Re: Oxalate Dumping and Biotin

April 14, 2011

My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats. That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg. That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group gives. Everyone has invaluable insight.FranselSender: taca-usa Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:49:48 -0500To: taca-usa <taca-usa >ReplyTo: taca-usa Subject: Re: Raw cracking lips When my son had cracked lips and hair loss it was due to Vitamin A ... At a toxic level... Sent from my iPhone> Oh I have heard of people getting die-off effects just by adding in biotin.> So I guess a word of warning on that.> > > >> Biotin. Add heaps of it. It helps control yeast too. His bad attitude if>> you want to call it that the last few days could be oxalate dumping. Have>> you run out or stopped giving a high oxalate food recently? Nuts, spinach,>> rhubarb, quinoa, almond flour?>> >> Or if you haven't stopped giving those, but he eats a lot of that stuff, he>> just may be dumping oxalate from his cells deciding it's time to dump. I>> know you are treating for yeast too... the symptoms of yeast die-off and>> oxalate dumping look a lot alike.>> >> So anyway, the reason I mention this, oxalate messes with biotin so you can>> get biotin deficiency symptoms when oxalate is circulating (via high intake>> or dumping), like dry skin, chapped lips.>> >> Biotin regular supp dose is 300mcg. People doing the " low oxalate diet " >> have been known to take 10-40 milligrams (yes I wrote milligrams, not>> micrograms) to fight off oxalate 'badness.' LOL Maybe someone knows if yeast>> treatments causes oxalate to dump? Even if it isn't oxalate, biotin will>> help if you want to put something in and not on.>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone observed this! Is it a vitamin deficiency or too much of one?>>> My doc also noted falling hair due to Diflucan.>>> Fransel>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -->> Toni>> >> ------>> Mind like a steel trap...>> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.>> > > > > -- > Toni> > ------> Mind like a steel trap...> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.> > >

April 14, 2011

You'd have to determine whether or not he has an oxalate issue. My daughter has an oxalate issue. I could tell she had an oxalate issue because she had chronic diarrhea and in the diarrhea, there were black specs. It was diarrhea that I couldn't stop by any other means than to go SCD/low oxalates. She had sandy stools, too. There were tiny little hard specs in it. She's still in diapers and when she poops, it sticks to her butt and is hard to wipe off. If she just had a BM, it sticks as though it were dried on there and was there for hours. That's an oxalate dump.

Other indications of oxalate problems is when supps don't quite work as they should because oxalates are crowding the inside of cells. You're giving everything that you should with a supp to make it absorbable but it still doesn't quite work. That was an indication of oxalates in my daughter.

Cloudy urine is another sign. It's because when they urinate, they sometimes pass oxalates through urine and they come out as these tiny, tiny crystals that when you look at it, it looks like it's cloudy.

My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats. That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg. That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group gives. Everyone has invaluable insight. Fransel

Sender: taca-usa

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:49:48 -0500

To: taca-usa <taca-usa >

ReplyTo: taca-usa

Subject: Re: Raw cracking lips

When my son had cracked lips and hair loss it was due to Vitamin A ... At a toxic level... Sent from my iPhone

> Oh I have heard of people getting die-off effects just by adding in biotin.> So I guess a word of warning on that.> >

> >> Biotin. Add heaps of it. It helps control yeast too. His bad attitude if>> you want to call it that the last few days could be oxalate dumping. Have>> you run out or stopped giving a high oxalate food recently? Nuts, spinach,

>> rhubarb, quinoa, almond flour?>> >> Or if you haven't stopped giving those, but he eats a lot of that stuff, he>> just may be dumping oxalate from his cells deciding it's time to dump. I

>> know you are treating for yeast too... the symptoms of yeast die-off and>> oxalate dumping look a lot alike.>> >> So anyway, the reason I mention this, oxalate messes with biotin so you can

>> get biotin deficiency symptoms when oxalate is circulating (via high intake>> or dumping), like dry skin, chapped lips.>> >> Biotin regular supp dose is 300mcg. People doing the " low oxalate diet "

>> have been known to take 10-40 milligrams (yes I wrote milligrams, not>> micrograms) to fight off oxalate 'badness.' LOL Maybe someone knows if yeast>> treatments causes oxalate to dump? Even if it isn't oxalate, biotin will

>> help if you want to put something in and not on.>> >> >>

>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone observed this! Is it a vitamin deficiency or too much of one?>>> My doc also noted falling hair due to Diflucan.>>> Fransel

>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -->> Toni>> >> ------>> Mind like a steel trap...>> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.>>

> > > > -- > Toni> > ------> Mind like a steel trap...> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.> > >

April 15, 2011

When we took plain MB12, we had less reactions than when it was in a

formula with folinic acid and such. But, I am thinking it was extra

die-off because we got an increase in symptoms for nearly 2 months and

then the increase left, and was replaced with gains. It was very

difficult to go through those 2 months of extra die-off.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats.

