Re: What do you do?

[Guest guest]

Wow, was I lucky.

I did get some jewelry from my Grandma, including her pearls. But what

was even more valuable to me was the pictures. They included some of

my grandparents before they were married, my mom as a baby, my grandpa

when he was in the army (WW2, D-Day veteran!) and my two uncles

(deceased). There was even one from 1898 of my great-great

grandfather (her grandfather). I didn't even know these pictures

existed, and I would never have gotten them if she hadn't given them

to me before she died. I think she knew that if mom had her way, I

would never have seen them, and she might have even have gotten rid of

them. She knew my mom hated her heritage, and didn't want me to know

anything about it, or have anything remotely related to it. So I got

the pictures and I'm glad grandma had some foresight.

[Guest guest]

What a great reply, Sylvia. I can use that advice, too -- I could

have written " L " 's post, too. I feel guilty that my Hermit mother

is sitting in a dark world of her own making. And she and my father

are only too happy to sit quietly while hoping I feel guilty.

I, too, drank and acted out in my teen and young adult years to

blunt the feelings of unworthiness and lack of direction -- fear of

directing my own life. Thank God I found a great guy and when we

had our two children, I straightened out. They were worth it.

Thanks again for your wise words. I struggle almost daily with

feeling guilty and responsible for my mom & dad sitting home alone --

when attempts by me/us to draw them into our lives have been

rebuffed. The lack of interest in our lives is something I can't

deny anymore.

-Kyla

> >

> > I have been reading through the posts and identifying with so

many

> > things people bring up. It's actually kind of painful because

so

> > many memories are pushing their way to the forefront. But, I

know

> > I'm not alone in what I've gone through and that is definitely

> > helpful. I have been reading UBM and am amazed at how well it

> > describes my mother and myself as a child of. It is very

> comforting

> > to understand finally why I always felt like I had no idea who I

> was

> > or if I was even a real person.

> >

> > My question is how do you separate from her? My mother is

mostly

> a

> > Waif with some Queen mixed in. She is at a point where she does

> > nothing for herself. She is just letting herself go mentally

and

> > physically. I do want to move on with my life that I've worked

so

> > hard to create (I lost everything once before having chosen

drugs

> as

> > a way to cope with her craziness). But how do you pull away

> enough

> > to have healthy distance and at the same time not feel guilty

> about

> > her wasting away. I hope I don't sound wishy washy, I do want

to

> > stand alone and not be responsible for her in any way, but I

can't

> > figure out how to do it emotionally. She has me trained so well

> to

> > clean up her messes, literally and figuratively, that I am

having

> > diffuculty knowing how to do it. '

> >

> > I know I need to learn how to set clear, firm boundaries, I'm

just

> > wondering if others have been in the same situation and how they

> > have handled it.

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > L

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What an amazing post sylvia. Very inspiring. L really try to follow this path,

it is hard but

well worth the energy.

thank you

> >

> > I have been reading through the posts and identifying with so many

> > things people bring up. It's actually kind of painful because so

> > many memories are pushing their way to the forefront. But, I know

> > I'm not alone in what I've gone through and that is definitely

> > helpful. I have been reading UBM and am amazed at how well it

> > describes my mother and myself as a child of. It is very

> comforting

> > to understand finally why I always felt like I had no idea who I

> was

> > or if I was even a real person.

> >

> > My question is how do you separate from her? My mother is mostly

> a

> > Waif with some Queen mixed in. She is at a point where she does

> > nothing for herself. She is just letting herself go mentally and

> > physically. I do want to move on with my life that I've worked so

> > hard to create (I lost everything once before having chosen drugs

> as

> > a way to cope with her craziness). But how do you pull away

> enough

> > to have healthy distance and at the same time not feel guilty

> about

> > her wasting away. I hope I don't sound wishy washy, I do want to

> > stand alone and not be responsible for her in any way, but I can't

> > figure out how to do it emotionally. She has me trained so well

> to

> > clean up her messes, literally and figuratively, that I am having

> > diffuculty knowing how to do it. '

> >

> > I know I need to learn how to set clear, firm boundaries, I'm just

> > wondering if others have been in the same situation and how they

> > have handled it.

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > L

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is solely a fantasy on my part. It was actually my

pschiatrist that suggested that if she show up on my doorstep and

refused to leave that I call the police and have her arrested for

trespassing, or whatever else I could dream up. Either way, psycho

ward or jail, the effect would be the same to my Nada - forced

confinement, which she did to me for so many years and one of her

greatest fears. Being alone and confined where you cannot manipulate

or torture others would make her totally crazed.

