Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!!

August 23, 2011

LesleiCan you name the feeling you get when this happens and just silently welcome it when it appears, perhaps with some lightness? When it appears you have a choice - struggle or go about your business. You need to develop a new "script" to follow when it appears, a "script" that changes your reaction from "oh shit, not again" to "Oh, how cute. How nice of you to come." It's a mind game. You are training your mind to stop following an old script - buying the feelings as a threat to be dealt. Be cool about it. It's hard, it makes no sense, but it will work if you do it with some frivolousness, rather than fear and dread. EACH TIME IT HAPPENS.ACT says to defuse from the thoughts about the anxiety. See GOOYMAIYL, pp.83-85. ACT says to accept the feelings of anxiety,. ala keep moving ahead with hands, feet, arms and legs. GOOYMAIYL. chapters 9 and 10. I know. Same stuff over and over. Sorry.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: leslie.vanbuskirk@...Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:49:20 +0000Subject: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!!

I am trying to look at this in a humorous "holding lightly" way but I am really having trouble with the acceptance of anxiety. There are parts of my job that I feel very confident about but I can change in a split second and I don't like that I can't stop it. When I come in contact with some students i can be overcome by feelings of self-doubt and the urge to stop the feeling is so strong. I try to just let it be but I've not been able to stop feeling threatened by it. It still feels so dangerous and then I feel like a failure because I have not been successful in letting it just be there. The whole idea of ACT makes so much sense but when it is a strong emotion I don't seem to be able to make it work. I keep thinking why can't I hold on to that feeling of confidence. I just don't trust anxiety. I feel like it has such potential to get out of control. Intellectually I get it, but not experientially.

August 24, 2011

The main idea I got from this, , is the concept of over-attending and over-monitoring ones thoughts and emotions in order to "do" ACT. You point out, if I read you correctly, that the very process of trying so hard to do ACT (over-attending/monitoring) can trip us up as well. It's sometimes referred to as blunt-force ACT, or over-thinking ACT, and that is so easy to fall into and perhaps inevitable to beginners. It's only when we can do ACT on automatic pilot (there will be exceptions) that it becomes ever so powerful - and that takes practice AND valued action. It is hard to explain - have you ever tried to explain to a child how to balance yourself on a bike?

Like Bill C often says (and I paraphrase), you can't learn to play the piano by reading a book or thinking about the musical notes on the page in front of you - you have to put your fingers on the piano, again and again. You will hit many sour notes at first, but eventually, you will be able to play the Moonlight Sonata (my goal as a piano student) flawlessly. I can "play ACT" at a higher level than I could two years ago, but I am far from being a virtuoso and, as I stretch myself, my playing is far from automatic because I want to learn new pieces.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:36:19 AMSubject: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!!

For me ACT feels like the opposite of a struggle. It is a "letting go" therapy. Physically struggling with anything , or allowing urself to expreince the struggle is very exhausting, instead letting go , just like u would let go of the rope in the tug of war, is relieving, frightening no doubt becoz the perceived danger from letting go seems much more threatening than it actually is, however still letting go will not physically and emotionally drain u as much as struggling will.I feel like there is a lotta focus on ACT and what it is asking u to do, and how to do it. The struggle, the meditation etc. meditation to me is simply "BE"..thats it. so "let go and just be". overly attending our anxiety, too much monitoring of the anxiety, when it happens, does not help either (from my own personal expereince). Coz it prevents u to "just be" in the moment, as is, and also over attending and over monitoring comes atttached with judgements and evalutaions of the experiences. hence "feeling like a failure" sometimes, would be the evaluation of the expereince.recovery is not a bad word..positive thinking is an excellent thing. however what one views as recovery is imp.. If the desire to minimze anxiety in the long run throughh ACT is recovery , then that is a slippery slope...coz "anxiety minized in time, from practise, with ACT" , that is not at all a garantee (no doubt it COULD be a bi-product) , the only garantee we have is that anxiety FLUCTUATES at diff levels, in diff times, in diff. situations. what can we do for ourselves knowing this ? we can have more compasssion for our experiences. What i sensed here (and i could be totally wrong so plz forgive me) but both the emails, i sensed coming down too hard on urself FOR THE TIMES WHEN ANXIETY is showing up. Thats where i c the problem.Lastly ACT can be as simple or as complex as we want it to be. It can be as simple as expand, expereince, show compassion for that expereince, and keep moving.KV and if i have misundertood ur emails, i do truly apologize. I don't usually like to reply to peoples emails , coz i don't wanna offend anyone, plus the likelyhood of me misunderstanding someones point of view is very high. However the only reason i did is coz i could absolutely relate to the things u r going through, as i had a day full of practising my "expansion, compassion, moving forward" skills to the fullest:-) , a few days back. My anxiety was pretty high and throughout my day as i went from strore to store running earrins. Hoever the only think i was able to do diffreenly perhaps was not keep a tab on when it went up, when it was stable, when it came down,and for howlong it stayed, how did it feel when it was high, what act technique i used at those moments etc etc.... so basically did not oevrly attend to it, even thought it was in full gear. The other thing is once u overly attend to anxiety, u r ALSO missing out on the little positive moments that come and go at that time as well, as u r unable to be in that moment fully. Also i was very compassionate with myself , and did not at all label my entire days expereince as a good or bad day, it was just a day , a day i left my house and took care of my chores. being compassionate with myself while i was exprencing the anxiety hence helped me keep moving and completing my task at hand, which was making sure i cover all the stores to get all the necessary items.to me struggling means still not being able to let go of the need to be in control. But we alreday know that anxiety is something , or thoughts and feelings and sensations r something that we cannot have control of anyways, so whats the struggle!...wasalaam:-)-K Designs." Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're already a mile away AND you have their shoes." ~ a very pious intellectual

