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Does the thought seem or feel any different after rewriting the phrase?D

 

I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the exercises.  I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts.  I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to  do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought.  Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s).  I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that.  I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death.  I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering  I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these  problems overwhelm me.  

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof.   " I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )  

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Does the thought seem or feel any different after rewriting the phrase?D

 

I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the exercises.  I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts.  I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to  do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought.  Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s).  I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that.  I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death.  I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering  I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these  problems overwhelm me.  

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof.   " I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )  

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>

> What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then

> rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused

> thought and try to make it a replacement.

>

> So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then

> I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

>

> If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over

> but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me

> that will make my time more useful.

Aha! I think I know what's going on here. You mentioned that you

used to do a CBT exercise in which you listed rational versus

irrational thoughts. That sounds to me like the kind of exercise

I used to do when I was working with " Feeling Good, " a big fat CBT

handbook by a fellow named Burns. There were all kinds of

exercises that I used to do painstakingly every time my anxiety

flared up, involving writing out dysfunctional thoughts, and then

writing out more accurate or reasonable thoughts next to them. The

point of the exercise was to reduce anxiety by seeing how funky

and wrong my dysfunctional thoughts were, and then replacing them

with these more accurate thoughts. Never quite worked for me –

I would feel better for a little while, but the effect didn't last,

and it didn't move me forward my life.

Anyway, that's completely different from defusion exercises in ACT.

Defusion in ACT is a real-time exercise, not something you do by

listing thoughts and then going through the list. Also, you're not

trying to replace one thought with another – since you're doing it

in real time, the idea is simply to become aware that each thought

you experience *is* a thought. It gives you just a little distance

from the content of the thought.

I'd suggest rereading the section in The Happiness Trap about defusion.

I'm pretty sure you'll find that adding " I'm having the thought that ... "

is in fact something Russ suggests you do in real time, and not

by making lists and then going through the list.

I'm having the thought that I'm worried my comments here may come

across as critical when I don't mean them that way. And I'm going to

go ahead and post them anyway.

– Randy

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>

> What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then

> rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused

> thought and try to make it a replacement.

>

> So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then

> I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

>

> If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over

> but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me

> that will make my time more useful.

Aha! I think I know what's going on here. You mentioned that you

used to do a CBT exercise in which you listed rational versus

irrational thoughts. That sounds to me like the kind of exercise

I used to do when I was working with " Feeling Good, " a big fat CBT

handbook by a fellow named Burns. There were all kinds of

exercises that I used to do painstakingly every time my anxiety

flared up, involving writing out dysfunctional thoughts, and then

writing out more accurate or reasonable thoughts next to them. The

point of the exercise was to reduce anxiety by seeing how funky

and wrong my dysfunctional thoughts were, and then replacing them

with these more accurate thoughts. Never quite worked for me –

I would feel better for a little while, but the effect didn't last,

and it didn't move me forward my life.

Anyway, that's completely different from defusion exercises in ACT.

Defusion in ACT is a real-time exercise, not something you do by

listing thoughts and then going through the list. Also, you're not

trying to replace one thought with another – since you're doing it

in real time, the idea is simply to become aware that each thought

you experience *is* a thought. It gives you just a little distance

from the content of the thought.

I'd suggest rereading the section in The Happiness Trap about defusion.

I'm pretty sure you'll find that adding " I'm having the thought that ... "

is in fact something Russ suggests you do in real time, and not

by making lists and then going through the list.

I'm having the thought that I'm worried my comments here may come

across as critical when I don't mean them that way. And I'm going to

go ahead and post them anyway.

– Randy

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I have read the happiness trap and its a great book. I'm not an ACT expert but i'll share my experience and hopefully it may help. The happiness trap has tons of defusion exercises but i found that some were more or less effective for me. To find what worked for me I had to go through each defusion exercise until i found something that worked for me. It took me a bit but eventually i found something. For example, one exercise that worked was the use of funny voices but it didn't work initially. I had to find that 'right' funny voice to defuse from my thoughts. I went through probaly 5 or 6 different voices.

