Re: The 5 Stages Of Grief.....Long Post!..

[Guest guest]

Welcome!

Well, to sum it up (of course when asked to give examples, it's hard

for me to think of them!!).....

When I was very young, she was the complete authority -- and had no

problem getting angry and showing a temper. Also, I remember her

sleeping in and letting me just wander around the house, then me

getting in trouble for getting into things in the refrigerator.

Her general, daily attitude wasn't one of forgiveness toward a

child -- she didn't have a mindset that children make mistakes and

get into mischief, so, her emotions were the only thing that

dictated how she reacted to our childhood behavior. Instead of

learning life lessons, we learned quickly to fear her angry,

outbursts. Sometimes rage. Sometimes long tirades and lectures. I

think she was addicted to that feeling of power that uncontained

rage brings. She was in total control -- there was no one to stop

her. That must have felt good to her. My little brother and I,

unfortunately, paid the price for it.

She would sleep late in the morning when my brother and I were in

elementary school. I naturally assumed the role of helping us get

ready and out the door to the bus stop. I shouldn't have been doing

that -- she was just sleeping in. There was no sense of optimism

about the morning -- there was no " Let's go out there and greet the

day! " positive messages in word or deed. We learned that we weren't

important enough to her to send into the world with a smile and a

warm belly.

And on the days when she would get up while we were getting ready?

We would hear her coughing into the sink (heavy smoker) in the

bathroom, and both look at each other like " OH NO! She's up! "

because she would nitpick at us and find things wrong with what we

were doing. And sometimes she would get up with us, but I don't

remember it as necessarily pleasant. I'm just saying that the

prevailing memory is the one where she either slept in, or got up

and yelled at us.

Then as I got older, if I showed any individuality that sparked her

jealousy (I see it NOW, back then I just thought I was wrong all the

time), she would either make fun of me, criticize, or verbally knock

me down. As I grew into an attractive young lady -- some said I was

very pretty -- I think it threatened her, and she watched me like a

hawk. She didn't like that I was forming friendships and alliances

that threatened her status as #1 influence in my life. In essence,

a life without her.

She had nothing to do with me in school -- bitched when it was time

to buy us clothes -- bitched when it was time to go to the store to

buy food, then didn't buy enough to feed two teenagers -- had no

problem criticizing my friends or, later, boyfriends. She didn't

ask me if my clothes were getting too tight (growing was beyond my

control!) and did I need anything. I was assigned the same clothes

that I got at the beginning of school and that was about it. All of

this tends to make one think they're a nuisance. That's how I felt.

She got a reputation with my friends as difficult. I found out

later that one mom didn't want her daughter to invite me to a week

at the lake because she didn't want to deal with my mother. That

hurt. I was ashamed.

My mother always was quick to call people " white trash " or trash,

and she wasn't exactly Jackie Kennedy. She smoked, cussed, drank

(oh, I shudder to be around her when she drank), didn't care about

fashion, etc. Very judgemental of others -- negatively, of course.

She was tight with money. Didn't bother to try to cultivate SOME

sort of relationship with me as I became a teen and young adult. I

think she just wanted to be done with raising me. I remember that a

friend got married really young -- 20 years old. I was in the

wedding. I thought mom and I were going to attend the wedding

together. Although, after agreeing she'd go, as the weeks went by,

she never mentioned it again. When it came time, she said " I'm not

going. " Just like that. Just dumped the plans like they were a

nuisance.

When we got a graduation announcement from a friend, I said " Can we

send her some money? " , and mom's sarcastic reply " She's YOUR friend -

- not mine. "

All of that adds up to someone who's not exactly wanting to build an

alliance with me. Cold. Moody. Negative. Then, needy. Asking

where I've been -- " Why can't you drop your plans, I'm your MOTHER! "

(expecting special treatment -- feeling that she's entitled to know

all my business, and is worthy of my shoving my plans aside.)

When my boyfriend asked me to marry him, he approached my dad and

told him afterward. My dad's reply? " Don't say anything -- it'll

upset her mother. "

Getting a picture of how I ranked in the family? We sat and watched

TV when we should have been popping open a champagne bottle -- ALL

for HER. In my family, ABOVE ALL, her infantile emotional state

came FIRST. Me getting married and bringing another family into the

fold was a nuisance to be batted away. My mother rejected my new in-

laws, saying " I don't have anything in common with those people. "

(How ironic -- she's saying that to ME. One of the things she DOES

have in common with them!!!)

My feelings were not important.

Hopefully, those little snippets from my life give you some idea as

to the mindset I grew up under, and why I couldn't wait to leave

home. I physically left home at 18 -- but I didn't emotionally

leave home until I was 43. Thanks in large part, to this board.

Hope that helps -- Sorry so long! Felt good to get all that out.

I'd love to read others, if anyone wants to share.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Okay. Well that summed it right up.

Some of you may get very angry at me, and this will be very difficult

for me to say (and to admit). But I am beginning to believe that I am

also a BPD just like my mother. I am not sure if I learned these

behaviors from her, inherited them, or both. But a lot of what your

mother put you through, my mother also put me and my sister through.

And now, I find myself doing the exact same thing to my children.

It's very upsetting to me. I am so upset about this. I get on myself

constantly about these issues. I always tell myself (or beat myself

up actually) telling myself to stop spending so much time smoking

cigs out in the garage and go inside and pay attention to my kids. Or

I always try to tell myself to slow down on the alcohol (I am an

alcoholic for sure) so is everyone of my sisters and both of my

parents (no excuse though). But I ignore my kids a lot, I let

them " Fen " (sp?) for themselves a lot. Mainly because I am usually

very very very depressed all of the time. But also because I am

selfish. I want to do things like this on the computer a lot. I spend

much time on the computer. But I am usually doing research for my

kids, or trying to learn how to be a better person, or better mom. I

am NEVER on the computer chatting with men, or trying to hook up or

anything like that. THe past few days I have spent many of many of

hours researching " Lead " in Toys. I want to make sure my kids are not

going to get too much lead from all these toys I got them for

Christmas, that are clearly made in China. Also, I have been

researching my son's illness. He has had a stuffy nose for as long as

I can remember, dried crusty boogers daily that I have to pick out

with a wet q tip. I worry that he may have allergies. So I am

researching those things. So I tell myself that all the hours that I

spend " ignoring " my kids, is legitimate, because I am researching

things for " their better health " . But meanwhile, my children's lives

are passing by, they are growing up and they believe (I think they

believe) that they are not important to me. Even though, I love them

more than anything is this entire world!! Now I am crying.........

