Re: Your story

[Guest guest]

Hang in there. I get lost in seas full of shoulds too. Mostly trying too hard to

figure things out. Lots of fusion with the I'm bad as recently discussed. Take

a day off from the shoulds and see how it feels. Give yourself that.

I'm trying on small new behaviors like often refers to here. One small new

one for about three weeks at a time. And see how that goes. I honestly haven't

done this like I said I would..only dabbled then gave up. I am now going to be

writing it all down..a running recording of what I did different each day. No

matter how small. Even if it's one less should and one more " I am enough for

this moment now " . That's a lot.

>

> >

> > Make that 'just STOP " shoulding " on yourself' - but you probably

> > caught that.

> >

> >

> > To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 2:38:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: Your " story "

> >

> >

> >

> > Bruce, I was very inspired by your thoughtful honesty in this post.

> > Thanks. Now if you can just " shoulding " on yourself. If only we

> > all could. We are making progress, an itty bit at a time, but

> > nevertheless, moving forward. Hold on to that and make it part of

> > the story!

> >

> >

> > Helena

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 2:28:56 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: Your " story "

> >

> >

> >

> > I think the idea of dropping the story is a very interesting and

> > valuable one. Where I get stuck is the story of who I should be and

> > where I should be and how things should be for me. I also have the

> > story of how I should be feeling. It's funny how forceful that

> > narrative can be and how insistent it is on being heard. When it's

> > going, which is most of the time, it just bangs on my gut like a drum.

> > I think dropping the story is a lot like dropping the rope. It's

> > something that I know is good for me and makes so much sense, yet I

> > find it very difficult to do.

> >

> > I, too have done a lot of work on my childhood issues and not gotten

> > much relief from it. There are things from my childhood that I've

> > tried to accept and understand that they don't have to control me now.

> > I've had had some bad things happen in my life but so has most

> > everybody else. I've certainly known of many people with much tougher

> > situations.

> >

> > A lot of my anxiety and depression now is tension between how a story

> > in my head says things should be and the way they seem to be. I

> > compare myself to the story and I don't like the result. So I think

> > finding a way to get outside the story would be big for me. But I'm a

> > story guy, too. The most interesting thing to me are stories about

> > people and I have a hard time not taking them to heart, whether

> > they're about other people or myself. It's kind of funny that I work

> > with stories as part of my job so I know how easily they can be

> > manipulated. Through editing, you can give give totally different

> > impressions from the same raw material. The story that's presented in

> > the hands of the editor. I guess I'm not doing a great job editing the

> > story of my own situation.

> >

> > I'm not sure dropping the story and owning your story are that

> > different in the end. It seems like it's about acceptance of the way

> > things are. I don't know how my story got written. I guess I'm the

> > owner of it but there are elements in it that I have no idea where

> > they came from. Too much TV, maybe or maybe just being human.

> >

> > Anyway, I like this discussion. Dropping the story of the past and the

> > imagined future and living in the present moment is a huge challenge

> > for me and I appreciate everyone's comments. The stories I like most

> > of all are the ones about people making progress in their lives

> > through ACT.

> >

> > Bruce

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that " drop your story " can be insulting to people in the wrong context.

It can be just as problematic as telling someone to just " get over it. "

However, I'm not sure that I've seen the phrase " drop your story " in any ACT

book. Of course I haven't read them all. I think in ACT we are being asked to

diffuse from or unhook from the story the mind tells. The mind may still tell

that story but we can choose to move in a valued direction even if it appears to

be in contradiction to the story.

Being fused to a story is like a fish being caught on a line. It's pretty

difficult for the fish to be in control of his direction while caught on a hook.

If we are too attached to our stories we lose control over the direction of our

lives. We are pulled along by the narrative. But if we unhook from the story,

we have the whole ocean to move in. There will still be other hooks we get

caught on from time to time, and we may still feel pain because the hook leaves

a hole in the body. But we gain more freedom to choose our direction. And that

I think is what diffusing from our story is all about.

Rodney

>

>

> " Drop your story " IS simplistic and insulting. While it's good to see

> your story as a story and not to be ruled by it if it's a chronicle of

> woe, nobody, not even the spiritual superstars lives story-free. As

> human beings we're simply not wired that way. And there's a lot of

> good evidence that how you come to frame your personal narrative can

> affect your life, your relationships, even the style of attachment

> your children will have with you.

>

> Narratives matter; some are definitely better than others, and the

> good news is that they can be changed if you do the work. Doing the

> work of bringing a narrative that lives in implicit memory to

> consciousness allows you to choose different interpretations that

> aren't rooted in past trauma. This can improve your emotional well

> being immeasurably.

>

[Guest guest]

I love that phrase. I have heard it before. I remember asking myself who and

where would I be without my story. When you grow up with a disturbing past, I

grew up carrying that as who I am for I had noother referance.