It sounds silly but it showed me that alot of these exercises are subjective and some exercises may work and some may not and some may have to be tweaked. You may have wanted to hear some exercises that you could just bang out quickly and defuse from your thoughts. I know thats something I wanted, but I think you'll find that with a little bit of work, you'll not only gain some relief but also find something that is tailored for you that you can pull out whenever you need it.I found the below to be helpful in creating a personalized toolkit to deal with my own anxiety issues:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit"Another thing, and i had to find this out the hard way, if you find an exercise that works,

you'll need to practice it on a daily basis so when an issues arises, you can fall back on your toolkit with ease. I think Russ talks about how to practice the defusion exercise by simulating anxious thoughts. This daily trainng also helps with being comfortable with having anxious thoughts because you now know that you can handle having these thoughts.I hope this has been helpful. You writing the below email while anxious, shows that you're doing one of the main tenants of ACT: committed action while having uncomfortable thoughts. So kudos to you. All the best and good luck.OTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:36 AMSubject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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I have read the happiness trap and its a great book. I'm not an ACT expert but i'll share my experience and hopefully it may help. The happiness trap has tons of defusion exercises but i found that some were more or less effective for me. To find what worked for me I had to go through each defusion exercise until i found something that worked for me. It took me a bit but eventually i found something. For example, one exercise that worked was the use of funny voices but it didn't work initially. I had to find that 'right' funny voice to defuse from my thoughts. I went through probaly 5 or 6 different voices.

It sounds silly but it showed me that alot of these exercises are subjective and some exercises may work and some may not and some may have to be tweaked. You may have wanted to hear some exercises that you could just bang out quickly and defuse from your thoughts. I know thats something I wanted, but I think you'll find that with a little bit of work, you'll not only gain some relief but also find something that is tailored for you that you can pull out whenever you need it.I found the below to be helpful in creating a personalized toolkit to deal with my own anxiety issues:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit"Another thing, and i had to find this out the hard way, if you find an exercise that works,

you'll need to practice it on a daily basis so when an issues arises, you can fall back on your toolkit with ease. I think Russ talks about how to practice the defusion exercise by simulating anxious thoughts. This daily trainng also helps with being comfortable with having anxious thoughts because you now know that you can handle having these thoughts.I hope this has been helpful. You writing the below email while anxious, shows that you're doing one of the main tenants of ACT: committed action while having uncomfortable thoughts. So kudos to you. All the best and good luck.OTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:36 AMSubject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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Hi Philip,

Hmm, I loaned my copy of " Handiness Trap " to someone so I wasn't

able to grab it before i posted & check on how " I'm having the

thought ... " is presented. But just now I went into Amazon and

used the " Search inside " feature to find the relevant section. And

to my surprise, the exercise is presented much differently than

I would have expected. In fact (and ocwalsh alludes to this as well

in his post that I read just now), Russ suggests practicing

" I'm having the thought " not in a real-time setting - that is, not

as thoughts actually arise - but in a kind of simulation drill, where

you call a thought to mind that often occurs for you, and then

see what adding " I'm having the thought that ... " does when you

add it on.

I guess that's OK, except that I would still have the same caution -

don't approach this exercise as if it were a CBT exercise in which

the original thought is to be " replaced " with a new thought. Instead,

do what Russ suggests & just see what your experience is like. This

is also what Darrell suggests in his post. Finally, I'm catching on!

- Randy

> >

> > What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then

> > rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused

> > thought and try to make it a replacement.

> >

> > So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then

> > I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

> >

> > If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over

> > but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me

> > that will make my time more useful.

>

> Aha! I think I know what's going on here. You mentioned that you

> used to do a CBT exercise in which you listed rational versus

> irrational thoughts. That sounds to me like the kind of exercise

> I used to do when I was working with " Feeling Good, " a big fat CBT

> handbook by a fellow named Burns. There were all kinds of

> exercises that I used to do painstakingly every time my anxiety

> flared up, involving writing out dysfunctional thoughts, and then

> writing out more accurate or reasonable thoughts next to them. The

> point of the exercise was to reduce anxiety by seeing how funky

> and wrong my dysfunctional thoughts were, and then replacing them

> with these more accurate thoughts. Never quite worked for me –

> I would feel better for a little while, but the effect didn't last,

> and it didn't move me forward my life.

>

> Anyway, that's completely different from defusion exercises in ACT.

> Defusion in ACT is a real-time exercise, not something you do by

> listing thoughts and then going through the list. Also, you're not

> trying to replace one thought with another – since you're doing it

> in real time, the idea is simply to become aware that each thought

> you experience *is* a thought. It gives you just a little distance

> from the content of the thought.

>

> I'd suggest rereading the section in The Happiness Trap about defusion.

> I'm pretty sure you'll find that adding " I'm having the thought that ... "

> is in fact something Russ suggests you do in real time, and not

> by making lists and then going through the list.