August 24, 2011

For me a struggle is the balance between letting it be and taking valued action. I seem to want to interpret letting it be as not doing anything. Consequently, I have feelings of failure from failing to take action. Then I feel like taking action compulsively but to no real purpose.I struggle a lot with what to do with my time. I have a really hard time seeing anything as important and valued. One of my values is valuing my family but that seems to involve a lot of just hanging around watching what they're doing. I feel like I need to do something about this but I have no idea how to change. Trying to relax just seems to lead to torpor and boredom. Kind of like meditation for me leads to the avoidance strategy of zoning out or sleeping.Anyway, I relate to having the struggle switch hard to reach. How do people balance the act part of ACT with the acceptance?I think me and you could get along, as I have said here before, ACT for me is an enormous struggle. And I'm not even sure if I can even reach high enough to get to my struggle switch, which is also in the most awkward place.I often too feel a failure, but the parodox is, this is also a feeling, or thought, not to get entangled up with. And struggling to turn the struggle switch off is not the answer either. For me, I allow the struggle switch to stay on and let my body go through the motions of struggle but without adding more resistance, as best as I can that is - I allow things to be without adding more struggle. Believe it or not, this seems to be the start of ceasing to struggle. Damn tricky this one for sure.Mediation is a good example, do your best to make it happen and it won't, because meditation is about allowing things to be. Sometimes - in fact most of the time - meditation for me is not that good, but if I try to force it more it gets a lot worse. At other times when I let go and allow things to be, my mind slows down a bit and I can glimpse a small amount of peace - and this is amazing when it occurs in my terrified body.As say's, you can knock the power out of struggle - and take the wind from its sails - by willingly allowing things to be. (I'm paraphrasing here, this is not exactly what he said, but I think that is the gist of it).Some folk here think that the mindfulness part of ACT is not that unimportant, but I guess everyone is different. I know for me that without more success at mindfulness I will continue to go around in circles. I'm caught in viscious circle, but I think I am on the road to recovery. (By the way, talking about recovery is sometimes frowned upon by folk here, because this is not considered to be true acceptance, and maybe they're right, but what's wrong in wanting to feel smoother, healtier, more at peace with yourself, and more relaxed? Boy, I crave it).Kv >> I am trying to look at this in a humorous "holding lightly" way but I am really having trouble with the acceptance of anxiety. There are parts of my job that I feel very confident about but I can change in a split second and I don't like that I can't stop it. When I come in contact with some students i can be overcome by feelings of self-doubt and the urge to stop the feeling is so strong. I try to just let it be but I've not been able to stop feeling threatened by it. It still feels so dangerous and then I feel like a failure because I have not been successful in letting it just be there. The whole idea of ACT makes so much sense but when it is a strong emotion I don't seem to be able to make it work. I keep thinking why can't I hold on to that feeling of confidence. I just don't trust anxiety. I feel like it has such potential to get out of control. Intellectually I get it, but not experientially.>

