Re: When do You Stop Grieving for Your Nada?

[Guest guest]

I don't know when it stops. I was having the same thoughts today,

that I feel like I am constantly in grieving and even when things are

going well in my life I still have this heavy weight on my

shoulders. I'm sorry I don't have any encouraging comments...but

just know that you are not alone in this feeling.

>

> My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was keeping

a distance from her.

> She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

> continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

> and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

talk and it's actually more

> bearable for me now.

>

> But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since I

can remember until I

> left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

often. Its seems to be ingrained

> in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

> schizophrenic.

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know either. I think I'm getting along fine and then something stirs up

the feelings and I'm a scared hurting child again. One thing that helps at least

in the long run is talking to my sister - it gives a sort of validation that the

emotional abuse actually did happen and it wasn't any of our faults: We Didn't

Deserve It.

But grieving for the relationship we should have had - I don't know it that ever

goes away. Maybe we can only learn ways to keep it from affecting us now.

Rapunzel

From: Jess & lt;daisyjess2@... & gt;

Subject: Re: When do You Stop Grieving for Your Nada?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:28 PM

I don't know when it stops. I was having the same thoughts today,

that I feel like I am constantly in grieving and even when things are

going well in my life I still have this heavy weight on my

shoulders. I'm sorry I don't have any encouraging comments...but

just know that you are not alone in this feeling.

& gt;

& gt; My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was keeping

a distance from her.

& gt; She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

& gt; continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

& gt; and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

talk and it's actually more

& gt; bearable for me now.

& gt;

& gt; But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since I

can remember until I

& gt; left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

often. Its seems to be ingrained

& gt; in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

& gt; schizophrenic.

& gt;

& gt; I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

& gt; getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

& gt; as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

part of healing but when

& gt; does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

& gt;

& gt; What has been your experience with this?

& gt;

[Guest guest]

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

I would argue that it has already stopped getting the " best " of you.

You've named it...you know what your dealing with...you know you are

grieving because of it...time will lessen the feelings. When I first

found out what I was dealing with I was extremely overwhelmed. I

easily cried for at least two weeks. I was sick to my stomach. I

was completely and totally consumed by it. Now...I have my moments.

I get frustrated for how I behave in other " normal " circumstances

because I have trouble with " normal. " But I'm getting better at

catching myself...I feel like awarness is a huge step. Before I

would generically feel bad about things for no real reason, now I can

look at a situation and realize I shouldn't be feeling that way and

stop. Sometimes I catch myself early and sometimes later than I'd

like...but I look at it like a work in progress. Healing and

experiencing grief are both processes, not a single event. It's not

like turning a switch. It's more like having to rewrite a computer

program that has a bug. You write some code that you think fixes the

problem and then find the next problem, etc. Eventually the program

works mostly the way you want. I'm not there yet at all...but

slowly, I feel myself getting better.

Hugs to you!

JJFan

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My thought is that you never really get over it but you do get better. For

me, I've found there are times when I don't come to this group for several

days at a time, and then for no reason that I can figure out, I am suddenly

back checking every few hours. I also find that emotionally it is smooth

sailing for a bit and then suddenly (like today) I want to see my nada

strung out and being tortured for all that she has done to me. The anger

comes in waves. The grief comes in waves. And the beautiful moments come out

of no where.

Sometimes I think it's the beautiful moments that leave me the most angry -

in the aftermath of them. The thing is, I never actually fully experienced a

positive emotion until after I joined this group. Well, that's not true, I

have when I have been dancing or even riding my bike but physical joy is

different from emotional joy. I was 32 years old before I experienced the

positive side of emotions. It's like I was a musician who only learned to

play the bass cleff, the lower half of the piano.I just can't believe it. I

had no idea what happiness, satisfaction, joy or pride felt like for all

those years. Positive emotion doesn't exist in my family. And Celebration -

I had NO FREAKING IDEA what that was, to me it just meant an obligation to

sit and make a huge meal for nada to scoff at. (this year I spent 6 weeks

celebrating the holidays and the next 4 on my BF's birhtday). Finally I have

a reason to live. As I peal away the layers, I realize more and more just

how deeply she damaged me.