I push them away when they bug me on the computer, I make my 5 year

old get snacks for my 2 year old. I make them watch TV all damn day

long, while I am on the computer or while I am depressed as hell in

bed. I am not the kind of mother that my mom was in many ways, she

only cared about " men " having sex with them, being with them,

cheating on them, going out to bars with them and leaving us kids

with sitters all the time...etc...I don't do that. I am home with my

kids every day and night, but sometimes I get so depressed that me

and my kids don't go outside at all for many days......My husband is

very worried about these things, but he is always afraid to talk to

me about these issues because I either blow up at him (but knowing

that he is right all along) or I get even more deeper into my hole of

depression.........It's getting really bad these days.

I don't neglect my kids in the way that you would think though. I

feed them, just not healthy stuff, only easy quick stuff to get them

out of my hair. But that is not always the case. AT least 3 days a

week they eat lots of fruits etc... It's strange, sometimes I am

great, sometimes I am horrible!! But looking at my sister and how she

has raised (or not raised) her kids, I feel like (and my family

agrees with me on this one) that I am a damn good mom compared to how

my mother was, and how one of my 3 sisters is.

I don't know what to do, maybe I am being too hard on myself, but I

really dont' think so. I think that I have all the right intentions,

but I really suck at giving my kids the most important thing in life,

and that is TIME with ME. I never give them my time. Well, that isn't

totally true, my hubby and me took them to the beach the other day

and to the park and we played with them all day outside, but that is

far and few between when we do that. I don't know, maybe I am

bipolar, or BPD or both??

But I know one thing, I do love my kids, and would never ever want to

be without them, and I never want to hurt them, or them to think that

I don't love them, or that they are not important to me. I tell them

everyday that I love them, I hug them and kiss them every day. But

that is usually at night, most of the day, they are just in my way,

and I know that they feel very hurt by that. I never read to them,

and since my depression has gotten really bad, I only bath them

every 3 or 4 days now, instead of every single night like I used to.

I am on antidpressants again, but only for about 10 days now, so it

might take a few more weeks for them to really work. But I feel like

a total failure as a mom and as a person. Part of me blames it on the

way that I was raised, police at my house constantly, dad beating

mom, mom getting too drunk, dad raping my sister, mom stayed with him

but kicked my sisters out when they were only 13 and 14 and called

them sluts, even though he raped them, not the other way around, you

get the gist right?

I need help to change, but I just don't know how to change my old

behaviors I am 35 years old now. Is change even possible?

Hubby is calling me, I have to go now, I will try to explain more

later.

>

> Welcome!

>

> Well, to sum it up (of course when asked to give examples, it's

hard

> for me to think of them!!).....

>

> When I was very young, she was the complete authority -- and had no

> problem getting angry and showing a temper. Also, I remember her

> sleeping in and letting me just wander around the house, then me

> getting in trouble for getting into things in the refrigerator.

>

> Her general, daily attitude wasn't one of forgiveness toward a

> child -- she didn't have a mindset that children make mistakes and

> get into mischief, so, her emotions were the only thing that

> dictated how she reacted to our childhood behavior. Instead of

> learning life lessons, we learned quickly to fear her angry,

> outbursts. Sometimes rage. Sometimes long tirades and lectures.

I

> think she was addicted to that feeling of power that uncontained

> rage brings. She was in total control -- there was no one to stop

> her. That must have felt good to her. My little brother and I,

> unfortunately, paid the price for it.

>

> She would sleep late in the morning when my brother and I were in

> elementary school. I naturally assumed the role of helping us get

> ready and out the door to the bus stop. I shouldn't have been

doing

> that -- she was just sleeping in. There was no sense of optimism

> about the morning -- there was no " Let's go out there and greet the

> day! " positive messages in word or deed. We learned that we

weren't

> important enough to her to send into the world with a smile and a

> warm belly.

>

> And on the days when she would get up while we were getting ready?

> We would hear her coughing into the sink (heavy smoker) in the

> bathroom, and both look at each other like " OH NO! She's up! "

> because she would nitpick at us and find things wrong with what we

> were doing. And sometimes she would get up with us, but I don't

> remember it as necessarily pleasant. I'm just saying that the

> prevailing memory is the one where she either slept in, or got up

> and yelled at us.

>

> Then as I got older, if I showed any individuality that sparked her

> jealousy (I see it NOW, back then I just thought I was wrong all

the

> time), she would either make fun of me, criticize, or verbally

knock

> me down. As I grew into an attractive young lady -- some said I

was

> very pretty -- I think it threatened her, and she watched me like a

> hawk. She didn't like that I was forming friendships and alliances

> that threatened her status as #1 influence in my life. In essence,

> a life without her.

>

> She had nothing to do with me in school -- bitched when it was time

> to buy us clothes -- bitched when it was time to go to the store to

> buy food, then didn't buy enough to feed two teenagers -- had no

> problem criticizing my friends or, later, boyfriends. She didn't

> ask me if my clothes were getting too tight (growing was beyond my

> control!) and did I need anything. I was assigned the same clothes

> that I got at the beginning of school and that was about it. All

of

> this tends to make one think they're a nuisance. That's how I

felt.

>

> She got a reputation with my friends as difficult. I found out

> later that one mom didn't want her daughter to invite me to a week

> at the lake because she didn't want to deal with my mother. That

> hurt. I was ashamed.

>

> My mother always was quick to call people " white trash " or trash,

> and she wasn't exactly Jackie Kennedy. She smoked, cussed, drank

> (oh, I shudder to be around her when she drank), didn't care about

> fashion, etc. Very judgemental of others -- negatively, of course.

>

> She was tight with money. Didn't bother to try to cultivate SOME

> sort of relationship with me as I became a teen and young adult. I

> think she just wanted to be done with raising me. I remember that

a

> friend got married really young -- 20 years old. I was in the

> wedding. I thought mom and I were going to attend the wedding

> together. Although, after agreeing she'd go, as the weeks went by,

> she never mentioned it again. When it came time, she said " I'm not

> going. " Just like that. Just dumped the plans like they were a

> nuisance.

>

> When we got a graduation announcement from a friend, I said " Can we

> send her some money? " , and mom's sarcastic reply " She's YOUR

friend -

> - not mine. "

>

> All of that adds up to someone who's not exactly wanting to build

an

> alliance with me. Cold. Moody. Negative. Then, needy. Asking

> where I've been -- " Why can't you drop your plans, I'm your

MOTHER! "

> (expecting special treatment -- feeling that she's entitled to know

> all my business, and is worthy of my shoving my plans aside.)

>

> When my boyfriend asked me to marry him, he approached my dad and

> told him afterward. My dad's reply? " Don't say anything -- it'll

> upset her mother. "

>

> Getting a picture of how I ranked in the family? We sat and

watched

> TV when we should have been popping open a champagne bottle -- ALL

> for HER. In my family, ABOVE ALL, her infantile emotional state

> came FIRST. Me getting married and bringing another family into

the

> fold was a nuisance to be batted away. My mother rejected my new

in-

> laws, saying " I don't have anything in common with those people. "

> (How ironic -- she's saying that to ME. One of the things she DOES

> have in common with them!!!)

