Fixating on an ex/Separating from fada

[Guest guest]

So. I've been doing this thing where I go back to exes/friends I've

kinda not seen or ended things on a weird note.

It's been really healing. I never saw a point to doing this in the

past, but now that I'm in therapy, I have more psychological

resources. It's easier for me to be vulnerable and apologize for some

of my behavior without caring how people will react. So that's been

great.

Now, I've kind of whittled my list down to my high school love/former

best friend. We ended things on such an awful note, and I was so

upset at him for not being my friend after we broke up. He just

really put this enormous barrier up, and it felt like I had disappeared.

Having been raised in a low-nurturance environment, there were so many

things about this relationship I wasn't ready for. My boyfriend was

exceedingly warm and nurturing (he had to be for a someone like me to

even trust someone after all the awfulness of a bp household).

He was like my main friend in high school, and to this day I miss him.

I couldn't handle having significant contact with him after the

break-up because 1) he didn't really contact me the way he used to 2)

when he did I was always so upset we weren't friends anymore that I

would be really bitter.

So I've decided to make him a side visit while visiting a relative

next weekend. Ten year reunion.

This upcoming visit is bringing up all kinds of feelings. It's like I

idealize him, but I think part of that is because he rejected me, and

his wall is up so much.

I think this rejection feels familiar to me because it reminds me of

my father, so it's as if I long for my ex to make up for all the love

I never got as a kid.

Try as I might, I can't stop longing for my ex. I really did love

him. He was such an awesome person. I wish I could just put myself

out there and write and contact him like I used to.

I desperately miss him.

The fact my feelings are a little out of proportion for the situation

make me take pause though. I want to process this before I do any

more contacting. I have the date set up, so anything I say I can say

in person. But it just feels like seeing him again is stirring up all

the old longing.

Anyone have issues of fixation like this? I think because my wounds

are so big, I long that there can be a perfect person who can fill

them. This makes me blind to seeing people more realistically. Maybe

my ex did have really wonderful parts, but I think the scared lonely

kid in me is idealizing them to make me believe there is someone out

there who could really take the place of my father, which I don't

believe is true.

I think people are people and I think this subconscious longing and

idealization is a way of short-cutting my grief.

Any thoughts? Any other relationship advice of how being raised by a

BP affects our ability to be with others?

Thanks,

G.

[Guest guest]

Hi G...

It might be wise to give it some more reflection, or even discuss it

with your therapist before you really contact this guy. What is it,

exactly, that you are hoping for from the " reunion " ?

I know I've done things like that before...usually because I feel

such anguish when a relationship ends badly. Eventually, I like to

just put it to rest and have it be peaceful, with apologies said and

done.

I do have one guy from my past, though... I dated him off and on

from the time I was 14 until I was 28. For 14 years I kept going

back to him, seeking him out...he was my " one " , but he wasn't...if

that makes any sense. When we were in high school, we had a lot of

shared passions and ideals...that changed in college and in our post

college years we couldn't even agree on pizza toppings (he's a

vegetarian, I don't eat vegetables!) let alone anything important. I

held, on though, and none of my friends (or I!) could figure out why

I would decided to look him up, contact him, and then end up back

together with him in some way...even if that " some way " went against

all my professed beliefs and morals. I'm ashamed to admit it, but

even though I know he's now MARRIED I've wanted to get back together

with him. I'm entirely ashamed of that. I wouldn't actually do

that, but the fact that I even would think about it freaks me out.

It's only recently, though, that I'm starting to understand the years

of obsessing over him so much and my willingness to get involved with

him over and over again, even though I know there is no stable future

in it. A large part of that has to do with coming to grips with the

reality of my childhood with a uBPD mother. As my own therapist (and

books and reading the emails on this list) helps me to sort through

things, I'm recognizing not only patterns of my own behaviours, but

the reasons why those patterns are there. One of my own patterns is

to try and find someone to " defend " me, so to speak, since my father

and brother rarely, if ever, have. Someone to stand up and say " No,

she can't treat you that way. It's not right. " This guy...he did

that. He never fell for her bs, he always saw through the games and

he always took my side in a way that made me feel cherished and

protected...even if other things with him did NOT, he made me feel

protected from HER. She HATED him...always has, always will. It

always set her off when she knew I was in contact with him...and I'm

sure that for me this was part of his allure.

