel can

only make you healthy. If your testis can make there own T and you go on

AdroGel this can shout down your testis from making T. So this is what you need

to know. You could take some Hcg and see if it drives up your T levels big time

and if doing this did you could turn to doing Hcg and stop the androGel.

Someone posted doing this and you could go back 4 or 5 months and read the posts

to see if you can find it. The bottom line is some men that were on TRT and

shout down there Testis were able to jump start them

again using Hcg. But they have to have been Secondary to start with.

Phil

hobobla <hobobla@...> wrote:

Please help I am having a delima here as I am planing to be a father

with in the next six month I use androgel HRT this happen after I had

a succeful brain surgery in 1990 I started HRT in early 2000 up to

that point I guess was okay now I found out that androgel is harmful

if u want be a father I just got a new endio Doc first he wanted to

do semen analysis and then Don't know he said we will cross the

bridge when we get there but andro is going to be out he said so what

can you give an advice please Thankyou.. Jack

[Guest guest]

I would imagine a good place to start would be with a doctor that

specializes in male infertility issues. I saw a urologist for a

second opinion on that. He said he had been able to " restart " men's

fertilty after being on TRT for several years, using a combination of

HCG and another drug. I think there are reproductive endos that would

probably be good for this area too.

But like Phil said it would most likely only work if you are secondary

(problem in the hypothalamus or pituitary). If you are primary

(problem in the testicles) I would imagine it would be more difficult.

But a male infertility specilist would be the best place to start. I

called my local hospital's physician referall line and asked for

doctors that specialized in male infertility issues.

Mark

[Guest guest]

well Thanks guys I am going for semen analysis friday and will keep

you posted Thanks guys right now I am working with an endio doc I

do't know if he is a specialis on fertility But will find out when I

see him in two weeks .

[Guest guest]

on 11/16/04 6:40 PM, ummezahid@... at ummezahid@... wrote:

>

> hello,

> i pray that that everyone is well and in good spirits.

> my dear son attends a school for children with autism some moderate to

> severe. his school is having a fund raiser to try to earn enough mone to buy

> new

> software for the computer lab that so many autisic children greatly need.

> we are selling coupons that can be used at anytime for a free box of krispy

> creme donuts. the cost of the coupon is 6.00 but you can give these away as

> holiday gifts or use them at anytime.

> please let me know if anyone is willing to buy any.

> you can mail me a check payable to the school i can send you the address or

> you can give me the money. i need the money no later then nov. 28th . and the

> very next week i can mail out or drop off the coupons to you .

> please help

> thank you joey

>

do you have a paypal account?

[Guest guest]

hi

sorry it is only for one dozen that is the price for a regular dozen. we take

the orders and go to the store to buy the coupons at a reduced rate so the

school gets a percentage and then we give them to the buyers. just like selling

joe corbeys pizzas.

i do know what you mean about my address my email is ummezahid@... and

if you would like i can give you my mailing address personally.

i can also send you the school phone number personally if you woudl like to

call and verify there is a fund raiser. and all checks and money orders are

made out to them not me.

thank you for asking i hope this helps

joey

The best thing you can spend on your children is time.

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/

Think Autism.

Think Cure.

http://www.mercola.com/

[Guest guest]

Hello,

Is this the coupon where you buy one dozen of donuts and get one free

for each purchase? If so, I think I've used these before. It only

takes purchasing a dozen donuts twice to totally recoup your initial

investment. If not, can you explain a little more? Would that be $6

for a coupon toward for 1 dozen donuts? Also, I don't receive

emails and cannot see your address.

Take care,

E.

, ummezahid@a... wrote:

> hello,

> i pray that that everyone is well and in good spirits.

> my dear son attends a school for children with autism some moderate

to

> severe. his school is having a fund raiser to try to earn enough

mone to buy new

> software for the computer lab that so many autisic children greatly

need.

> we are selling coupons that can be used at anytime for a free box

of krispy

> creme donuts. the cost of the coupon is 6.00 but you can give these

away as

> holiday gifts or use them at anytime.