August 24, 2011

This is a very good message for me. I feel like I'm overly mindful, so that I'm again stuck in my mind and not in my life. How does one balance attending to what's present with living with any kind of freedom? I feel like I've been tripped up by the observing the raisin example. Unfortunately, the main thing I'm mindful of is my anxiety level, whether it's high or low. I know that's not the only element of life that is present but it's always in the forefront and dominates my attention.Thanks for the reminder that there is a balance to be struck. I think I am over-literal in my ACT interpretations sometimes.BruceThe main idea I got from this, , is the concept of over-attending and over-monitoring ones thoughts and emotions in order to "do" ACT. You point out, if I read you correctly, that the very process of trying so hard to do ACT (over-attending/monitoring) can trip us up as well. It's sometimes referred to as blunt-force ACT, or over-thinking ACT, and that is so easy to fall into and perhaps inevitable to beginners. It's only when we can do ACT on automatic pilot (there will be exceptions) that it becomes ever so powerful - and that takes practice AND valued action. It is hard to explain - have you ever tried to explain to a child how to balance yourself on a bike? Like Bill C often says (and I paraphrase), you can't learn to play the piano by reading a book or thinking about the musical notes on the page in front of you - you have to put your fingers on the piano, again and again. You will hit many sour notes at first, but eventually, you will be able to play the Moonlight Sonata (my goal as a piano student) flawlessly. I can "play ACT" at a higher level than I could two years ago, but I am far from being a virtuoso and, as I stretch myself, my playing is far from automatic because I want to learn new pieces. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:36:19 AMSubject: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!! For me ACT feels like the opposite of a struggle. It is a "letting go" therapy. Physically struggling with anything , or allowing urself to expreince the struggle is very exhausting, instead letting go , just like u would let go of the rope in the tug of war, is relieving, frightening no doubt becoz the perceived danger from letting go seems much more threatening than it actually is, however still letting go will not physically and emotionally drain u as much as struggling will.I feel like there is a lotta focus on ACT and what it is asking u to do, and how to do it. The struggle, the meditation etc. meditation to me is simply "BE"..thats it. so "let go and just be". overly attending our anxiety, too much monitoring of the anxiety, when it happens, does not help either (from my own personal expereince). Coz it prevents u to "just be" in the moment, as is, and also over attending and over monitoring comes atttached with judgements and evalutaions of the experiences. hence "feeling like a failure" sometimes, would be the evaluation of the expereince.recovery is not a bad word..positive thinking is an excellent thing. however what one views as recovery is imp.. If the desire to minimze anxiety in the long run throughh ACT is recovery , then that is a slippery slope...coz "anxiety minized in time, from practise, with ACT" , that is not at all a garantee (no doubt it COULD be a bi-product) , the only garantee we have is that anxiety FLUCTUATES at diff levels, in diff times, in diff. situations. what can we do for ourselves knowing this ? we can have more compasssion for our experiences. What i sensed here (and i could be totally wrong so plz forgive me) but both the emails, i sensed coming down too hard on urself FOR THE TIMES WHEN ANXIETY is showing up. Thats where i c the problem.Lastly ACT can be as simple or as complex as we want it to be. It can be as simple as expand, expereince, show compassion for that expereince, and keep moving.KV and if i have misundertood ur emails, i do truly apologize. I don't usually like to reply to peoples emails , coz i don't wanna offend anyone, plus the likelyhood of me misunderstanding someones point of view is very high. However the only reason i did is coz i could absolutely relate to the things u r going through, as i had a day full of practising my "expansion, compassion, moving forward" skills to the fullest:-) , a few days back. My anxiety was pretty high and throughout my day as i went from strore to store running earrins. Hoever the only think i was able to do diffreenly perhaps was not keep a tab on when it went up, when it was stable, when it came down,and for howlong it stayed, how did it feel when it was high, what act technique i used at those moments etc etc.... so basically did not oevrly attend to it, even thought it was in full gear. The other thing is once u overly attend to anxiety, u r ALSO missing out on the little positive moments that come and go at that time as well, as u r unable to be in that moment fully. Also i was very compassionate with myself , and did not at all label my entire days expereince as a good or bad day, it was just a day , a day i left my house and took care of my chores. being compassionate with myself while i was exprencing the anxiety hence helped me keep moving and completing my task at hand, which was making sure i cover all the stores to get all the necessary items.to me struggling means still not being able to let go of the need to be in control. But we alreday know that anxiety is something , or thoughts and feelings and sensations r something that we cannot have control of anyways, so whats the struggle!...wasalaam:-)-K Designs." Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're already a mile away AND you have their shoes." ~ a very pious intellectual

August 24, 2011

Nice post, Bruce,

You very much speak for me, too.

Kv

>

> >

> > The main idea I got from this, , is the concept of over-

> > attending and over-monitoring ones thoughts and emotions in order to

> > " do " ACT. You point out, if I read you correctly, that the very

> > process of trying so hard to do ACT (over-attending/monitoring) can

> > trip us up as well. It's sometimes referred to as blunt-force ACT,

> > or over-thinking ACT, and that is so easy to fall into and perhaps

> > inevitable to beginners. It's only when we can do ACT on automatic

> > pilot (there will be exceptions) that it becomes ever so powerful -

> > and that takes practice AND valued action. It is hard to explain -

> > have you ever tried to explain to a child how to balance yourself on

> > a bike?

> >

> > Like Bill C often says (and I paraphrase), you can't learn to play

> > the piano by reading a book or thinking about the musical notes on

> > the page in front of you - you have to put your fingers on the

> > piano, again and again. You will hit many sour notes at first, but

> > eventually, you will be able to play the Moonlight Sonata (my goal

> > as a piano student) flawlessly. I can " play ACT " at a higher level

> > than I could two years ago, but I am far from being a virtuoso and,

> > as I stretch myself, my playing is far from automatic because I want

> > to learn new pieces.

> >

> > Helena

> >

> > To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:36:19 AM

> > Subject: Re: letting go of the struggle - not

> > easy!!!!

> >

> > For me ACT feels like the opposite of a struggle. It is a " letting

> > go " therapy. Physically struggling with anything , or allowing

> > urself to expreince the struggle is very exhausting, instead letting

> > go , just like u would let go of the rope in the tug of war, is

> > relieving, frightening no doubt becoz the perceived danger from

> > letting go seems much more threatening than it actually is, however

> > still letting go will not physically and emotionally drain u as much

> > as struggling will.

> >

> > I feel like there is a lotta focus on ACT and what it is asking u to

> > do, and how to do it. The struggle, the meditation etc. meditation

> > to me is simply " BE " ..thats it. so " let go and just be " . overly

> > attending our anxiety, too much monitoring of the anxiety, when it

> > happens, does not help either (from my own personal expereince). Coz

> > it prevents u to " just be " in the moment, as is, and also over

> > attending and over monitoring comes atttached with judgements and

> > evalutaions of the experiences. hence " feeling like a failure "

> > sometimes, would be the evaluation of the expereince.