>

> I'm having the thought that I'm worried my comments here may come

> across as critical when I don't mean them that way. And I'm going to

> go ahead and post them anyway.

>

> – Randy

>

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Posted

Hi Philip,

Hmm, I loaned my copy of " Handiness Trap " to someone so I wasn't

able to grab it before i posted & check on how " I'm having the

thought ... " is presented. But just now I went into Amazon and

used the " Search inside " feature to find the relevant section. And

to my surprise, the exercise is presented much differently than

I would have expected. In fact (and ocwalsh alludes to this as well

in his post that I read just now), Russ suggests practicing

" I'm having the thought " not in a real-time setting - that is, not

as thoughts actually arise - but in a kind of simulation drill, where

you call a thought to mind that often occurs for you, and then

see what adding " I'm having the thought that ... " does when you

add it on.

I guess that's OK, except that I would still have the same caution -

don't approach this exercise as if it were a CBT exercise in which

the original thought is to be " replaced " with a new thought. Instead,

do what Russ suggests & just see what your experience is like. This

is also what Darrell suggests in his post. Finally, I'm catching on!

- Randy

> >

> > What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then

> > rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused

> > thought and try to make it a replacement.

> >

> > So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then

> > I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

> >

> > If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over

> > but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me

> > that will make my time more useful.

>

> Aha! I think I know what's going on here. You mentioned that you

> used to do a CBT exercise in which you listed rational versus

> irrational thoughts. That sounds to me like the kind of exercise

> I used to do when I was working with " Feeling Good, " a big fat CBT

> handbook by a fellow named Burns. There were all kinds of

> exercises that I used to do painstakingly every time my anxiety

> flared up, involving writing out dysfunctional thoughts, and then

> writing out more accurate or reasonable thoughts next to them. The

> point of the exercise was to reduce anxiety by seeing how funky

> and wrong my dysfunctional thoughts were, and then replacing them

> with these more accurate thoughts. Never quite worked for me –

> I would feel better for a little while, but the effect didn't last,

> and it didn't move me forward my life.

>

> Anyway, that's completely different from defusion exercises in ACT.

> Defusion in ACT is a real-time exercise, not something you do by

> listing thoughts and then going through the list. Also, you're not

> trying to replace one thought with another – since you're doing it

> in real time, the idea is simply to become aware that each thought

> you experience *is* a thought. It gives you just a little distance

> from the content of the thought.

>

> I'd suggest rereading the section in The Happiness Trap about defusion.

> I'm pretty sure you'll find that adding " I'm having the thought that ... "

> is in fact something Russ suggests you do in real time, and not

> by making lists and then going through the list.

>

> I'm having the thought that I'm worried my comments here may come

> across as critical when I don't mean them that way. And I'm going to

> go ahead and post them anyway.

>

> – Randy

>

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Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc."Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself."do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life). BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc."Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself."do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life). BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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Posted
Posted

I had a small victory a couple of days ago and a useful insight last night.

First a bit of background. I'm a compulsive gambler, specifically poker machines

(called slots in the US). My gambling counsellor asked me to sign what's called

an exclusion order that would ban me from a few of these venues. It's not a

legally binding contract where, if I walk into a venue and start playing, they

can fine me. The most they can do is ask me to leave, which works great as a

deterrent.

On the day when I was about to go and sign the order, I was sitting outside my

favorite cafe enjoying a cup of coffee, the well-meaning but unhelpful voice in

my head (which I've started calling Radio Crap) started coming up with stuff

like " I don't want to " , " I can control my habit without signing another

exclusion order " , " I can control my gambling when I go to a venue " , and even " I

want to keep playing " .

Normally when I have these kinds of thoughts, I engage with them, and the volume

on Radio Crap turns itself up to eleven. Then another radio, which I call Radio

Rational, starts up and tries to drown out Radio Crap with all kinds of logical

arguments about how destructive gambling is, how I've never been able to control

my gambling, and how harmful it is to both myself and society. The end result is

often a chaotic racket of thoughts and feelings.

And here's my small victory. This time, instead of letting the two radios slug

it out, I simply said " Thanks mind " and continued reading an ebook and drinking

my coffee. They still bickered about this and that, but at a low level.

After that I went and signed the exclusion order. When I walked out with a copy

of the contract in my hand, I felt that I had taken a small step in a valued

direction and felt great.

The insight I mentioned happened last night when I was listening to Russ

talk about defusion*. In an earlier post, I wondered whether it was useful to

defuse from all our thoughts and feelings and not just from the unhelpful ones.