>

> My feelings were not important.

>

> Hopefully, those little snippets from my life give you some idea as

> to the mindset I grew up under, and why I couldn't wait to leave

> home. I physically left home at 18 -- but I didn't emotionally

> leave home until I was 43. Thanks in large part, to this board.

>

> Hope that helps -- Sorry so long! Felt good to get all that out.

> I'd love to read others, if anyone wants to share.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mia,

I don't think any of us here will be " angry " with you.

Some of us might even understand you.

It sounds like you had a very traumatic childhood, more traumatic

than mine and very troublesome.

The fact that you are standing back and looking at your actions and

questioning whether you are right or wrong is an indication that you

may NOT have BPD. The biggest issue with BPD is " knowing " that YOU

aren't the problem but EVERYONE ELSE is.

I'm not a professional of course, but it sounds like you WANT to be

better with your kids and spend more time with them, but your

depressed and anxious feelings get in the way of you being able to

do that. Have you ever considered therapy? Continued therapy helps a

lot in the long run, and can help you get over the emotional hurdles

you have in your life.

I really wish the best for you, and one thing I have learned in life

on my own is that there is ALWAYS help out there for those who ask

for it.

Best Wishes,

Sara Jo

> >

> > Welcome!

> >

> > Well, to sum it up (of course when asked to give examples, it's

> hard

> > for me to think of them!!).....

> >

> > When I was very young, she was the complete authority -- and had

no

> > problem getting angry and showing a temper. Also, I remember

her

> > sleeping in and letting me just wander around the house, then me

> > getting in trouble for getting into things in the refrigerator.

> >

> > Her general, daily attitude wasn't one of forgiveness toward a

> > child -- she didn't have a mindset that children make mistakes

and

> > get into mischief, so, her emotions were the only thing that

> > dictated how she reacted to our childhood behavior. Instead of

> > learning life lessons, we learned quickly to fear her angry,

> > outbursts. Sometimes rage. Sometimes long tirades and

lectures.

> I

> > think she was addicted to that feeling of power that uncontained

> > rage brings. She was in total control -- there was no one to

stop

> > her. That must have felt good to her. My little brother and I,

> > unfortunately, paid the price for it.

> >

> > She would sleep late in the morning when my brother and I were

in

> > elementary school. I naturally assumed the role of helping us

get

> > ready and out the door to the bus stop. I shouldn't have been

> doing

> > that -- she was just sleeping in. There was no sense of

optimism

> > about the morning -- there was no " Let's go out there and greet

the

> > day! " positive messages in word or deed. We learned that we

> weren't

> > important enough to her to send into the world with a smile and

a

> > warm belly.

> >

> > And on the days when she would get up while we were getting

ready?

> > We would hear her coughing into the sink (heavy smoker) in the

> > bathroom, and both look at each other like " OH NO! She's up! "

> > because she would nitpick at us and find things wrong with what

we

> > were doing. And sometimes she would get up with us, but I don't

> > remember it as necessarily pleasant. I'm just saying that the

> > prevailing memory is the one where she either slept in, or got

up

> > and yelled at us.

> >

> > Then as I got older, if I showed any individuality that sparked

her

> > jealousy (I see it NOW, back then I just thought I was wrong all

> the

> > time), she would either make fun of me, criticize, or verbally

> knock

> > me down. As I grew into an attractive young lady -- some said I

> was

> > very pretty -- I think it threatened her, and she watched me

like a

> > hawk. She didn't like that I was forming friendships and

alliances

> > that threatened her status as #1 influence in my life. In

essence,

> > a life without her.

> >

> > She had nothing to do with me in school -- bitched when it was

time

> > to buy us clothes -- bitched when it was time to go to the store

to

> > buy food, then didn't buy enough to feed two teenagers -- had no

> > problem criticizing my friends or, later, boyfriends. She

didn't

> > ask me if my clothes were getting too tight (growing was beyond

my

> > control!) and did I need anything. I was assigned the same

clothes

> > that I got at the beginning of school and that was about it.

All

> of

> > this tends to make one think they're a nuisance. That's how I

> felt.

> >

> > She got a reputation with my friends as difficult. I found out

> > later that one mom didn't want her daughter to invite me to a

week

> > at the lake because she didn't want to deal with my mother.

That

> > hurt. I was ashamed.

> >

> > My mother always was quick to call people " white trash " or

trash,

> > and she wasn't exactly Jackie Kennedy. She smoked, cussed,

drank

> > (oh, I shudder to be around her when she drank), didn't care

about

> > fashion, etc. Very judgemental of others -- negatively, of

course.

> >

> > She was tight with money. Didn't bother to try to cultivate

SOME

> > sort of relationship with me as I became a teen and young

adult. I

> > think she just wanted to be done with raising me. I remember

that

> a

> > friend got married really young -- 20 years old. I was in the

> > wedding. I thought mom and I were going to attend the wedding

> > together. Although, after agreeing she'd go, as the weeks went

by,

> > she never mentioned it again. When it came time, she said " I'm

not

> > going. " Just like that. Just dumped the plans like they were a

> > nuisance.

> >

> > When we got a graduation announcement from a friend, I said " Can

we

> > send her some money? " , and mom's sarcastic reply " She's YOUR

> friend -

> > - not mine. "

> >

> > All of that adds up to someone who's not exactly wanting to

build

> an

> > alliance with me. Cold. Moody. Negative. Then, needy.

Asking

> > where I've been -- " Why can't you drop your plans, I'm your

> MOTHER! "

> > (expecting special treatment -- feeling that she's entitled to

know

> > all my business, and is worthy of my shoving my plans aside.)

> >

> > When my boyfriend asked me to marry him, he approached my dad

and

> > told him afterward. My dad's reply? " Don't say anything --

it'll

> > upset her mother. "

> >

> > Getting a picture of how I ranked in the family? We sat and

> watched

> > TV when we should have been popping open a champagne bottle --

ALL

> > for HER. In my family, ABOVE ALL, her infantile emotional state

> > came FIRST. Me getting married and bringing another family into

> the

> > fold was a nuisance to be batted away. My mother rejected my

new

> in-

> > laws, saying " I don't have anything in common with those

people. "

> > (How ironic -- she's saying that to ME. One of the things she

DOES

> > have in common with them!!!)

> >

> > My feelings were not important.

> >

> > Hopefully, those little snippets from my life give you some idea

as

> > to the mindset I grew up under, and why I couldn't wait to leave

> > home. I physically left home at 18 -- but I didn't emotionally

> > leave home until I was 43. Thanks in large part, to this board.

