Re: Understanding the BPD Mother.

January 4, 2008

I can only speaking about my situation. My BPD mother pushes all the

wrong buttons with me. But as for my kids, they adore their " Nana " .

They are the bright spot in my mother's world. I'm the only that

needs to set healthy boundaries. My children shouldn't pay the price.

Catfluff

>

> Good morning everyone.

> So my wife and I started reading the book Understanding the BPD

> Mother, and so far I want to say it has been very helpful, and to

> anyone that hasnt read it, i can tell by the first chapter and a

half

> that it is going to be a great help. It has helped me even

remember

> things that I had forgotten had happened to me, or sounded very

> familiar, and the explanations are great. One thing that I was

> wondering, is that in the beginning it states how mostly the BPD

mom

> will attach to daughters, and kids of BPD's are less likely to be

> male. I had actually noticed that on this board it had seemed to

me

> that I was in a minority being a male here, and I was wondering if

> there are any other males on this board. I am sure there are but

> just haven't recognized them due to all i know about them is their

> screen name. The book stated that their theory to as why there is

> less men with BPD moms is only because men are much less likely to

> seek therapy to even find out that their mom may suffer from BPD.

If

> there are guys on this board, I would be interested to hear your

> story, what triggered it, when, how you are dealing with it now,

> ect...

>

> Also, I know I am extremely, what some may consider anal, but I

have

> been trying to plan things out (which may be an impossible feat

with

> a BPD mom). But my wife and I, we have only been married 2.5

years,

> but we are considering having kids here in the next year or so, and

> would just like to know what i should expect going into this with a

> BPD mom? Right now we are NC, but I forsee me trying to regain

some

> contact somehow before then. I understand boundaries are important

> to set, but how do you deal with a BPD mom with this situation.

Some

> had expressed concern for even letting my mom near any kids we may

> have? Is this a valid concern, or how should people with BPD be

> handled with their grandchildren?

>

> Thanks again all.

> T

>

January 6, 2008

T,

I am not a male, but I am here because of my husband's BPD father and

the fact that I've been in the family since I was 14 years old, he

had much influence on me as a " parent " as well. My H and I had the

same experience as Jill, where BPDs start freaking out when you get

engaged (threaten to abandon them), freak out more when you get

married (I've seen them ruin all three of their children's weddings)

and as each baby is born, it intensifies. I think it gives them

actual pain to see their children have a happy family and NOT live in

the dysfunctional chaos they put on their own children growing up.

It's a slap in their face to see you do anything differently than

they did and because of this, they aim to make you behave the way

they acted. When they see a difference, they treat you as an alien

and make you feel guilty. Sometimes, you fall back into the trap and

overlook their tactics, but if you do, you start collecting " fleas "

along the way. Be careful. You are very smart to pre-plan this

venture!

My top two pieces of advice to you are: #1-form a united front with

your wife and do not let them chip away at it, EVER. #2- do not

allow a BPD grandparent unsupervised time with your child. They

will, at first, make a good attempt at looking grandparently... but

they will not be able to hide their abusive side forever. You don't

want it to endanger your child. If you decide to go LC with your

NADA, keep it LC with tons of boundaries after you have children.

She'll likely blame and accuse your wife for this wedge, so expect

that too.

You asked to hear triggers for males. My H first went LC after we

got married and he suffered from his father throwing huge rages at

the thought of him leaving the " nest " and starting a new life. This

lasted about 8 years until our children started arriving and H wanted

his parents to share in his joy... slowly, they started up again but

my H was by then back in denial, sucked back in full force. He

turned to alcohol to help him continue his denial and his struggle to

figure out who he really was. After several years and too many

incidents to count, our marriage started falling apart. Finally, my

H went to his parents for a place to stay while he worked out his

personal life. His parents were supportive for about 2 days. Then

the martyrdom and abuse kicked in. After a couple of weeks, he could

stand it no more when his father, on Father's Day, was taunting him

and calling him names repeatedly and not letting him respond. My H

was as at rock bottom and needed support--separated, missing his

children, lost his job, living with his parents at 43 yrs old... --

and yet his FADA could do nothing but harp on him for using their

electricity and raging at him for questioning his parents'

viewpoints. His NADA sat by idly, like a dishrag and didn't get

involved one way or the other. Despondent, my H left their home and

got his own place for a few months and then started counseling to

deal with the realization that his parents had always been this way

and how it has affected and formed the person he is. He slowly

became strong again and we reconciled, but the damage in the family

is too great to repair. He now feels that to let him into his life

is to start the cycle again. His dad got cancer and he reluctantly

started a bit of limited contact, but quickly saw that the cancer was

expected to erase everything and his FADA did not change in any way.

He expected everything to return to the previous state, before the

latest blowup. My H gets it now--his FADA is not a father, cancer

has not changed anything. He is currently NC with his FADA and his

siblings are still supportive of their parents, yet struggling with

their abusive treatment also (meaning they are currently unable to

have a relationship with their brother and parents at the same

time). It's an ugly and sad situation.