Sorry, having a very negative day emotionally. Here's my question - I

actually had a fabulous day. I conducted a 3.5 hour training that went

beautifully and I got a ton of recognition from people in my office who

don't normally notice my work. I impressed a new client. And I took an hour

and a half long hip hop class and I'm becoming close friends with my

teacher. Any thoughts on why - although I feel physically tired like I did

my best, very proud happy - in the background of this I am fantisizing about

physically torturing my nada. I really am sorry for being so dark but there

you go, I will do you the kindness of not describing my fantasy.

Hugs, girlscout

>

> >

> > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

> but when does it stop

> > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

> good life for myself but even

> > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

> part of healing but when

> > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

> or sulking?

> >

> > What has been your experience with this?

> >

>

> I would argue that it has already stopped getting the " best " of you.

> You've named it...you know what your dealing with...you know you are

> grieving because of it...time will lessen the feelings. When I first

> found out what I was dealing with I was extremely overwhelmed. I

> easily cried for at least two weeks. I was sick to my stomach. I

> was completely and totally consumed by it. Now...I have my moments.

> I get frustrated for how I behave in other " normal " circumstances

> because I have trouble with " normal. " But I'm getting better at

> catching myself...I feel like awarness is a huge step. Before I

> would generically feel bad about things for no real reason, now I can

> look at a situation and realize I shouldn't be feeling that way and

> stop. Sometimes I catch myself early and sometimes later than I'd

> like...but I look at it like a work in progress. Healing and

> experiencing grief are both processes, not a single event. It's not

> like turning a switch. It's more like having to rewrite a computer

> program that has a bug. You write some code that you think fixes the

> problem and then find the next problem, etc. Eventually the program

> works mostly the way you want. I'm not there yet at all...but

> slowly, I feel myself getting better.

>

> Hugs to you!

> JJFan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know when the grieving stops. I have this weird insane hope

that maybe, just maybe, she might one day seek treatment and become

the mom I always longed for her to be (and I still think she has it

inside her) - but today, it ain't happening. It especially hurts

whenever I'm around a friend's mom or dad that is like Ozzie and

Harriet. That's when I grieve the most - because it is possible to

feel loss over something you never had.

She sometimes has some really great brief periods where she's easy to

be around. Then I say something that I think is totally innocent

(like, " That's a cute blouse " ) and the next thing I know, she's

dissolved in tears, or in a rage, over some perceived slight on my

part. Then she starts in with a full accounting of my sins over the

brief period when she was easy to be around. So I'm never quite at

ease, even during her " easy " times. She can flip on a dime.

I grieve because I can't be myself around her. I grieve because she

doesn't accept the real me. I grieve because so many times I long to

be able to relax, for her to be able to relax, but it's like an armed

camp a lot of times.

So long story short (too late), I've never stopped grieving. It's

just in one stage or another. Sometimes I'm sad, sometimes I'm angry,

sometimes I bargain (with myself or her), some days I'm in denial,

and some days I just accept the loss. But I'm always grieving.

>

> My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was keeping

a distance from her.

> She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

> continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

> and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

talk and it's actually more

> bearable for me now.

>

> But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since I

can remember until I

> left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

often. Its seems to be ingrained

> in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

> schizophrenic.

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

[Guest guest]

I only wish my sister would talk about what we went through. She

refuses to acknowledge it, saying " It's no use to live in the past,

we need to live in the now. "

My dad has never apologized or made amends to me for the part he

played (alcoholic, aloof, disconnected, narcisssist, not protecting

us from nada) in my upbringing. He too lives for today. I go to Al

Anon to deal with that.

Some days I feel crazy, because it seems like I'm the only one who

acknowledges what we all went through. But I know what happened. I'm

not crazy. It happened. Nada is no better than when we were one big

dysfunctional family.

It has to be good enough that I acknowledge what happened. I used to

discount and downplay, but no more. If no one in the family will

admit how bad it was, then so be it. I know what happened.

>

> I don't know either. I think I'm getting along fine and then

something stirs up the feelings and I'm a scared hurting child again.

One thing that helps at least in the long run is talking to my

sister - it gives a sort of validation that the emotional abuse

actually did happen and it wasn't any of our faults: We Didn't

Deserve It.

>

> But grieving for the relationship we should have had - I don't know

it that ever goes away. Maybe we can only learn ways to keep it from

affecting us now.

>

> Rapunzel

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah Im wondering the same thing...