> >

> > Hope that helps -- Sorry so long! Felt good to get all that

out.

> > I'd love to read others, if anyone wants to share.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, don't beat yourself up! I already know you're a good mother

because you're taking a hard look at where you think you're falling

short! That takes guts! And as for your depression, sometimes, it

can be a very selfish thing. One thing we can do to pull ourselves

out of depression? Have something ELSE to focus on besides

yourself. You have kids -- it's not hard to see where you're

needed. Take a walk with them every day. That will naturally lift

your mood -- it's a natural treatment for depression, and it will

also serve to give you guys something to do together.

There's no magic about this, my dear. You've already " signed on " to

be a mom. Now, go be a mom! Feed them healthier food! I remember

it was a blessing to put food in front of my kids -- it's the time

when we joke around and talk. I still talk in funny voices and make

up stupid songs or stories, etc. And my kids are now 12 and 13 --

they still like it! Mealtime is a time to connect -- you can take

full advantage of that to build a bridge to your children.

And don't be so quick to think you haven't done some things right --

are your kids loved? Do they feel loved and cared for?

Of course you can change! All you have to do is keep your goal in

mind. What's your goal? Be a better mother? Then take the steps

necessary to be a better mother. If your kids need you, your

research will have to come later. Smoke less cigarettes when

they're up and around. (I have a friend who's a heavy smoker --

she's on top of things and then when the kids are occupied or

sleeping, she goes out and smokes. Then it's back to " work " .)

When you gave birth, you entered the world of motherhood: you can't

be totally selfish anymore. The kids come first, especially when

they're little. Other things you want to do will have to be

squeezed in other times. Once you get used to it, you don't even

notice anymore.....putting them first becomes a habit.

I gave up drinking to excess when I realized it made me a crappy

mother in the morning. (One night in particular was a turning

point -- I vomited all night, and my head felt like a freight train

was running through it the next morning.) My priority was either

the alcohol or the kids. I chose the kids. The hangover just

wasn't worth it.

(And don't think I'm perfect! I'm disorganized, have missed the

occasional appointment, watch too much TV, let my kids watch too

much TV, etc. -- we all have our faults!) THere's no perfect way to

do motherhood -- all you have to do is allow them to feel loved,

important and cared for.

Etc., etc......Do you see how it works? Tell yourself as your kids

are needing you and you're on the internet -- " Time to put this on

hold and be with my kids. Time to quit hiding from my

responsibility. "

Yes, you can change. The selfishness is at odds with motherhood,

and you must be feeling that or you wouldn't have mentioned it. And

once the window of their childhood closes, it's gone. That's a

fact. Your opportunity to have them totally to yourself is gone,

and nothing you can do will bring that time back. Ask yourself: Do

I want to live with that regret?

You're 35? That's exactly when I turned my life around -- changed

my behavior -- my old selfish habits! You can do it! My " new "

habits are so ingrained in me now, they're not new anymore -- it's

been 10 years! And you know what? I have a GREAT relationship with

my kids -- they're 10 years older, and in 5 years will start leaving

the nest.

THEN, I have MAJOR plans to be VERY selfish when they're not

around! I'm going to sit in my PJs if I feel like it! I'm going to

sit on the internet or read a book all day if I feel like it. But,

right now, I've signed on to be a mom. And I need to keep that

commitment. They come first -- and I don't mean being a martyr. I

schedule time for myself, too. But the overriding attitude in this

house is -- they come first.

But, I hope that there has been enough love and building them up

in this house, that they'll want to come back again. I don't know

where all the time has gone.....but it's going fast.

I don't think you're BPD -- I could have written a LOT in your

post. And BPDs don't usually consider their faults -- they throw

them onto others. Everything is somebody ELSE's fault. You don't

come across that way.

It's GOOD that you're examining your life and how you live it day to

day. That's so good -- give yourself credit for that! You can

change what is giving you discomfort -- you have power. Change it

and move on. Don't mire yourself in guilt. It doesn't do anyone

any good. You can sort out what you don't like and start changing

it today. Don't expect perfection from yourself, and get started!

You've already identified where you need to jump back in and re-

embrace the role you've taken on. If your kids aren't feeling that

you're attentive to them, then change it! They're young -- it's not

too late. I DID THE SAME THING. I AM YOU 10 YEARS LATER. I'm not

a morning person, but I get out of bed because that's the commitment

I made when I gave birth. I'm not going to be my mother. You can

make the same promise to yourself. If you go in and do the job now

and change your ways, you'll be so glad you did when you're old and

gray and the kids are gone but emotionally healthy people, out

living full lives because their mom thought they were important

enough to put herself aside and nurture them along. Don't sit there

mired in regret and hand-wringing (my mother does that so she can

continue avoiding what she needs to do) -- get busy!

-Kyla

> >

> > Welcome!

> >

> > Well, to sum it up (of course when asked to give examples, it's

> hard

> > for me to think of them!!).....

> >

> > When I was very young, she was the complete authority -- and had

no

> > problem getting angry and showing a temper. Also, I remember

her

> > sleeping in and letting me just wander around the house, then me

> > getting in trouble for getting into things in the refrigerator.

> >

> > Her general, daily attitude wasn't one of forgiveness toward a

> > child -- she didn't have a mindset that children make mistakes

and

> > get into mischief, so, her emotions were the only thing that

> > dictated how she reacted to our childhood behavior. Instead of

> > learning life lessons, we learned quickly to fear her angry,

> > outbursts. Sometimes rage. Sometimes long tirades and

lectures.

> I

> > think she was addicted to that feeling of power that uncontained

> > rage brings. She was in total control -- there was no one to

stop

> > her. That must have felt good to her. My little brother and I,

> > unfortunately, paid the price for it.

> >

> > She would sleep late in the morning when my brother and I were

in

> > elementary school. I naturally assumed the role of helping us

get

> > ready and out the door to the bus stop. I shouldn't have been

> doing

> > that -- she was just sleeping in. There was no sense of

optimism

> > about the morning -- there was no " Let's go out there and greet

the

> > day! " positive messages in word or deed. We learned that we

> weren't

> > important enough to her to send into the world with a smile and

a

> > warm belly.

> >

> > And on the days when she would get up while we were getting

ready?

> > We would hear her coughing into the sink (heavy smoker) in the

> > bathroom, and both look at each other like " OH NO! She's up! "

> > because she would nitpick at us and find things wrong with what

we

> > were doing. And sometimes she would get up with us, but I don't

> > remember it as necessarily pleasant. I'm just saying that the

> > prevailing memory is the one where she either slept in, or got

up

> > and yelled at us.