I think it does have an associate with ACT. To me, It says another way defuse

that thought. Those are thoughts that are there but i can change the story. The

more I choose not to act on my story the stronger I become.

Lin

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > " Drop your story " IS simplistic and insulting. While it's good to see

> >> > your story as a story and not to be ruled by it if it's a chronicle of

> >> > woe, nobody, not even the spiritual superstars lives story-free. As

> >> > human beings we're simply not wired that way. And there's a lot of

> >> > good evidence that how you come to frame your personal narrative can

> >> > affect your life, your relationships, even the style of attachment

> >> > your children will have with you.

> >> >

> >> > Narratives matter; some are definitely better than others, and the

> >> > good news is that they can be changed if you do the work. Doing the

> >> > work of bringing a narrative that lives in implicit memory to

> >> > consciousness allows you to choose different interpretations that

> >> > aren't rooted in past trauma. This can improve your emotional well

> >> > being immeasurably.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >> --

> >> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> >> Rochester, NY, US

> >> http://darrellking.com

> >> DarrellGKing@

> >>

> >

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

the point of this reference isn't to invalidate one's experience or deny it, but

to acknowledge that one is continually identifying and carrying along a storied

past and an imagined future with them in the present moment

many times as a hindrance

if we always kept it at the factual level, our past memories wouldn't evoke much

of an emotional reaction in the present

Which thought do you think is going to cause one to unnecessarily suffer?

" Heidi ended our romantic relationship "

or

" Heidi abandoned me "

The latter obviously...which is also most likely based on a previous story

too...the one that might say " my parent's abandoned me "

>

> This dropped into my inbox:

>

> " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of spiritual

teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm just as tired of

us devaluing our story — our personal history — as I am of us overvaluing or

overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep honoring of our story, through which

we mine from it what we need to become more integrated, more real, more at home

with all that we are. "

>

> Augustus Masters

>

>

> What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree just

grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate. And so

simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the search for

insight.