During the interview (which goes for about two hours), Russ pointed out that we

often want to fuse with our thoughts and feelings. When we're reading a novel or

watching a film or show on TV, we want to enjoy them fully, we want to be moved,

we want to feel what the characters in the stories are feeling. In my case, if

I'm looking at a sunset or a starry sky, I want to let myself feel the awe and

wonder of them fully, I want to be completely fused with the experience.

It was a small insight and, I suppose, an obvious one. Defuse from the thoughts

that stop me doing what I value and let myself fuse with the ones that are

useful, valuable, and give me joy.

* The link to the podcast:

http://contextualpsychology.org/podcast/05_an_introduction_to_defusion_with_russ\

_harris

Cheers,

Stan

>

>

> Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb.

> The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep

moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the

thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've

said in your email:

> " negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful

thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you

live a valued life. " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the

defused thought " - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is

about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a

thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling

with. In the process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging

the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud

passing by, etc.

> " Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see

how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think

about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

> " do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts

can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more

useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing

defusion exercises over and over.

> DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several

of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving

towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the

alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise

that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out loud if possible. I

have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do

you see the difference?

> I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling

with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to

generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to

yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or

take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts.

Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When

you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply

smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the

stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

> What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do

you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you

spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts

and emotions?

> ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It

is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping

you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is

mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT

has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was

hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer

even if I'm feeling like crap.

> ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it

is a set of small tools used consistently.

> I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on

ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page.

Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and

two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own ACT Toolkit " and

" Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you

integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

> Bill

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: phil.k.dawson@...

> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700

> Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the

exercises.

> I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them

and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought

exercises for CBT.

>

> What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the

defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a

replacement.

> So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am

having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

>

> If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping

there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more

useful.

> Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the

belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how

to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the

full level of my possible defusing power! :)

>

> I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep

depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like

some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

>

> Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to

try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when

these problems overwhelm me.

>

> Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that

many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.

>

> (wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. " I am having

the thought that they will think I am dumb " )

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I had a small victory a couple of days ago and a useful insight last night.

First a bit of background. I'm a compulsive gambler, specifically poker machines

(called slots in the US). My gambling counsellor asked me to sign what's called

an exclusion order that would ban me from a few of these venues. It's not a

legally binding contract where, if I walk into a venue and start playing, they

can fine me. The most they can do is ask me to leave, which works great as a

deterrent.

On the day when I was about to go and sign the order, I was sitting outside my

favorite cafe enjoying a cup of coffee, the well-meaning but unhelpful voice in

my head (which I've started calling Radio Crap) started coming up with stuff

like " I don't want to " , " I can control my habit without signing another

exclusion order " , " I can control my gambling when I go to a venue " , and even " I

want to keep playing " .

Normally when I have these kinds of thoughts, I engage with them, and the volume

on Radio Crap turns itself up to eleven. Then another radio, which I call Radio

Rational, starts up and tries to drown out Radio Crap with all kinds of logical

arguments about how destructive gambling is, how I've never been able to control

my gambling, and how harmful it is to both myself and society. The end result is

often a chaotic racket of thoughts and feelings.

And here's my small victory. This time, instead of letting the two radios slug

it out, I simply said " Thanks mind " and continued reading an ebook and drinking

my coffee. They still bickered about this and that, but at a low level.

After that I went and signed the exclusion order. When I walked out with a copy

of the contract in my hand, I felt that I had taken a small step in a valued

direction and felt great.

The insight I mentioned happened last night when I was listening to Russ

talk about defusion*. In an earlier post, I wondered whether it was useful to

defuse from all our thoughts and feelings and not just from the unhelpful ones.

During the interview (which goes for about two hours), Russ pointed out that we

often want to fuse with our thoughts and feelings. When we're reading a novel or

watching a film or show on TV, we want to enjoy them fully, we want to be moved,

we want to feel what the characters in the stories are feeling. In my case, if

I'm looking at a sunset or a starry sky, I want to let myself feel the awe and

wonder of them fully, I want to be completely fused with the experience.

It was a small insight and, I suppose, an obvious one. Defuse from the thoughts

that stop me doing what I value and let myself fuse with the ones that are

useful, valuable, and give me joy.

* The link to the podcast:

http://contextualpsychology.org/podcast/05_an_introduction_to_defusion_with_russ\

_harris

Cheers,

Stan

>

>

> Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb.

> The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep

moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the

thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've

said in your email:

> " negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful

thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you

live a valued life. " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the

defused thought " - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is

about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a

thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling

with. In the process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging

the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud

passing by, etc.

> " Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see

how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think

about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

> " do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts

can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more

useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing

defusion exercises over and over.

> DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several

of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving

towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the

alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise

that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out loud if possible. I

have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do

you see the difference?

> I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling

with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to

generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to

yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or

take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts.

Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When

you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply

smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the

stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

> What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do

you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you

spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts

and emotions?

> ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It

is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping

you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is

mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT

has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was

hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer

even if I'm feeling like crap.

> ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it

is a set of small tools used consistently.

> I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on

ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page.

Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and

two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own ACT Toolkit " and

" Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you

integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

> Bill

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: phil.k.dawson@...

> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700

> Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the

exercises.

> I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them

and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought

exercises for CBT.

>

> What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the

defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a

replacement.

> So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am

having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

>

> If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping

there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more

useful.

> Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the

belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how

to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the

full level of my possible defusing power! :)

>

> I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep

depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like

some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

>

> Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to

try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when

these problems overwhelm me.

>

> Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that

many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.

>

> (wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. " I am having

the thought that they will think I am dumb " )

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses.  My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts.  I am writing about my thoughts using words. 

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse.  In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up.  This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me.   My CBT therapist would say something like, " you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way. "  The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought.  ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them.   I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, " This makes no sense,  this makes no sense "

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

" negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life. " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought " - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

" Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

" do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own ACT Toolkit " and " Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life). 

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

 

I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the exercises.  I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts.  I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to  do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought.  Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s).  I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that.  I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death.  I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering  I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these  problems overwhelm me.  

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof.   " I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses.  My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts.  I am writing about my thoughts using words. 

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse.  In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up.  This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me.   My CBT therapist would say something like, " you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way. "  The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought.  ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them.   I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, " This makes no sense,  this makes no sense "

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

" negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life. " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought " - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

" Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

" do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own ACT Toolkit " and " Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life). 

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

 

I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the exercises.  I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts.  I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to  do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought.  Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s).  I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that.  I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death.  I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering  I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these  problems overwhelm me.  

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof.   " I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )  

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You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:26:21 -0700Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses. My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts. I am writing about my thoughts using words.

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse. In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up. This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me. My CBT therapist would say something like, "you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way." The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought. ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them. I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, "This makes no sense, this makes no sense"

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

"Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

"do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:26:21 -0700Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses. My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts. I am writing about my thoughts using words.

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse. In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up. This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me. My CBT therapist would say something like, "you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way." The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought. ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them. I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, "This makes no sense, this makes no sense"

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

"Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

"do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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<<Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are

noticing them.>>

is this what " self as context means " and the " observing self " ....

i have heard these 2 words mentioned but not sure if this is what those words

mean

>

>

> You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts

and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see

your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in

The Happiness Trap.

> Bill

>

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Posted
Posted

<<Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are

noticing them.>>

is this what " self as context means " and the " observing self " ....

i have heard these 2 words mentioned but not sure if this is what those words

mean

>

>

> You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts

and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see

your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in

The Happiness Trap.

> Bill

>

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Posted
Posted

Phil,

Your comment about what you said your therapist would say about your irrational

(I prefer to call them unhelpful, since my mind is only trying to help) thoughts

is interesting.

Personally, if my therapist said " you are making the choice to think that and

that choice is making you feel that way, " I would challenge him/her about it.

In my experience, I have almost no control over the thoughts that pop into my

head. Not only that, but I've found that wrestling with them and trying to evict

them or replace them with what I think are better or more accurate ones has, for

the most part, only made things worse.

The idea of being able to choose which thoughts to have doesn't make sense at a

scientific level either. Before a thought can arise in my awareness, my brain

has to construct it and get the neurons firing in the right patterns. All of

this construction work happens below the surface, and I have no access to how it

happens or any way to influence it. All I experience is the final, fully-formed

thought, not the work that went into assembling it.

What I do have control over though, is whether I try to get rid of them or

simply notice and make room for them and let them come and go. I've found that

letting them be is easier and less painful than trying to control or evict them.

Among other things, I can put the energy I save by not struggling with them to

better use.

Cheers,

Stan

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb.

> >

> > The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and

> > keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with

> > the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things

> > you've said in your email:

> >

> > " negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful

> > thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps

> > you live a valued life.

> > " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought " -

> > defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the

> > way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you

> > have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the

> > process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging the

> > struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud

> > passing by, etc.