So now, with a little more clarity in my brain, I can look back over

the relationship with him and realize that pretty much every time we

reconnected, it was because I NEEDED that " protection " from him in

some way. And, I was willing to sacrifice other things...things that

were important to me...for that protection. It was worth it to me

then.

I still...at 34...struggle sometimes with wanting to have him back in

my life, even if it's " just as friends " . But, really, he and I have

nearly nothing in common in lifestyles, beliefs, activities...we just

have this connection and past that we share, one that is based on

meeting our own needs with each other. So when I struggle with that,

I remind myself to look at the other relationships in my life and

remind myself that those emotional needs can be...and are being...met

in healthier, more appropriate relationships. I am incredibly

blessed with a network of supportive friends who are willing to stand

up and say " No, your mother is not right. She does not get to treat

you that way. " Not that they necessarily say that to her (they

aren't in contact with her, obviously)...but they say it to ME, and

that's what I need.

So, just take some time to really review why you think you want to

reconnect with him. Is it for closure? Is it because you have

emotional needs that he has met in the past and you want him to meet

those again? Are you sure that asking HIM...as opposed to other

people in your life...is the best way to do that? What happens if he

cannot meet those expectations? Is it really HIM...as the whole of

who he is that you miss? Or do you miss the nurturing that he used

to give you? ARe you hoping to " go back " to the previous

relationship? Is that truly possible? You're the only one who can

answer those questions for yourself.

T

>

> So. I've been doing this thing where I go back to exes/friends I've

> kinda not seen or ended things on a weird note.

>

> It's been really healing. I never saw a point to doing this in the

> past, but now that I'm in therapy, I have more psychological

> resources. It's easier for me to be vulnerable and apologize for

some

> of my behavior without caring how people will react. So that's been

> great.

>

> Now, I've kind of whittled my list down to my high school

love/former

> best friend. We ended things on such an awful note, and I was so

> upset at him for not being my friend after we broke up. He just

> really put this enormous barrier up, and it felt like I had

disappeared.

>

> Having been raised in a low-nurturance environment, there were so

many

> things about this relationship I wasn't ready for. My boyfriend was

> exceedingly warm and nurturing (he had to be for a someone like me

to

> even trust someone after all the awfulness of a bp household).

>

> He was like my main friend in high school, and to this day I miss

him.

> I couldn't handle having significant contact with him after the

> break-up because 1) he didn't really contact me the way he used to

2)

> when he did I was always so upset we weren't friends anymore that I

> would be really bitter.

>

> So I've decided to make him a side visit while visiting a relative

> next weekend. Ten year reunion.

>

> This upcoming visit is bringing up all kinds of feelings. It's

like I

> idealize him, but I think part of that is because he rejected me,

and

> his wall is up so much.

>

> I think this rejection feels familiar to me because it reminds me of

> my father, so it's as if I long for my ex to make up for all the

love

> I never got as a kid.

>

> Try as I might, I can't stop longing for my ex. I really did love

> him. He was such an awesome person. I wish I could just put myself

> out there and write and contact him like I used to.

>

> I desperately miss him.

>

> The fact my feelings are a little out of proportion for the

situation

> make me take pause though. I want to process this before I do any

> more contacting. I have the date set up, so anything I say I can

say

> in person. But it just feels like seeing him again is stirring up

all

> the old longing.

>

> Anyone have issues of fixation like this? I think because my wounds

> are so big, I long that there can be a perfect person who can fill

> them. This makes me blind to seeing people more realistically.

Maybe

> my ex did have really wonderful parts, but I think the scared lonely

> kid in me is idealizing them to make me believe there is someone out

> there who could really take the place of my father, which I don't

> believe is true.

>

> I think people are people and I think this subconscious longing and

> idealization is a way of short-cutting my grief.

>

> Any thoughts? Any other relationship advice of how being raised by

a

> BP affects our ability to be with others?

>

> Thanks,

> G.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Genevieve,

I've been meaning to respond to several of your posts recently--it can just be

so hard to keep up with this board!