>

> Kate

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Theresa, for your thoughtful answer!You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even though society would say the opposite sometimes. I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart, slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time. Henrik Thanks for opening up here, Henrik. I remember age 5 kindergarten notwanting to let go of my mother's hand that first day. I clung to hersoft large hand as long as I could. At recess, I remember trying toimagine making myself small enough so that I might hide in-between thelittle decorative holes dotted here and there in the other-wise solidconcrete walls outside, in the play area.And I remember wandering through the halls of the big new school, notknowing where I was, and comparing myself to others who surely looked asthey knew. They knew how to get around and I didn't and this must meanthat there is something wrong with me. It sure seemed that way.I think maybe I spent the rest of the year and maybe the rest of my lifelooking for that hand to hold onto and looking to crawl in those holesany time I could get. And this was not a result of any particularincident out of the ordinary, no overt neglect or abuse. Everyday kidstuff. And my mother was there every day to pick me up..make me a snackand ask me how my day was. I would cry a lot and opened up a lot withher and she comforted me and told me it would be O.K., told me the otherkids are likely as scared as I am and maybe more so. And I remainedterrified. It's amazing to me any of us make it this far.Congrats on your promotion. Allow yourself the joy and watch withcareful eyes how sneaky your mind may be in small ways to try to rob ofyou this hard earned joy. Like maybe saying the job is taking you fromyour values. Maybe that's true, maybe not. Maybe too soon to know.What's the rush? Trying to figure out, mind? Oh, I see. Nice one.This is something I learned late. I had very good jobs before ACT and"blew it" so to speak, and have been trying to climb back with what Iknow and what I have now. It's not easy. Some days that little hole inthe wall looks very nice. And I'm making it now so the hole is not sucha bad thing to want to hang out in for a few minutes, pack in my bag.Just so long as it's more about feeding something healthy and notsomething that isn't.I had also been told to "look out", was warned that I cared too muchabout people I was helping, that I took work too seriously. I didn'tknow what to do with that commenting. It made me more anxious. Onetherapist advised me to stay in my head and get out of heart.I was told I was taking things to much to heart, this was believed to bemy problem. It wasn't.Opening your heart and caring is a beautiful thing. I don't know ifanyone can ever care too much. Wanting to make a difference not such ashabby thing either, turns out! Who knew?My suffering has come from fusion with the caring, like it has to turnout a certain way. Like if it doesn't, I might need to get into thathole and disappear now and stay gone for a while kind of thing. Like Iwon't be able to handle whatever surprises life has to offer. It's whenI forget to breathe, hold myself lovingly and when the mind starts toinsist on controlling for certain outcomes that come from caring. ThingsI can't control for anyway.Turning away from what my experience, my body, the present moment isinforming quietly now and instead paying attention, feeding all thenoise in my head.So look closely at that part, the part your mind might be insisting oncontrolling, the part you just can't control. And focus on what you can.You can do this job and find joy with it. With all your caring there inyour bag, there in your heart.Best to you and your process!> >> > >> > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds> > > exciting!?> > > (the> > > 63 year old)> > >> > >> > >> > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe> > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long> > > post.> > >> > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> > > responsibility at work than before.> > >> > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are> > > not> > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ...> > > My> > > boss> > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would> > > need> > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that> > > where> > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non existent".> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but> > > why> > > not start with:> > >> > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> > > section of the school where things where both soft but also> > > barren).> > > One> > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who> > > where> > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik" and> > > psychologically becoming an automaton.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear,> > > screaming> > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day,> > > homework,> > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to> > > go> > > the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read> > > and> > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There> > > was> > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading,> > > writing> > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always> > > reminded> > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> > > publicly mocked for it.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > >> > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > >> > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when> > > the> > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where> > > all> > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non> > > existent> > > romantic life.> > >> > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited> > > access> > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a> > > "super> > > person".> > >> > > -etc...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Acceptance and defusion:> > >> > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while> > > carrying> > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Values:> > >> > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what> > > kind> > > of> > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work> > > so> > > that> > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster,> > > with> > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the> > > while> > > remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to> > > maintain.> > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as> > > concept?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Committed action:> > >> > > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > >> > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> > > better.> > >> > > -joking> > >> > > -being lazy> > >> > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > >> > > -helping them to open up their hearts> > >> > > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so> > > that> > > I can go back to acceptance.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Any comments are welcome,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > With appreciation> > >> > > Henrik> > >>> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Theresa, for your thoughtful answer!You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even though society would say the opposite sometimes. I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart, slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time. Henrik Thanks for opening up here, Henrik. I remember age 5 kindergarten notwanting to let go of my mother's hand that first day. I clung to hersoft large hand as long as I could. At recess, I remember trying toimagine making myself small enough so that I might hide in-between thelittle decorative holes dotted here and there in the other-wise solidconcrete walls outside, in the play area.And I remember wandering through the halls of the big new school, notknowing where I was, and comparing myself to others who surely looked asthey knew. They knew how to get around and I didn't and this must meanthat there is something wrong with me. It sure seemed that way.I think maybe I spent the rest of the year and maybe the rest of my lifelooking for that hand to hold onto and looking to crawl in those holesany time I could get. And this was not a result of any particularincident out of the ordinary, no overt neglect or abuse. Everyday kidstuff. And my mother was there every day to pick me up..make me a snackand ask me how my day was. I would cry a lot and opened up a lot withher and she comforted me and told me it would be O.K., told me the otherkids are likely as scared as I am and maybe more so. And I remainedterrified. It's amazing to me any of us make it this far.Congrats on your promotion. Allow yourself the joy and watch withcareful eyes how sneaky your mind may be in small ways to try to rob ofyou this hard earned joy. Like maybe saying the job is taking you fromyour values. Maybe that's true, maybe not. Maybe too soon to know.What's the rush? Trying to figure out, mind? Oh, I see. Nice one.This is something I learned late. I had very good jobs before ACT and"blew it" so to speak, and have been trying to climb back with what Iknow and what I have now. It's not easy. Some days that little hole inthe wall looks very nice. And I'm making it now so the hole is not sucha bad thing to want to hang out in for a few minutes, pack in my bag.Just so long as it's more about feeding something healthy and notsomething that isn't.I had also been told to "look out", was warned that I cared too muchabout people I was helping, that I took work too seriously. I didn'tknow what to do with that commenting. It made me more anxious. Onetherapist advised me to stay in my head and get out of heart.I was told I was taking things to much to heart, this was believed to bemy problem. It wasn't.Opening your heart and caring is a beautiful thing. I don't know ifanyone can ever care too much. Wanting to make a difference not such ashabby thing either, turns out! Who knew?My suffering has come from fusion with the caring, like it has to turnout a certain way. Like if it doesn't, I might need to get into thathole and disappear now and stay gone for a while kind of thing. Like Iwon't be able to handle whatever surprises life has to offer. It's whenI forget to breathe, hold myself lovingly and when the mind starts toinsist on controlling for certain outcomes that come from caring. ThingsI can't control for anyway.Turning away from what my experience, my body, the present moment isinforming quietly now and instead paying attention, feeding all thenoise in my head.So look closely at that part, the part your mind might be insisting oncontrolling, the part you just can't control. And focus on what you can.You can do this job and find joy with it. With all your caring there inyour bag, there in your heart.Best to you and your process!> >> > >> > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds> > > exciting!?> > > (the> > > 63 year old)> > >> > >> > >> > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe> > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long> > > post.> > >> > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> > > responsibility at work than before.> > >> > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are> > > not> > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ...> > > My> > > boss> > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would> > > need> > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that> > > where> > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non existent".> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but> > > why> > > not start with:> > >> > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> > > section of the school where things where both soft but also> > > barren).> > > One> > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who> > > where> > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik" and> > > psychologically becoming an automaton.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear,> > > screaming> > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day,> > > homework,> > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to> > > go> > > the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read> > > and> > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There> > > was> > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading,> > > writing> > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always> > > reminded> > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> > > publicly mocked for it.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > >> > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > >> > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when> > > the> > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where> > > all> > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non> > > existent> > > romantic life.> > >> > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited> > > access> > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a> > > "super> > > person".> > >> > > -etc...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Acceptance and defusion:> > >> > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while> > > carrying> > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Values:> > >> > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what> > > kind> > > of> > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work> > > so> > > that> > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster,> > > with> > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the> > > while> > > remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to> > > maintain.> > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as> > > concept?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Committed action:> > >> > > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > >> > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> > > better.> > >> > > -joking> > >> > > -being lazy> > >> > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > >> > > -helping them to open up their hearts> > >> > > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so> > > that> > > I can go back to acceptance.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Any comments are welcome,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > With appreciation> > >> > > Henrik> > >>> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Theresa, for your thoughtful answer!