For me the things that have worked well so far in terms of dealing with grief

and

minimising the effect it has on me day-to-day have been:

* to learn about grief in terms of BPD/mental illness (reading books and talking

with my

therapist mainly) - What are you grieving for exactly? What

beliefs/behaviours/thoughts/hopes/dreams do you need to let go of that are

causing you

to feel grief? 'Surviving a Borderline Parent' by Roth/Freidman helped me out

with those

questions.

* seek validation of my experience and associated grief wherever I can get it

(books,

therapist, friends/partner). Im finding I still need quite a lot of validation

day-to-day.

* hold a grieving ceremony. I did this on my own in my unit on the carpet. I

wrote down all

the things I was grieving for and wanted to let go of related to my mum and our

relationship. Then I put every candle I owned into the room, closed the windows

and lit

them. Put a rug on the carpet, burnt some sage sticks and read through my list

one by

one. By the time I hit the end of the list I was crying heaps and releasing a

lot of emotion.

Once I finished the list I burnt a " book of poems from mother to daughter " that

my mum

had bought me years ago (to me it represented the mother I wish I had and the

mother

she probably wishes she was). I burnt it in a saucepan and said farewell (note -

fire

warning here... proceed with caution!!!).

After that I put some really positive tunes on, opened the windows of the room

and held

the sage sticks and said goodbye to the 'relationship that never was' and

welcomed in

positive energy, cleansing of my emotions, acceptance, and love for the person I

was and

the person I am becoming. I just said whatever came to mind (didnt script

anything, but if

it helps you I would write a few things down).

I still feel sad from time to time (and all the other emotions - anger, hurt,

disappointment,

etc), but grief hasnt quite come back to hit me like it previously did...

although Im early on

in this whole process so who knows, there may be more to go yet! But I have some

tools

to deal with it at least.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry, having a very negative day emotionally. Here's my question -

I

> actually had a fabulous day. I conducted a 3.5 hour training that

went

> beautifully and I got a ton of recognition from people in my office

who

> don't normally notice my work. I impressed a new client. And I took

an hour

> and a half long hip hop class and I'm becoming close friends with my

> teacher. Any thoughts on why - although I feel physically tired

like I did

> my best, very proud happy - in the background of this I am

fantisizing about

> physically torturing my nada. I really am sorry for being so dark

but there

> you go, I will do you the kindness of not describing my fantasy.

>

> Hugs, girlscout

>

Girlscout-

I think sometimes the negative emotions coming out of a positive day

or experience is probably some kind of anger bubbling back up. When

I have experiences very positive events, there are times when I was

brought back to grief and anger because I can't " share " that positive

experience with Nada the way I would like. Further...she was never

really a source of positive experiences either.

At times I do imagine deliberately saying things to hurt her, but I

try not to dwell on it too much. I am working to let go of that

subconsious need to get even or seek retribution. I don't " need " her

to validate my hurts...I know they are real. I don't " need " her

apology to feel better...first, I likely will never get it, and 2nd,

even if I do, it will be like every other meaningless apology I have

received from her.

One thing that has helped me is that I have found substitutes on some

level to share those positive things that happen in my life. I make

a conscious effort to do that sharing and because I know I deserve to

enjoy every bit of happiness that comes my way. A friend of mine

always tells me, " Don't let the devil steal your joy. " I try to keep

that in mind.

Take care...sending you happy thoughts!

JJFan

[Guest guest]

Invisiblemutt,

I can't really offer you any advice because I am going through the

same thing you are. I'm fine with distancing myself from my mother,

but when I think of her, i become anxious, and if I know I'm going

to talk to her/see her soon my whole body seems to want to shut

down. I don't know if it's grieving or some type of childhood fear

that we have left over. We are not being the ideal children that our

parents wanted us to be, we are not giving in to them and doing what

they want us to do anymore, so maybe we are feeling anxiety about

that. I still feel often that I'm being a " Bad " daughter and it

makes me feel anxious. but then I think of why I no longer have a

relationship with my mother and the anxiety lessens.

I'm not sure if this has helped you, but it always helps me to know

that there is someone out there who feels the same way I do about

certain things. It is validating.

~SaraJo

>

> My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

keeping a distance from her.

> She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

> continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

> and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

talk and it's actually more

> bearable for me now.

>

> But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since

I can remember until I

> left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

often. Its seems to be ingrained

> in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

> schizophrenic.