First of all, in response to your earlier posts, I too came to terms with the

fact that nada was a BP when I was in grad school. That age frame (I was 24

when I began my program) is a strange transition point between college and

adulthood. You finally begin to grasp what the repercussions of your childhood

were and are no longer drunk, partying and irresponsible all the time. My grad

program was very challenging and throughout the first year, I was way too busy

to be social (I had discovered this website by then though and SWOE so I was on

my way in terms of dealing with my recent revelations abotu nada). My second

year was less difficult though and I my grief for the loss of my idealized nada

grew more intense. I also felt incredibly lonely when I had nights to myself (I

relish them now!) as I think the grief process was marked by lurking ghosts of

nada past (and my past/ potential selves)--it's easier to stay distracted than

to start dealing with the painful

process of recovering from childhood wounds.

In response to this particular post, I also have an ex who I have fetishized

over the years. He was the first real love of my life, we were together for

most of college and a bit after and he was the first person I'd ever really

trusted, loved and opened up to. He helped me discover all the little booby

traps in my personality planted by nada (aka: fleas!) and I became a much

better, happier person throughout the course of our relationship. Our break up

was due to distance (he was a year behind me in school) but we have had a very

intense relationship since, often assuming we'd get back together once we'd

lived our twenties and sowed our oats (we're both probably a bit too pragmatic,

that's what you get with two philosophy majors!). I've since fallen in love

with another man and am very, very happy and feel that I've officially moved on

but it was only through this newfound love that I was able to finally let go of

my ex (and he still rears his head, mentally, when

I'm frustrated with my current boyfriend!)

I liked your idea that clinging to your ex was shortcutting your grief. I

don't know if it's that simple, it just sounds like he was a very important

person in your history, a marking point on your personal timeline, and that you

miss his friendship as much as anything else. I think that's natural for

anyone, not just us KOs, to mourn the loss of a great ex. It is just harder for

us since we posit so much love and faith into our chosen family feeling that our

own has failed us-

I think you should see him. It could be very helpful in terms of you closing

the chapter on the extent to which you've idealized him. Not that you want him

to disappoint you but it's always helpful to see that someone you've made into a

demi-god in your head is actually just another mortal with faults and failures

of their own.

It sounds like you are going on a very natural 1/4 life journey of healing and

attempting to understand and come to terms with your past. It's very healthy,

keep airing our your brain! The more fresh air you have in there mingling with

your thoughts, the easier and sunnier the recovery process will be-

Let us know how it goes!

genevieveheller wrote:

So. I've been doing this thing where I go back to exes/friends I've

kinda not seen or ended things on a weird note.

It's been really healing. I never saw a point to doing this in the

past, but now that I'm in therapy, I have more psychological

resources. It's easier for me to be vulnerable and apologize for some

of my behavior without caring how people will react. So that's been

great.

Now, I've kind of whittled my list down to my high school love/former

best friend. We ended things on such an awful note, and I was so

upset at him for not being my friend after we broke up. He just

really put this enormous barrier up, and it felt like I had disappeared.

Having been raised in a low-nurturance environment, there were so many

things about this relationship I wasn't ready for. My boyfriend was

exceedingly warm and nurturing (he had to be for a someone like me to

even trust someone after all the awfulness of a bp household).

He was like my main friend in high school, and to this day I miss him.

I couldn't handle having significant contact with him after the

break-up because 1) he didn't really contact me the way he used to 2)

when he did I was always so upset we weren't friends anymore that I

would be really bitter.

So I've decided to make him a side visit while visiting a relative

next weekend. Ten year reunion.

This upcoming visit is bringing up all kinds of feelings. It's like I

idealize him, but I think part of that is because he rejected me, and

his wall is up so much.

I think this rejection feels familiar to me because it reminds me of

my father, so it's as if I long for my ex to make up for all the love

I never got as a kid.

Try as I might, I can't stop longing for my ex. I really did love

him. He was such an awesome person. I wish I could just put myself

out there and write and contact him like I used to.

I desperately miss him.

The fact my feelings are a little out of proportion for the situation

make me take pause though. I want to process this before I do any

more contacting. I have the date set up, so anything I say I can say

in person. But it just feels like seeing him again is stirring up all

the old longing.

Anyone have issues of fixation like this? I think because my wounds

are so big, I long that there can be a perfect person who can fill

them. This makes me blind to seeing people more realistically. Maybe

my ex did have really wonderful parts, but I think the scared lonely

kid in me is idealizing them to make me believe there is someone out

there who could really take the place of my father, which I don't

believe is true.