You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being

promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even

though society would say the opposite sometimes.

I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't

control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart,

slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.

Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the

small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate

to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time.

Henrik

> > >

> > > >

> > > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the

> > > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!?

> > > > (the

> > > > 63 year old)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe

> > > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.

> > > >

> > > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more

> > > > responsibility at work than before.

> > > >

> > > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not

> > > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much

> > > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My

> > > > boss

> > > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need

> > > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that

> > > > where

> > > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became " non existent " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why

> > > > not start with:

> > > >

> > > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french

> > > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids

> > > > section of the school where things where both soft but also barren).

> > > > One

> > > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who

> > > > where

> > > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was " promoted " . I think that that

> > > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being " Henrik " and

> > > > psychologically becoming an automaton.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming

> > > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day,

> > > > homework,

> > > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go

> > > > the bathroom, no liberty. The " upside " was learning to count, read and

> > > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was

> > > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading,

> > > > writing

> > > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded

> > > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a

> > > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and

> > > > publicly mocked for it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---

> > > >

> > > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in

> > > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.

> > > >

> > > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the

> > > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all

> > > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non

> > > > existent

> > > > romantic life.

> > > >

> > > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and

> > > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access

> > > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a " super

> > > > person " .

> > > >

> > > > -etc...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Acceptance and defusion:

> > > >

> > > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying

> > > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Values:

> > > >

> > > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind

> > > > of

> > > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so

> > > > that

> > > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with

> > > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while

> > > > remaining Henrik. " Henrik " is a concept that is hard for me to

> > > > maintain.

> > > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Committed action:

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps " Henrik " is about:

> > > >

> > > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life

> > > > better.

> > > >

> > > > -joking

> > > >

> > > > -being lazy

> > > >

> > > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients

> > > >

> > > > -helping them to open up their hearts

> > > >

> > > > -trying to slow things down when the " automaton " is taking over so

> > > > that

> > > > I can go back to acceptance.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Any comments are welcome,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With appreciation

> > > >

> > > > Henrik

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can't imagine how we can live our life without having a story, i.e, a

connection to the past which gives us continuity. Saying, that, our

interpretation of the past can change and so we can begin to see it in a

different light which might help to see heal.

I was always amazed at how my Mum forgave her mother after she treated

my Mum so badly. But my Mum told me there was a war on and her Dad was

at the frontline and so might never come back. There was bombs dropping

all over London and my Mum's mother, who was only 17, had no idea how

long she would live, and so she found comfort in running around having

lots of boyfriends.

Kv

> >

> > This dropped into my inbox:

> >

> > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm

just as tired of us devaluing our story — our personal history —

as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to

become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. "

> >

> > Augustus Masters

> >

> >

> > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree

just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the

search for insight.

> >

> > Kate

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Some people have kind of amnesia in which every moment is brand new experience

for them and this a condition that is usually the result of some kind of brain

damage often caused by a car accident or something. Their lives are living hell

because without the past the pressent is simply meaningless.

Kv

> > >

> > > This dropped into my inbox:

> > >

> > > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

> spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm

> just as tired of us devaluing our story — our personal history —

> as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

> honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to

> become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. "

> > >

> > > Augustus Masters

> > >

> > >

> > > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree

> just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

> And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the

> search for insight.

> > >

> > > Kate

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, if we trying assign meaning to the present, the entire concept of mindfulness becomes mental gymnastics.D

>  >> Some people have kind of amnesia in which every moment is brand new experience for them and this a condition that is usually the result of some kind of brain damage often caused by a car accident or something. Their lives are living hell because without the past the pressent is simply meaningless.