> >

> > " Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see

> > how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think

> > about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

> >

> > " do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you

> > experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your

> > time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather

> > than doing defusion exercises over and over.

> >

> > DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from

> > several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and

> > keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's

> > better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The

> > defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out

> > loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking

> > about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

> >

> > I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are

> > struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active

> > and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it.

> > Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking

> > out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your

> > mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating

> > down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on

> > a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the

> > other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and

> > being in contact with the present.

> >

> > What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book?

> > Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do

> > you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your

> > thoughts and emotions?

> >

> > ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away.

> > It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by

> > helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional

> > discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the

> > anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most

> > part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days

> > but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

> >

> > ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather

> > it is a set of small tools used consistently.

> >

> > I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on

> > ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the

> > page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT

> > hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own

> > ACT Toolkit " and " Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a

> > method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public

> > From: phil.k.dawson@...

> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700

> >

> > Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

> >

> >

> > I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the

> > exercises.

> >

> > I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of

> > them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought

> > exercises for CBT.

> >

> > What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting

> > the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it

> > a replacement.

> >

> > So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I

> > am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

> >

> > If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am

> > hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my

> > time more useful.

> >

> > Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the

> > belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure

> > how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am

> > reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

> >

> > I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep

> > depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also

> > like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

> >

> > Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able

> > to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again

> > when these problems overwhelm me.

> >

> > Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that

> > many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.

> >

> >

> > (wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. " I am

> > having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Phil,

Your comment about what you said your therapist would say about your irrational

(I prefer to call them unhelpful, since my mind is only trying to help) thoughts

is interesting.

Personally, if my therapist said " you are making the choice to think that and

that choice is making you feel that way, " I would challenge him/her about it.

In my experience, I have almost no control over the thoughts that pop into my

head. Not only that, but I've found that wrestling with them and trying to evict

them or replace them with what I think are better or more accurate ones has, for

the most part, only made things worse.

The idea of being able to choose which thoughts to have doesn't make sense at a

scientific level either. Before a thought can arise in my awareness, my brain

has to construct it and get the neurons firing in the right patterns. All of

this construction work happens below the surface, and I have no access to how it

happens or any way to influence it. All I experience is the final, fully-formed

thought, not the work that went into assembling it.

What I do have control over though, is whether I try to get rid of them or

simply notice and make room for them and let them come and go. I've found that

letting them be is easier and less painful than trying to control or evict them.

Among other things, I can put the energy I save by not struggling with them to

better use.

Cheers,

Stan

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb.

> >

> > The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and

> > keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with

> > the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things

> > you've said in your email:

> >

> > " negative or useless thoughts. " - a negative thought might be a useful

> > thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps

> > you live a valued life.

> > " writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought " -

> > defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the

> > way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you

> > have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the

> > process of " rewriting the defused thought " you may be prolonging the

> > struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud

> > passing by, etc.

> >

> > " Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement. " see

> > how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think

> > about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

> >

> > " do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you

> > experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your

> > time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather

> > than doing defusion exercises over and over.

> >

> > DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from

> > several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and

> > keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's

> > better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The

> > defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say " Thank you mind " out

> > loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking

> > about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

> >

> > I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are

> > struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active

> > and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it.

> > Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking

> > out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your

> > mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating

> > down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on

> > a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the

> > other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and

> > being in contact with the present.

> >

> > What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book?

> > Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do

> > you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your

> > thoughts and emotions?

> >

> > ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away.

> > It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by

> > helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional

> > discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the

> > anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most

> > part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days

> > but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

> >

> > ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather

> > it is a set of small tools used consistently.

> >

> > I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on

> > ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the

> > page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT

> > hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - " Create Your Own

> > ACT Toolkit " and " Trainng Phase III " (discusses psychological flexing - a

> > method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public

> > From: phil.k.dawson@...

> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700

> >

> > Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

> >

> >

> > I have completed " The Happiness Trap " and am now going back to do the

> > exercises.

> >

> > I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of

> > them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought

> > exercises for CBT.

> >

> > What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting

> > the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it

> > a replacement.

> >

> > So for example I write down, " people think I am dumb " and then I write " I

> > am having the thought that people think I am dumb. "

> >

> > If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am

> > hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my

> > time more useful.

> >

> > Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the

> > belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure

> > how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am

> > reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

> >

> > I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep

> > depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also

> > like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

> >

> > Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able

> > to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again

> > when these problems overwhelm me.