> >

> > recovery is not a bad word..positive thinking is an excellent thing.

> > however what one views as recovery is imp.. If the desire to minimze

> > anxiety in the long run throughh ACT is recovery , then that is a

> > slippery slope...coz " anxiety minized in time, from practise, with

> > ACT " , that is not at all a garantee (no doubt it COULD be a bi-

> > product) , the only garantee we have is that anxiety FLUCTUATES at

> > diff levels, in diff times, in diff. situations. what can we do for

> > ourselves knowing this ? we can have more compasssion for our

> > experiences. What i sensed here (and i could be totally wrong so plz

> > forgive me) but both the emails, i sensed coming down too hard on

> > urself FOR THE TIMES WHEN ANXIETY is showing up. Thats where i c the

> > problem.

> >

> > Lastly ACT can be as simple or as complex as we want it to be. It

> > can be as simple as expand, expereince, show compassion for that

> > expereince, and keep moving.

> >

> > KV and if i have misundertood ur emails, i do truly

> > apologize. I don't usually like to reply to peoples emails , coz i

> > don't wanna offend anyone, plus the likelyhood of me

> > misunderstanding someones point of view is very high. However the

> > only reason i did is coz i could absolutely relate to the things u r

> > going through, as i had a day full of practising my " expansion,

> > compassion, moving forward " skills to the fullest:-) , a few days

> > back. My anxiety was pretty high and throughout my day as i went

> > from strore to store running earrins. Hoever the only think i was

> > able to do diffreenly perhaps was not keep a tab on when it went up,

> > when it was stable, when it came down,and for howlong it stayed, how

> > did it feel when it was high, what act technique i used at those

> > moments etc etc.... so basically did not oevrly attend to it, even

> > thought it was in full gear. The other thing is once u overly attend

> > to anxiety, u r ALSO missing out on the little positive moments that

> > come and go at that time as well, as u r unable to be in that moment

> > fully. Also i was very compassionate with myself , and did not at

> > all label my entire days expereince as a good or bad day, it was

> > just a day , a day i left my house and took care of my chores. being

> > compassionate with myself while i was exprencing the anxiety hence

> > helped me keep moving and completing my task at hand, which was

> > making sure i cover all the stores to get all the necessary items.

> > to me struggling means still not being able to let go of the need to

> > be in control. But we alreday know that anxiety is something , or

> > thoughts and feelings and sensations r something that we cannot have

> > control of anyways, so whats the struggle!...wasalaam:-)

> >

> > -K Designs.

> >

> > " Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.

> > That way, when you criticize them, you're already a mile away AND

> > you have their shoes. "

> > ~ a very pious intellectual

> >

>

August 24, 2011

Bruce, my "deal" is depression and not anxiety (not the unrelenting kind you have, anyway) and getting stuck in my mind just doesn't come up for me that much anymore. When I am depressed, I give myself permission to be depressed without judging myself or wanting it to be different. If I feel like doing harm to myself or indulging in a bad habit for escape/avoidance, I use that time to just sit on my hands - or I clean the bathroom : )

About two years into my ACT journey (about a year ago), I saw the futility of drinking to escape my pain, and not over-indulging in alcohol any longer is a huge boost to my self esteem and general well-being, and that alone has alleviated a lot of my depression. Now when I have a glass of wine, it's to enjoy it and not to drown my sorrows.

Although the principles of ACT are the same for anxiety and depression, how they are executed may be quite different, I think. For depression, just taking action toward one's values is often enough to lift the depression. With anxiety, it comes along for the ride when you are taking action. I hope someone else can answer your question from an anxiety point of view. It befuddles me and you have my sympathy!

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:18:19 PMSubject: Re: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!!

This is a very good message for me. I feel like I'm overly mindful, so that I'm again stuck in my mind and not in my life. How does one balance attending to what's present with living with any kind of freedom? I feel like I've been tripped up by the observing the raisin example. Unfortunately, the main thing I'm mindful of is my anxiety level, whether it's high or low. I know that's not the only element of life that is present but it's always in the forefront and dominates my attention.

Thanks for the reminder that there is a balance to be struck. I think I am over-literal in my ACT interpretations sometimes.

Bruce

The main idea I got from this, , is the concept of over-attending and over-monitoring ones thoughts and emotions in order to "do" ACT. You point out, if I read you correctly, that the very process of trying so hard to do ACT (over-attending/monitoring) can trip us up as well. It's sometimes referred to as blunt-force ACT, or over-thinking ACT, and that is so easy to fall into and perhaps inevitable to beginners. It's only when we can do ACT on automatic pilot (there will be exceptions) that it becomes ever so powerful - and that takes practice AND valued action. It is hard to explain - have you ever tried to explain to a child how to balance yourself on a bike?