Good luck. You are about to embark on an incredible journey having

your first child. Please don't let our stories discourage your

dream. You can learn to not make our mistakes as you start your own

family. Enjoy!

~Elle

January 6, 2008

Re: Elle's second piece of advice

do not allow a BPD grandparent unsupervised time with your child.

They will, at first, make a good attempt at looking grandparently...

but they will not be able to hide their abusive side forever. You

don't want it to endanger your child.

Despite others here who report acceptable interaction between BP

grandparent & grandchildren, I think that enmeshment or need for

childcare or something else must surely be driving the seal of

approval, not actually appropriate, caring behavior on the part of

the grandparent.

When my daughter was young ( & I was pretty young myself, divorced

with limited resources,) I did use nada for childcare a couple times

each month. Besides being young & broke, I had an irregular work

schedule which contributed to the difficulty. Initially I did have

concerns with nada's care based on how I had been treated, but

learned to " look past them " because the need was so great on my

part - to have a flexible sitter, to be a " good daughter " , to have

her interact with the ex since the visitation handoff almost always

took place when I was at work & he would not agree to any other

time... Despite the perceived inadequacies (maybe nada's just a

little distracted) and rationalizations (they deserve to have a

relationship apart from my issues with Mom), daughter loved being

with nada so it seemed all was well.

In reality what she loved was the utter lack of boundaries,

consequences, and accountability - plus all the candy, soda, TV she

could ever want & no bath or bedtime, and a healthy dose of dishing

up crap on Mom! (Me!)

When daughter was older & not so dependent, there were the same

subtle confidence-destroying jibes at her that I'd experienced - and

other hurts not so subtle. One incident in particular: around age

12 my daughter performed in a talent show & nada attended. During

the performance she loudly criticized my daughter's schoolmates and

their performances while sitting in the audience amongst their

parents, grandparents, etc. It was a small school & caused some

hurt feelings and much embarrassment; but she wouldn't shut up!

Then in the car on the way home, she acknowledged neither the

performance nor my daughter's excitement & enthusiasm, instead

talking about her arthritis, Seinfeld, etc. When daughter began to

cry, then the accusations started: What's wrong with her? Why is

she crying? Make her stop!

It all happened so quickly that I told my daughter nada just didn't

understand & tried to move past the incident asap & do damage

control later. I was so dumbfounded that nada couldn't grasp what

had gone on that I couldn't even respond. Kind of like when the

news reporter asks, " How did you feel when your [loved one] was

decapitated? " or something similar where the answer is so obvious

you can't believe the question is being asked.

With my brother's sons & my own grandsons, I could have a more

objective eye and see the obvious. With boys there were other

issues of inappropriateness as well, mostly making them do all her

undone chores in her pigsty house, making them little adults, and

the inappropriate sexualization that has been discussed at length in

various posts.

My experience with nada, BP bro, narcissist/maybe BP dad, and BP ex-

husband says NONE OF THEM SHOULD BE ALLOWED UNSUPERVISED AROUND ANY

CHILDREN EVER. THEY ALL INEVITABLY FIND WAYS TO ABUSE EMOTIONALLY

WHEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY. They prey on the vulnerability of

childhood innocence and step on the backs of the children,

grandchildren, greatgrandchildren in their charge to make themselves

bigger. They dish out to our kids what they've always dished out to

us, just in smaller servings.

I apologize in advance for the hurt feelings I may cause with this

but I sincerely believe it was my enmeshment and other needs driving

the assessment of how she was caring for my daughter in my absence.

It's hard for me to believe I'm the only one who would make this

mistake. I didn't have a lot of choice given the circumstances but I

still have a lot of regret about it. Knowing what we know about our

nadas & fadas, I think it's pretty silly and maybe downright

negligent on our parts to think they would care for our precious

children any differently than they " cared for " us.

You're making fabulous progress Tony, keep up the good work!

January 6, 2008

I agree, , that BPD grandparents shouldn't be allowed to have unsupervised

time with children. The disorder doesn't get 'cured' by the age of those they

are around. My daughter and her family just left after a visit and my fada was

around his great-grands very, very little while they were here.. However, on

one occasion, he asked our 6-year old grandchild (his great-grand) what grade

she was in. She goes to school out of the country and they don't classify the

grades the same way, so she hesitated with her answer.. He immediately picked

up on her uncertainty and said, " What's the matter, don't you even know what

grade you're in? " My daughter luckily jumped right in and said - - well, the

grades are different where we are -- so the grandchild did not feel belittled,

but instead greatgrandFADA was put in his place. I shutter to think what that

would have felt like to her had she been unsupervised. It happened to me and

the rest of the family too

many times to not know that that was just the beginning of berating and

belittling her.

Trouble is, they don't even know that they are being mean and abusive -- so how

can they be expected to correct it??

AZClown

Re: Understanding the BPD Mother.

Re: Elle's second piece of advice

do not allow a BPD grandparent unsupervised time with your child.

They will, at first, make a good attempt at looking grandparently. ..