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know

it's part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I knew the answer to this question. Ever since I went NC I

have been sad all the time. I eat myself stupid, I pull my hair out

or just constantly play or fidget with it, I have minor anxiety

attacks, I cry easily. I'm a mess. I try to appear on the outside

though as if I'm okay. I know it doesn't help to let myself be like

that so I really try to keep myself together.

As supportive as my husband is, he just doesn't get it. He asks me

all the time what's wrong and I kind of look at him as if to

say, " you're joking right? How would you feel if you didn't have your

mother in your life because she was BP? " I think he just doesn't

realize that just because I may not be outwardly talking about her at

that moment, that doesn't mean I'm not constantly thinking about it,

feeling guilty and anxious.

I think the lightbulb just recently went off and I realized why I'm

so sad all the time. I am grieving. I lost the mother I thought I

had. I fear when the day comes when she passes away, what will the

guilt and grief be like for me when I regret not continuing to try to

patch things up?

Hugs to us all!

> >

> > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

> keeping a distance from her.

> > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

> her on me and then

> > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then

she

> has been less intrusive

> > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

> talk and it's actually more

> > bearable for me now.

> >

> > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since

> I can remember until I

> > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

> often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her

and

> my brother who is

> > schizophrenic.

> >

> > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is

tough

> but when does it stop

> > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

> good life for myself but even

> > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know

> it's part of healing but when

> > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

grieving

> or sulking?

> >

> > What has been your experience with this?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I could have written that word for word. I totally feel what you are

feeling. I'm so emotional these days. My husband supports me but

doesn't really understand. He always says " but you have my family

now! You don't need your mother! " and he tries to be comforting, but

it still hurts, and I still think about it constantly.

~Sara Jo

> > >

> > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

> > keeping a distance from her.

> > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had

with

> > her on me and then

> > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then

> she

> > has been less intrusive

> > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make

small

> > talk and it's actually more

> > > bearable for me now.

> > >

> > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from

since

> > I can remember until I

> > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

> > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her

> and

> > my brother who is

> > > schizophrenic.

> > >

> > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is

> tough

> > but when does it stop

> > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have

a

> > good life for myself but even

> > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know

> > it's part of healing but when

> > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> grieving

> > or sulking?

> > >

> > > What has been your experience with this?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo:

Oh my gosh! My husband says the same exact thing too!! While his

parents and family are wonderful and I am grateful for them, it's not

the same.

He is a good listener but because he can't understand, sometimes

it's like talking to a wall. I guess he just doesn't know what to say

so he justs and listens which is nice but sometimes it's also good to

get some feedback. Which is why I'm so glad this board and all of the

wonderful people are here!

I know there isn't anything anyone can really do to help. And I do

tell him that all the time when he says, " I wish there was something

I can to do " . I guess that's another reason why I get so upset and

angry. There really isn't anything we can do but learn to deal with

it. (*sarcastically* Great another " unfairity " we need to deal with)

> > > >

> > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

> > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had

> with

> > > her on me and then

> > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since

then

> > she

> > > has been less intrusive

> > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make

> small

> > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > bearable for me now.

> > > >

> > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from

> since

> > > I can remember until I

> > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

> > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of

her

> > and

> > > my brother who is

> > > > schizophrenic.

> > > >

> > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is

> > tough

> > > but when does it stop

> > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have

> a

> > > good life for myself but even

> > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I

know

> > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> > grieving

> > > or sulking?

> > > >

> > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am familiar with family and friends not acknowledging the reality of the

situation. I am so

mad at my best friend from high school who thought he knew my family and

discounted

my recollection of my experiences. He argues that I just need to " get over it,

stop being a

coward, stand up to her, and grow up like everyone else. " My sisters and brother

are in

denial as well. It's really pitiful. Seriously. I could get really mad about

this but I try to

understand that they simply had different experiences with nada and i can't look

to them

for validation. it would be nice but a mistake to count on it.

And I know it's hard to deal with this stuff on your own. Especially since we

are so used to

it not making sense and being our fault. That is a thought that swims around in

my head

even though I know now that it couldn't have been. Its also a big deal to us and

we want to

talk about it.

" Hey what's going on? What have you been reading these days? "

" Um. 'Understanding the Borderline Mother', 'Waking on Eggshells' "

I put book covers over these books while reading on the train because its not

just a phyc

class text or just something i am into. Its a big deal and as consuming as it

is, I don't want

to talk about it lightly. I am sick of feeling alone with this.