Like Bill C often says (and I paraphrase), you can't learn to play the piano by reading a book or thinking about the musical notes on the page in front of you - you have to put your fingers on the piano, again and again. You will hit many sour notes at first, but eventually, you will be able to play the Moonlight Sonata (my goal as a piano student) flawlessly. I can "play ACT" at a higher level than I could two years ago, but I am far from being a virtuoso and, as I stretch myself, my playing is far from automatic because I want to learn new pieces.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:36:19 AMSubject: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!!

For me ACT feels like the opposite of a struggle. It is a "letting go" therapy. Physically struggling with anything , or allowing urself to expreince the struggle is very exhausting, instead letting go , just like u would let go of the rope in the tug of war, is relieving, frightening no doubt becoz the perceived danger from letting go seems much more threatening than it actually is, however still letting go will not physically and emotionally drain u as much as struggling will.I feel like there is a lotta focus on ACT and what it is asking u to do, and how to do it. The struggle, the meditation etc. meditation to me is simply "BE"..thats it. so "let go and just be". overly attending our anxiety, too much monitoring of the anxiety, when it happens, does not help either (from my own personal expereince). Coz it prevents u to "just be" in the moment, as is, and also over attending and over monitoring comes atttached with judgements and evalutaions of the experiences. hence "feeling like a failure" sometimes, would be the evaluation of the expereince.recovery is not a bad word..positive thinking is an excellent thing. however what one views as recovery is imp.. If the desire to minimze anxiety in the long run throughh ACT is recovery , then that is a slippery slope...coz "anxiety minized in time, from practise, with ACT" , that is not at all a garantee (no doubt it COULD be a bi-product) , the only garantee we have is that anxiety FLUCTUATES at diff levels, in diff times, in diff. situations. what can we do for ourselves knowing this ? we can have more compasssion for our experiences. What i sensed here (and i could be totally wrong so plz forgive me) but both the emails, i sensed coming down too hard on urself FOR THE TIMES WHEN ANXIETY is showing up. Thats where i c the problem.Lastly ACT can be as simple or as complex as we want it to be. It can be as simple as expand, expereince, show compassion for that expereince, and keep moving.KV and if i have misundertood ur emails, i do truly apologize. I don't usually like to reply to peoples emails , coz i don't wanna offend anyone, plus the likelyhood of me misunderstanding someones point of view is very high. However the only reason i did is coz i could absolutely relate to the things u r going through, as i had a day full of practising my "expansion, compassion, moving forward" skills to the fullest:-) , a few days back. My anxiety was pretty high and throughout my day as i went from strore to store running earrins. Hoever the only think i was able to do diffreenly perhaps was not keep a tab on when it went up, when it was stable, when it came down,and for howlong it stayed, how did it feel when it was high, what act technique i used at those moments etc etc.... so basically did not oevrly attend to it, even thought it was in full gear. The other thing is once u overly attend to anxiety, u r ALSO missing out on the little positive moments that come and go at that time as well, as u r unable to be in that moment fully. Also i was very compassionate with myself , and did not at all label my entire days expereince as a good or bad day, it was just a day , a day i left my house and took care of my chores. being compassionate with myself while i was exprencing the anxiety hence helped me keep moving and completing my task at hand, which was making sure i cover all the stores to get all the necessary items.to me struggling means still not being able to let go of the need to be in control. But we alreday know that anxiety is something , or thoughts and feelings and sensations r something that we cannot have control of anyways, so whats the struggle!...wasalaam:-)-K Designs." Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're already a mile away AND you have their shoes." ~ a very pious intellectual

August 24, 2011

With regards to " struggling with ACT, " I am not so sure that the

problem is that we struggle. We all struggle. Our mistake is

thinking we shouldn't.

In fact, thinking is over-rated in every respect. Doing is

under-rated. Got a thought? Sure. Who doesn't?

So I'd like to share a list of the things I DO on a regular basis. I

have written them up as reminders to myself.

1) Keep a meditation practice. Daily if possible. Ten minutes a day

is good. Something like counting the breath (Zen) or watching the

breath (Vipassana). Do it " without expectations " in the sense that

although you will have lots of thoughts about expectations, you keep

doing it anyway.

2) Notice how your thoughts keep wrapping you up in your content

without your even really knowing it. When you say " I'm struggling,

ACT is really hard, I need better mindfulness skills, the anxiety

just gets at me and I don't know what to do, I'm not working on my

values, " etc. - well, all this could be true; and yet it is also

content. See if you can catch how clever thoughts are at telling you

what is really true. Like right now. And right now. Then imagine you

are someone else. Make it a game. Actually do something someone else

would do. (Ouch! Someone just stuck a pin in your Content Voodoo

Doll.)

3) " Values " is less useful than " valuing. " Values are something you

write down on a piece of paper or worry about. Valuing is something

you do. Worrying is fine. Do some doing along with it.

4) Remember that valuing does not make problems go away or somehow

make life easier. Valuing may mean you start doing stuff and failing

painfully or sharply sometimes. If you stop valuing, you will always

know the future and it will always suck. Your choice!

5) And remember that valuing in an important area may raise a LOT of

barriers when you start succeeding. In other words, if you start

doing some effective valuing - even in a very small way - your mind

may kick in extra-hard and start telling you that you are really

screwing up and should quit whatever it is you are doing! See if you

can notice the paradox.