>> Kv>> >> > >>> > > This dropped into my inbox:>> > >>> > > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

>> spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm>> just as tired of us devaluing our story — our personal history —>> as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

>> honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to>> become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. " >> > >>> > > Augustus Masters

>> > >>> > >>> > > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree>> just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

>> And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the>> search for insight.>> > >>> > > Kate>> > >>> >>>>

> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Can having fun really be a value? I certainly value having fun but I don't seem to be able to take action towards it. Some people say that you can't catch fun by chasing it. That's kind of been my experience. I feel like I can try and have a positive attitude towards possible pleasure. But can one consciously have fun?BruceThank you, Theresa, for your thoughtful answer!You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even though society would say the opposite sometimes. I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart, slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time. Henrik > > > > > > >> > > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> > > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!? > > > > (the> > > > 63 year old)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe > > > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.> > > >> > > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> > > > responsibility at work than before.> > > >> > > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not> > > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> > > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My > > > > boss> > > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need> > > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that > > > > where> > > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non existent".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why> > > > not start with:> > > >> > > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> > > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> > > > section of the school where things where both soft but also barren). > > > > One> > > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who > > > > where> > > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> > > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik" and> > > > psychologically becoming an automaton.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming> > > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day, > > > > homework,> > > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go> > > > the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read and> > > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was> > > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading, > > > > writing> > > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded> > > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> > > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> > > > publicly mocked for it.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > > >> > > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> > > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > > >> > > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the> > > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all> > > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non > > > > existent> > > > romantic life.> > > >> > > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> > > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access> > > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a "super> > > > person".> > > >> > > > -etc...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Acceptance and defusion:> > > >> > > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying> > > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Values:> > > >> > > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind > > > > of> > > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so > > > > that> > > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with> > > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while> > > > remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to > > > > maintain.> > > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Committed action:> > > >> > > > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > > >> > > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> > > > better.> > > >> > > > -joking> > > >> > > > -being lazy> > > >> > > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > > >> > > > -helping them to open up their hearts> > > >> > > > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so > > > > that> > > > I can go back to acceptance.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Any comments are welcome,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > With appreciation> > > >> > > > Henrik> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I am not talking about losing your memory...

But there is an event, and the way we perceive that event

Life is always neutral, no goods or bads...it's our perception of it that can

cause us to suffer...that perception forms our " stories "

I think we all need to check our " stories " , to see whether or not we are adding

fuel to the fire

Should's and Shouldn'ts, negative judgment words, assuming what someone else is

thinking, etc...........

A big one for anxiety sufferers, is the story that says they shouldn't be

experiencing anxiety...yet they are...

Causes so much additional inner turmoil

> > >

> > > This dropped into my inbox:

> > >

> > > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

> spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm

> just as tired of us devaluing our story — our personal history —

> as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

> honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to

> become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. "

> > >

> > > Augustus Masters

> > >

> > >

> > > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree

> just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

> And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the

> search for insight.

> > >

> > > Kate

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

"Life is always neutral, no goods or bads...it's our perception of it that can cause us to suffer...that perception forms our "stories"I said I was taking a break ... but this compels me to respond.

Case in point: At the age of 22, I was raped by a man who crawled through my bedroom window wearing a mask and stinking to high heaven. At the police lineup, I asked if I could identify him by smell, but they wouldn't allow that. So you would have me believe that that was a neutral event, that there is no good or bad? Suffering only comes from how we perceive it? That may be true in a sense, but yet, that is nonsensical if you really look at it. Suffering CAN and DOES come when there is no other way to perceive it except to recognize it as suffering. Unless you are not human.

I perceived that event as brutal and horrific. Was it not? For about a year, I was traumatized to the extent that I could not enter my apartment or an empty room at work without someone with me. My perception was that I was not safe when I was alone. However, I did not allow that to become the story of my life. I sought help for the grief and suffering and panic attacks that ensued, and I chose to not believe that all men are evil, that I was permanently damaged, that I would never feel safe again.

In that awful moment, however, there was no way to NOT suffer.

I wonder if you recognize that. And I, by no means, have been as brutalized as many people in this world. To allow an event to cause CONTINUAL suffering, is perhaps, not necessary. But even then, sometimes such events cause people to snap and they are forever changed, can never feel safe again.

Your theory that perception alone causes suffering doesn't tell the whole story, I think. Life may be always neutral to an amoeba.