I think people are people and I think this subconscious longing and

idealization is a way of short-cutting my grief.

Any thoughts? Any other relationship advice of how being raised by a

BP affects our ability to be with others?

Thanks,

G.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Genevieve,

I can relate, but I think I'll need a little time to generate a good

response. I'll try to get back to this in the next day or two =)

[Guest guest]

I too have been going through this. My ex from college, the one love of my

life, who I

haven't been with for 8 years, just can't get him out of my mind. I have dated

many men

since and no one compares.

We connected on a level that I had never and have since not had with anyone. I

believe

that his mother was also BPD (she is since deceased) and between her and my own

Nada,

the deck was stacked against us so to speak.

We e-mail every couple of years, and we have only gotten together in person 2x

since we

broke up. Both times were very confusing because it was as if no time had

passed when

in fact it had been years.

Both times were lunch dates that turned into dinner.

Well we are currently e-mailing again, but he is engaged to be married. He

always says

how much he misses me, and what we had together when we do e-mail and it is very

confusing to me that he would say that when he is engaged to be married.

His favorite line is that he wishes he had a rewind button so he could go back

in time to

when we were together and do it right.

He has asked to meet me for lunch and I am very confused, so while I have no

advice, I do

understand what you are going through.

I so much want to have him back, he loved me for me, he showed me how ridicuioul

my

mother behaved toward me and even got rid of some of my fleas. I credit him

that I did

not turn BPD.

It was the happiest time in my life and I have always felt that something is

missing since

we broke up.

I hope you get what you need from seeing him. The only advice I can give is to

say

everything you feel you need to. That is what I am going to do this time.

Good Luck and I look forward to hearing how it goes.

L

[Guest guest]

Great answer!

tbronwynl wrote: Hi G...

It might be wise to give it some more reflection, or even discuss it

with your therapist before you really contact this guy. What is it,

exactly, that you are hoping for from the " reunion " ?

I know I've done things like that before...usually because I feel

such anguish when a relationship ends badly. Eventually, I like to

just put it to rest and have it be peaceful, with apologies said and

done.

I do have one guy from my past, though... I dated him off and on

from the time I was 14 until I was 28. For 14 years I kept going

back to him, seeking him out...he was my " one " , but he wasn't...if

that makes any sense. When we were in high school, we had a lot of

shared passions and ideals...that changed in college and in our post

college years we couldn't even agree on pizza toppings (he's a

vegetarian, I don't eat vegetables!) let alone anything important. I

held, on though, and none of my friends (or I!) could figure out why

I would decided to look him up, contact him, and then end up back

together with him in some way...even if that " some way " went against

all my professed beliefs and morals. I'm ashamed to admit it, but

even though I know he's now MARRIED I've wanted to get back together

with him. I'm entirely ashamed of that. I wouldn't actually do

that, but the fact that I even would think about it freaks me out.

It's only recently, though, that I'm starting to understand the years

of obsessing over him so much and my willingness to get involved with

him over and over again, even though I know there is no stable future

in it. A large part of that has to do with coming to grips with the

reality of my childhood with a uBPD mother. As my own therapist (and

books and reading the emails on this list) helps me to sort through

things, I'm recognizing not only patterns of my own behaviours, but

the reasons why those patterns are there. One of my own patterns is

to try and find someone to " defend " me, so to speak, since my father

and brother rarely, if ever, have. Someone to stand up and say " No,

she can't treat you that way. It's not right. " This guy...he did

that. He never fell for her bs, he always saw through the games and

he always took my side in a way that made me feel cherished and

protected...even if other things with him did NOT, he made me feel

protected from HER. She HATED him...always has, always will. It

always set her off when she knew I was in contact with him...and I'm

sure that for me this was part of his allure.

So now, with a little more clarity in my brain, I can look back over

the relationship with him and realize that pretty much every time we

reconnected, it was because I NEEDED that " protection " from him in

some way. And, I was willing to sacrifice other things...things that

were important to me...for that protection. It was worth it to me

then.