But I am so thankful for this group even though its just emails, it really feels

good to know

that there are others.

When I first realized my nada has bpd I felt sunken and overwhelmed but I also

felt

relieved. Not that the memories and feelings have dissipated but I see light at

the end.

This is the end of the major suffering. The source has been fully identified.

It's painful but

as i sort through my issues, I believe it will get better and I am happy about

that.

It's kind of like when you get sick and you go to the doctor who tells you what

is wrong

and gives you medication. You're not well at first when you start taking it but

you believe

that you will get better and that makes all the difference.

> >

> > I don't know either. I think I'm getting along fine and then

> something stirs up the feelings and I'm a scared hurting child again.

> One thing that helps at least in the long run is talking to my

> sister - it gives a sort of validation that the emotional abuse

> actually did happen and it wasn't any of our faults: We Didn't

> Deserve It.

> >

> > But grieving for the relationship we should have had - I don't know

> it that ever goes away. Maybe we can only learn ways to keep it from

> affecting us now.

> >

> > Rapunzel

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Yeah, my husband is a good listener but not good at giving his

thoughts and feeback. I don't think he knows what to say. This is

one of those things where the only people that will truly understand

you are the people who are going through the same thing.

I am grateful for my in laws. they are wonderful and supportive.But

you are right, it's not the same.

We may never totally get over this.

I used to think i would get over it when I had my own children. But

then I realized that it would be wrong to use my children for that

purpose. It's what my own mother did. She used us to get over her

bad past with her own mother. and look, history has repeated itself.

So no babies for me until I forgive my mother and let go of all

this. I don't want to be like NADA.

~Sara Jo

> > > > >

> > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I

was

> > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I

had

> > with

> > > > her on me and then

> > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since

> then

> > > she

> > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make

> > small

> > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > >

> > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us

from

> > since

> > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious

quite

> > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of

> her

> > > and

> > > > my brother who is

> > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family

is

> > > tough

> > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and

have

> > a

> > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I

> know

> > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> > > grieving

> > > > or sulking?

> > > > >

> > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You described exactly why I gave up trying to have a relationship with

BPmom. There are no " easy times " -- just fake fronts that cover up the

bad that is always there. She once described this fake behavior to me

as her way of " making an effort " . NPdad behaved exactly the same way.

In his case, I think it made him feel good to be fake to me, like he was

being the bigger person and hiding his true feelings. He could go for

months as if nothing was wrong, but then, as you said, he would " start

in with a full accounting of my sins. " The relationship was so

traumatic for me that now that I am out of it I don't feel grief, I feel

incredible relief. It's like I went through some sort of aversion

therapy-- my parents' behavior was so ugly and disturbed (and all the

books I have read describe the same ugly picture) that I get physically

ill thinking about the relationship.

> She sometimes has some really great brief periods where she's easy to

> be around. Then I say something that I think is totally innocent

> (like, " That's a cute blouse " ) and the next thing I know, she's

> dissolved in tears, or in a rage, over some perceived slight on my

> part. Then she starts in with a full accounting of my sins over the

> brief period when she was easy to be around. So I'm never quite at

> ease, even during her " easy " times. She can flip on a dime.

>

>

>

> _

>

>

[Guest guest]

My husband and I are planning on trying to get pregnant in September

but I am scared to death not only for the normal reasons of becoming

a parent but because I am so afraid I will turn out like her. As much

as we say we will never be like our nadas and fadas I'm sure I'm not

the only one who has said something and stopped in horror when they

realized their nada or fada has said something similar!

I think it's great and feel the same that we should give our own

children every possible way not to experience what we have and be the

parent we should have had for our own.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I

> was

> > > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I

> had

> > > with

> > > > > her on me and then

> > > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since

> > then

> > > > she

> > > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make

> > > small

> > > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us

> from

> > > since

> > > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious

> quite

> > > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think

of

> > her

> > > > and

> > > > > my brother who is

> > > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family

> is

> > > > tough

> > > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and

> have

> > > a

> > > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I

> > know

> > > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> > > > grieving

> > > > > or sulking?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Good luck with having a baby! How exciting!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her

I

> > was

> > > > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems

I

> > had

> > > > with

> > > > > > her on me and then

> > > > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway,

since

> > > then

> > > > > she

> > > > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just

make

> > > > small

> > > > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us

> > from

> > > > since

> > > > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel

anxious

> > quite

> > > > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I

think

> of

> > > her

> > > > > and

> > > > > > my brother who is

> > > > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your

family

> > is

> > > > > tough

> > > > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on

and

> > have

> > > > a

> > > > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the

grief. I

> > > know

> > > > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I

am

> > > > > grieving

> > > > > > or sulking?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---

,

I understand your fear of being like your nada. But remember - they

don't acknowledge they have a problem or are wrong, or try to

change.