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:40:35 PMSubject: Re: Your "story"

I am not talking about losing your memory...But there is an event, and the way we perceive that eventLife is always neutral, no goods or bads...it's our perception of it that can cause us to suffer...that perception forms our "stories"I think we all need to check our "stories", to see whether or not we are adding fuel to the fireShould's and Shouldn'ts, negative judgment words, assuming what someone else is thinking, etc...........A big one for anxiety sufferers, is the story that says they shouldn't be experiencing anxiety...yet they are...Causes so much additional inner turmoil > > >> > > This dropped into my inbox:> > >> > > "I'm tired of hearing others say: "It's just my story." I'm tired of> spiritual teachers telling their students "to drop their story." And I'm> just as tired of us devaluing our story — our personal history —> as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep> honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to> become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are."> > >> > > Augustus Masters> > >> > >> > > What do people think? I agree with him, the "drop your story" decree> just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.> And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the> search for insight.> > >> > > Kate> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I realize I am jumping in yet again on the coat-tails of a post by

Helena - Helena, I hope that is OK.

I want to say that I agree that it is not accurate or useful or

reflective of human values to say that it is " only perception "

that causes suffering.

I am reminded of a passage in " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your

Life " that talks about the nature of suffering & how language

(that is, " perception " ) influences our view of the world. The

passage then draws a distinction between that kind of suffering

and suffering in general: " If a grieving mother in Indonesia loses

everything to a tsunami, her suffering is horrible but, given her

horrific circumstances, it is to be expected. "

That sounds about right to me.

You can take any painful or shocking event - the death of a

parent, or of a child, or whatever you like - and say that it is

only our " perception " that renders it painful or traumatic. If you

like. But to take this point of view would deny the reality of

suffering as it is; and more than that, would deny pain. If it

could be made true (which I doubt) it would squeeze the life right

out of us.

That is not to say that extraordinary persons such as Buddhist

monks who have spent a lifetime in meditation do not cultivate

equanimity on a high level. But even there, I have read modern-day

accounts of Zen masters crying at someone's death. Who would dare

say to them, " Oh, you are enlightened; you should not feel sad? "

There is that tension about our stories that

mentioned & that others have mentioned in the story thread

recently. If stories seem too much in charge, that can aggravate

or cause suffering where maybe healing would be possible instead.

But if we had no stories at all we would scarcely be human.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

Yes, of course it's OK, Randy. I was stirred by my own experience of rape to speak about what felt like too simplistic an explanation of suffering; one that seemed to proclaim that its existence is due to perception only. And here again, it goes back to what we want to make our story, or not. You explained it so well, so thanks for chiming in.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:15:48 PMSubject: Re: Your "story"

I realize I am jumping in yet again on the coat-tails of a post byHelena - Helena, I hope that is OK. I want to say that I agree that it is not accurate or useful orreflective of human values to say that it is "only perception"that causes suffering. I am reminded of a passage in "Get Out of Your Mind and Into YourLife" that talks about the nature of suffering & how language(that is, "perception") influences our view of the world. Thepassage then draws a distinction between that kind of sufferingand suffering in general: "If a grieving mother in Indonesia loseseverything to a tsunami, her suffering is horrible but, given herhorrific circumstances, it is to be expected."That sounds about right to me. You can take any painful or shocking event - the death of aparent, or of a child, or whatever you like - and say that it isonly our "perception" that renders it painful or traumatic. If youlike. But to take this point of view would deny the reality ofsuffering as it is; and more than that, would deny pain. If itcould be made true (which I doubt) it would squeeze the life rightout of us. That is not to say that extraordinary persons such as Buddhistmonks who have spent a lifetime in meditation do not cultivateequanimity on a high level. But even there, I have read modern-dayaccounts of Zen masters crying at someone's death. Who would daresay to them, "Oh, you are enlightened; you should not feel sad?" There is that tension about our stories that mentioned & that others have mentioned in the story threadrecently. If stories seem too much in charge, that can aggravateor cause suffering where maybe healing would be possible instead.But if we had no stories at all we would scarcely be human.- Randy

[Guest guest]

Very good points, Randy.The funny thing is that I like my story, or most of it anyway. But there are a few points where I could have done better and they just rotate through my mind, causing me great suffering. To give up my whole story to get rid of the suffering would be a high price.I realize I am jumping in yet again on the coat-tails of a post byHelena - Helena, I hope that is OK. I want to say that I agree that it is not accurate or useful orreflective of human values to say that it is "only perception"that causes suffering. I am reminded of a passage in "Get Out of Your Mind and Into YourLife" that talks about the nature of suffering & how language(that is, "perception") influences our view of the world. Thepassage then draws a distinction between that kind of sufferingand suffering in general: "If a grieving mother in Indonesia loseseverything to a tsunami, her suffering is horrible but, given herhorrific circumstances, it is to be expected."That sounds about right to me. You can take any painful or shocking event - the death of aparent, or of a child, or whatever you like - and say that it isonly our "perception" that renders it painful or traumatic. If youlike. But to take this point of view would deny the reality ofsuffering as it is; and more than that, would deny pain. If itcould be made true (which I doubt) it would squeeze the life rightout of us. That is not to say that extraordinary persons such as Buddhistmonks who have spent a lifetime in meditation do not cultivateequanimity on a high level. But even there, I have read modern-dayaccounts of Zen masters crying at someone's death. Who would daresay to them, "Oh, you are enlightened; you should not feel sad?" There is that tension about our stories that mentioned & that others have mentioned in the story threadrecently. If stories seem too much in charge, that can aggravateor cause suffering where maybe healing would be possible instead.But if we had no stories at all we would scarcely be human.- Randy