My dream aside, I do not want and will resist any attempts by my nada

that she come back into my life. For me, the anger and pain is far

too deep and for the most part, it is unresolved as for yet. I have

a lot of missing time (sometimes for 2 to 3 years at a time) that are

just a blank. Being that I remember the times around those missing

years were hurendous enough, I don't think that the missing years

were because my mother was a mother and behaved like a mother,

therefore, everything was sweetness and light for a couple of years

before the turn. My mother has always been mostly witch. My

perception is that if I cannot remember those times right now it's

not because they were better than the years I recall, it's because

they were likely worse. So far in therapy, I have only delved into

what I can remember. That's tough enough for me right now.

Khris

>

> I hate to disappoint you...

>

> It's a very good dream, but don't count on it coming true. This is

> pretty much what happened to me. My BP mom got drunk in an airport

> before a flight. She got sick on the airplane before it took off,

and

> they put her off the plane. After getting back to the terminal, we

> were told she needed to go to the hospital and get a doctors ok to

> fly. She went into a rage. She said she would rent a car. (From

> Florida to land? And drunk?) An ambulance was called, she

> wouldn't get in it. Anyway, through Herculean efforts, my husband,

> his father and I got her to a local hospital where they forcibly

kept

> her for 24 hours. (Baker Act: danger to your self or others. She

> tried to hit me in front of witnesses) But they can't keep you for

> more than 24 hours if you sober up and/or calm down. Which of

course

> she did. She knew her rights, she knew she didn't have to stay and

> she signed herself out.

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla, I think what you describe here is the MOST infuriating trait of

a BPD parent. It never ceases to amaze me how they expect a high

level of service, care, attention, etc... from others, yet have

ABSOLUTELY NO reflective ability to see they do not give out even a

wedge of what they expect to GET. We often call them " The

Moochers. " In our family, Nada would arrive for a visit which always

included a home-cooked spread. Never would the invitation go the

other way. We simply were not welcome. Yet, when they descended on

my home, NADA would actually go to the stove and lift all the pot

lids and ask lots of questions about what I was cooking for them. I

used to get so pissed at this! As I got older, I started " assigning "

her things to contribute if I was hosting a family party. Once, I

held a family reunion for her family and she showed up with a dozen

hard-boiled eggs still in the shell, and in an egg carton. She

handed them to me and said " Here, you need to shell these. " As if

they were appetizers or something! Hard-boiled freaking eggs! My

friends still laugh about this one.

Anyway, how can they expect so much without realizing they are not

giving anything? It just seems impossible to understand.

~Elle

>

> Yes, I have noticed in both my grandmother and nada that they have

> selfish personalities -- my mom wants everything for free, doesn't

> give to charity (she's fond of saying " the government needs to

> handle that problem. " The magical government -- not her.)

>

> I remember noticing when she'd have weekend guests (not very

> often!), she didn't bother to plan menus or have food out for

them.

> I think her mentality was " Well, they're guests here, they can take

> ME out to dinner! " -- the problem is, there are more meals than

> dinner! No snacks for the kids -- just a quiet kitchen with a half-

> empty fridge. Some hospitality.

>

> My grandmother refused to let my mother call home (long distance)

on

> her phone, even while my mother was being a free, round the clock

> nurse to grandmother. Wouldn't lower the thermostat below 80,

> either, even when my mother asked her to. Wouldn't give my mother

a

> winter coat, even though she had 8 of them in her closet.

>

> My mother likes to make you take care of her, too -- she'll show up

> for a weekend with no shampoo, etc. It's like she's forcing

> intimacy and caring by doing that. Shows up with no provisions for

> herself, and looks to you to take care of her. I think that's

> selfish, too.

>

> Shows no hospitality, but darn sure expects it from others.

Doesn't

> want to pay " high " prices, and conveniently forgets that the people

> who bring her those goods and services have to live, too.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

You summed that up so well! It's a one-way street with them! (Same

thing with expecting phone calls FROM us, but not troubling

themselves to MAKE phone calls.)

I used to get so irritated with my mother when we'd have a big

gathering for Easter or Christmas and I'm working myself to the bone

to get everything to the table at the same time so we can sit down --

mother would show up and dramatically exclaim she was " starving!! " -

- so that when we sat down, she'd start chowing making dramatic,

breathless " I'm starving!!! " comments, her face close to the plate --

and I had not even sat down yet nor had we had the prayer over the

food yet!