A friend of mine and I used to say that were are different from our

mothers in that, if we see something wrong, or noticed our children

having problems, we would seek help. We would look for solutions.

You can read books about parenting (including on behavior mgt), go to

therapy (now or later), etc.

I was also afraid of being a nada, and have been pleasantly

surprised. I adopted my daughter 5 1/2 years ago. It has been the

best decision of my life. I was afraid, but I knew I didn't want to

miss the experience of being a mother.

I have had to read books and seek advice on some things, like sleep

issues with my daughter. I have sought advice from friends at

times. A lot of it is instinct, I think, once you've bonded. (I

think this is different with adopted babies - I " knew " when I had

really bonded with my daughter when she was ill about 2 mos after I

adopted her - I'm assuming that with a birth child, you would have at

least some of that bond while pregnant or after giving birth.)

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck getting pregnant. Sounds like

you have a good support system.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " sweetkatie7 "

wrote:

>

> My husband and I are planning on trying to get pregnant in

September

> but I am scared to death not only for the normal reasons of

becoming

> a parent but because I am so afraid I will turn out like her. As

much

> as we say we will never be like our nadas and fadas I'm sure I'm

not

> the only one who has said something and stopped in horror when they

> realized their nada or fada has said something similar!

>

> I think it's great and feel the same that we should give our own

> children every possible way not to experience what we have and be

the

> parent we should have had for our own.

>

>

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I

> > was

> > > > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems

I

> > had

> > > > with

> > > > > > her on me and then

> > > > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway,

since

> > > then

> > > > > she

> > > > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just

make

> > > > small

> > > > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us

> > from

> > > > since

> > > > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious

> > quite

> > > > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think

> of

> > > her

> > > > > and

> > > > > > my brother who is

> > > > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your

family

> > is

> > > > > tough

> > > > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on

and

> > have

> > > > a

> > > > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief.

I

> > > know

> > > > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I

am

> > > > > grieving

> > > > > > or sulking?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To me, my grief is over the realization that any entanglement with

nada involves a prolonged game of " Psych! " Think you have a real

mom? Psych! Think you can count on her? Psych! Part of my NC has

to do with the fact that I would love to have a real mom that I can

trust, who actually knows and respects me, and to the outside world

she looks like your typical lovable grandmotherly type. I'd love

that type of relationship so much I think I'd get lulled back into

letting her get too close, only to get crushed. Again. And I know

my kids would love to have that type of grandmother, but she's

already hurt them once (at least), and I don't want them to

experience that soul-crushing moment when she cuts them to the

quick. To me it sucks that she's out there, a tease of a

mother/grandmother, and no one (except my husband) understands that

she's just a facade of a person. She's just a big self-centered

tease. I just keep trying to remind myself that I don't have that

kind of a mother. I think in some ways it's easier for me because I

have very little, if any, affection for her. There were some good

times but they were always weird.

>

> My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

keeping a distance from her.

> She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

> continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

> and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

talk and it's actually more

> bearable for me now.

>

> But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since

I can remember until I

> left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

often. Its seems to be ingrained

> in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

> schizophrenic.

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

good life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know

it's part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

[Guest guest]

All of those things you've listed, anxiety attacks, over eating

pulling hair...etc. They are how I feel when I'm near my mother. Yet,

I guess if you go NC, it's the same things...only with her at a

distance. I think those feelings all go back to childhood...trying

to depend emotionally and physicallly on a mother who wasn't there,

or turned on us, or at times, miraculously came through...insecure

attachment issues all over again. I don't think we'll ever feel

secure about our NADA's. Some very basic childhood need was thwarted

and I know that I've felt like a three year old many times again.

> > >

> > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was

> > keeping a distance from her.

> > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had

with

> > her on me and then

> > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then

> she

> > has been less intrusive

> > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small

> > talk and it's actually more

> > > bearable for me now.

> > >

> > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from

since

> > I can remember until I

> > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite

> > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her

> and

> > my brother who is

> > > schizophrenic.

> > >

> > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is

> tough

> > but when does it stop

> > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a

> > good life for myself but even

> > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know

> > it's part of healing but when

> > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> grieving

> > or sulking?

> > >

> > > What has been your experience with this?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think that you'll be a better parent than you realize...and you'll

be an even better parent if you plan to have supportive mothering

people in your life, after you have the baby. Remember, your mother

won't be it for you. My mother wasn't there for me. She came for

one hour and brought a roast. Well, atleast she did that. I had

read that you'll get depression- if you don't have a mothering person

with you for awhile after the baby is born. So, I told my husband

that I would need someone there even if we had to hire them. Of

course, my BPD husband, would not do it for me when it came time.

Might cost a dime. In fact, he would not accept someone who

volunteered for free. So, I did end up with severe depression that

went on for months and months. And a feeling of being utterly and

completely alone.

I don't know what it is about having a baby. Hormones, I guess.

But, you suddenly feel this need for your mother. A need to be

nurtured and babied yourself, and taught how to handle the baby.

Someone to help you when you are really tired. My son didn't sleep

all night for several years...Exhausting. A neighbor, who I barely

new, is the one who came into the labor room with me. And the

hospital staff were of little help.

With depression you are not able to be the parent you need to be.

So, before you even have a baby...figure out if you'll have a

replacement mother. Or, a decent support network. Or, it will end

up to be just another NADA disappointment.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her

> I

> > > was

> > > > > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the

problems

> I

> > > had

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > her on me and then

> > > > > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway,

> since

> > > > then

> > > > > > she

> > > > > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just

> make

> > > > > small

> > > > > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between

us

> > > from

> > > > > since

> > > > > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel

> anxious

> > > quite

> > > > > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I

> think

> > of

> > > > her

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > my brother who is

> > > > > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your

> family

> > > is

> > > > > > tough

> > > > > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on

> and

> > > have

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the

> grief. I

> > > > know

> > > > > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if

I

> am

> > > > > > grieving

> > > > > > > or sulking?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I relate to this so much! With my stepmother, I learned that when

things were " good " , it meant trouble was just about to blow up in your

face. It made it impossible to enjoy the brief periods of supposed

good humor and normalcy.

>

> You described exactly why I gave up trying to have a relationship with

> BPmom. There are no " easy times " -- just fake fronts that cover up the

> bad that is always there. She once described this fake behavior to me

> as her way of " making an effort " . NPdad behaved exactly the same way.

> In his case, I think it made him feel good to be fake to me, like he

was

> being the bigger person and hiding his true feelings. He could go for

> months as if nothing was wrong, but then, as you said, he would " start

> in with a full accounting of my sins. " The relationship was so

> traumatic for me that now that I am out of it I don't feel grief, I

feel

> incredible relief. It's like I went through some sort of aversion

> therapy-- my parents' behavior was so ugly and disturbed (and all the

> books I have read describe the same ugly picture) that I get physically

> ill thinking about the relationship.

>

> > She sometimes has some really great brief periods where she's easy to

> > be around. Then I say something that I think is totally innocent

> > (like, " That's a cute blouse " ) and the next thing I know, she's

> > dissolved in tears, or in a rage, over some perceived slight on my

> > part. Then she starts in with a full accounting of my sins over the

> > brief period when she was easy to be around. So I'm never quite at

> > ease, even during her " easy " times. She can flip on a dime.

> >

> >

> >

> > _

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I relate to this so much! With my stepmother, I learned that when

things were " good " , it meant trouble was just about to blow up in your

face. It made it impossible to enjoy the brief periods of supposed

good humor and normalcy.

>

> My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I was keeping

a distance from her.

> She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I had with

her on me and then

> continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since then she

has been less intrusive

> and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make small talk

and it's actually more

> bearable for me now.

>

> But for some reason the stuff that happened between us from since I

can remember until I

> left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious quite often.

Its seems to be ingrained

> in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think of her and

my brother who is

> schizophrenic.