I still...at 34...struggle sometimes with wanting to have him back in

my life, even if it's " just as friends " . But, really, he and I have

nearly nothing in common in lifestyles, beliefs, activities...we just

have this connection and past that we share, one that is based on

meeting our own needs with each other. So when I struggle with that,

I remind myself to look at the other relationships in my life and

remind myself that those emotional needs can be...and are being...met

in healthier, more appropriate relationships. I am incredibly

blessed with a network of supportive friends who are willing to stand

up and say " No, your mother is not right. She does not get to treat

you that way. " Not that they necessarily say that to her (they

aren't in contact with her, obviously)...but they say it to ME, and

that's what I need.

So, just take some time to really review why you think you want to

reconnect with him. Is it for closure? Is it because you have

emotional needs that he has met in the past and you want him to meet

those again? Are you sure that asking HIM...as opposed to other

people in your life...is the best way to do that? What happens if he

cannot meet those expectations? Is it really HIM...as the whole of

who he is that you miss? Or do you miss the nurturing that he used

to give you? ARe you hoping to " go back " to the previous

relationship? Is that truly possible? You're the only one who can

answer those questions for yourself.

T

>

> So. I've been doing this thing where I go back to exes/friends I've

> kinda not seen or ended things on a weird note.

>

> It's been really healing. I never saw a point to doing this in the

> past, but now that I'm in therapy, I have more psychological

> resources. It's easier for me to be vulnerable and apologize for

some

> of my behavior without caring how people will react. So that's been

> great.

>

> Now, I've kind of whittled my list down to my high school

love/former

> best friend. We ended things on such an awful note, and I was so

> upset at him for not being my friend after we broke up. He just

> really put this enormous barrier up, and it felt like I had

disappeared.

>

> Having been raised in a low-nurturance environment, there were so

many

> things about this relationship I wasn't ready for. My boyfriend was

> exceedingly warm and nurturing (he had to be for a someone like me

to

> even trust someone after all the awfulness of a bp household).

>

> He was like my main friend in high school, and to this day I miss

him.

> I couldn't handle having significant contact with him after the

> break-up because 1) he didn't really contact me the way he used to

2)

> when he did I was always so upset we weren't friends anymore that I

> would be really bitter.

>

> So I've decided to make him a side visit while visiting a relative

> next weekend. Ten year reunion.

>

> This upcoming visit is bringing up all kinds of feelings. It's

like I

> idealize him, but I think part of that is because he rejected me,

and

> his wall is up so much.

>

> I think this rejection feels familiar to me because it reminds me of

> my father, so it's as if I long for my ex to make up for all the

love

> I never got as a kid.

>

> Try as I might, I can't stop longing for my ex. I really did love

> him. He was such an awesome person. I wish I could just put myself

> out there and write and contact him like I used to.

>

> I desperately miss him.

>

> The fact my feelings are a little out of proportion for the

situation

> make me take pause though. I want to process this before I do any

> more contacting. I have the date set up, so anything I say I can

say

> in person. But it just feels like seeing him again is stirring up

all

> the old longing.

>

> Anyone have issues of fixation like this? I think because my wounds

> are so big, I long that there can be a perfect person who can fill

> them. This makes me blind to seeing people more realistically.

Maybe

> my ex did have really wonderful parts, but I think the scared lonely

> kid in me is idealizing them to make me believe there is someone out

> there who could really take the place of my father, which I don't

> believe is true.

>

> I think people are people and I think this subconscious longing and

> idealization is a way of short-cutting my grief.

>

> Any thoughts? Any other relationship advice of how being raised by

a

> BP affects our ability to be with others?

>

> Thanks,

> G.

>

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Okay, I have a little more time now.

I think it is great that you are finding some healing in your older

relationships. It seems like this high school boyfriend is different

for you, though, and also that you have really thought a lot about

why that might be.

I met my husband in college. We dated for about a semester and a

half before he graduated and went to graduate school 3.5 hours away.

We continued dating and ended up getting married a year and a half

later. We have always been very happy together, with the exception

of one little (BIG) issue.

There was a man in my college class that I had been attracted to

before meeting my husband. We were good friends and had lots of the

same interests. Because our university was small, we were frequently

in classes together. Stronger people would probably not have had as

big of a problem, but especially after my dh graduated, I really had

trouble trying not to flirt with this other man or think about him

romantically, and I felt a lot of guilt about that. I continued to

think of him often and miss the connection I had felt with him. I

imagined that I had hurt him a great deal (this may in fact have been

the case, he did tell me that he had been attracted to me also) when

I left, and fantasized often about trying to apologize for that or

just go back and do things differently.