That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg.

That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and

folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to

methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been

taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and

sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm

him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group

gives. Everyone has invaluable insight.

Fransel

April 16, 2011

Fransel

We use Mag chloride flakes in bath instead of Epsom salts which is Mag sulfate and we use Mag chloride injections instead of Mag. sulfate injections.....because of sulfation issues....these work better in our family.

My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats. That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg. That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group gives. Everyone has invaluable insight. Fransel

Sender: taca-usa

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:49:48 -0500

To: taca-usa <taca-usa >

ReplyTo: taca-usa

Subject: Re: Raw cracking lips

When my son had cracked lips and hair loss it was due to Vitamin A ... At a toxic level... Sent from my iPhone

> Oh I have heard of people getting die-off effects just by adding in biotin.> So I guess a word of warning on that.> >

> >> Biotin. Add heaps of it. It helps control yeast too. His bad attitude if>> you want to call it that the last few days could be oxalate dumping. Have>> you run out or stopped giving a high oxalate food recently? Nuts, spinach,

>> rhubarb, quinoa, almond flour?>> >> Or if you haven't stopped giving those, but he eats a lot of that stuff, he>> just may be dumping oxalate from his cells deciding it's time to dump. I

>> know you are treating for yeast too... the symptoms of yeast die-off and>> oxalate dumping look a lot alike.>> >> So anyway, the reason I mention this, oxalate messes with biotin so you can

>> get biotin deficiency symptoms when oxalate is circulating (via high intake>> or dumping), like dry skin, chapped lips.>> >> Biotin regular supp dose is 300mcg. People doing the " low oxalate diet "

>> have been known to take 10-40 milligrams (yes I wrote milligrams, not>> micrograms) to fight off oxalate 'badness.' LOL Maybe someone knows if yeast>> treatments causes oxalate to dump? Even if it isn't oxalate, biotin will

>> help if you want to put something in and not on.>> >> >>

>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone observed this! Is it a vitamin deficiency or too much of one?>>> My doc also noted falling hair due to Diflucan.>>> Fransel

>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -->> Toni>> >> ------>> Mind like a steel trap...>> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.>>

> > > > -- > Toni> > ------> Mind like a steel trap...> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.> > >

April 18, 2011

Hello Everyone,

I have 13 years olds son. He is autistic and have lyme. I did try everything he

is in SCD ANd GAP diet. Lately his sleeping is not good he has a lot of sensory

issue . He is un settle screams all the time he can not be quit. Somebody

suggested to me her son was like that and when she star Low Oxalate diet he

changed. I am so confuse know because everything I give him is high oxalate. I

need help!!!

I saw her son and he is quit and you can not even recognize weather he is

autistic/lyme or not. Is there any one of the group who did this diet and get

good success.Since 2004 I have been on the road and I am keep correcting my

mistake and I am not even there yet. He is with DR K. last 2 years. He is not

verbal I mean he ihas view words one single word but his understanding improve

but he is going through a lot.

Thank you.

Idman

>

> When we took plain MB12, we had less reactions than when it was in a

> formula with folinic acid and such. But, I am thinking it was extra

> die-off because we got an increase in symptoms for nearly 2 months and

> then the increase left, and was replaced with gains. It was very

> difficult to go through those 2 months of extra die-off.

>

> Love and prayers,

>

> Heidi N

>

> My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats.

> That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg.

> That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and

> folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to

> methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been

> taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and

> sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm

> him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group

> gives. Everyone has invaluable insight.

> Fransel

>

April 18, 2011

Hi Idman,

My son has been on the LOD diet for more than an year and prior to that we did

the BED and GAPS diets, but the LOD is the only diet that for first time we saw

actually improvements, so I highly encourage you to try it if you suspect your

son has oxalates problem. I still do some of the things from the BED diet (like

fermenting vegetables and young coconut water) and thankfully to the LOD diet my

son doesn't have anymore any urinating accidents (he used to urinate very often

when he was on the BED diet, so that's when I started suspecting oxalates

problem) and he is much much calmer, than before.

