Re: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

[Guest guest]

We did great on some SSRI's and very poorly on others. If he is displaying any

dangerous thoughts or unusual melancholy moods call the office and get it

switched. We did OK on Zolof but when I had him on Effexor and after a month I

took him to the ball game, at the rail on the top level of the stadium he looked

down and said, " No Jump " . Scare me to no end, I get shivers just remembering the

moment.

When we went to Celex we had a very happy and improving kid. But if your kid has

any negative mood reactions to an SSRI get off it and on a different one.

Bill

________________________________

From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 3:52:58 PM

Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only more

negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw any

gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

for him.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bill. I appreciate the advice. I think we will try another one!

Rhonda Masengale

On Dec 2, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Bill klimas <klimas_bill@...> wrote:

> We did great on some SSRI's and very poorly on others. If he is displaying any

> dangerous thoughts or unusual melancholy moods call the office and get it

> switched. We did OK on Zolof but when I had him on Effexor and after a month I

> took him to the ball game, at the rail on the top level of the stadium he

looked

> down and said, " No Jump " . Scare me to no end, I get shivers just remembering

the

> moment.

>

> When we went to Celex we had a very happy and improving kid. But if your kid

has

> any negative mood reactions to an SSRI get off it and on a different one.

> Bill

>

> ________________________________

> From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 3:52:58 PM

> Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

> My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only

more

> negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

> but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw

any

> gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

> behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

> for him.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I assume you're not seeing Dr Goldberg?

How long has he been on it?

What dose did you start out at?  Dr G tends to start kids at 1/4 of the dose

typical (don't know if that's the same for Zoloft or not).  For instance,

w/paxil, you start out at 1/8th of a tablet.  And that much can set off

dramatic

changes in behavior.

I don't know how Dr G can tell when, but sometimes when the kids are seeming

like they're going psychotic, and the parents call in & report what's happening,

certain that there's something terribly wrong and they must change now, he'll

tell them to up the dose (and it takes a huge leap of faith in him to do so

sometimes).  You may see increased stimming, big regression, potty accidents,

super hyper behavior, changes in sleep pattern, etc.  And then two weeks into

it, you start seeing improvements.  Sometimes.   Sometimes not, of course. 

I've

been told to change an SSRI based on symptoms - but I couldn't tell you how he

decides, but somehow he knows.

So really, it depends on what all is going on, what dose you started at, how

long it's been, etc.  If you started at a typical dose that a local doc would

prescribe, it may have been a much rougher start, but that doesn't necessarily

mean it needs to be stopped, pending more info.

I'm sorry you're going thru that and we can't help more...

________________________________

From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:52:58 PM

Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

 

My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only more

negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw any

gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

for him.

[Guest guest]

And you can never anticipate which med is going to be good and which on't. 

Effexor was the only one I ever tolerated (although I can't take it now),

whereas paxil had me choosing a tree to wrap my car around (w/out prior

depression) - very frightening experience as an adult, and I am very nervous

when I try ssri's and tell everyone around me to please watch out for me and

alert me if I'm not being right.  But the kind of cold calculation I was

experiencing, I wouldn't have told anyone of my idealization until I suddenly

realized.  This was before any common awareness of the risk of suicidal

thoughts

was a risk of SSRIs too.  Yet my kids do great on paxil, but better on effexor

(after an initial difficult spell getting stabilized on it).  Where Bill's son

does well on Celexa, mine went spiraling down.  I tried celexa and lexapro

(must

be similar?) and got so revved up on them within a couple of days that I

probably seemed like I was on crack.  (Maybe I should have stuck with it, since

that's how some parents describe that initial reaction in their kids to being so

hyper and stimming.)  But I couldn't have survived two weeks on it.

My kid is severely depressed if he eats anything with soy protein in it (soybean

oil is ok - no protein), especially soy lecithen.  He may tolerate it a few

days

or weeks (until we forget about it), but eventually he'll be completely unable

to enjoy anything and talk a lot about wishing he was dead.  It's terrifying. 

He's 11, and he's so close to that stage that I will no longer be able to

control what he eats (already struggling constantly), and he obsesses and craves

the offending food like a drug.  He must learn right now how it affects him

(and

we've had a few runs of it) so that he can learn that these thoughts and

feelings are something chemical in him, not real feelings.

Anyway,

How old is your son?