He came to visit us recently (he had been friends with my husband as

well), and it just sent me over the edge. Seeing him really triggered

a lot of things, and my therapist has helped me work on a lot of

them, but I'm still a work in progress. I have realized that when my

dh graduated, I really felt abandoned and latched on to this other

man emotionally to protect myself. Throughout my life there has

always been SOMEone I have fixated on in fantasy, whom I have made my

hero and rescuer, who I imagine loves me completely and fully and

perfectly. I realized that I thought about this other man most often

when I was feeling abandoned or let down by my dh. I was trying to

avoid feeling hurt by pretending there was an ideal.

Having discovered so much about BPD, I see why that was a useful

survival skill for me psychologically, and I can tell that it's

really never been so much about this other person (though he truly is

a wonderful human being) as it has been about my own unmet

psychological needs (i.e.,I wanted my own father to be a hero to me

and defend me from my mother, but since he wouldn't, I created my own

heroes and idyllic fantasy relationships). I've been learning skills

to help me take care of those needs on my own, and have been working

on communicating in my marriage instead of avoiding conflict, and the

problem has virtually disappeared. I see it differently now. I love

myself better and don't need to fixate on creating pseudo-parents for

myself.

So, that's my story. From reading your post, Genevieve, it sounds

like you really have a good understanding of what might be going on.

I know you will have discussed it with your therapist also. I wish

you all the best in your meeting with your ex. But be prepared, it

is quite possible that seeing him in person will really intensify all

those happy memories of attraction and love. It's common for anybody

who sees an " old flame " to feel those things again. I don't have

great advice on how to handle it yet, just have your boundaries in

mind and try to stick to your game plan.

Please let us know what you decide to do and how things go.

[Guest guest]

,

I was so glad to read your post--I'm often hesitant to talk about my father

issues on this site as it is one of my most tender spots.

I too have always needed someone, usually a man, to adore me unconditionally

and regardless of whether or not I'm in a relationship. I think my KO sixth

sense really enables me to figure out what everyone (especially guys) need and

to be the person they so desperately crave. So many people in this world just

need a little warmth, some wit, a little flirtation, a hug. For a long time, I

had many intense and close 'best friendships' with guys even while I was in a

serious, long-term relationships. I was feeling men out, trying to understand

their needs, preferences and personalities (my nada comprised about 90% of my

parenting and my first stepdad was a total dishrag, no personality whatsoever,

never spoke up for me, never had any opinions or thoughts and I went to an all

girls high school so college was a truly eye-opening experience for me!) Not

surprisingly, most of these men turned on me at some point having felt that I

had led them on.

I didn't understand it at the time, I treated them as I would a best girl

friend and confidante and was very honest and affectionate; I think I often

violated boundaries without realizing it (not surprising I had boundary issues,

right?) and was therefore very confusing in terms of my intentions.

I was completely loyal to my boyfriend in college as I adored him utterly but

after we broke up, I dated a string of men and after realizing that our

relationship would never live up to my college bf, I cheated on every single

one. I think the main reason for my cheating was, again, my lack of respect for

proper boundaries but also an inability to handle confrontation. When I was

ready to end a relationship, instead of healthily sitting down for a face to

face, I'd cheat and grow distant, forcing my distraught boyfriend to break up

with me so I didn't have to do the hurting. This also allowed me to lilypad

neatly from relationship to relationship, never having to be alone long enough

to handle with the pain of dealing with my childhood wounds.

I think this pattern was not only a byproduct of having never had a healthy

relationship model growing up & having been involved in so much awful fighting

that I was terrified of confrontation but also, much like everyone else on the

planet, I was enthralled with that initial adrenaline of infatuation. However,

as a KO, I think it was one of my flea twists, that surge of excitement was so

familiar to me as one of those interpersonal 'high highs' I'd only otherwise

experienced with nada that I became addicted to the drama of new relationships.

Human relationships are endlessly complicated, passionate, painful and

wonderful. As far as I can tell on this site, KOs stand a very, very good

chance of winding up in healthy, happy relationships. I am, thankfully!,

finally in a place where I realize happiness doesn't equal tedium (it took me

awhile to get here) and I've come to terms with how destructive my past reflex

of cheating was and have embraced the goal of having centered, calm

relationship(s) [with my boyfriend as well as friends] as the axle of my

adulthood.