> >

> > Then as I got older, if I showed any individuality that sparked

her

> > jealousy (I see it NOW, back then I just thought I was wrong all

> the

> > time), she would either make fun of me, criticize, or verbally

> knock

> > me down. As I grew into an attractive young lady -- some said I

> was

> > very pretty -- I think it threatened her, and she watched me

like a

> > hawk. She didn't like that I was forming friendships and

alliances

> > that threatened her status as #1 influence in my life. In

essence,

> > a life without her.

> >

> > She had nothing to do with me in school -- bitched when it was

time

> > to buy us clothes -- bitched when it was time to go to the store

to

> > buy food, then didn't buy enough to feed two teenagers -- had no

> > problem criticizing my friends or, later, boyfriends. She

didn't

> > ask me if my clothes were getting too tight (growing was beyond

my

> > control!) and did I need anything. I was assigned the same

clothes

> > that I got at the beginning of school and that was about it.

All

> of

> > this tends to make one think they're a nuisance. That's how I

> felt.

> >

> > She got a reputation with my friends as difficult. I found out

> > later that one mom didn't want her daughter to invite me to a

week

> > at the lake because she didn't want to deal with my mother.

That

> > hurt. I was ashamed.

> >

> > My mother always was quick to call people " white trash " or

trash,

> > and she wasn't exactly Jackie Kennedy. She smoked, cussed,

drank

> > (oh, I shudder to be around her when she drank), didn't care

about

> > fashion, etc. Very judgemental of others -- negatively, of

course.

> >

> > She was tight with money. Didn't bother to try to cultivate

SOME

> > sort of relationship with me as I became a teen and young

adult. I

> > think she just wanted to be done with raising me. I remember

that

> a

> > friend got married really young -- 20 years old. I was in the

> > wedding. I thought mom and I were going to attend the wedding

> > together. Although, after agreeing she'd go, as the weeks went

by,

> > she never mentioned it again. When it came time, she said " I'm

not

> > going. " Just like that. Just dumped the plans like they were a

> > nuisance.

> >

> > When we got a graduation announcement from a friend, I said " Can

we

> > send her some money? " , and mom's sarcastic reply " She's YOUR

> friend -

> > - not mine. "

> >

> > All of that adds up to someone who's not exactly wanting to

build

> an

> > alliance with me. Cold. Moody. Negative. Then, needy.

Asking

> > where I've been -- " Why can't you drop your plans, I'm your

> MOTHER! "

> > (expecting special treatment -- feeling that she's entitled to

know

> > all my business, and is worthy of my shoving my plans aside.)

> >

> > When my boyfriend asked me to marry him, he approached my dad

and

> > told him afterward. My dad's reply? " Don't say anything --

it'll

> > upset her mother. "

> >

> > Getting a picture of how I ranked in the family? We sat and

> watched

> > TV when we should have been popping open a champagne bottle --

ALL

> > for HER. In my family, ABOVE ALL, her infantile emotional state

> > came FIRST. Me getting married and bringing another family into

> the

> > fold was a nuisance to be batted away. My mother rejected my

new

> in-

> > laws, saying " I don't have anything in common with those

people. "

> > (How ironic -- she's saying that to ME. One of the things she

DOES

> > have in common with them!!!)

> >

> > My feelings were not important.

> >

> > Hopefully, those little snippets from my life give you some idea

as

> > to the mindset I grew up under, and why I couldn't wait to leave

> > home. I physically left home at 18 -- but I didn't emotionally

> > leave home until I was 43. Thanks in large part, to this board.

> >

> > Hope that helps -- Sorry so long! Felt good to get all that

out.

> > I'd love to read others, if anyone wants to share.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mia,

No, I'm absolutely sure that no one on this board is angry at you.. You are

emotionally wounded, but your desire to get better is what will lead you to the

help you are seeking. You probably have the 'fleas' that most of us get from

being to close to the BPD disease.

I'm glad you've started on medication, and it usually takes about 3 weeks to

kick- in - - so hang in there and things WILL get better. If your two sisters

were raped, chances are that you were also sexually abused.

You might read " Secret Survivors " by Sue Bloom. It explains a lot about

surviving incest - - and people do survivor and even thrive after that. It is

never the child's fault - -no matter how much the adult wants to pass the guilt

off. It is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS the fault of the so called 'adult'. And most

abusive adults were also abused, although that is not an excuse. We're all

responsible for our choices, no matter what.

Your love for your children is evident and they will eventually understand that

'mommy was sick, but is better now' -- children are very forgiving and can sense

when they are really loved -- as yours undoubtedly are.

Read the books, get therapy, continue with your medication, be kind to yourself

and know that all of us on this site understand and love you and support you.

You're on the road to health! Hang in there!

Blessings, AZClown

Re: The 5 Stages Of Grief.....Long Post!..

Okay. Well that summed it right up.

Some of you may get very angry at me, and this will be very difficult

for me to say (and to admit). But I am beginning to believe that I am

also a BPD just like my mother. I am not sure if I learned these

behaviors from her, inherited them, or both. But a lot of what your

mother put you through, my mother also put me and my sister through.

And now, I find myself doing the exact same thing to my children.

It's very upsetting to me. I am so upset about this. I get on myself

constantly about these issues. I always tell myself (or beat myself

up actually) telling myself to stop spending so much time smoking

cigs out in the garage and go inside and pay attention to my kids. Or

I always try to tell myself to slow down on the alcohol (I am an

alcoholic for sure) so is everyone of my sisters and both of my

parents (no excuse though). But I ignore my kids a lot, I let

them " Fen " (sp?) for themselves a lot. Mainly because I am usually

very very very depressed all of the time. But also because I am

selfish. I want to do things like this on the computer a lot. I spend

much time on the computer. But I am usually doing research for my

kids, or trying to learn how to be a better person, or better mom. I

am NEVER on the computer chatting with men, or trying to hook up or

anything like that. THe past few days I have spent many of many of

hours researching " Lead " in Toys. I want to make sure my kids are not

going to get too much lead from all these toys I got them for

Christmas, that are clearly made in China. Also, I have been

researching my son's illness. He has had a stuffy nose for as long as

I can remember, dried crusty boogers daily that I have to pick out

with a wet q tip. I worry that he may have allergies. So I am

researching those things. So I tell myself that all the hours that I

spend " ignoring " my kids, is legitimate, because I am researching

things for " their better health " . But meanwhile, my children's lives

are passing by, they are growing up and they believe (I think they

believe) that they are not important to me. Even though, I love them

more than anything is this entire world!! Now I am crying...... ...