 

________________________________

From: Bill klimas <klimas_bill@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 4:41:39 PM

Subject: Re: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

 

We did great on some SSRI's and very poorly on others. If he is displaying any

dangerous thoughts or unusual melancholy moods call the office and get it

switched. We did OK on Zolof but when I had him on Effexor and after a month I

took him to the ball game, at the rail on the top level of the stadium he looked

down and said, " No Jump " . Scare me to no end, I get shivers just remembering the

moment.

When we went to Celex we had a very happy and improving kid. But if your kid has

any negative mood reactions to an SSRI get off it and on a different one.

Bill

________________________________

From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 3:52:58 PM

Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only more

negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw any

gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

for him.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for you help . No we aren't seeing Dr. G right now but I am

planning to see Dr. in Texas this Spring. We aren't officially doing

since we are not under a doc but I want to do the protocol. Not much

has helped my little guy. We've been doing DAN for 3 years. The local psych docs

wanted to put him on an SSRI for mood regulation. He does well on supps that

increase serotonin. I know they don't increase it but keeps it in the synapses

longer. Since I wanted to try anyway, I agreed to it. He is on 12.5 mg of

Zoloft and we just started Monday night. I am thinking of cutting the dose but

keep him on it and see what happens. I was wondering if he was having die-off

symptoms too. The only positive I've seen is more eye contact.

>

> I assume you're not seeing Dr Goldberg?

> How long has he been on it?

> What dose did you start out at?  Dr G tends to start kids at 1/4 of the dose

> typical (don't know if that's the same for Zoloft or not).  For instance,

> w/paxil, you start out at 1/8th of a tablet.  And that much can set off

dramatic

> changes in behavior.

>

> I don't know how Dr G can tell when, but sometimes when the kids are seeming

> like they're going psychotic, and the parents call in & report what's

happening,

> certain that there's something terribly wrong and they must change now, he'll

> tell them to up the dose (and it takes a huge leap of faith in him to do so

> sometimes).  You may see increased stimming, big regression, potty accidents,

> super hyper behavior, changes in sleep pattern, etc.  And then two weeks into

> it, you start seeing improvements.  Sometimes.   Sometimes not, of

course.  I've

> been told to change an SSRI based on symptoms - but I couldn't tell you how he

> decides, but somehow he knows.

>

> So really, it depends on what all is going on, what dose you started at, how

> long it's been, etc.  If you started at a typical dose that a local doc would

> prescribe, it may have been a much rougher start, but that doesn't necessarily

> mean it needs to be stopped, pending more info.

>

> I'm sorry you're going thru that and we can't help more...

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:52:58 PM

> Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

>  

> My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only

more

> negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

> but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw

any

> gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

> behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

> for him.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He's only 5 and barely verbal. Talks in some very short sentences but doesn't

really have a clue about what's going on.

Rhonda Masengale

On Dec 2, 2010, at 6:26 PM, <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> And you can never anticipate which med is going to be good and which on't.

> Effexor was the only one I ever tolerated (although I can't take it now),

> whereas paxil had me choosing a tree to wrap my car around (w/out prior

> depression) - very frightening experience as an adult, and I am very nervous

> when I try ssri's and tell everyone around me to please watch out for me and

> alert me if I'm not being right. But the kind of cold calculation I was

> experiencing, I wouldn't have told anyone of my idealization until I suddenly

> realized. This was before any common awareness of the risk of suicidal

thoughts

> was a risk of SSRIs too. Yet my kids do great on paxil, but better on effexor

> (after an initial difficult spell getting stabilized on it). Where Bill's son

> does well on Celexa, mine went spiraling down. I tried celexa and lexapro

(must

> be similar?) and got so revved up on them within a couple of days that I

> probably seemed like I was on crack. (Maybe I should have stuck with it,

since

> that's how some parents describe that initial reaction in their kids to being

so

> hyper and stimming.) But I couldn't have survived two weeks on it.

>

> My kid is severely depressed if he eats anything with soy protein in it

(soybean

> oil is ok - no protein), especially soy lecithen. He may tolerate it a few

days

> or weeks (until we forget about it), but eventually he'll be completely unable

> to enjoy anything and talk a lot about wishing he was dead. It's terrifying.

> He's 11, and he's so close to that stage that I will no longer be able to

> control what he eats (already struggling constantly), and he obsesses and

craves

> the offending food like a drug. He must learn right now how it affects him

(and

> we've had a few runs of it) so that he can learn that these thoughts and

> feelings are something chemical in him, not real feelings.

>

> Anyway,

> How old is your son?