There is yahoo group " Trying_Low_Oxalates " which I think it would be very useful

to join it, if you haven't done it already. Tons of good info, how to start,

recipies, also the moderator of the group - Owens is a scientist who

started the whole connection between LOD and autism and she is also very helpful

and almost always answers if you have any specific questions.

HTH,

Krassi

> >

> > When we took plain MB12, we had less reactions than when it was in a

> > formula with folinic acid and such. But, I am thinking it was extra

> > die-off because we got an increase in symptoms for nearly 2 months and

> > then the increase left, and was replaced with gains. It was very

> > difficult to go through those 2 months of extra die-off.

> >

> > Love and prayers,

> >

> > Heidi N

> >

> > My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats.

> > That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg.

> > That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and

> > folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to

> > methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been

> > taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and

> > sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm

> > him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group

> > gives. Everyone has invaluable insight.

> > Fransel

> >

>

April 18, 2011

Thank you Krassi, I order the cook book and join those yahoo groups.

and Vit K C.Tamara. they both talking about how to adress Oxalate and

different approach it is confusing.The main reason I am interesting the child

I saw is one of the patient of DK and he is doing same protocol of my son

Babasia and parasite and also doing injection DMPS and still calm. I always

think my son is not calm because he i dealing a hard protocls but that is not

the case. I tested oxalate my son.I did 24hr urining collection and was

negative more than two times that was long time a go.what is confusing me is my

son has normal bawol movement and normal form. but that lady when she saw my son

she said he has oxalate issue. I never see any good improvment my son and I did

everything you name it.

Idman

> > >

> > > When we took plain MB12, we had less reactions than when it was in a

> > > formula with folinic acid and such. But, I am thinking it was extra

> > > die-off because we got an increase in symptoms for nearly 2 months and

> > > then the increase left, and was replaced with gains. It was very

> > > difficult to go through those 2 months of extra die-off.

> > >

> > > Love and prayers,

> > >

> > > Heidi N

> > >

> > > My son is on SCD so he eats lots of nuts fruits vegetables and meats.

> > > That means high oxalates right? He is already taking Biotin8 at 8000mcg.

> > > That's plenty right? We also recently stopped MB12 shots with Nac and

> > > folinic as someone. mentioned that may be causing problems due to

> > > methylation. He did well when it was plain MB12 but since he has been

> > > taking it for over a year doc said stop. I read methylation and

> > > sulfation problems here. My son just started magnesium sulfate to calm

> > > him also. Is this a sulfation issue? I love the support this group

> > > gives. Everyone has invaluable insight.

> > > Fransel

> > >

> >

>

April 18, 2011

Idman,

The urine testing for oxalates is not accurate (the same as you have heard

already about testing for parasites, lyme and strep – you can always have false

negative, I wish also things were easier with our kids and we had some reliable

testings), so your best test is to go on low/medium oxalates foods for 1-2 weeks

and if you see any improvements than you are on the right path.

My son also had normal bowel movements when he was still high on oxalates. The

only reason I suspected high oxalates was because he was urinating frequently,

as I mentioned already and because he was very easily irritable. It was obvious

that something was bothering him, although all the healthy foods I was giving

him (he has been organic, GF/CF/SF and everything home-made for the last 3

years).

So the first week we went with low and medium oxalate foods he immediately

started urinating only once per hour (this was huge for us because prior to that

every 10 min) and he became calmer happier boy. The beauty of the LOD diet is

that you see the positives very soon, so you don't need to wait too long to

decide if it is right for you or not.

The only concerning part is once the body starts clearing from the oxalates – as

in our case this started approximately 3-4 weeks after we started the LOD. My

son was in big pain when urinating, so this is when was extremely helpful

because she told me what supplements to give him to easy the dumping.

This is when I realized how huge problem my son had and how the previous diet –

the BED was not good for him, because his body was not processing the oxalates

from quinoa and millet flours (my son used to eat BED bread made from quinoa and

millet) and all the nuts.

I am not saying BED or SCD is bad for everybody, I have heard many kids to

amazing progress with these diets. But in our case it was not good and in fact

was doing more harm than good.

So my advice is – simply try it for 1-2 weeks and see if it is right for your

son.

Good luck!

Krassi

>

> Thank you Krassi, I order the cook book and join those yahoo groups.

> and Vit K C.Tamara. they both talking about how to adress Oxalate and