Re: Forced displays of affection

[Guest guest]

i have a different problem. i can't say " i love you " to anyone but

my husband. it's weird. my dad started saying it a few years back @

the end of phone calls and i felt like a jerk for not saying it back,

because i do love the guy, so i told him, " look, dad. i feel the

same way, but i'm not gonna say it. i didn't hear it a lot as a kid,

so it's weird to say, but i'm glad you can say it. "

i feel like a total guy.

bink

>

> " I wrestle with the same fake " I love you " with my mother. I used

to

> stand in front of the greeting card section and gag at some of the

> sentiments expressed to mothers, because I felt none of that for

> mine. "

>

> " I'm a bit worried because my friend said to simply write " I love

you

> too " and leave it at that. Problem is that I don't feel I love her

> anymore. I feel nothing. Numb. "

>

> These sentiments really struck a chord with me so I thought I'd

start

> a new thread. One of my nada's guaranteed rages was when we kids

> didn't return her feelings of affection. If she wanted a hug, by

> golly, you better give her a hug. She is a very " touchy feely "

kind

> of person and so was always trying to hug and kiss us kids. Which

> sounds okay, in theory, except for the fact that if you didn't

> particularly feel like hugging or kissing, and then she'd explode.

I

> remember distinctly once when I was a child that I naively tried to

> tell her that I didn't like her always trying to touch/grab/hug

me.

> She had a complete meltdown. As you might imagine, I had huge

> boundary issues when it came time for me to start dating.

>

> I, too, want to vomit at the sappy greeting card section,

especially

> on Mother's Day. I don't think I've ever gotten her a sincere

> Mother's Day card, it's always been one of those goofy, semi-

> sarcastic ones. I'd say " I love you too " , knowing it was the only

> acceptable response to her " I love you " , but I've never initiated

> an " I love you " . Because frankly, I don't feel that emotion

towards

> her. Maybe, occasionally, an affectionate bemusement, a knowing

> chuckle about some of her more benign antics, but not love. Yet

> another thing I can't tell her.

>

> Anyway, anyone else out there with similar experiences?

>

[Guest guest]

Im the same way Cant say I love you to my mom when she tells me

now,never said it as a kid. My dad when I was talking to him would say

it too but I never did. Wierd as he left when I was 4 and I saw him

all of 4 times from 4 to 20 no calls no bday cards or presents and he

expects me to now tell him that? Or even believe it when he says it? I

dont believe him. It doesnt sound right coming out of his mouth

actions speak louder and words dont fit with the actions ...

>

> i have a different problem. i can't say " i love you " to anyone but

> my husband. it's weird. my dad started saying it a few years back @

> the end of phone calls and i felt like a jerk for not saying it back,

> because i do love the guy, so i told him, " look, dad. i feel the

> same way, but i'm not gonna say it. i didn't hear it a lot as a kid,

> so it's weird to say, but i'm glad you can say it. "

>

> i feel like a total guy.

> bink

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder how many of us are unable to say I love you. For me, I only

really say it to my husband and my kids. It's not that they are the

only three people I love. All I can figure out is that the " only-

maternal-blood-relatives-are-worth-your-time " garbage I grew up

living with daily has taken its toll, and the only relatives who have

never stabbed me in the back are my husband and my kids.

I did notice when I visited my (paternal) grandma the other day, I

hugged her and said " love you " as I left. " Love you " is easier to

say than " I love you, " I guess it's less personal without the " I. "

The human brain is a complicated thing, isn't it?

> >

> > i have a different problem. i can't say " i love you " to anyone

but

> > my husband. it's weird. my dad started saying it a few years

back @

> > the end of phone calls and i felt like a jerk for not saying it

back,

> > because i do love the guy, so i told him, " look, dad. i feel the

> > same way, but i'm not gonna say it. i didn't hear it a lot as a

kid,

> > so it's weird to say, but i'm glad you can say it. "

> >

> > i feel like a total guy.

> > bink

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla.

I can relate to most of what you said. I agree with likening it to a

child molester in a way that is right being its still your body being

violated even with a hug. Might not be your sexual parts but it still

has that same feel of disgust with it.

My mom was NEVER huggy when I was a kid I dont even recall one

instance of it.

Then when we were getting alongfor the 2 years she came for a 2 month

visit where we got along good she wanted hugs all the time. I told her

I just wasnt huggie : [ which is strange as I love hugs from certain

people] She stopped but told me she was a touchy feely person. Im

thinking to myself since when? certainly wasnt when I was living with

her only touch from her I got was a spanking!

> I can't stand that forced display of affection, either! It's

> creepy -- almost like a molester scenario, really, if you think

> about it. You're being made to do something with your body that

> you're not feeling. I'm sure this manifests itself when we're

> growing more independent.