6) If you are kicking yourself for this, that, and the other reason,

notice that you are kicking yourself. Notice you are kicking

yourself for kicking yourself. Spend a little time with this. Ask

yourself why you kick yourself. Watch what comes up as an answer.

You may discover something interesting. Ask yourself, who am I

keeping happy by doing this? Say it is like someone standing right

behind me telling me what to do. If I turn suddenly around, who will

be standing there?

7) When it comes to " not living my values " or " being lazy " or

" taking the easy way out " or whatever it may be, try thinking of

yourself as if you are in training, like an athlete. Every time you

do X (the " easy way out " ) you train yourself to do X even better

than you already do. X may feel very comfortable. Beating yourself

up about X may also feel very comfortable. Doing Y ( " something that

would be about your values " ) may feel very uncomfortable. Try doing

Y anyway and noticing what happens.

8) Notice whether you are afraid to enjoy yourself in life - even

for a moment - because " you know it won't last " and therefore have

to " protect " yourself by not getting " fooled. " If you notice that

this is going on, take a moment to ask yourself the same kinds of

questions you asked about kicking yourself. Who is being protected

here? Where did this rule come from? And who or what is going to

scream bloody murder if you break the rule and enjoy yourself?

9) Remember that as cliched as it may sound by now, you really are

not your thoughts. Even the thoughts you are having right now, the

thoughts that seem so terribly terribly important - yes, those

thoughts. This does not mean that you are not your thoughts, either.

Thoughts are like smells or tastes. You wouldn't want to stop

smelling or tasting, would you? See if you can stop giving thinking

such a hard time and also if you can stop giving it such credit.

- Randy

August 24, 2011

I'm very glad depression doesn't come up for you so much. I also have elements of depression but the anxiety is an every day thing at the moment.I'm also grateful for 's "sitting on my hands" concept, although I do it far too often. But it does help with days where I don't seem to be able to do much of anything. At least I'm not going backwards. I have also given up alcohol and other mood changers so going without a drink is a good day for me.Bruce, my "deal" is depression and not anxiety (not the unrelenting kind you have, anyway) and getting stuck in my mind just doesn't come up for me that much anymore. When I am depressed, I give myself permission to be depressed without judging myself or wanting it to be different. If I feel like doing harm to myself or indulging in a bad habit for escape/avoidance, I use that time to just sit on my hands - or I clean the bathroom : ) About two years into my ACT journey (about a year ago), I saw the futility of drinking to escape my pain, and not over-indulging in alcohol any longer is a huge boost to my self esteem and general well-being, and that alone has alleviated a lot of my depression. Now when I have a glass of wine, it's to enjoy it and not to drown my sorrows. Although the principles of ACT are the same for anxiety and depression, how they are executed may be quite different, I think. For depression, just taking action toward one's values is often enough to lift the depression. With anxiety, it comes along for the ride when you are taking action. I hope someone else can answer your question from an anxiety point of view. It befuddles me and you have my sympathy! HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:18:19 PMSubject: Re: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!! This is a very good message for me. I feel like I'm overly mindful, so that I'm again stuck in my mind and not in my life. How does one balance attending to what's present with living with any kind of freedom? I feel like I've been tripped up by the observing the raisin example. Unfortunately, the main thing I'm mindful of is my anxiety level, whether it's high or low. I know that's not the only element of life that is present but it's always in the forefront and dominates my attention.Thanks for the reminder that there is a balance to be struck. I think I am over-literal in my ACT interpretations sometimes.BruceThe main idea I got from this, , is the concept of over-attending and over-monitoring ones thoughts and emotions in order to "do" ACT. You point out, if I read you correctly, that the very process of trying so hard to do ACT (over-attending/monitoring) can trip us up as well. It's sometimes referred to as blunt-force ACT, or over-thinking ACT, and that is so easy to fall into and perhaps inevitable to beginners. It's only when we can do ACT on automatic pilot (there will be exceptions) that it becomes ever so powerful - and that takes practice AND valued action. It is hard to explain - have you ever tried to explain to a child how to balance yourself on a bike? Like Bill C often says (and I paraphrase), you can't learn to play the piano by reading a book or thinking about the musical notes on the page in front of you - you have to put your fingers on the piano, again and again. You will hit many sour notes at first, but eventually, you will be able to play the Moonlight Sonata (my goal as a piano student) flawlessly. I can "play ACT" at a higher level than I could two years ago, but I am far from being a virtuoso and, as I stretch myself, my playing is far from automatic because I want to learn new pieces. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:36:19 AMSubject: Re: letting go of the struggle - not easy!!!! For me ACT feels like the opposite of a struggle. It is a "letting go" therapy. Physically struggling with anything , or allowing urself to expreince the struggle is very exhausting, instead letting go , just like u would let go of the rope in the tug of war, is relieving, frightening no doubt becoz the perceived danger from letting go seems much more threatening than it actually is, however still letting go will not physically and emotionally drain u as much as struggling will.I feel like there is a lotta focus on ACT and what it is asking u to do, and how to do it. The struggle, the meditation etc. meditation to me is simply "BE"..thats it. so "let go and just be". overly attending our anxiety, too much monitoring of the anxiety, when it happens, does not help either (from my own personal expereince). Coz it prevents u to "just be" in the moment, as is, and also over attending and over monitoring comes atttached with judgements and evalutaions of the experiences. hence "feeling like a failure" sometimes, would be the evaluation of the expereince.recovery is not a bad word..positive thinking is an excellent thing. however what one views as recovery is imp.. If the desire to minimze anxiety in the long run throughh ACT is recovery , then that is a slippery slope...coz "anxiety minized in time, from practise, with ACT" , that is not at all a garantee (no doubt it COULD be a bi-product) , the only garantee we have is that anxiety FLUCTUATES at diff levels, in diff times, in diff. situations. what can we do for ourselves knowing this ? we can have more compasssion for our experiences. What i sensed here (and i could be totally wrong so plz forgive me) but both the emails, i sensed coming down too hard on urself FOR THE TIMES WHEN ANXIETY is showing up. Thats where i c the problem.Lastly ACT can be as simple or as complex as we want it to be. It can be as simple as expand, expereince, show compassion for that expereince, and keep moving.KV and if i have misundertood ur emails, i do truly apologize. I don't usually like to reply to peoples emails , coz i don't wanna offend anyone, plus the likelyhood of me misunderstanding someones point of view is very high. However the only reason i did is coz i could absolutely relate to the things u r going through, as i had a day full of practising my "expansion, compassion, moving forward" skills to the fullest:-) , a few days back. My anxiety was pretty high and throughout my day as i went from strore to store running earrins. Hoever the only think i was able to do diffreenly perhaps was not keep a tab on when it went up, when it was stable, when it came down,and for howlong it stayed, how did it feel when it was high, what act technique i used at those moments etc etc.... so basically did not oevrly attend to it, even thought it was in full gear. The other thing is once u overly attend to anxiety, u r ALSO missing out on the little positive moments that come and go at that time as well, as u r unable to be in that moment fully. Also i was very compassionate with myself , and did not at all label my entire days expereince as a good or bad day, it was just a day , a day i left my house and took care of my chores. being compassionate with myself while i was exprencing the anxiety hence helped me keep moving and completing my task at hand, which was making sure i cover all the stores to get all the necessary items.to me struggling means still not being able to let go of the need to be in control. But we alreday know that anxiety is something , or thoughts and feelings and sensations r something that we cannot have control of anyways, so whats the struggle!...wasalaam:-)-K Designs." Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're already a mile away AND you have their shoes." ~ a very pious intellectual