> please let me know if anyone is willing to buy any.

> you can mail me a check payable to the school i can send you the

address or

> you can give me the money. i need the money no later then nov.

28th . and the

> very next week i can mail out or drop off the coupons to you .

> please help

> thank you joey

>

> The best thing you can spend on your children is time.

> http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/

> Think Autism.

> Think Cure.

> http://www.mercola.com/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Kim, welcome to the group!!!!!

>

>

> HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

> RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

> PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

> IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE

DONE

> THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

> JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

> KIM

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

I am Tracie, 38, just diagnosed with RA about four months ago now.

Yes, my hands are missed dearly. Have you asked your doctor for a

mild pain medication? I use Darvocet occasionally and it helps a

lot to at least take the edge of so I am not in tears all the time.

I am having difficulty writing and even holding a book now. The

warm soaks are great and they have some herbal wraps that you can

warm in the microwave and put over the sore areas of your body which

I love. I found them in the mall at Christmas time, but I bet you

can find them on the internet. They actually have herbs inside that

smell really good and are supposed to help different conditions like

RA. I am on a lot of medications as well for the RA, I feel like an

old lady sometimes with all these meds, but if they can help me....

it will be worth it. Email me anytime if you want to chat or ask

questions. I know how hard it is. Try to rest as often as you can

and learn to listen to your body. If it is telling you it is time

to rest, then definitely rest. It is hard to accept all the changes

at once, but over time you will adapt, I promise. My email should

be listed above, but if not it is tracierae@.... Take

care and good luck. Tracie

>

>

> HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

> RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

> PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

> IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE

DONE

> THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK.

I

> JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

> KIM

[Guest guest]

Welcome, Kim! Sorry about your RA diagnosis and that you aren't doing well.

Do you have a rheumatologist? When were you diagnosed? What medications are

your taking?

I'll tell you where to go!

Mayo Clinic in Rochester

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

s Hopkins Medicine

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

[ ] PLEASE HELP

>

>

>

> HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

> RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

> PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

> IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

> THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

> JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

> KIM

[Guest guest]

Hi my name is Tammy. I'm Ken's wife. I hope this will help you at least a

little. Last year Ken's hands were really bad and I taught him to chrochet. He

says that it helps his hands. I guess it's a form of PT.

foxybratgirlkm <foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

KIM

[Guest guest]

Tammy, It is so great to see such a supporting wife. Ken told me about his

crocheting and if I didn't have it I would probably never use my hands again. I

crochet all the time, turning out afghans for all my friends. It is a joy to me

because just to see the look on their faces when they open up their gift is

priceless. A smile with this gift means more to me than anything else. It

helps through the dark times. Ken is lucky to have you. And if you ever get

bored I have more patterns than you can imagine. Remember now, I am a product

of the 60's,

Judith Ann

T Samualsen <chainlink1960@...> wrote:

Hi my name is Tammy. I'm Ken's wife. I hope this will help you at least a

little. Last year Ken's hands were really bad and I taught him to chrochet. He

says that it helps his hands. I guess it's a form of PT.

foxybratgirlkm <foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

KIM

[Guest guest]

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE BUT I TRIED TO DO THAT WHEN MY HANDS WERE OK. AND I

COULDN'T DO IT. I TRY AND DO THE DISHES, CUASE MY HANDS ARE UNDER THE WARM

WATER. AND THAT FEELS GOOD.

KIM

T Samualsen <chainlink1960@...> wrote:

Hi my name is Tammy. I'm Ken's wife. I hope this will help you at least a

little. Last year Ken's hands were really bad and I taught him to chrochet. He

says that it helps his hands. I guess it's a form of PT.

foxybratgirlkm <foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

KIM

[Guest guest]

Ken also has a rubber ball (I think they call it a stress ball). He was using

that at first and it helped some what.

KIM SNYDER <foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE BUT I TRIED TO DO THAT WHEN MY HANDS WERE OK. AND I

COULDN'T DO IT. I TRY AND DO THE DISHES, CUASE MY HANDS ARE UNDER THE WARM

WATER. AND THAT FEELS GOOD.

