Re: Wonder bread/dairy in general

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Fair warning: this turned into a long ramble ... sorry!

The wonder bread has so little milk, and it's baked which seems to make a

difference.  (I've used small amounts of butter in things with no problem but I

try not to make a habit of it.)  It's highly processed so there is little to

cause reaction.  Most kids can tolerate it, but if you're really concerned, we

use Sunbeam, and I've not noticed if it has milk or not.

In the diet, we're not concerned about casein specifically.  It's not

about

a tiny protein crossing the blood-brain barrier & causing symptoms as the DAN!

paradigm is (or at least used to be).  Dairy (except in tiny processed baked

amounts - less than 2% unless you have a kid with a true outright dairy allergy

(I've heard of a couple) is not that big a deal.  Remember, we're only using a

piece or two to get protein in, so we're talking very limited exposure.  It

would be different to take the same amount of milk itself and drink it.

The paradigm on dairy is that it is known to specifically stimulate certain

cytokines/immune response.  While this is acceptable in a healthy person, in

our

kids (at least most of them), these cytokines are already over-expressed so

dairy just increases that shift.  Also, cow's milk contains certain hormones

that may have a negative impact on the endocrine dysfunction that our kids tend

to have as well.  Mainly it's about cytokines.  However, if this new

retrovirus

found in CFS is one of the major players in autism (which hearing at least

one CFS doctor who seems always conservative and professionally detached, who I

never see express much excitement without major cause expressing excitement

that

I've never seen), then the finding that some of the hormones that dairy is rich

in literally feeds/encourages replication of XMRV, in addition to the effects on

cytokines that disrupt cellular immunity.  It does something else that I forgot

(because I didn't understand it in the context).

One thing that I've felt (and am trying to accept that I'm wrong about) was that

occasional dairy infractions weren't a big deal w/my kids.  I still don't flip

out about special occasions, and have had times where I had nothing to feed them

out in public so got pizza. 

In our world, soy is the evil monster and dairy never seemed to cause much

problem.  But in light of Bill Klimas's discussions/experience about having

believed the same thing - strongly - and fighting it for years, he said he

finally he came to accept it (I'm paraphrasing, possibly incorrectly), tightened

down and followed instructions better, and saw improvements and became a

believer.  That has impacted me and I'm trying to reinstitute the strictness I

used to have.  Just because I don't see any negative behavioral reactions or

setbacks when they get something they're not supposed to doesn't mean that I am

not delaying the healing of their immune system.  (As I get my act together now

that I'm feeling half sane and can think again thank God, or at least Dr

, I'm working to replace the things that have not been good - too many

carbs although I'm still militant about protein first, etc.  Right now we just

tackled soy again, and trying to reintroduce foods he used to be willing to eat

but dropped.)

Diet is tough stuff, but unless you have one of those rare kids with very high

IgE and high eosiniphils, it's soooo much easier to stick to this simple plan,

give a regular multivitamin, as opposed to the strict and expensive DAN! GFCF

diet that also involves high allergy whole grains, nuts, berries, etc - all

potential triggers, and some of them also rich in 'nutrients' that have shown to

be a problem in CFS - which as you're learning (although I think we have a lot

of newbies here) appears to be nearly identical to " autism " .  My kids, and a

lot

of other parents have had the same experience here, became more and more food

sensitive when I was all about packing all the nutrition I could in.  Now we

(especially I) have the least 'nutritious' diet in years (I was all about whole

foods whole grain super nutrient dense foods for decades and never felt worse),

and we actually get better.  Go figure.  But it is well-known that in an

overactive immune system in an inflammatory state, in an inflamed GI tract,

nutrients cannot be properly absorbed anyway.  Pumping more and more into the

child's system doesn't over-ride this.  It is more likely to exacerbate it. 

It's hard to give up that high-nutrition paradigm, until you understand that the

goal is to cool off the immune system, which will then suck every bit of

nourishment it can from our foods and vitamin.  Not that we shouldn't try to

get

good food in - just the right choices, and in a severely food restricted kid, we

shouldn't be panicking.  A kid eating 3 foods a day with no fruit and veggies

can actually still do better than one getting high nutrient rich diets, if that

'good' diet is causing immune activation.

I just try to remind parents of that.  I used to totally lose my mind about how

I was going to get enough nourishment in them, and I've finally understood it's

about the big stuff.  Carbs/sugar set off insulin, which is inflammatory. 

It's

way more important to limit that.  Lovely if we can get vegetables in, but I

think hell will freeze over before my oldest eats them, and he looks beautifully

healthy right now.  And my brother is 30, has never eaten anything but bread,

meat, and pasta, and hasn't shown signs of malnourishment yet, much to my

surprise.  And being 6'4, his growth wasn't even stunted (unless he was

supposed

to be 6'8 like our grandfather lol).

HTH

________________________________

From: <rxwife2008@...>

Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 6:15:03 PM

Subject: Wonder bread

 

I think I have heard that Dr G allows Wonder bread but when I looked at the

ingredients I noticed it contains milk. Just got the book so I can't wait to

find out more. We are currently working with a DAN doctor but am quickly

becoming disenchanted with the cost and little progress. Our son is 4,nonverbal

and spends most of his time spinning things. Ready for my wow moment! So

thankful for this group!