>

> I know that growing up with mental illness in your family is tough

but when does it stop

> getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and have a good

life for myself but even

> as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I know it's

part of healing but when

> does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am grieving

or sulking?

>

> What has been your experience with this?

>

[Guest guest]

>

> All of those things you've listed, anxiety attacks, over eating

> pulling hair...etc. They are how I feel when I'm near my mother. Yet,

> I guess if you go NC, it's the same things...only with her at a

> distance. I think those feelings all go back to childhood...trying

> to depend emotionally and physicallly on a mother who wasn't there,

> or turned on us, or at times, miraculously came through...insecure

> attachment issues all over again. I don't think we'll ever feel

> secure about our NADA's. Some very basic childhood need was thwarted

> and I know that I've felt like a three year old many times again.

>

I had a similar discussion with my therapist...she talked about the

fact the even though I was aware as a child that something wasn't quite

right with my mother, I still had the " need " for her to be a mom...it's

how we're hardwired. We want and need that mom to be there for us, but

instead we have a Nada...so we learned bad habits, picked up some fleas

and are now trying to reassemble some sort of normalcy. I had a lot

more anxiety 6 months ago at the beginning of my NC. Is it totally

gone? Nope. But I'm much less obsessive about it and succomb much

less to the bad/negative coping mechanisms. I am just thankful that I

have some close family members that can in some ways be a surrogate.

It will never replace the parents I never had...but it's helpful in the

healing process.

JJFan

[Guest guest]

The fact that you are concerned should tell you that you are in no way a BPD. As

for saying something similar to our children as our parents said to us, it will

happen. That is just life. But it is what you do in the instant after you

realize you have spouted a nadaism or fadaism that makes you a true parent. I

have had to apologize to my son for acting unfair when I realized what I was

doing. That I was acting in the same way my nada did with me. The instant I

recognized it, I sat him down and explained to him what had happened and that it

would never happen again. I don't believe that we have to be inhuman as parents

to be good parents. I have already seen what that kind of parenting does to

people. I may make mistakes, but I own up to them and I always make sure my son

understands why I do the things I do.

Accept that you are human and that you will make mistakes and go on from there.

Being a parent is a huge responsibilty and you will find that once in a while

you may wish you could give them back and long for the " simple " days when it was

just you and hubby. There is no harm in this, it is just another growing pain

for you and the child and that everything is really as it should be. Parenting

does not mean perfect, but it does mean that you respect yourself and your

child. Oh and I HIGHLY reccommend a book called the " Secrets of the Baby

Whisperer. " If you don't have it, get it. It is as close to an owner's manual of

a baby as you will ever get. Good luck. You'll be fine.

Be strong

Re: When do You Stop Grieving for Your Nada?

My husband and I are planning on trying to get pregnant in September

but I am scared to death not only for the normal reasons of becoming

a parent but because I am so afraid I will turn out like her. As much

as we say we will never be like our nadas and fadas I'm sure I'm not

the only one who has said something and stopped in horror when they

realized their nada or fada has said something similar!

I think it's great and feel the same that we should give our own

children every possible way not to experience what we have and be the

parent we should have had for our own.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My nada doesn't bother me as much now that I told her I

> was

> > > > > keeping a distance from her.

> > > > > > She sent me a response letter putting all the problems I

> had

> > > with

> > > > > her on me and then

> > > > > > continued to add on a few more to the list. Anyway, since

> > then

> > > > she

> > > > > has been less intrusive

> > > > > > and has kept a distance from me. On holidays we just make

> > > small

> > > > > talk and it's actually more

> > > > > > bearable for me now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But for some reason the stuff that happened between us

> from

> > > since

> > > > > I can remember until I

> > > > > > left home has haunted me and still does. I feel anxious

> quite

> > > > > often. Its seems to be ingrained

> > > > > > in my personality. I also feel this weight when I think

of

> > her

> > > > and

> > > > > my brother who is

> > > > > > schizophrenic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know that growing up with mental illness in your family

> is

> > > > tough

> > > > > but when does it stop

> > > > > > getting the best of you? I'm still trying to move on and

> have

> > > a

> > > > > good life for myself but even

> > > > > > as I am far from home, I can't seem to shake the grief. I

> > know

> > > > > it's part of healing but when

> > > > > > does it stop? Can I choose to stop? How do I know if I am

> > > > grieving

> > > > > or sulking?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What has been your experience with this?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>