[Guest guest]

Helena,

Your post and other people's response to it has caused me to start rethinking

something I've always to be be true, that " there's nothing good or bad but

thinking makes it so " as Hamlet said in my favourite and inexhaustibly rich

Shakespeare play.

While I spend a lot of my life in my head and think a lot (too much sometimes),

I don't always think deeply or well. I often tell myself that my beliefs about

the way the world works are tentative and subject to revision when I encounter

new facts or insights from others. That is, I want to treat a belief like a good

scientist treats a theory: as something that may or may not be true.

So, I've got some deep thinking (and feeling) to do!

Cheers,

Stan

> > > >

> > > > This dropped into my inbox:

> > > >

> > > > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

> > spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm

> > just as tired of us devaluing our story †" our personal history †"

> > as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

> > honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to

> > become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. "

> > > >

> > > > Augustus Masters

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree

> > just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

> > And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the

> > search for insight.

> > > >

> > > > Kate

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Don't know that I have any advice, but I appreciate your putting into words

something that I too struggle with. As I've said here before, my job is where I

tend to lose myself and turn into a person I don't want to be. Challenging

students tend to cause me to feel anxiety, but that is when I feel like I need

to be at my " best " that is feel calm and in control so I can perform like I need

to. So there I go struggling with how I feel which makes it even more difficult

for me to be the " super teacher " that I feel the need to be to deal with

difficult students. So it is in the events that matter to us most that we tend

to be the most vulnerable because we do care!!! Working on self-compassion and

understanding of why something I care about can also cause so much self-doubt!

>

> > Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the

> book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!? (the

> 63 year old)

>

>

>

> Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe some

> of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.

>

> Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more

> responsibility at work than before.

>

> This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not

> according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much

> responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My boss

> even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need

> help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that where

> pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became " non existent " .

>

>

>

>

> The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why

> not start with:

>

> I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french

> kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids

> section of the school where things where both soft but also barren). One

> day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who where

> 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was " promoted " . I think that that

> change contributed to me gradually stopping being " Henrik " and

> psychologically becoming an automaton.

>

>

>

>

> Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...

>

>

>

>

> That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming

> from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day, homework,

> getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go

> the bathroom, no liberty. The " upside " was learning to count, read and

> write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was

> no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading, writing

> or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded

> that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a

> mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and

> publicly mocked for it.

>

>

>

>

> ...

>

>

>

>

> I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---

>

> -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in

> situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.

>

> -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the

> teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all

> talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non existent

> romantic life.

>

> -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and

> straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access

> to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a " super

> person " .

>

> -etc...

>

>

>

>

> Acceptance and defusion:

>

> I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying

> this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.

>

>

>

>

> Values:

>

> While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind of

> person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so that

> it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with

> more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while

> remaining Henrik. " Henrik " is a concept that is hard for me to maintain.

> Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?

>

>

>

>

> Committed action:

>

> Perhaps " Henrik " is about:

>

> -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life

> better.

>

> -joking

>

> -being lazy

>

> -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients

>

> -helping them to open up their hearts

>

> -trying to slow things down when the " automaton " is taking over so that

> I can go back to acceptance.

>

>

>

>

> Any comments are welcome,

>

>

>

>

> With appreciation

>

> Henrik

>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Theresa, I too identify with feeling like there needs to be a certain outcome,

because anything less than what we see as our responsibility is not acceptable.

I've been told similar things about caring too much, expecting too much of

myself, but like you that made me feel more anxious, like something else I

wasn't doing well enough!! So that is when I try to observe and hold my stories

lightly!!! Yes, when a student does not respond to me the way I think they

should, it is going to cause anxiety because I do care and I don't like the

ambiguity of not knowing if I am going to find a way of working with that

student. I am going to see if I can interject 's dance metaphor in these

situations. I can't control how they respond but that is okay. I'll try

something else, see what comes of it and go from there.Do a little dancing.

There will be days when I wonder if I had any positive effect but I will work on

feeling compassion for myself and try not to expect for that not to bother me,

because I don't want to give up caring!!!!!!!

> > >

> > > >

> > > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the

> > > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!?

> > > > (the

> > > > 63 year old)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe

> > > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.

> > > >

> > > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more

> > > > responsibility at work than before.