August 24, 2011

Number 8 has been a very large thread throughout my life. It's second-nature to me.Regards,Detlef>> With regards to "struggling with ACT," I am not so sure that the> problem is that we struggle. We all struggle. Our mistake is> thinking we shouldn't.> > In fact, thinking is over-rated in every respect. Doing is> under-rated. Got a thought? Sure. Who doesn't?> > So I'd like to share a list of the things I DO on a regular basis. I> have written them up as reminders to myself.<snip>> > 8) Notice whether you are afraid to enjoy yourself in life - even> for a moment - because "you know it won't last" and therefore have> to "protect" yourself by not getting "fooled." If you notice that> this is going on, take a moment to ask yourself the same kinds of> questions you asked about kicking yourself. Who is being protected> here? Where did this rule come from? And who or what is going to> scream bloody murder if you break the rule and enjoy yourself? <snip>

August 24, 2011

I've put out too many posts recently but I felt I had to respond to this one. A

superb and very useful post, Randy.

Kv

>

> With regards to " struggling with ACT, " I am not so sure that the

> problem is that we struggle. We all struggle. Our mistake is

> thinking we shouldn't.

>

> In fact, thinking is over-rated in every respect. Doing is

> under-rated. Got a thought? Sure. Who doesn't?

>

> So I'd like to share a list of the things I DO on a regular basis. I

> have written them up as reminders to myself.

>

> 1) Keep a meditation practice. Daily if possible. Ten minutes a day

> is good. Something like counting the breath (Zen) or watching the

> breath (Vipassana). Do it " without expectations " in the sense that

> although you will have lots of thoughts about expectations, you keep

> doing it anyway.

>

> 2) Notice how your thoughts keep wrapping you up in your content

> without your even really knowing it. When you say " I'm struggling,

> ACT is really hard, I need better mindfulness skills, the anxiety

> just gets at me and I don't know what to do, I'm not working on my

> values, " etc. - well, all this could be true; and yet it is also

> content. See if you can catch how clever thoughts are at telling you

> what is really true. Like right now. And right now. Then imagine you

> are someone else. Make it a game. Actually do something someone else

> would do. (Ouch! Someone just stuck a pin in your Content Voodoo

> Doll.)

>

> 3) " Values " is less useful than " valuing. " Values are something you

> write down on a piece of paper or worry about. Valuing is something

> you do. Worrying is fine. Do some doing along with it.

>

> 4) Remember that valuing does not make problems go away or somehow

> make life easier. Valuing may mean you start doing stuff and failing

> painfully or sharply sometimes. If you stop valuing, you will always

> know the future and it will always suck. Your choice!

>

> 5) And remember that valuing in an important area may raise a LOT of

> barriers when you start succeeding. In other words, if you start

> doing some effective valuing - even in a very small way - your mind

> may kick in extra-hard and start telling you that you are really

> screwing up and should quit whatever it is you are doing! See if you

> can notice the paradox.