I asked her " why are you so hungry? " ---- " Oh, I haven't eaten a

thing all day " .....I bravely asked if she'd mind waiting until I

could sit down.

(Well, why don't you eat a little something so you're not like a

prison escapee when you come over to my house?!!)

All that hard work, and all she cares about is scarfing it down --

before everyone's seated and before it's been blessed.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

That's totally upsetting and disgusting and rude and... Sorry you have to put

up with it!

Re: What do you do?

You summed that up so well! It's a one-way street with them! (Same

thing with expecting phone calls FROM us, but not troubling

themselves to MAKE phone calls.)

I used to get so irritated with my mother when we'd have a big

gathering for Easter or Christmas and I'm working myself to the bone

to get everything to the table at the same time so we can sit down --

mother would show up and dramatically exclaim she was " starving!! " -

- so that when we sat down, she'd start chowing making dramatic,

breathless " I'm starving!!! " comments, her face close to the plate --

and I had not even sat down yet nor had we had the prayer over the

food yet!

I asked her " why are you so hungry? " ---- " Oh, I haven't eaten a

thing all day " .....I bravely asked if she'd mind waiting until I

could sit down.

(Well, why don't you eat a little something so you're not like a

prison escapee when you come over to my house?!!)

All that hard work, and all she cares about is scarfing it down --

before everyone's seated and before it's been blessed.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Funny you say that. Not long after this incident, I thought to

myself, in hindsight, that I should have asked the airline staff to

call the police, not the paramedics. In the state she was in, I'm

about 85% certain she would have resisted police intervention. And

that would have been a quite a sight.

Another funny sort of related:

Several years before this incident, before I got married actually, she

had another major meltdown, this one over my stepfather. (who was

divorcing her at the time) I didn't actually witness this one. How I

found out was that one of her friends called me at my apartment. (I

lived about 1 hr away) She (friend) was very worried. Apparently she

and another friend stopped by mom's house that evening because they

knew she would be seeing my stepfather that night and wanted to see

how she was doing after the meeting, and to offer moral support, if

needed.

Apparently mom was not doing too well. They found her in her house in

full Tasmanian devil mode, screaming at nothing and throwing breakable

objects at the walls. They had never seen her like this and had no

idea what to think or do. So who ya gonna call?? Me, of course.

Fortunately, I wasn't home at the time, or I might have done a stupid

and actually drove down. I was on a date with my then boyfriend (now

husband). By the time I got home, it was after 10 and I had to be at

work the next morning. What a lovely surprise on my answering

machine. I called the friend back, who told me the meltdown was over

and that the Tas/momster was sleeping. She was still concerned and

astonished over the incident and I told her that I'd seen it before (I

had) and this was " normal " for mom.(It was) She was still a little

unsure but I said mom would probably be ok for now. (Which I knew she

probably would be, at least as " ok " as mom ever gets) She and the

other friend had very kindly cleaned up the mess.

And now I come to the point of this long-ass story, which relates to

something you said.

I mentioned this incident to the therapist I was seeing at the time.

(Not the same one I'm seeing now. My current therapist is who

suggested mom had BPD.) I told her that this had happened before and

that I was (as always) nonplussed. I wanted to know what to do to

defuse the situation if it should come up again. She said " call the

police. " Huh?? Never occurred to me. This was standard operating

procedure for mom. I just wanted her to calm down. Therapist says:

" She's creating a disturbance. You call the police. This isn't

normal behavior for anyone. " (or something to that effect) Very faint

light bulb goes on in my head. " Not normal behavior, therefore, Mom

is not normal. Maybe it's not all me " .

The beginnings of the journey. It was another seven years, a

marriage, a damn near divorce, and another therapist before I finally

got a name for the thing.

But I sure wish I'd remembered this in that Florida airport.

Good luck to you on your journey, which I know is painful right now.

It gets easier, really it does.

[Guest guest]

>

> I have been reading through the posts and identifying with so many

> things people bring up. It's actually kind of painful because so

> many memories are pushing their way to the forefront. But, I know

> I'm not alone in what I've gone through and that is definitely

> helpful. I have been reading UBM and am amazed at how well it

> describes my mother and myself as a child of. It is very

comforting

> to understand finally why I always felt like I had no idea who I

was

> or if I was even a real person.