I push them away when they bug me on the computer, I make my 5 year

old get snacks for my 2 year old. I make them watch TV all damn day

long, while I am on the computer or while I am depressed as hell in

bed. I am not the kind of mother that my mom was in many ways, she

only cared about " men " having sex with them, being with them,

cheating on them, going out to bars with them and leaving us kids

with sitters all the time...etc.. .I don't do that. I am home with my

kids every day and night, but sometimes I get so depressed that me

and my kids don't go outside at all for many days......My husband is

very worried about these things, but he is always afraid to talk to

me about these issues because I either blow up at him (but knowing

that he is right all along) or I get even more deeper into my hole of

depression.. .......It' s getting really bad these days.

I don't neglect my kids in the way that you would think though. I

feed them, just not healthy stuff, only easy quick stuff to get them

out of my hair. But that is not always the case. AT least 3 days a

week they eat lots of fruits etc... It's strange, sometimes I am

great, sometimes I am horrible!! But looking at my sister and how she

has raised (or not raised) her kids, I feel like (and my family

agrees with me on this one) that I am a damn good mom compared to how

my mother was, and how one of my 3 sisters is.

I don't know what to do, maybe I am being too hard on myself, but I

really dont' think so. I think that I have all the right intentions,

but I really suck at giving my kids the most important thing in life,

and that is TIME with ME. I never give them my time. Well, that isn't

totally true, my hubby and me took them to the beach the other day

and to the park and we played with them all day outside, but that is

far and few between when we do that. I don't know, maybe I am

bipolar, or BPD or both??

But I know one thing, I do love my kids, and would never ever want to

be without them, and I never want to hurt them, or them to think that

I don't love them, or that they are not important to me. I tell them

everyday that I love them, I hug them and kiss them every day. But

that is usually at night, most of the day, they are just in my way,

and I know that they feel very hurt by that. I never read to them,

and since my depression has gotten really bad, I only bath them

every 3 or 4 days now, instead of every single night like I used to.

I am on antidpressants again, but only for about 10 days now, so it

might take a few more weeks for them to really work. But I feel like

a total failure as a mom and as a person. Part of me blames it on the

way that I was raised, police at my house constantly, dad beating

mom, mom getting too drunk, dad raping my sister, mom stayed with him

but kicked my sisters out when they were only 13 and 14 and called

them sluts, even though he raped them, not the other way around, you

get the gist right?

I need help to change, but I just don't know how to change my old

behaviors I am 35 years old now. Is change even possible?

Hubby is calling me, I have to go now, I will try to explain more

later.

>

> Welcome!

>

> Well, to sum it up (of course when asked to give examples, it's

hard

> for me to think of them!!).....

>

> When I was very young, she was the complete authority -- and had no

> problem getting angry and showing a temper. Also, I remember her

> sleeping in and letting me just wander around the house, then me

> getting in trouble for getting into things in the refrigerator.

>

> Her general, daily attitude wasn't one of forgiveness toward a

> child -- she didn't have a mindset that children make mistakes and

> get into mischief, so, her emotions were the only thing that

> dictated how she reacted to our childhood behavior. Instead of

> learning life lessons, we learned quickly to fear her angry,

> outbursts. Sometimes rage. Sometimes long tirades and lectures.

I

> think she was addicted to that feeling of power that uncontained

> rage brings. She was in total control -- there was no one to stop

> her. That must have felt good to her. My little brother and I,

> unfortunately, paid the price for it.

>

> She would sleep late in the morning when my brother and I were in

> elementary school. I naturally assumed the role of helping us get

> ready and out the door to the bus stop. I shouldn't have been

doing

> that -- she was just sleeping in. There was no sense of optimism

> about the morning -- there was no " Let's go out there and greet the

> day! " positive messages in word or deed. We learned that we

weren't

> important enough to her to send into the world with a smile and a

> warm belly.

>

> And on the days when she would get up while we were getting ready?

> We would hear her coughing into the sink (heavy smoker) in the

> bathroom, and both look at each other like " OH NO! She's up! "

> because she would nitpick at us and find things wrong with what we

> were doing. And sometimes she would get up with us, but I don't

> remember it as necessarily pleasant.. I'm just saying that the

> prevailing memory is the one where she either slept in, or got up

> and yelled at us.

>

> Then as I got older, if I showed any individuality that sparked her

> jealousy (I see it NOW, back then I just thought I was wrong all

the

> time), she would either make fun of me, criticize, or verbally

knock

> me down. As I grew into an attractive young lady -- some said I

was

> very pretty -- I think it threatened her, and she watched me like a

> hawk. She didn't like that I was forming friendships and alliances

> that threatened her status as #1 influence in my life. In essence,

> a life without her.

>

> She had nothing to do with me in school -- bitched when it was time

> to buy us clothes -- bitched when it was time to go to the store to

> buy food, then didn't buy enough to feed two teenagers -- had no

> problem criticizing my friends or, later, boyfriends. She didn't

> ask me if my clothes were getting too tight (growing was beyond my

> control!) and did I need anything. I was assigned the same clothes

> that I got at the beginning of school and that was about it. All

of

> this tends to make one think they're a nuisance. That's how I

felt.

>

> She got a reputation with my friends as difficult. I found out

> later that one mom didn't want her daughter to invite me to a week

> at the lake because she didn't want to deal with my mother. That

> hurt. I was ashamed..

>

> My mother always was quick to call people " white trash " or trash,

> and she wasn't exactly Jackie Kennedy. She smoked, cussed, drank

> (oh, I shudder to be around her when she drank), didn't care about

> fashion, etc. Very judgemental of others -- negatively, of course.

>

> She was tight with money. Didn't bother to try to cultivate SOME

> sort of relationship with me as I became a teen and young adult. I

> think she just wanted to be done with raising me. I remember that

a

> friend got married really young -- 20 years old. I was in the

> wedding. I thought mom and I were going to attend the wedding

> together. Although, after agreeing she'd go, as the weeks went by,

> she never mentioned it again. When it came time, she said " I'm not

> going. " Just like that. Just dumped the plans like they were a

> nuisance.

>

> When we got a graduation announcement from a friend, I said " Can we

> send her some money? " , and mom's sarcastic reply " She's YOUR

friend -

> - not mine. "

>

> All of that adds up to someone who's not exactly wanting to build

an

> alliance with me. Cold. Moody. Negative. Then, needy. Asking

> where I've been -- " Why can't you drop your plans, I'm your

MOTHER! "

> (expecting special treatment -- feeling that she's entitled to know

> all my business, and is worthy of my shoving my plans aside.)

>

> When my boyfriend asked me to marry him, he approached my dad and

> told him afterward. My dad's reply? " Don't say anything -- it'll

> upset her mother. "

>

> Getting a picture of how I ranked in the family? We sat and

watched

> TV when we should have been popping open a champagne bottle -- ALL

> for HER. In my family, ABOVE ALL, her infantile emotional state

> came FIRST. Me getting married and bringing another family into

the

> fold was a nuisance to be batted away. My mother rejected my new

in-

> laws, saying " I don't have anything in common with those people. "

> (How ironic -- she's saying that to ME. One of the things she DOES

> have in common with them!!!)