>

> I can recall not feeling like I could speak up when I was in the

> dating years, and I still bear the shame of being with men I didn't

> want to be with. It just never occurred to me that I had the right

> to call an end to it or say " no " . My voice had been shut off as

> unimportant. I had bosses that dominated me, terrified me -- I went

> to work scared. Now, what kind of life is that? What kind of

> parent doesn't let their kid speak up that they don't want to do

> something? You're just teaching them that the world is a place

> where they can't defend themselves.

>

> I posted on another thread about how my mother does little to

> nurture a relationship, abandons me without warning, yet expects me

> to feel some sort of affection for her -- automatically due to her

> status as birth-giver, I guess. I feel this strange mix of pity,

> disgust, anger for her selfishness and cold-hearted silent treatment

> manipulations, etc. It's no mystery that any " love " is going to be

> strangled by all of those emotional weeds.

>

>

>

> It's hard to feel affection for someone who's raged at you,

> manipulated you, overpowered you with their absolute authority,

> didn't care much for nurturing joy in your childhood, your

> adolescence, your wedding, your college graduation (she skipped

> town), your plans to have a big family birthday celebration (helped

> plan it then skipped town again), etc.

>

> Like Celani pointed out in his book " Leaving Home " , I had

> this " Wounded Self " inside me, but I pushed it down when things were

> going well with my mother. And we had long periods of that, in

> fact. Then, when she has a crisis and goes into her BPD mode, she

> ditches me without warning and without regard. At some point, this

> type of erratic behavior is going to take its toll on a person. But

> it built so slowly, so imperceptibly, that once I decided I'd had

> enough, it felt wierd. Like I was over-correcting, overdoing it.

> Like I was annihilating them for such a slight snub! And my dad is

> only too happy to paint it just that way: " We haven't heard from

> you..... " We need to solve these problems " ..... " Call us or don't call

> us, it's up to you, just know that we love you and our hearts are

> hurting, etc. " But, boy, if I bring up that it might be due to her

> dysfunction and that she needs help, he gives me a nuclear blast --

> " HOW DARE YOU! You're ungrateful and uncaring!! " ....

>

> So, it's just a mystery as to why my affection for them would be

> affected, isn't it? (Sarcasm) I think I was getting very hung up on

> the fact that there wasn't a big blowup, yet this longstanding

> relationship suffered a major change. Like when a couple endures

> years of fighting but always makes up, but the woman sees a scene in

> a movie that causes her to have a paradigm shift and she suddenly

> knows she's tired of all the fighting and goes to a divorce lawyer.

> Sometimes it's the " slightest " thing that finally removes the

> blinders from our eyes -- it makes sense that the BPD would go " What

> happened? You've always put up with my crap, but you've changed!!

> What's wrong with you?!! " Their bewilderment seems understandable,

> but, it's not our primary concern, and we must soldier on.

>

> Good thread! " Forced affection " is Good food for thought -- sorry

> to ramble, but it helped me to pour that out in writing! I think a

> lot of this boils down to throwing off the mantle of forced

> affection, a forced fake relationship, and finally getting REAL!

>

> Happy New Year, my KO friends!

>

> {big hugs]

> Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla,

Growing up I can't remember one hug from my parents either. I did get spanked

often, slapped in the face for (talking back- asserting my separateness),

screamed at, looks that could kill. The way she showed her " love " was through

buying me clothes, taking me to get my hair fixed (all the things I didn't

really want but instead were a projection of what she wanted). Now as she has

gotten older she has also started to say " I love you " which she rarely if ever

said while growing up and trying to hug me. The hugs are cold and aloof. They

feel so strange. As a 6 year old child I couldn't fall asleep one night because

I didn't tell my mother I got in trouble at school for talking. When I made that

long dark walk down the hall to her on the couch and confessed with tears in my

eyes she laughed at me and said something like, " Oh poor Kelley you're just so

sensitive. " She never got up off the couch to hold me, console me, nothing. I

remember her saying, " It's okay go back to bed. " I turned around and cried

myself back to my bed and back to sleep that night. All alone 6 years old having

no one to understand me. I remember being confused about her reaction but I just

put it down deep inside and told myself I was the one who was faulty. She now

prides herself on raising two very independent girls. I believe it is not good

to raise a 6 year old to comfort herself at all times. I don't know how to do it

and now I find it very difficult to receive any comfort even from my husband and

son. It's almost as if I have to talk to my husband and get my trust bank full

before I can readily receive his affection. This is hard for him because his

love language is affection. Sometimes I wonder how he was drawn to me someone

who pushes away affection most of the time.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: femspirit@...: Wed, 2 Jan