It has been comforting, however, to hear the stories of several people on this

website who also seem to share a history of having idealized a rescuer/ hero

figure (often male) who's either manifested in fantasy or as the first person we

ever really loved and trusted. It's a very interesting thread to me as I don't

think I'd realized until lately how much my lack of a father figure (and his

complete submission to nada) had affected my own relationships with men...

ktelewis wrote:

Okay, I have a little more time now.

I think it is great that you are finding some healing in your older

relationships. It seems like this high school boyfriend is different

for you, though, and also that you have really thought a lot about

why that might be.

I met my husband in college. We dated for about a semester and a

half before he graduated and went to graduate school 3.5 hours away.

We continued dating and ended up getting married a year and a half

later. We have always been very happy together, with the exception

of one little (BIG) issue.

There was a man in my college class that I had been attracted to

before meeting my husband. We were good friends and had lots of the

same interests. Because our university was small, we were frequently

in classes together. Stronger people would probably not have had as

big of a problem, but especially after my dh graduated, I really had

trouble trying not to flirt with this other man or think about him

romantically, and I felt a lot of guilt about that. I continued to

think of him often and miss the connection I had felt with him. I

imagined that I had hurt him a great deal (this may in fact have been

the case, he did tell me that he had been attracted to me also) when

I left, and fantasized often about trying to apologize for that or

just go back and do things differently.

He came to visit us recently (he had been friends with my husband as

well), and it just sent me over the edge. Seeing him really triggered

a lot of things, and my therapist has helped me work on a lot of

them, but I'm still a work in progress. I have realized that when my

dh graduated, I really felt abandoned and latched on to this other

man emotionally to protect myself. Throughout my life there has

always been SOMEone I have fixated on in fantasy, whom I have made my

hero and rescuer, who I imagine loves me completely and fully and

perfectly. I realized that I thought about this other man most often

when I was feeling abandoned or let down by my dh. I was trying to

avoid feeling hurt by pretending there was an ideal.

Having discovered so much about BPD, I see why that was a useful

survival skill for me psychologically, and I can tell that it's

really never been so much about this other person (though he truly is

a wonderful human being) as it has been about my own unmet

psychological needs (i.e.,I wanted my own father to be a hero to me

and defend me from my mother, but since he wouldn't, I created my own

heroes and idyllic fantasy relationships). I've been learning skills

to help me take care of those needs on my own, and have been working

on communicating in my marriage instead of avoiding conflict, and the

problem has virtually disappeared. I see it differently now. I love

myself better and don't need to fixate on creating pseudo-parents for

myself.

So, that's my story. From reading your post, Genevieve, it sounds

like you really have a good understanding of what might be going on.

I know you will have discussed it with your therapist also. I wish

you all the best in your meeting with your ex. But be prepared, it

is quite possible that seeing him in person will really intensify all

those happy memories of attraction and love. It's common for anybody

who sees an " old flame " to feel those things again. I don't have

great advice on how to handle it yet, just have your boundaries in

mind and try to stick to your game plan.

Please let us know what you decide to do and how things go.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

josobak25 --- did you go to grad school for philosophy too? i am finishing up my

phd in philosophy. for me it's interesting when i think about it in relation to

growing up with a mother with no boundaries or respect for my mental space. when

i " found " philosophy as an undergrad i fell in love. the possibilities. the

freedom. all that space to critique. my nada of course, makes fun of it. but of

course, it's not black and white enough. it's that vague and wonderfully

delicious ambiguous and empowering space ... and it's all about taking yourself

and your ideas seriously ... something i needed very much!

yum!

-- crockett

JosoBak25 wrote:

Hi Genevieve,

I've been meaning to respond to several of your posts recently--it can just be

so hard to keep up with this board!

First of all, in response to your earlier posts, I too came to terms with the

fact that nada was a BP when I was in grad school. That age frame (I was 24 when

I began my program) is a strange transition point between college and adulthood.