>

> My question is how do you separate from her? My mother is mostly

a

> Waif with some Queen mixed in. She is at a point where she does

> nothing for herself. She is just letting herself go mentally and

> physically. I do want to move on with my life that I've worked so

> hard to create (I lost everything once before having chosen drugs

as

> a way to cope with her craziness). But how do you pull away

enough

> to have healthy distance and at the same time not feel guilty

about

> her wasting away. I hope I don't sound wishy washy, I do want to

> stand alone and not be responsible for her in any way, but I can't

> figure out how to do it emotionally. She has me trained so well

to

> clean up her messes, literally and figuratively, that I am having

> diffuculty knowing how to do it. '

>

> I know I need to learn how to set clear, firm boundaries, I'm just

> wondering if others have been in the same situation and how they

> have handled it.

>

> Thanks!

>

> L

>

Hi L,

I just joined this group myself. About 10 years too late if you ask

me! But I'm glad I'm here now, and have you and the other to share

with.

Seperating yourself from her? Let's see...well for me, it was a slow

progression. I stopped returning her calls, and didn't visit

anymore, and have kept very limited contact with her over the last 5

years. Like you, my sister and I clean up her messes and have felt

so guilt riden about pulling away, but even that's getting better

for us. We still, on occassion, get calls from the ERs, the police

department, or mental ward administrative staff in the middle the

night telling us our mom is in trouble and needs family. Once we

tell these folks that she's BP, they're like: " Oh, I see. I'm sorry

to hear that. Well, then, this too shall pass. But in the meantime,

what shall we do with her? "

L, the biggest problem I've had personally in letting go of her has

been the guilt and the lack of support and understanding from

others. There was another posting that said the same: when you tell

people you want nothing to do with your mom, that she's crazy and

impossible to love and care for, people look at you like you're

Hitler or Satan, and you get a lot of crap from it " Oh, but she's

your mom! How could you?! It's your responsibility " etc. etc. And,

then, I was right back in her game because I didn't want to be

branded as a 'bad person'. And I thought that by explaining her BP

to people, provide examples, give details of her insanity, and the

pain my sis and I have lived through people would be more

understanding, right? No. They don't really believe that level of

craziness is possible. Especially since our circle of friends and

family often see the High Functioning side of her, and only a

selected few get to see her meltdowns.

So, once I saw that I was totally on my own on this one, I decided

it was me or her. Plain and simple: survival of the fittest. I chose

to live, and to live happily, and I was not willing to sacrifice my

life for hers anymore. I had already done that for 30 years, and

nothing good came out of it for either one of us. I know this sounds

cruel, but I'm ok with it.

You see, I have something to live for, my two sons. And, they

deserve a happy, peaceful, normal mom of their own. The craziness

that my mom would bring on to me would affect my sons heavily, and

so I made the choice to:

a) not care what people said about me if I seperated myself from her

and

I pulled away gradually until she finally got it: I wasn't

playing anymore, and she could no longer count on me.

c) I called her family, brothers and sisters, and parents, and told

them my mom is BP (and gave them material to read up on it), and

that I was not equipped to handle her or cure her. That I have

suffered enough and that it's THEIR turn.

d) I told my mom she needs help, and to call me when she's ready to

get it.

I've had 2 years of no contact with her. The effects of this

decision, sadly, is that my sister is still dealing with her. No one

stepped up to the plate (my uncles and gradparents), and so my

sister is still dealing with ther rages, constant homelessness,

financial woes, gambling, abusive behavior and other nutty

situations.

But, I'm not worried about that so much. My sister needs this so

that she too can get her fill of Nada and then walk away.

As long as Nada refuses to get help, we can't do much for her

anymore. She's HF and tends to get around real good. There's always

a new person she'll encounter that will be suckered into doing

things for her, giving her money, feed her, etc. She's got medical

and VA benefits, a pension, and slew of friends at the casino who

will call my sister and I if there's ever a real emergency.

Finally, if she dies before she gets help, I know I will spend weeks

or months dealing with the could've/should'ves of helping her. I'm

also prepared for this phase it.

Of course, I hope she opts to get help so that perhaps we can all

have some normalcy and peace for the years she's got (she's 60).

Until then, I will focus on my own health, recovery, and the

happiness of my sons.

Kannielu

[Guest guest]

Anyone here remember the song " Minnie the Moocher " by Cab Calloway?

My husband and I sometimes refer to my mom as Nada the Moocher.

" Hey folks here's the story of Nada the moocher "

Except in this case nada's got a heart as big as a snail...

qwerty

>

> Kyla, I think what you describe here is the MOST infuriating trait of

> a BPD parent. It never ceases to amaze me how they expect a high

> level of service, care, attention, etc... from others, yet have

> ABSOLUTELY NO reflective ability to see they do not give out even a

> wedge of what they expect to GET. We often call them " The

> Moochers. "