> >

> > Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that

> > many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.

> >

> >

> > (wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. " I am

> > having the thought that they will think I am dumb " )

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

,

Bill (in Message #15641) has just mentioned a book by Les Fehmi called Open

Focus Brain you might find useful.

It's been a couple of years since I read it, but from what I recall, the

exercises in the book and on the accompanying CD are a good way to experience

the observing self.

Cheers,

Stan

> >

> >

> > You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your

thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability

to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter

23 in The Happiness Trap.

> > Bill

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

,

Bill (in Message #15641) has just mentioned a book by Les Fehmi called Open

Focus Brain you might find useful.

It's been a couple of years since I read it, but from what I recall, the

exercises in the book and on the accompanying CD are a good way to experience

the observing self.

Cheers,

Stan

> >

> >

> > You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your

thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability

to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter

23 in The Happiness Trap.

> > Bill

> >

>

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Posted

Funny you should mention that. I read that chapter everyday and practice the exercises at the end at least 5 times a day. That was the key to losing 36 pounds. I think it kept my anxiety levels down. JeffTo: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:05:18 PMSubject: RE: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:26:21 -0700Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses. My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts. I am writing about my thoughts using words.

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse. In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up. This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me. My CBT therapist would say something like, "you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way." The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought. ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them. I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, "This makes no sense, this makes no sense"

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

"Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

"do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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Jeff - Thanks for sharing that. It's a great testimony to what can happen when we actually do the exercises. I find that the defusion exercise of thanking my mind only works when I actually do that. It doesn't work if I think about doing it but don't actually say the words, either silently or out loud. Our thinking self is a stickler for details and will not be quieted by our good intentions.Take a bow,BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: jberes5@...Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:59:51 +0000Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Funny you should mention that. I read that chapter everyday and practice the exercises at the end at least 5 times a day. That was the key to losing 36 pounds. I think it kept my anxiety levels down. JeffTo: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:05:18 PMSubject: RE: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:26:21 -0700Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses. My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts. I am writing about my thoughts using words.

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse. In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up. This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me. My CBT therapist would say something like, "you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way." The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought. ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them. I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, "This makes no sense, this makes no sense"

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

"Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

"do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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Posted
Posted

That's so true. I'm surprised every time I do the exercise that it worked again but, like you say, I have to do it. I'm looking forward to the day it becomes second nature. I was also surprised to find a similar idea of "thanking the mind" on a Buddhist meditation page this morning. The teacher points out what to do when you hook onto a thought while doing the "watching your breath" meditation; --------------So through the labeling process, we simply see our discursiveness. We notice that we have been lost in thought, we mentally label it “thinkingâ€â€”gently and without judgment—and we come back to the breath. --------------Very ACT-y. (Here's the site if anyone's interested. http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content & task=view & id=2125Jeff (bowing);)To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:05:15 PMSubject: RE: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Jeff - Thanks for sharing that. It's a great testimony to what can happen when we actually do the exercises. I find that the defusion exercise of thanking my mind only works when I actually do that. It doesn't work if I think about doing it but don't actually say the words, either silently or out loud. Our thinking self is a stickler for details and will not be quieted by our good intentions.Take a bow,BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: jberes5@...Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:59:51 +0000Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Funny you should mention that. I read that chapter everyday and practice the exercises at the end at least 5 times a day. That was the key to losing 36 pounds. I think it kept my anxiety levels down. JeffTo: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:05:18 PMSubject: RE: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

You are on the right track Phil. Try to spend time just noticing your thoughts and noticing that you are noticing them. This will develop your ability to see your thoughts in real time and begin to defuse in real time. See chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:26:21 -0700Subject: Re: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

Thanks for the many good responses.This will be a challenge to write....I discovered something interesting in reading the responses. My questions and thoughts are about about a therapy that focuses on thoughts and the words that make up those thoughts. I am writing about my thoughts using words.

Writing my questions made me realize how difficult it is to wrap the language in my questions with the language of ACT.On to the discussion....

I used the example of irrational thoughts from CBT because these are the thoughts I recognize that I need to defuse. In CBT I should replace them with a different kind of thought and in ACT, I defuse them and accomidate them.

The challenge I have always had was recognizing the thoughts as they came up. This is why I have become interested in ACT as CBT did little or nothing to help me. My CBT therapist would say something like, "you are making the choice to think that and that choice is making you feel that way." The trouble I had with that method was that I never saw a choice, I never saw a switch, I never could feel when I was supposed to change my thought. ACT helps because I don't have to battle the thoughts, I just need to work on accepting them. I really don't have to recognize the original thought at all, I have to find a way to accept them and make them less painful.