You finally begin to grasp what the repercussions of your childhood were and are

no longer drunk, partying and irresponsible all the time. My grad program was

very challenging and throughout the first year, I was way too busy to be social

(I had discovered this website by then though and SWOE so I was on my way in

terms of dealing with my recent revelations abotu nada). My second year was less

difficult though and I my grief for the loss of my idealized nada grew more

intense. I also felt incredibly lonely when I had nights to myself (I relish

them now!) as I think the grief process was marked by lurking ghosts of nada

past (and my past/ potential selves)--it's easier to stay distracted than to

start dealing with the painful

process of recovering from childhood wounds.

In response to this particular post, I also have an ex who I have fetishized

over the years. He was the first real love of my life, we were together for most

of college and a bit after and he was the first person I'd ever really trusted,

loved and opened up to. He helped me discover all the little booby traps in my

personality planted by nada (aka: fleas!) and I became a much better, happier

person throughout the course of our relationship. Our break up was due to

distance (he was a year behind me in school) but we have had a very intense

relationship since, often assuming we'd get back together once we'd lived our

twenties and sowed our oats (we're both probably a bit too pragmatic, that's

what you get with two philosophy majors!). I've since fallen in love with

another man and am very, very happy and feel that I've officially moved on but

it was only through this newfound love that I was able to finally let go of my

ex (and he still rears his head, mentally, when

I'm frustrated with my current boyfriend!)

I liked your idea that clinging to your ex was shortcutting your grief. I don't

know if it's that simple, it just sounds like he was a very important person in

your history, a marking point on your personal timeline, and that you miss his

friendship as much as anything else. I think that's natural for anyone, not just

us KOs, to mourn the loss of a great ex. It is just harder for us since we posit

so much love and faith into our chosen family feeling that our own has failed

us-

I think you should see him. It could be very helpful in terms of you closing the

chapter on the extent to which you've idealized him. Not that you want him to

disappoint you but it's always helpful to see that someone you've made into a

demi-god in your head is actually just another mortal with faults and failures

of their own.

It sounds like you are going on a very natural 1/4 life journey of healing and

attempting to understand and come to terms with your past. It's very healthy,

keep airing our your brain! The more fresh air you have in there mingling with

your thoughts, the easier and sunnier the recovery process will be-

Let us know how it goes!

genevieveheller wrote:

So. I've been doing this thing where I go back to exes/friends I've

kinda not seen or ended things on a weird note.

It's been really healing. I never saw a point to doing this in the

past, but now that I'm in therapy, I have more psychological

resources. It's easier for me to be vulnerable and apologize for some

of my behavior without caring how people will react. So that's been

great.

Now, I've kind of whittled my list down to my high school love/former

best friend. We ended things on such an awful note, and I was so

upset at him for not being my friend after we broke up. He just

really put this enormous barrier up, and it felt like I had disappeared.

Having been raised in a low-nurturance environment, there were so many

things about this relationship I wasn't ready for. My boyfriend was

exceedingly warm and nurturing (he had to be for a someone like me to

even trust someone after all the awfulness of a bp household).

He was like my main friend in high school, and to this day I miss him.

I couldn't handle having significant contact with him after the

break-up because 1) he didn't really contact me the way he used to 2)

when he did I was always so upset we weren't friends anymore that I

would be really bitter.

So I've decided to make him a side visit while visiting a relative

next weekend. Ten year reunion.

This upcoming visit is bringing up all kinds of feelings. It's like I

idealize him, but I think part of that is because he rejected me, and

his wall is up so much.

I think this rejection feels familiar to me because it reminds me of

my father, so it's as if I long for my ex to make up for all the love

I never got as a kid.

Try as I might, I can't stop longing for my ex. I really did love

him. He was such an awesome person. I wish I could just put myself

out there and write and contact him like I used to.

I desperately miss him.

The fact my feelings are a little out of proportion for the situation

make me take pause though. I want to process this before I do any

more contacting. I have the date set up, so anything I say I can say

in person. But it just feels like seeing him again is stirring up all

the old longing.

Anyone have issues of fixation like this? I think because my wounds

are so big, I long that there can be a perfect person who can fill

them. This makes me blind to seeing people more realistically. Maybe

my ex did have really wonderful parts, but I think the scared lonely

kid in me is idealizing them to make me believe there is someone out

there who could really take the place of my father, which I don't

believe is true.

I think people are people and I think this subconscious longing and

idealization is a way of short-cutting my grief.

Any thoughts? Any other relationship advice of how being raised by a

BP affects our ability to be with others?

Thanks,

G.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.