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Bill klimas <klimas_bill@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 4:41:39 PM

> Subject: Re: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

>

> We did great on some SSRI's and very poorly on others. If he is displaying any

> dangerous thoughts or unusual melancholy moods call the office and get it

> switched. We did OK on Zolof but when I had him on Effexor and after a month I

> took him to the ball game, at the rail on the top level of the stadium he

looked

>

> down and said, " No Jump " . Scare me to no end, I get shivers just remembering

the

>

> moment.

>

> When we went to Celex we had a very happy and improving kid. But if your kid

has

>

> any negative mood reactions to an SSRI get off it and on a different one.

> Bill

>

> ________________________________

> From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 3:52:58 PM

> Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

> My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only

more

> negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

> but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw

any

>

> gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

> behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

> for him.

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you are seeing more eye contact - that's your signal to keep him on it and

ride this out.

It's when you lose eye contact and the kid seems more foggy (not flickery and

hyper but out of it), I believe, that triggers a change.

And sometimes if it's not better or gets worse at two weeks, sometimes they have

you up it a bit and you start all over again, but then it gets better faster. 

You may consider asking for a tiny dose of Tenex to counteract some of these

symptoms, if the doctor would approve.  That has been a solution in our family.

HTH

________________________________

From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 6:35:05 PM

Subject: Re: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

 

Thanks for you help . No we aren't seeing Dr. G right now but I am

planning to see Dr. in Texas this Spring. We aren't officially doing

since we are not under a doc but I want to do the protocol. Not much

has helped my little guy. We've been doing DAN for 3 years. The local psych docs

wanted to put him on an SSRI for mood regulation. He does well on supps that

increase serotonin. I know they don't increase it but keeps it in the synapses

longer. Since I wanted to try anyway, I agreed to it. He is on 12.5 mg of

Zoloft and we just started Monday night. I am thinking of cutting the dose but

keep him on it and see what happens. I was wondering if he was having die-off

symptoms too. The only positive I've seen is more eye contact.

>

> I assume you're not seeing Dr Goldberg?

> How long has he been on it?

> What dose did you start out at?  Dr G tends to start kids at 1/4 of the

dose

> typical (don't know if that's the same for Zoloft or not).  For instance,

> w/paxil, you start out at 1/8th of a tablet.  And that much can set off

>dramatic

>

> changes in behavior.

>

> I don't know how Dr G can tell when, but sometimes when the kids are seeming

> like they're going psychotic, and the parents call in & report what's

>happening,

>

> certain that there's something terribly wrong and they must change now, he'll

> tell them to up the dose (and it takes a huge leap of faith in him to do so

> sometimes).  You may see increased stimming, big regression, potty

accidents,

> super hyper behavior, changes in sleep pattern, etc.  And then two weeks

into

> it, you start seeing improvements.  Sometimes.   Sometimes not, of

course. 

>I've

>

> been told to change an SSRI based on symptoms - but I couldn't tell you how he

> decides, but somehow he knows.

>

> So really, it depends on what all is going on, what dose you started at, how

> long it's been, etc.  If you started at a typical dose that a local doc

would

> prescribe, it may have been a much rougher start, but that doesn't necessarily

> mean it needs to be stopped, pending more info.

>

> I'm sorry you're going thru that and we can't help more...

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:52:58 PM

> Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

>  

> My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only

more

>

> negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

> but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw

>any

>

> gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

> behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

> for him.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I said on another post that eye contact is a good reason to keep with things -

but there's really no reason you can't switch to another one and likely get some

improvement in eye contact on that too.  That's just one of the targets for the

SSRI.

________________________________

From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:52:58 PM

Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

 

My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only more

negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw any

gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

for him.

[Guest guest]

Thanks ! I appreciate your advice.

Rhonda Masengale

On Dec 3, 2010, at 9:11 AM, <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> I said on another post that eye contact is a good reason to keep with things -

> but there's really no reason you can't switch to another one and likely get

some

> improvement in eye contact on that too. That's just one of the targets for

the

> SSRI.

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: rhondamasengale <rhondamasengale@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:52:58 PM

> Subject: Getting worse with Zoloft, time for a change?

>

>

> My son is doing worse each day he's on Zoloft. I don't see any gains, only

more

> negatives. Should we try a different SSRI? I was thinking it could be die off,

> but even his therapists are telling me something is wrong with him. If I saw

any

> gains I might stick it through. What do you all think? Will his psychotic

> behavior go away? I am very upset. I was hoping this would be a break-through

> for him.

>

>