Many thoughts stimulate many thoughts!

[Guest guest]

1. no fathers/no marriage. I believe that it is widely recognized by mental

health professionals that girls who grow up without fathers or father figures

are most unlikely to marry. And it is very hard to relate to men when you dont

speak their language, especially when raised in isolation by the nada and the

movies. As I was. I now have good male friends of long standing ( former

colleagues all married and totally platonic, mostly penpals,alas) and a couple

of proposals in my youth( which would have been disastrous). I didnt know how to

choose men, was always drawn to very troubled guys. But also fiercely

indepnendent, so never quite gave in, though I longed for intimacy and love.

2. therapists and validation. I wish I had spent the money on vacations or

moving to another continent that I wasted on therapy long ago. In those days

they, men all, were of the " nothing wrong with you/snap out of it " school. I

didnt know how to describe or convey my misery, and presented myself as a

paranoid whiner. It was finally about 15 years ago that some books started to

come out, and I joined Randi's early list that I finally felt validation. And

started the slow process of learning about boundaries and moving on with my

life. Just then, nada had a massive heart attack that left her a cardiac

cripple, a medical wonder who survived countless experimental surgeries, and

guess who was back in the support business.

3. migraines- nada had terrible ones that left her immobilized for days. Since

we shared a bedroom, I wasnt allowed in; forget where I spent those nights. Must

have been on the couch.Old rural farmhouse in the 50s; there were other bedrooms

but I never slept in them. I get migraines now but never of the severity of

hers. There is supposed to be something wrong with the brain wiring, similar to

epilepsy; I often wonder if there is a connection with the bpd state or

predisposition.

4. frilly nightdresses and husbands. I must reread the book; forgot the husband

categories. Her second came when I turned 15; it was a terrible time for me. She

moved to town became a different person; suddenly there was money but she

actively HATED me and repeatedly refused to spend a penny on someone as

worthless as I. Threw a whole screaming tanturm in the town bookstore over the

cost of my highschool texts, it being my fault somehow. Yet refused to let me

live elsewhere or take a job. Anyway her tough husband was completely besotted

with her. Used to iron her frilly silk movie star nighties after she got sick

among other abasements. Would never hear a complaint against her. Drove his own

sons and daughters away because of her. About 5 years ago, he, suffering from a

bad heart himself, and diabetes and advancing parkinsons and cancer, cried to

me for the first time on the phone about how she had " changed " and how awful his

life was. And guess who

was on the other line? I was never allowed to speak to him on the phone, or

alone in the room with him again. And now she tells strangers nurses,

housekeepers, visitors, thrilling stories about how abusive he was to her. Total

fabrication, and the complete opposite of the truth. I could shake her til her

teeth rattle!

5. water. I grew up on the east coast but went to work in central Canada. The

constant dream in my life was to get near the sea again. And, thanks to planning

and some good luck in retiring, I now live on the ocean. Yes rivers and lakes

are lovely but they freeze over up here and I need open water. And I never tire

of looking at it. The only place I feel tranquil. Hate to even go to town for

supplies. I have become the hermit.And if not for nada this is the happiest time

of my life!

6. Carla: protect yourself! One of my friends checks up and gives me a cover if

I am too stressed to deal with her. Taught me to lie, and hey- if I have to make

up an appointment to avoid rushing to help her, when she never listens and it

causes me days to recuperate, then a lie it is. She lies excessively under the

guise of being a total truth teller, and it made truth very important to me.

Being able to distinguish reality from her invalidations- well we are back to

number 2!

Thanks for the support and the community, folks. We can help each other deal

with this and live better lives. And I should maybe go renew my prozac.

aunt kate

Re: Re: need your advice on breaking my NC

The despair and validation go hand and hand--we usually come on this

site to seek solace and share our wounds. Stay strong in your journey, the

despair (at least for me) lessened considerably with acceptance, laughter and

empathy (from fellow 'survivors') .

Your post interested me on a personal level: my nada married my biological dad

after only three months of dating, I was conceived a week after the wedding, by

the time I was 1 1/2 she'd moved out due to his angry, drunken rampages (his

smashing her head open on a sink was the last straw-) She removed him from my

life, THANK GOD, remarried a kind but fisherman type (if you read that

" Understanding the Borderline Mother " there are some great descriptions of the

men they are drawn to/ are drawn to them, your nada's second hubbie, the cop,

sounds a bit like the huntsman). My drunken, delusional biological father

stumbled back into my life when I was 23 and has been harassing me since, calls

drunk a lot, e-mails long, patronizing, rambling lie-riddled accounts of his

life since my mother left him--in addition to a vaguely pornographic sample

chapter of his 'novel' on the Vietnam war--it's been traumatic. In terms of

your own father, I wonder how you

think his absence

affected your life as you seem to hint it played a role in your own

relationship cycle?

oldauntkate <oldauntkate@ yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks for the welcome and support,Kyla.

So many messages the last two days could be mine; I am feeling

validated already. Also despairing.

When will someone find a way to a) identify early, and help these

devastated and devastating people! Or at least keep the rest of us out

of harms way.

I have struggled with depression all my life. Nada removed me from any

contact with my father when I was an infant; when I finally met him 25

years later, he was a raving angry alcoholic. I never married, had

children or even long term relationships, although I do have afew

long term friends. My nada dominated my life when I wasnt working like

the world depended on me putting in 16 hour days at top speed. I kept

trying to fix everything wrong. She was Queen, witch waif and hermit(

who mustnt be alone!) simultaneously. She could keep many balls in the

air at a time and so many of us in her thrall. We could switch roles

without even being aware.

She is actually good to her three grandchildren, as long as they are

sweet and agreeable. Heaven forbid they should have an opinion of

their own or prefer their friends to visiting her( at 12, 14 and 16,

you can imagine how she is crumpling in her adoration; the term " dear

sweet " is rapidly being replaced by " that witch " . When I thought

seriously about having a child, I realized as a single parent she

would take it over and so never went through with it. I still believe

that was the right decision.

Her second husband was a strong policeman who doted on her and she

could never be wrong in his eyes, no matter how abusive she was to

him. Or me but I didnt count. Since his death last month I have never

seen so much of the waif/Queen. She is loving being the grieving

widow; lots of attention.

Im just saying, for those NCs who long to connect somehow, that it is

a fairy tale. I wish I hadnt wasted my life living it for her. It s

hard to rip away but worse to grow into her skin.

Old Aunt Kate.

-- In WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com, " kylaboo728 " <kylaboo728@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Hey, aunt kate, good to have you back again, sorry it's necessary! --

> sounds like you need some support!

>

> I have a nada who can't dial a phone either! Also, she is hateful

> and unforgiving, as you described yours to be. She HATED her father

> in law her entire marriage after something he said behind her back

> got back to her. She fed that hatred for the next 40 years until he

> died -- hated grandma, too....I forget why.

>

> Granted, I wouldn't like it either to hear someone talked bad about

> me, but to nurse that hatred for that long was her specialty. If

> grampa sent money for us kids for Christmas, she just pocketed it.

> When grandma gave me some of her cast-off dresses (I loved playing

> dress up in them!), she secretly got rid of them, then pretended to

> know nothing as I frantically looked for them.......All due to her

> seething hatred of her in-laws.

>

> I like to compare the never-ending wellspring of hatred and

> negativity of the BPD to Yellowstone' s hot springs. Neverending

> supply of power keeps 'em going.

>

> Welcome back and I hope you find the help you need to deal with your

> current situation. I'm sure you can find a way to balance helping

> out while simultaneously holding on to your sanity.

>

> -Kyla

>

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