KIM

T Samualsen <chainlink1960@...> wrote:

Hi my name is Tammy. I'm Ken's wife. I hope this will help you at least a

little. Last year Ken's hands were really bad and I taught him to chrochet. He

says that it helps his hands. I guess it's a form of PT.

foxybratgirlkm <foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

KIM

[Guest guest]

I'd say the Estradiol is the problem here too.

In reducing it T should improve, as Estrogen suppresses LH, which stimulates

T production.

As I just said, Dr Shippen now uses Estrogen inhibitors in tiny doses.

I agree there is no use for T therapy.

Nick

> Please Help

>

>

>

> I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope

> others will read this post and offer any opinions. It's a bit

> lengthy, but please bear with me.

>

> First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for

> almost 10 years. Since, my mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered

> in silence for the first 5 years and then woke up and said to

> myself there is no way I can live the rest of my life like

> this and went to see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4

> doctors and luckily stumbled across this group. I've learned

> plenty here and the postings have encouraged me to learn all

> I can and to take control of my situation. For that, I am

> grateful to all that take the time to share their learnings.

> From here on out, you can count on me to share my experiences

> so others may benefit.

>

> I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and

> other sources, that I know more about hypogonadism than ANY

> of the doctors I've seen. (though, that might not be saying

> much) Been through many rounds of tests and the readings

> usually come back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to

> go though periods of time where my libido goes from existent,

> but unacceptable, to totally non-existent. The tests that

> follow are the latest and were during a period that I

> experienced the highest sex drive I experience, but again far

> from acceptable. I'm confidant these numbers are as good as

> they get for me.

>

> The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run

> all the tests I suggested and I will push him on that on

> follow up. He's on vacation, so I requested his office mail

> me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts on

> them. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

>

> TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

> Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

> Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

> Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

> LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

> Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

> Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

> Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

>

> 1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

> 2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering

> the upper range is 1000 and I'm only 188 points above the

> lower end, actually is rather low. If I was 188 from the

> upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

> 3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

> 4. Prolactin – seems ok.

> 5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has

> greater swings than FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as

> well. Why Drs don't run ALL the tests is beyond me. Very frustrating!

> 6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

> 7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

> 8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

>

> Based on these results, it seems the first course of action

> is to get my E2 lowered. I'm thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM.

> Where should this numer be? 25? How much DIM should I take and when?

>

> Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another

> round of tests. I'd be curious how this affects my T and Free

> T. Any thoughts?

>

> If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T aren't

> affected, I think HCG per Shippens protocol would be the next

> step. My endo hinted at trying Androgel, but considering the

> 488 number it seems my testicles are capable of making T, so

> why would I want to mess with this.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi good job your on the right track.

As for you questions.

1. Look into Adrenal Fatigue the better number is 1 your on the high side.

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm

2. Your Total T is normal for a 75 to 84 yr. old man.

this link has a chart in it.

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

3. Same as 2.

4. Good.

5. LH is low you could be Secondary.

A link to the AACE Guildelines.

http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

6. Good .

7. not sure.

8. Too high try getting it down if your E2 came down to 25 to 35 your T might go

up 200 to 300 points and you will not need T meds.

Try taking the Idnolplex/DIM one pill a day when you get to the window you will

get morning wood if this only lasts a short time stop it until the wood comes

back and go back on one half keep doing this until you find the window.

Get tested every 30 days when you start the DIM.

Phil

wondering2one <hopefully1000@...> wrote:

I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope others will read

this

post and offer any opinions. It's a bit lengthy, but please bear with me.

First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for almost 10 years.

Since, my

mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered in silence for the first 5 years and then

woke up

and said to myself there is no way I can live the rest of my life like this and

went to

see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4 doctors and luckily stumbled across

this

group. I've learned plenty here and the postings have encouraged me to learn all

I can

and to take control of my situation. For that, I am grateful to all that take

the time to

share their learnings. From here on out, you can count on me to share my

experiences so others may benefit.