I think I am trying to find the best way to become a natural defuser :)Sung to the tune of Happy Birthday, "This makes no sense, this makes no sense"

Hi Phil - NO, I don't think you are dumb. The purpose of defusion is to help you LET GO of unhelpful thoughts and keep moving towards a valued life. It sounds like you are struggling with the thoughts instead of letting them go. Here are a few comments on things you've said in your email:

"negative or useless thoughts." - a negative thought might be a useful thought. The definition of a useful/helpful thought is a thought that helps you live a valued life."writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought" - defusion is not about changing the thought itself. It is about changing the way you think about the thought. A defused thought is a thought that you have LET GO of. A fused thought is one that you are struggling with. In the process of "rewriting the defused thought" you may be prolonging the struggle with it. Let the thought go as if it is a leaf on a stream; a cloud passing by, etc.

"Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement." see how this might be struggling with the thought? You can change how you think about the thought but you probably can't change the thought itself.

"do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. " To make your time more useful, keep taking committed action towards a valued life rather than doing defusion exercises over and over.

DEFUSION is not about getting rid of unhelpful thoughts. I defuse from several of the same thoughts many times a day by simply noticing them and keeping moving towards my values. Some days it is exhausting, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck thinking about the thought. The defusion exercise that works for me is to simply to say "Thank you mind" out loud if possible. I have to actually thank my mind as opposed to thinking about thanking my mind. Do you see the difference?

I suggest you also use ACCEPTANCE with your thoughts. What you are struggling with and what you need to accept is - your mind is very active and loves to generate thoughts. You don't like that so you struggle with it. Try chuckling to yourself when you notice that your mind is really cranking out the thoughts. Or take some time to just sit and curiously watch your mind generate the thoughts. Put each thought on an imaginary leaf floating down an imaginary stream. When you find yourself floating down the stream on a leaf with a thought, simply smile to yourself and get back to watching the other thoughts go down the stream. This is a combination of defusion and being in contact with the present.

What did you think of the values and committed action sections of the book? Do you have a pretty clear picture of where you want your life to go? How do you spend your time each day - pursuing your values or struggling with your thoughts and emotions?

ACT is not designed to make your thoughts/anxiety/depression/etc go away. It is designed to help you live a valued life in spite of these things by helping you stop struggling with them. Most of the time my emotional discomfort is mostly due to the struggle with my anxiety, rather than the anxiety itself. ACT has taught me how to stop the struggle (for the most part on most days). It was hard work at first and is still hard on some days but my life is much richer even if I'm feeling like crap.

ACT is not a brute force tool like a sledge hammer or a chain saw. Rather it is a set of small tools used consistently.I suggest you go to the home page for this list serv http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/ and click on ATTACHMENTS under MESSAGES in a box in the upper left hand corner of the page. Go to the message dated April 2, 2011. There you will find the ACT hexaflex and two other files you might find interesting - "Create Your Own ACT Toolkit" and "Trainng Phase III" (discusses psychological flexing - a method to help you integrate ACT into your real-time everyday life).

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: phil.k.dawson@...

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:36:39 -0700Subject: Defusion Questions for a Beginner

I have completed "The Happiness Trap" and am now going back to do the exercises. I am working on defusing my negative or useless thoughts. I have tons of them and an entire list from when I tried to do irrational/rational thought exercises for CBT.

What I am doing now is writing down the fused thought and then rewriting the defused thought. Then I read and the defused thought and try to make it a replacement.So for example I write down, "people think I am dumb" and then I write "I am having the thought that people think I am dumb."

If this is what it takes I will do this exercise over and over but I am hoping there is something you experts can explain to me that will make my time more useful. Please help me defuse my thoughts using a practical method(s). I am of the belief I should defuse my thoughts in a mindful way but I am not quite sure how to do that. I am willing to do exercises but I am not sure I am reaching the full level of my possible defusing power! :)

I have been suffering greatly with anxiety, social anxiety, and deep depression to the point that I begin to think about death. I would also like some tips on dealing with these moods or emotions in a healthy way.

Currently, when I am to be observant and get out of my suffering I am able to try some mindfulness exercises and some iPhone apps to get me going again when these problems overwhelm me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading many of the messages and I have learned that many of you have considerable knowledge and wisdom to spread.(wow writing this email is spiking my anxiety through the roof. "I am having the thought that they will think I am dumb")

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