>

> My feelings were not important..

>

> Hopefully, those little snippets from my life give you some idea as

> to the mindset I grew up under, and why I couldn't wait to leave

> home. I physically left home at 18 -- but I didn't emotionally

> leave home until I was 43. Thanks in large part, to this board.

>

> Hope that helps -- Sorry so long! Felt good to get all that out.

> I'd love to read others, if anyone wants to share.

>

> -Kyla

>

__._,_..___

Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

Messages

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

MARKETPLACE

Earn your degree in as few as 2 years - Advance your career with an AS, BS, MS

degree - College-Finder.net.

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)

Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to

Traditional

Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity

25New Members

Visit Your Group

Healthy Eating

Find Yahoo! Groups

that are focused

on healthy eating./>

Yahoo! Health

Looking for Love?

Find relationship

advice and answers.

HDTV Support

on Yahoo! Groups

Help with Samsung

HDTVs and devices

..

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

Mia -- I didn't even mention the horrible things your sisters

endured by your dad's evil actions, and your mother's equally evil

actions in being his accomplice, and victimizing your sisters even

further. I can only imagine how you all were victims at the hands

of these people who don't deserve the term " parents " . They were

perpetrators. I hope that since you didn't mention them in your

post, that means you don't have anything to do with them anymore.

It's no wonder you're feeling depressed -- you're probably suffering

a little post-traumatic stress -- but you're not destined to suffer

from that your whole life. Not if you get your feelings out with

some therapy and some soul searching. These feelings need to come

out -- maybe you could start journaling and just pour them out on

paper so they can be dumped out and released.

Unfortunately, you can't change what your parents did. But you can

change the family history as you go forward. You can break the

cycle and bless your kids with a great childhood. And you deserve

not to be bound by the bonds of depression -- if you get some good

therapy, you can lift yourself up and out of it, and get out and

live. Leave your sick parents in the dustbin of history. The

future is YOURS now.

{hugs}

Kyla

[Guest guest]

Hi Mia,

When you are depressed, certainly anti-depressants can

help, but it might also be useful for you to be

talking to a therapist. That also could give you an

outlet for some of your frustration, which might make

it easier to be around people (including your kids).

It's very difficult to make positive changes in your

life when you are depressed so please don't feel bad

about that right now.

The difference between you and someone with BPD is

that they would claim that they are still a good

mother right now and always, regardless of the BPD

person's actions. If you want to get better then you

can, although that will be extremely difficult while

you are depressed. It's good that you recognize you

are in a tough phase and not taking out your anger on

everyone around you.

is

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

Wow, you all have made me feel so much better, what a great bunch of

women we have here on this site!! I thought I would get reamed

literally!! I'm glad that you all have so much compassion in your

hearts. And I am very glad that you all don't think I have BPD. That

is HUGE relief for me. I was so worried that my children would hate

me when they grow up, the same way that all 4 of my mother daughter's

hate her so much. I don't want that to happen to me or my kids.

Anyway, I have been in therapy for YEARS. Yes, you are all right,

it's a HUGE benefit to help deal with the past and the future. I love

therapy, but I was having some real issues with finding childcare

while I go to therapy. Taking my kids to therapy was not working out,

and everytime I would find someone willing to watch my kids for an

hour, then they would quit on me, or they weren't reliable. So I had

to quit therapy last May. I miss it so much. Also, it is VERY VERY

DIFFICULT for me to trust just anyone to watch my kids. After the

incest in my family from both my real father and my step father, I am

very afraid of anyone watching my children that I do not know very

well and trust with all my heart. My husband tried really hard to be

there for me to watch the kids so that I could continue to go to my

weekly therapy sessions, but he is in the military and he is in the

nuclear field, so he works very long hours, and is gone for about 48

hours straight every 3 or 4 days, then he goes out to sea here and

there, and basically he lives at work, I'm serious, I hardly ever see

him. And that doesn't help with my severe depression, not having him

here, really makes things that much more difficult, but that is out

of my control.

I want to say so much more to each and every one of you, I have so

much to ask you and to tell you and to learn, but I am in a huge

hurry to get out of here, I have an appointment to go to. I really

will try very hard to write more later.

Love you all,

Mia

>

> Hi Mia,

>

> When you are depressed, certainly anti-depressants can

> help, but it might also be useful for you to be

> talking to a therapist. That also could give you an

> outlet for some of your frustration, which might make

> it easier to be around people (including your kids).

> It's very difficult to make positive changes in your

> life when you are depressed so please don't feel bad

> about that right now.

>

> The difference between you and someone with BPD is

> that they would claim that they are still a good

> mother right now and always, regardless of the BPD

> person's actions. If you want to get better then you

> can, although that will be extremely difficult while

> you are depressed. It's good that you recognize you

> are in a tough phase and not taking out your anger on

> everyone around you.

>

> is

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mia,

I know your kids will be understanding of your struggles and pain.. Especially

because you are sincere and willing to admit your struggles. I think the hatred

and resentment come when people try to make excuses and blame others for their

behavior.

AZClown

Re: The 5 Stages Of Grief.....Long Post!..

Wow, you all have made me feel so much better, what a great bunch of

women we have here on this site!! I thought I would get reamed

literally!! I'm glad that you all have so much compassion in your

hearts. And I am very glad that you all don't think I have BPD. That

is HUGE relief for me. I was so worried that my children would hate

me when they grow up, the same way that all 4 of my mother daughter's

hate her so much. I don't want that to happen to me or my kids.

Anyway, I have been in therapy for YEARS. Yes, you are all right,

it's a HUGE benefit to help deal with the past and the future. I love

therapy, but I was having some real issues with finding childcare

while I go to therapy. Taking my kids to therapy was not working out,

and everytime I would find someone willing to watch my kids for an

hour, then they would quit on me, or they weren't reliable. So I had

to quit therapy last May. I miss it so much. Also, it is VERY VERY

DIFFICULT for me to trust just anyone to watch my kids. After the

incest in my family from both my real father and my step father, I am

very afraid of anyone watching my children that I do not know very

well and trust with all my heart. My husband tried really hard to be

there for me to watch the kids so that I could continue to go to my

weekly therapy sessions, but he is in the military and he is in the

nuclear field, so he works very long hours, and is gone for about 48

hours straight every 3 or 4 days, then he goes out to sea here and

there, and basically he lives at work, I'm serious, I hardly ever see

him. And that doesn't help with my severe depression, not having him

here, really makes things that much more difficult, but that is out

of my control.

I want to say so much more to each and every one of you, I have so

much to ask you and to tell you and to learn, but I am in a huge

hurry to get out of here, I have an appointment to go to. I really

will try very hard to write more later.