I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and other sources, that

I know

more about hypogonadism than ANY of the doctors I've seen. (though, that might

not

be saying much) Been through many rounds of tests and the readings usually come

back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to go though periods of time where

my

libido goes from existent, but unacceptable, to totally non-existent. The tests

that

follow are the latest and were during a period that I experienced the highest

sex drive

I experience, but again far from acceptable. I'm confidant these numbers are as

good

as they get for me.

The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all the tests I

suggested

and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so I requested his

office

mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts on them. Any

feedback would be much appreciated.

TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering the upper range is

1000

and I'm only 188 points above the lower end, actually is rather low. If I was

188 from

the upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

4. Prolactin – seems ok.

5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has greater swings than

FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as well. Why Drs don't run ALL the tests is

beyond me. Very frustrating!

6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

Based on these results, it seems the first course of action is to get my E2

lowered. I'm

thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM. Where should this numer be? 25? How much DIM

should I take and when?

Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another round of tests. I'd be

curious

how this affects my T and Free T. Any thoughts?

If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T aren't affected, I think

HCG

per Shippens protocol would be the next step. My endo hinted at trying Androgel,

but

considering the 488 number it seems my testicles are capable of making T, so why

would I want to mess with this.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I don't have personal experience with thyroid function, so get

additional info. from people who do. Low thyroid levels can

cause symptoms overlapping those of hypogonadism, including

low libido, etc. Your low free T4 and high TSH suggest

hypothyroidism. I've heard that the upper range for TSH is being

reduced from 5.5 down to about 3.5. The median healthy TSH

level is around 1.3. So I suggest concentrating on thyroid levels

first.

Estradiol (E2) is elevated enough to contribute to your

symptoms. IM 25-40 is a healthy range Indolplex with DIM is

good stuff. Shippen's diet/weight/exercise suggestions are good.

Adding zinc (with a little extra copper) can help. Opinions on

controlling estrogens with soy protein are mixed.

Can hypothyroidism lead to increased E2, or can increased E2

lead to hypothyroidism? SWAG: Probably both.

I suggest treating the thyroid issues first, then re-checking E2

levels later. It may be that fixing thyroid will help lower E2. Avoid

the temptation to treat them both at once, that could end up

wasting time rather than saving it. It confuses things, like figuring

out which thing is doing what, which dosage should be adjusted,

etc.

A good site about lab tests:

http://www.labtestsonline.org

(Anyone want to double-check my opinion? Please?)

Congratulations on taking charge in your treatment. That's no

small accomplishment.

Best,

Bruce

>

> I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope

others will read this

> post and offer any opinions. It's a bit lengthy, but please bear

with me.

>

> First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for almost 10

years. Since, my

> mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered in silence for the first 5

years and then woke up

> and said to myself there is no way I can live the rest of my life

like this and went to

> see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4 doctors and luckily

stumbled across this

> group. I've learned plenty here and the postings have

encouraged me to learn all I can

> and to take control of my situation. For that, I am grateful to all

that take the time to

> share their learnings. From here on out, you can count on me

to share my

> experiences so others may benefit.

>

> I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and other

sources, that I know

> more about hypogonadism than ANY of the doctors I've seen.

(though, that might not

> be saying much) Been through many rounds of tests and the

readings usually come

> back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to go though

periods of time where my

> libido goes from existent, but unacceptable, to totally

non-existent. The tests that

> follow are the latest and were during a period that I

experienced the highest sex drive

> I experience, but again far from acceptable. I'm confidant these

numbers are as good

> as they get for me.

>

> The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all

the tests I suggested

> and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so I

requested his office

> mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts

on them. Any

> feedback would be much appreciated.

>

> TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

> Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

> Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

> Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

> LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

> Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

> Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

> Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

>

> 1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

> 2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering

the upper range is 1000

> and I'm only 188 points above the lower end, actually is rather

low. If I was 188 from

> the upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

> 3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

> 4. Prolactin – seems ok.