>

> 6) If you are kicking yourself for this, that, and the other reason,

> notice that you are kicking yourself. Notice you are kicking

> yourself for kicking yourself. Spend a little time with this. Ask

> yourself why you kick yourself. Watch what comes up as an answer.

> You may discover something interesting. Ask yourself, who am I

> keeping happy by doing this? Say it is like someone standing right

> behind me telling me what to do. If I turn suddenly around, who will

> be standing there?

>

> 7) When it comes to " not living my values " or " being lazy " or

> " taking the easy way out " or whatever it may be, try thinking of

> yourself as if you are in training, like an athlete. Every time you

> do X (the " easy way out " ) you train yourself to do X even better

> than you already do. X may feel very comfortable. Beating yourself

> up about X may also feel very comfortable. Doing Y ( " something that

> would be about your values " ) may feel very uncomfortable. Try doing

> Y anyway and noticing what happens.

>

> 8) Notice whether you are afraid to enjoy yourself in life - even

> for a moment - because " you know it won't last " and therefore have

> to " protect " yourself by not getting " fooled. " If you notice that

> this is going on, take a moment to ask yourself the same kinds of

> questions you asked about kicking yourself. Who is being protected

> here? Where did this rule come from? And who or what is going to

> scream bloody murder if you break the rule and enjoy yourself?

>

> 9) Remember that as cliched as it may sound by now, you really are

> not your thoughts. Even the thoughts you are having right now, the

> thoughts that seem so terribly terribly important - yes, those

> thoughts. This does not mean that you are not your thoughts, either.

> Thoughts are like smells or tastes. You wouldn't want to stop

> smelling or tasting, would you? See if you can stop giving thinking

> such a hard time and also if you can stop giving it such credit.

>

> - Randy

>

August 24, 2011

I actually thought this at one point my life, I decided it was a better way to live so as not to be disappointed. I've since learned that everything changes and expecting to hang on to positive aspects of life was not realistic. In the meantime, I was denying myself enjoyment. It really hit home with me when I was leading a neighborhood band and I expected the positive, fun aspects to predominate and expected to avoid the infighting, egos, etc, that I think go along with any band. The show Behind the Music is the story of just about any band and ours was no exception. Expecting harmony was a good way not to get pleasure from playing.Unfortunately, the band is dormant now and I kind of have to accept that it has run its course. It was a good run for almost 10 years, though. My emotions around it were very difficult.One of my activities in life is music and I find without the band, I don't play much. I envy KV and his ability to find pleasure in just playing for fun and mastery. I seem to need the ego fulfillment of performing to motivate me to play. That's a big problem for me. If it doesn't feed my ego, I'm not interested.BruceNumber 8 has been a very large thread throughout my life. It's second-nature to me.Regards,Detlef>> With regards to "struggling with ACT," I am not so sure that the> problem is that we struggle. We all struggle. Our mistake is> thinking we shouldn't.> > In fact, thinking is over-rated in every respect. Doing is> under-rated. Got a thought? Sure. Who doesn't?> > So I'd like to share a list of the things I DO on a regular basis. I> have written them up as reminders to myself.<snip>> > 8) Notice whether you are afraid to enjoy yourself in life - even> for a moment - because "you know it won't last" and therefore have> to "protect" yourself by not getting "fooled." If you notice that> this is going on, take a moment to ask yourself the same kinds of> questions you asked about kicking yourself. Who is being protected> here? Where did this rule come from? And who or what is going to> scream bloody murder if you break the rule and enjoy yourself? <snip>

August 24, 2011

Someone is going to complain about all the posts I have put out pretty soon. I

will try to put out less tomorrow.

You sound just like me, Bruce. But I have been managing to play some piano and

guitar today, although it is very hard to motivate myself to learn my new music

software, or to learn a new song on my piano. I'm never going to get my hit

record out at this rate.

Kv

> > >

> > > With regards to " struggling with ACT, " I am not so sure that the

> > > problem is that we struggle. We all struggle. Our mistake is

> > > thinking we shouldn't.

> > >

> > > In fact, thinking is over-rated in every respect. Doing is

> > > under-rated. Got a thought? Sure. Who doesn't?

> > >

> > > So I'd like to share a list of the things I DO on a regular basis.

> > I> have written them up as reminders to myself.

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > >

> > > 8) Notice whether you are afraid to enjoy yourself in life - even

> > > for a moment - because " you know it won't last " and therefore have

> > > to " protect " yourself by not getting " fooled. " If you notice that

> > > this is going on, take a moment to ask yourself the same kinds of

> > > questions you asked about kicking yourself. Who is being protected

> > > here? Where did this rule come from? And who or what is going to

> > > scream bloody murder if you break the rule and enjoy yourself?

> >

> > <snip>

> >

>

August 24, 2011

Thank you for quoting it! I never saw the original post and can't find it even

now - probably deleted it somehow. And it is a great and timely post - I've been

feeling as though I'm falling back into a black hole and didn't know how to get

the motivation to change course. My routine gets disrupted and it all just goes

out the window.