2008 01:40:22 +0000Subject: Re: Forced displays of affection

Kyla. I can relate to most of what you said. I agree with likening it to achild

molester in a way that is right being its still your body beingviolated even

with a hug. Might not be your sexual parts but it stillhas that same feel of

disgust with it. My mom was NEVER huggy when I was a kid I dont even recall

oneinstance of it. Then when we were getting alongfor the 2 years she came for a

2 monthvisit where we got along good she wanted hugs all the time. I told herI

just wasnt huggie : [ which is strange as I love hugs from certainpeople] She

stopped but told me she was a touchy feely person. Imthinking to myself since

when? certainly wasnt when I was living withher only touch from her I got was a

spanking! > I can't stand that forced display of affection, either! It's

> creepy -- almost like a molester scenario, really, if you think > about it.

You're being made to do something with your body that > you're not feeling. I'm

sure this manifests itself when we're > growing more independent.> > I can

recall not feeling like I could speak up when I was in the > dating years, and I

still bear the shame of being with men I didn't > want to be with. It just never

occurred to me that I had the right > to call an end to it or say " no " . My voice

had been shut off as > unimportant. I had bosses that dominated me, terrified me

-- I went > to work scared. Now, what kind of life is that? What kind of >

parent doesn't let their kid speak up that they don't want to do > something?

You're just teaching them that the world is a place > where they can't defend

themselves. > > I posted on another thread about how my mother does little to >

nurture a relationship, abandons me without warning, yet expects me > to feel

some sort of affection for her -- automatically due to her > status as

birth-giver, I guess. I feel this strange mix of pity, > disgust, anger for her

selfishness and cold-hearted silent treatment > manipulations, etc. It's no

mystery that any " love " is going to be > strangled by all of those emotional

weeds.> > > > It's hard to feel affection for someone who's raged at you, >

manipulated you, overpowered you with their absolute authority, > didn't care

much for nurturing joy in your childhood, your > adolescence, your wedding, your

college graduation (she skipped > town), your plans to have a big family

birthday celebration (helped > plan it then skipped town again), etc. > > Like

Celani pointed out in his book " Leaving Home " , I had > this " Wounded Self "

inside me, but I pushed it down when things were > going well with my mother.

And we had long periods of that, in > fact. Then, when she has a crisis and goes

into her BPD mode, she > ditches me without warning and without regard. At some

point, this > type of erratic behavior is going to take its toll on a person.

But > it built so slowly, so imperceptibly, that once I decided I'd had >

enough, it felt wierd. Like I was over-correcting, overdoing it. > Like I was

annihilating them for such a slight snub! And my dad is > only too happy to

paint it just that way: " We haven't heard from > you..... " We need to solve these

problems " ..... " Call us or don't call > us, it's up to you, just know that we

love you and our hearts are > hurting, etc. " But, boy, if I bring up that it

might be due to her > dysfunction and that she needs help, he gives me a nuclear

blast --> " HOW DARE YOU! You're ungrateful and uncaring!! " ....> > So, it's just

a mystery as to why my affection for them would be > affected, isn't it?

(Sarcasm) I think I was getting very hung up on > the fact that there wasn't a

big blowup, yet this longstanding > relationship suffered a major change. Like

when a couple endures > years of fighting but always makes up, but the woman

sees a scene in > a movie that causes her to have a paradigm shift and she

suddenly > knows she's tired of all the fighting and goes to a divorce lawyer. >

Sometimes it's the " slightest " thing that finally removes the > blinders from

our eyes -- it makes sense that the BPD would go " What > happened? You've always

put up with my crap, but you've changed!! > What's wrong with you?!! " Their

bewilderment seems understandable, > but, it's not our primary concern, and we

must soldier on.> > Good thread! " Forced affection " is Good food for thought --

sorry > to ramble, but it helped me to pour that out in writing! I think a > lot

of this boils down to throwing off the mantle of forced > affection, a forced

fake relationship, and finally getting REAL!> > Happy New Year, my KO friends!>

> {big hugs]> Kyla>

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[Guest guest]

when i was in high school and things were at their worst, i didn't

let anybody touch me. i even got pissed off at my dad, gave him the

silent treatment for 2 years and didn't hug him (he was drinking to

the point of blacking out and driving us around and i was just tired

of acting like everything was normal). so when i started going out

with my now-husband @ 18, people were shocked because i was

constantly just hanging on him, rough-housing with him, curled up

next to him. i'm glad he likes to cuddle to because having one human

to satiate all your tactile needs has got to be exhausting to him on

some level.

bink

>

> Kyla.

> I can relate to most of what you said. I agree with likening it to a

> child molester in a way that is right being its still your body

being

> violated even with a hug. Might not be your sexual parts but it

still

> has that same feel of disgust with it.