> 5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has

greater swings than

> FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as well. Why Drs don't

run ALL the tests is

> beyond me. Very frustrating!

> 6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

> 7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

> 8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

>

> Based on these results, it seems the first course of action is to

get my E2 lowered. I'm

> thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM. Where should this numer be?

25? How much DIM

> should I take and when?

>

> Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another round of

tests. I'd be curious

> how this affects my T and Free T. Any thoughts?

>

> If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T

aren't affected, I think HCG

> per Shippens protocol would be the next step. My endo hinted

at trying Androgel, but

> considering the 488 number it seems my testicles are capable

of making T, so why

> would I want to mess with this.

[Guest guest]

Welcome Kim. I'm sorry you are in so much pain. Do you take pain

meds? Some people get relief from the hot wax treatments. I think

they cost around 39$. What meds are you on and how long have you been

on them? Maybe you need something else if your current treatment

isn't working.

a

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 04:35:32 -0000, foxybratgirlkm

<foxybratgirlkm@...> wrote:

>

>

> HI MY NAME IS KIM AND I'M 25 YEARS OLD. I HAVE BEEN DIAGOSNED WITH

> RA. I TAKE 7 PILLS A DAY. AND MY HANDS AND FINGERS ARE IN CONSTANT

> PAIN. I'M OVER WEIGHT. I KNOW I NEED TO LOOSE SOME WEIGHT. BUT, IT

> IS SO HARD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PAIN? THE ONLY THING I HAVE DONE

> THAT HAS WORKED IS WARM WATER. I BREAK DOWN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I

> JUST WANT MY HANDS BACK. THIS CAME ON ALL OF A SUDDEN. THANK YOU.

> KIM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:57:35 -0000, you wrote:

>

>The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all the tests I

suggested

>and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so I requested his

office

>mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts on them. Any

>feedback would be much appreciated.

>

>TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

>Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

>Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

>Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

>LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

>Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

>Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

>Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

The one most out of whack is E2. You may be able to get all you need

by fighting this high E2 level. Try DIM perhaps. Or Arimidex or

Aromasin. There's study in the file area that showed lowering E2 in

older males raised T levels 200 to 300 points. that would put you into

a healthy range.

If you can fix this without TRT you'd be ahead of the game. TRT is a

live long commitment with sterility and other effects that you could

possibly avoid.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

Thanks for everyone's help. Can't tell you how excited I am to think I'm about

to do

something to improve my condition. All I've heard for the last few years was "

everything looks normal " . I once even walked into a urologists office (not an

examination room), sat down and in literally 30 seconds he said " it's all in

your head " .

> >

> > I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope

> others will read this

> > post and offer any opinions. It's a bit lengthy, but please bear

> with me.

> >

> > First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for almost 10

> years. Since, my

> > mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered in silence for the first 5

> years and then woke up

> > and said to myself there is no way I can live the rest of my life

> like this and went to

> > see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4 doctors and luckily

> stumbled across this

> > group. I've learned plenty here and the postings have

> encouraged me to learn all I can

> > and to take control of my situation. For that, I am grateful to all

> that take the time to

> > share their learnings. From here on out, you can count on me

> to share my

> > experiences so others may benefit.

> >

> > I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and other

> sources, that I know

> > more about hypogonadism than ANY of the doctors I've seen.

> (though, that might not

> > be saying much) Been through many rounds of tests and the

> readings usually come

> > back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to go though

> periods of time where my

> > libido goes from existent, but unacceptable, to totally

> non-existent. The tests that

> > follow are the latest and were during a period that I

> experienced the highest sex drive

> > I experience, but again far from acceptable. I'm confidant these

> numbers are as good

> > as they get for me.

> >

> > The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all

> the tests I suggested

> > and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so I

> requested his office

> > mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts

> on them. Any

> > feedback would be much appreciated.

