Re: Re: Exercise and avoidance

[Guest guest]

This is just my observations as a jogger - a bad jogger at that.You have to put a bit of stress on your body, not a lot but enough so that you are making 'training progress'.  Does that make sense?  Maybe in the case of biking, just rolling around casually is not enough.  This is just my guess though

After about 20 minutes of this type of exercise, you should begin to notice a positive mood boost.  I find a new sense of focus and energy shortly after the run is over.However, I have also had bad anxiety begin while running and occasionally came close to stopping and crying due to sudden depression (this happened last week as a matter of fact)

I have always assumed that exercise raises your bodies activity levels and that may trigger an anxiety response.  If you begin your exercise with some issues on your mind, the physical response to the exercise may bring your anxiety forward.

I try to run with a clear mind.  Maybe not mindful, but at least non-judgmental of what you see and what you feel.

>

> It seems like a pretty universal prescription for anxiety and

> depression is physical exercise. I've been trying to incorporate more

> exercise into my life, particularly cycling. I have to say I don't

> exercise that hard but I go for half an hour to an hour most days.

> Walking is the activity when I can't cycle.

>

> So far I have gotten very little mood improvement from this. My energy

> isn't any better. And right after exercise, I can have a mood crash as

> easily as any other time. I recently finished a 25 mile cycle event

> and got a punch of anxiety/depression just a few minutes later. This

> baffles me and seems to go against conventional wisdom.

>

> Is it possible that using exercise to feel better is avoidant and

> therefore doomed to failure? Mood elevation is not the only reason I

> exercise. I also would like to lose some weight, and increase my

> energy and general health. But the top reason is to feel better

> mentally. Do I have to accept that exercising is not going to make me

> feel any better?

>

> Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.

>

> Bruce

>

[Guest guest]

That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to be released by exercise that would lead to mood bump. Hi Bruce,Exercise alone won't cure any significant mood problems and checking after a bout of strenuous exercise for any immediate improvement in your mental state is what calls "mental quicksand:" guaranteed to produce the opposite of the intended result. What aerobic exercise does do is help overall mental functioning so that other interventions you're trying such as ACT, mindfulness, individual therapy etc. can have a better chance of working. Hope that helps.Jim>> It seems like a pretty universal prescription for anxiety and > depression is physical exercise. I've been trying to incorporate more > exercise into my life, particularly cycling. I have to say I don't > exercise that hard but I go for half an hour to an hour most days. > Walking is the activity when I can't cycle.> > So far I have gotten very little mood improvement from this. My energy > isn't any better. And right after exercise, I can have a mood crash as > easily as any other time. I recently finished a 25 mile cycle event > and got a punch of anxiety/depression just a few minutes later. This > baffles me and seems to go against conventional wisdom.> > Is it possible that using exercise to feel better is avoidant and > therefore doomed to failure? Mood elevation is not the only reason I > exercise. I also would like to lose some weight, and increase my > energy and general health. But the top reason is to feel better > mentally. Do I have to accept that exercising is not going to make me > feel any better?> > Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.> > Bruce>

[Guest guest]

One thing I thought about the book is the continual mentions of how self-compassionate people are happier. That just made me feel bad that I'm not one of those people.But I'm trying. It seems ACT-consistent to me, as accepting also means accepting ourselves and all our shortcomings. I certainly need to give myself a break.BruceI'm interested to hear more Randy - what do you see as the book's shortcomings?Kate>> P.S. I have the Neff book too, but personally am not impressed & > would not recommend it to anyone. These types of books are awfully> hard to do. What I would recommend instead, for anyone interested in> her work, is her web site; there she makes available MP3 guided> meditations plus articles on self-compassion that provide the gist> of what she has to say:> > http://www.self-compassion.org/>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Randy. It does help to know that others have similar issues. Your comments have really made me look more deeply into acceptance and how I'm dealing with it presently. I know that my fear is cutting me off from life and leading to some of the very situations I fear. Yet I have deep conditioning that anxiety and anticipating problems will help me avoid unpleasant situations. These two ideas are opposing. Right now, I'm choosing to believe at some deep level in the utility of fear. I don't want to, I want to choose life and participating in it fully. But I can see that I'm making the choice. It's just so darn hard to change. The "demons on the boat" or "passengers on the bus" illustrations are really pertinent to me right now.BruceHey Bruce,Thanks for writing back. I'm glad my question was not out of bounds & am appreciative of what you say.A lot of your issues sound similar to my issues. I can take nearlyevery one of the sentences from your post & match it with a similarsentence of my own; this to me suggests we have a very similartendency towards lots & lots of evaluative thoughts. We could do afun exercise trading thoughts for a day, or being each other'sminds!I think you are right that ACT offers a path to a life which is notbuilt around depression or anxiety. And I think is right insuggesting that this path is an indirect one. ACT-inspired writerslike are constantly remarking on both sadness & joy anddo not seem to push one away to make room for the other. I stillremember 's poem about how joy arrives on its own rather thanbeing waited for - Helena reposted that poem in this message:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/15045Anyway, good luck to us both, and I hope we can keep sharing usefulinformation as we come across it in our lives.- RandyP.S. I have the Neff book too, but personally am not impressed & would not recommend it to anyone. These types of books are awfullyhard to do. What I would recommend instead, for anyone interested inher work, is her web site; there she makes available MP3 guidedmeditations plus articles on self-compassion that provide the gistof what she has to say:http://www.self-compassion.org/