Love you all,

Mia

>

> Hi Mia,

>

> When you are depressed, certainly anti-depressants can

> help, but it might also be useful for you to be

> talking to a therapist. That also could give you an

> outlet for some of your frustration, which might make

> it easier to be around people (including your kids).

> It's very difficult to make positive changes in your

> life when you are depressed so please don't feel bad

> about that right now.

>

> The difference between you and someone with BPD is

> that they would claim that they are still a good

> mother right now and always, regardless of the BPD

> person's actions. If you want to get better then you

> can, although that will be extremely difficult while

> you are depressed. It's good that you recognize you

> are in a tough phase and not taking out your anger on

> everyone around you.

>

> is

>

>

>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

____________ __

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

Mia,

I am a BP child of a BP mother of a BP mother (from what I heard of

my gmother) of a BP mother (from what I heard about the beatings &

rages my gmother endured at the hands of her mother). I also have a

BP brother & my dad & his family aren't wound too tight either. My

daughter has tendencies towards BP as well - abandonment issues,

occasional rages - but has had therapy during a few periods which

helped tremendously given she's young enough a lot of it hasn't taken

root. I'm the only one in the family with a diagnosis; I feel

fortunate in that this also makes me the only one treated in any

systematic way.

I can only relate my own experience - but basically it takes a lot of

vigilance, even now, to manage my BP tendencies. My diagnosis &

treatment was just under 20 years ago. A lot of my thoughts,

desires, and emotions are fleas to be sure, but some aren't. For

example, left to my own devices, I would prefer to never leave my

home again with just a dog or 2 for company. I could read, watch the

History Channel, eat, surf the net, do whatever with no obligation

toward anyone from now until the day I die. But insight tells me I

want lots of things that aren't good for me so I exercise the self

control to not live like that, to stay connected to other people

even when it's hard.

More details of my experience & treatment are posted under the

title " Newbie just divorced nada " if you're interested.

Like you, many women with small children at demanding ages have

depression - it's a big job, exhausting and yet rewarding, and

sometimes you just run out of " juice " meeting their needs. So cut

yourself some slack in this department and do take care to get your

own needs met. You don't have to be a perfect mother or caregiver;

it's no crime to be " good enough " & it's okay to rely on Totino's &

Easy Mac! Just put carrot sticks on the side!!

The fact you think your kids believe they're not important to you

does however point to a need to make changes now rather than later.

I viewed your post as a sort of cry for help / reality check - and I

think the reality is, BP or not, you're in some sort of psychological

distress that could affect your children if left to fester.

Meds are a great start. And therapy too. You can make some changes

alone but it will take a lot longer & will seem a steeper climb

without competent professional help. The real difference between my

FOO & me is that even though I had many of the same problems as they,

I took action. You can too.

Even now I work hard at managing my own sometimes unrealistic

expectations of others, especially of others in my own family. I

don't know why I want to turn on them first when I'm under stress, I

only know that it's not right and that if I am unable to stop what

I'm doing in any given moment then I'd better be ready to take

responsibility for it (not blame them) and make a sincere apology as

soon as it blows over. They're just feelings, not facts, and

they pass.

Owning my own behavior is really important to my staying on an even

keel - and something positive you're doing right now even if it

doesn't seem like it. When you own what you do you're not a helpless

victim and you'll work that much harder at change. I know I do -

after all, if it's mine, who can do it for me? Beyond behaviors,

it's also important to own feelings. In the post-mortem of a less

than stellar moment I can usually identify a better way to have

handled my emotions and use that knowledge next time.

If there's one mistake I made, it was that in the cause of managing

my own BP I didn't notice a lot of what nada was doing to ME. I took

the rap for EVERYTHING. Since I've been NC a couple of months now I

can see more clearly which feelings & behaviors are mine and

sometimes that's scary - I wonder how much better I really am. But

then I read things on this board that tell me there's more than a

little bit of the apple not falling far from the tree around these

parts. That's no slur on anyone - we can't help our genes, which I

think control a lot more of this that we give credit to - but we

wouldn't be here if we weren't enlightened on some level. Once

again, it's what we do about our feelings & behaviors that makes the

difference.

I needed a lot of structure - scheduled mealtimes, bedtime etc. and

in fact with our tendencies (my daughter, her boys & I live

together), life at our house is a lot smoother when we have

predictability. I find I can control a lot of my thinking by

changing my outside behaviors. Structure on the outside

unclutters a lot of my thinking on the inside and makes it more

possible to work through my problems & with less stress, to be more

in control of myself.

I care for my grandsons (ages 1 & 4) evenings while my daughter

attends college. For me, what makes it difficult are the constant

toy sounds & general disorder, questions, chatter, noise, and of

course, needs - I feel overstimulated & wiped out which makes me more

prone to problem behaviors - I just want to get away from it all! So

noisy toys are in the bedroom only & if I'm really stressing,

everyone including me goes to bed a 1/2 hour early. Not a perfect

solution, but one that keeps our family sane & whole.

Make a change - any change - & see what happens. Try turning off

your computer for a day, or restrict it to certain hours only. Doing

quiet things with your kids (such as reading, coloring, or age

appropriate games) will give them something positive without

overloading you. Go for a walk, like (I think it was) Kyla

recommended. Do an art & crafts project (but only if you can deal

with the mess - my daughter can, I CAN'T!) When you feel mounting

anxiety remember to breathe, relax, and know they depend on you and

even worship you - work to be worthy of their love, try to see

yourself reflected in their eyes.

Since you mentioned problems with alcohol, I also want to plug

Rational Recovery, an alternative to 12-step programs. It's based on

Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy & IMHO a much healthier model for

sobriety. Their website is http://www.rational.org/

Take care of yourself & your kids. Love yourself & remember we are

all works in progress.

[Guest guest]

Hey mia --

Glad we could help!

I was thinking about you all day today, and wanted to chime in about

your interactions with your kids. You know, when they're that

young, it's the littlest things that delight them. A kind word from

you, a big smile of delight from you letting them know you're

pleased with them or something they've done -- the list is endless --

The simplest things can be made fun for kids that age. Even some

fresh fruit and a can of whipped cream can make dessert time fun!

Silly face contest, drive to a park and take a walk, etc. They just

want YOU. They want you to make eye contact with them and reflect

how wonderful they are.

I sometimes imagine what my kids would say at my funeral. Sometimes

that keeps me on the right track. I know they're young and the days

stretch out endlessly before you. I've been there -- and it DOES

pass. Time does go by and they get older and start becoming less a

part of you and more a part of the world. Enjoy them while they're

all yours. You'll start to learn what makes them " tick " -- you'll

get better at it. Motherhood is like anything else: once you

decide to get to know it better, you'll get better at it.

-Kyla