> >

> > TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

> > Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

> > Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

> > Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

> > LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

> > Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

> > Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

> > Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

> >

> > 1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

> > 2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering

> the upper range is 1000

> > and I'm only 188 points above the lower end, actually is rather

> low. If I was 188 from

> > the upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

> > 3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

> > 4. Prolactin – seems ok.

> > 5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has

> greater swings than

> > FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as well. Why Drs don't

> run ALL the tests is

> > beyond me. Very frustrating!

> > 6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

> > 7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

> > 8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

> >

> > Based on these results, it seems the first course of action is to

> get my E2 lowered. I'm

> > thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM. Where should this numer be?

> 25? How much DIM

> > should I take and when?

> >

> > Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another round of

> tests. I'd be curious

> > how this affects my T and Free T. Any thoughts?

> >

> > If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T

> aren't affected, I think HCG

> > per Shippens protocol would be the next step. My endo hinted

> at trying Androgel, but

> > considering the 488 number it seems my testicles are capable

> of making T, so why

> > would I want to mess with this.

[Guest guest]

again, thanks for the info below.

1. Has anyone had any experience w/ hypothyroidism?

2. Is anyone aware of a good hypothyroidism group on ?

----

> >

> > I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope

> others will read this

> > post and offer any opinions. It's a bit lengthy, but please bear

> with me.

> >

> > First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for almost 10

> years. Since, my

> > mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered in silence for the first 5

> years and then woke up

> > and said to myself there is no way I can live the rest of my life

> like this and went to

> > see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4 doctors and luckily

> stumbled across this

> > group. I've learned plenty here and the postings have

> encouraged me to learn all I can

> > and to take control of my situation. For that, I am grateful to all

> that take the time to

> > share their learnings. From here on out, you can count on me

> to share my

> > experiences so others may benefit.

> >

> > I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and other

> sources, that I know

> > more about hypogonadism than ANY of the doctors I've seen.

> (though, that might not

> > be saying much) Been through many rounds of tests and the

> readings usually come

> > back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to go though

> periods of time where my

> > libido goes from existent, but unacceptable, to totally

> non-existent. The tests that

> > follow are the latest and were during a period that I

> experienced the highest sex drive

> > I experience, but again far from acceptable. I'm confidant these

> numbers are as good

> > as they get for me.

> >

> > The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all

> the tests I suggested

> > and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so I

> requested his office

> > mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts

> on them. Any

> > feedback would be much appreciated.

> >

> > TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

> > Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

> > Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

> > Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

> > LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

> > Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

> > Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

> > Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

> >

> > 1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

> > 2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering

> the upper range is 1000

> > and I'm only 188 points above the lower end, actually is rather

> low. If I was 188 from

> > the upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

> > 3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

> > 4. Prolactin – seems ok.

> > 5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has

> greater swings than

> > FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as well. Why Drs don't

> run ALL the tests is

> > beyond me. Very frustrating!

> > 6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

> > 7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

> > 8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

> >

> > Based on these results, it seems the first course of action is to

> get my E2 lowered. I'm

> > thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM. Where should this numer be?

> 25? How much DIM

> > should I take and when?

> >

> > Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another round of

> tests. I'd be curious

> > how this affects my T and Free T. Any thoughts?

> >

> > If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T

> aren't affected, I think HCG

> > per Shippens protocol would be the next step. My endo hinted

> at trying Androgel, but

> > considering the 488 number it seems my testicles are capable

> of making T, so why

> > would I want to mess with this.

[Guest guest]

This is a cut and paste from another post I've made:

Sometimes one can have low thyroid function, even

though the labs are all normal. This is called 's Thyroid

Syndrome. The best way to determine your thyroid function regardless

of lab testing, is to take your body temperature 3 times during a

day (not when you first wake up) at 3 hourly intervals and average

the temperature. This should be done for 3 days. The average temp

should be 98.6 or close to it. If it is consistently below 98.2, then

this would indicate a thyroid problem. Low thyroid function also

causes all one's hormones to be much lower. Correcting the thyroid

should increase all the hormones. Be sure to use the correct

thermometer, because believe it or not, they do not all work

properly, including the fancy digital thermometers. The only one I

have found that works accurately and is consistent, is one called

Geratherm. It is an old fashioned one which also happens to be the

one recommended by Dr. who discovered 's Thyroid. This

can be purchased at a large drug store or ordered from Dr. 's

website. I will include a link below with a picture of the

thermometer. You can also get more information about 's Thyroid

at this website.

http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/Products/Thermometer.htm

I hope this helps you.