> My mom was NEVER huggy when I was a kid I dont even recall one

> instance of it.

> Then when we were getting alongfor the 2 years she came for a 2

month

> visit where we got along good she wanted hugs all the time. I told

her

> I just wasnt huggie : [ which is strange as I love hugs from certain

> people] She stopped but told me she was a touchy feely person. Im

> thinking to myself since when? certainly wasnt when I was living

with

> her only touch from her I got was a spanking!

>

>

>

> > I can't stand that forced display of affection, either! It's

> > creepy -- almost like a molester scenario, really, if you think

> > about it. You're being made to do something with your body that

> > you're not feeling. I'm sure this manifests itself when we're

> > growing more independent.

> >

> > I can recall not feeling like I could speak up when I was in the

> > dating years, and I still bear the shame of being with men I

didn't

> > want to be with. It just never occurred to me that I had the

right

> > to call an end to it or say " no " . My voice had been shut off as

> > unimportant. I had bosses that dominated me, terrified me -- I

went

> > to work scared. Now, what kind of life is that? What kind of

> > parent doesn't let their kid speak up that they don't want to do

> > something? You're just teaching them that the world is a place

> > where they can't defend themselves.

> >

> > I posted on another thread about how my mother does little to

> > nurture a relationship, abandons me without warning, yet expects

me

> > to feel some sort of affection for her -- automatically due to

her

> > status as birth-giver, I guess. I feel this strange mix of pity,

> > disgust, anger for her selfishness and cold-hearted silent

treatment

> > manipulations, etc. It's no mystery that any " love " is going to

be

> > strangled by all of those emotional weeds.

> >

> >

> >

> > It's hard to feel affection for someone who's raged at you,

> > manipulated you, overpowered you with their absolute authority,

> > didn't care much for nurturing joy in your childhood, your

> > adolescence, your wedding, your college graduation (she skipped

> > town), your plans to have a big family birthday celebration

(helped

> > plan it then skipped town again), etc.

> >

> > Like Celani pointed out in his book " Leaving Home " , I had

> > this " Wounded Self " inside me, but I pushed it down when things

were

> > going well with my mother. And we had long periods of that, in

> > fact. Then, when she has a crisis and goes into her BPD mode,

she

> > ditches me without warning and without regard. At some point,

this

> > type of erratic behavior is going to take its toll on a person.

But

> > it built so slowly, so imperceptibly, that once I decided I'd had

> > enough, it felt wierd. Like I was over-correcting, overdoing

it.

> > Like I was annihilating them for such a slight snub! And my dad

is

> > only too happy to paint it just that way: " We haven't heard from

> > you..... " We need to solve these problems " ..... " Call us or don't

call

> > us, it's up to you, just know that we love you and our hearts are

> > hurting, etc. " But, boy, if I bring up that it might be due to

her

> > dysfunction and that she needs help, he gives me a nuclear blast -

-

> > " HOW DARE YOU! You're ungrateful and uncaring!! " ....

> >

> > So, it's just a mystery as to why my affection for them would be

> > affected, isn't it? (Sarcasm) I think I was getting very hung up

on

> > the fact that there wasn't a big blowup, yet this longstanding

> > relationship suffered a major change. Like when a couple endures

> > years of fighting but always makes up, but the woman sees a scene

in

> > a movie that causes her to have a paradigm shift and she suddenly

> > knows she's tired of all the fighting and goes to a divorce

lawyer.

> > Sometimes it's the " slightest " thing that finally removes the

> > blinders from our eyes -- it makes sense that the BPD would

go " What

> > happened? You've always put up with my crap, but you've

changed!!

> > What's wrong with you?!! " Their bewilderment seems

understandable,

> > but, it's not our primary concern, and we must soldier on.

> >

> > Good thread! " Forced affection " is Good food for thought --

sorry

> > to ramble, but it helped me to pour that out in writing! I think

a

> > lot of this boils down to throwing off the mantle of forced

> > affection, a forced fake relationship, and finally getting REAL!

> >

> > Happy New Year, my KO friends!

> >

> > {big hugs]

> > Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vi,

I too think it is a BIG boundary violation to force hugs and kisses on kids that

do not want

them.

I am now a massage therapist and my nada always wants me to work on her. One

visit I

absolutely refused because all I wanted to do was choke her cause she was acting

up so bad

that year.

During that same visit my son (six at the time) got really mad at me for some

reason and

screamed that he hated me. There was a big deal made by nada that this is

disrespectful

behavior and I should punish him. My reply was " I never felt like I could

express my true

feelings growing up and I don't want my son to be afraid of me. " Nada was

outraged " WELL,

JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT!!! " " Mom you know damn good and well what I

mean! "

God that was just the most gratifying moment!

hehehe

Carla