.

> > >

> > > I think I'm about to make a breakthrough in my care and hope

> > others will read this

> > > post and offer any opinions. It's a bit lengthy, but please

bear

> > with me.

> > >

> > > First a little history…I've struggled with low libido for

almost 10

> > years. Since, my

> > > mid-twenties; I'm now 34. Suffered in silence for the first 5

> > years and then woke up

> > > and said to myself there is no way I can live the rest of my

life

> > like this and went to

> > > see my PCP. Counting him, I've been to 4 doctors and luckily

> > stumbled across this

> > > group. I've learned plenty here and the postings have

> > encouraged me to learn all I can

> > > and to take control of my situation. For that, I am grateful to

all

> > that take the time to

> > > share their learnings. From here on out, you can count on me

> > to share my

> > > experiences so others may benefit.

> > >

> > > I'm confidant that through the things I've learned here and

other

> > sources, that I know

> > > more about hypogonadism than ANY of the doctors I've seen.

> > (though, that might not

> > > be saying much) Been through many rounds of tests and the

> > readings usually come

> > > back in the low normal to mid-range. I seem to go though

> > periods of time where my

> > > libido goes from existent, but unacceptable, to totally

> > non-existent. The tests that

> > > follow are the latest and were during a period that I

> > experienced the highest sex drive

> > > I experience, but again far from acceptable. I'm confidant

these

> > numbers are as good

> > > as they get for me.

> > >

> > > The endocrinologist that ran the following tests didn't run all

> > the tests I suggested

> > > and I will push him on that on follow up. He's on vacation, so

I

> > requested his office

> > > mail me the test results. Here they are followed by my thoughts

> > on them. Any

> > > feedback would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > > TSH 4.41 Range .35 – 5.50

> > > Total T 488 Range 300 – 1000

> > > Free T 1.93 Range 1.30 – 4.00

> > > Prolactin 9 Range 2 – 18

> > > LH 3.2 Range 2.0 – 6.0

> > > Insulin-Like Growth Factor 143 Range 114 – 492

> > > Free T4 1.1 Range .9 – 1.8

> > > Estradiol 52 Range 10 – 40

> > >

> > > 1. Not familiar w/ significance of TSH.

> > > 2. Total T – 488 looks like a decent number, but considering

> > the upper range is 1000

> > > and I'm only 188 points above the lower end, actually is rather

> > low. If I was 188 from

> > > the upper limit, I'd be at 812. I think that's where I should be

> > > 3. Free T – same comments as Total T.

> > > 4. Prolactin – seems ok.

> > > 5. LH – slightly below mid-range. My understanding is LH has

> > greater swings than

> > > FSH. Seems odd that FSH wasn't run as well. Why Drs don't

> > run ALL the tests is

> > > beyond me. Very frustrating!

> > > 6. Not familiar w/ significance of IGF.

> > > 7. Free T4 – another new one to me.

> > > 8. Estradiol – slightly elevated.

> > >

> > > Based on these results, it seems the first course of action is

to

> > get my E2 lowered. I'm

> > > thinking about Indolplex w/ DIM. Where should this numer be?

> > 25? How much DIM

> > > should I take and when?

> > >

> > > Once I get this lowered, I think I should go for another round

of

> > tests. I'd be curious

> > > how this affects my T and Free T. Any thoughts?

> > >

> > > If Estradiol comes back lowered, but my symptoms and T

> > aren't affected, I think HCG

> > > per Shippens protocol would be the next step. My endo hinted

> > at trying Androgel, but

> > > considering the 488 number it seems my testicles are capable

> > of making T, so why

> > > would I want to mess with this.