> > > >

> > > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not

> > > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much

> > > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My

> > > > boss

> > > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need

> > > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that

> > > > where

> > > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became " non existent " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why

> > > > not start with:

> > > >

> > > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french

> > > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids

> > > > section of the school where things where both soft but also barren).

> > > > One

> > > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who

> > > > where

> > > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was " promoted " . I think that that

> > > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being " Henrik " and

> > > > psychologically becoming an automaton.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming

> > > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day,

> > > > homework,

> > > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go

> > > > the bathroom, no liberty. The " upside " was learning to count, read and

> > > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was

> > > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading,

> > > > writing

> > > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded

> > > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a

> > > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and

> > > > publicly mocked for it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---

> > > >

> > > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in

> > > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.

> > > >

> > > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the

> > > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all

> > > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non

> > > > existent

> > > > romantic life.

> > > >

> > > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and

> > > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access

> > > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a " super

> > > > person " .

> > > >

> > > > -etc...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Acceptance and defusion:

> > > >

> > > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying

> > > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Values:

> > > >

> > > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind

> > > > of

> > > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so

> > > > that

> > > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with

> > > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while

> > > > remaining Henrik. " Henrik " is a concept that is hard for me to

> > > > maintain.

> > > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Committed action:

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps " Henrik " is about:

> > > >

> > > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life

> > > > better.

> > > >

> > > > -joking

> > > >

> > > > -being lazy

> > > >

> > > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients

> > > >

> > > > -helping them to open up their hearts

> > > >

> > > > -trying to slow things down when the " automaton " is taking over so

> > > > that

> > > > I can go back to acceptance.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Any comments are welcome,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With appreciation

> > > >

> > > > Henrik

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At the risk of sounding dismissive of your painful experience, and also an

" amoeba " , I disagree

I know through your writings that you are attached to the belief that suffering

is inherent in certain situations, and you know that I do not...

While your reaction to being raped certainly sounds justified, you can't say

with any absolute certainty that " there was no way not to suffer " with our

limited perspective...for you, in that period, yes that was true for you, but

you can't speak for all

It also implies that suffering in and of itself is a " bad " thing, which you

couldn't honestly say is true, and that your experience shouldn't* have

happened, which I know you don't believe in...so if it should, how can you

ultimately say it was " bad "

Good and Bad, like other dualities, are merely mental constructs we use to make

sense of the world, to define things in relation to one another. It's always

based on a comparison to a subjective standard of " good " and " bad " , that can

only exist in relation and never in isolation...it is an illusion...In the real

world though, where things do not require their opposite in order for us to

understand them, there is only What Is

Hope this meets you with the kind intention if is being given

> > > >

> > > > This dropped into my inbox:

> > > >

> > > > " I'm tired of hearing others say: " It's just my story. " I'm tired of

> > spiritual teachers telling their students " to drop their story. " And I'm

> > just as tired of us devaluing our story †" our personal history †"

> > as I am of us overvaluing or overdramatizing it. What's needed is a deep

> > honoring of our story, through which we mine from it what we need to

> > become more integrated, more real, more at home with all that we are. "

> > > >

> > > > Augustus Masters

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > What do people think? I agree with him, the " drop your story " decree

> > just grates on my nerves, it seems so dismissive and non-compassionate.

> > And so simplistic, it's a catch phrase that inhibits and negates the

> > search for insight.

> > > >

> > > > Kate

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Good and Bad, like other dualities, are merely mental

> constructs ... In the real world though, where things

> do not require their opposite in order for us to

> understand them, there is only What Is

Come out, come out from behind your theory, please. People

are disclosing how they are really hurting, and you are

responding by telling them they are imagining it.

Your message is not directed to me, but as it is going out

on a list where many people are listening, I would like to

ask a question or two.

Namely, what is *your* experience of pain & suffering? Can

you share that experience as openly & bravely as Helena

shared hers?

Can you share how your theory of " illusion " works for you,

in your own life? In the nitty gritty and not in the abstract?

- Randy

[Guest guest]

No need to take it personally as you are speaking in place of Helena...nobody is

being attacked here

I didn't say she " imagined " anything...I said " good " and " bad " are an illusion

Right there is an example of how the mind can tell a story...jumping ahead and

attaching meaning and intention, taking it personally, and wanting to strike

back, so to speak...

I have shared very openly plenty of painful experiences on this board though out

the years...I am thankful that she was able to be so open but I am not sure why

it is even relevant to this discussion for me to somehow match it...I

differentiate between the 2 though...one is via a physical experience in the

world of form, the other is mental...suffering is pain we hold onto

There is no " theory " here...one cannot say with any truth, that there is a

" good " or " bad " in absolute terms, there simply IS...I cannot even count the

numerous experiences in my life that I initially judged as something negative

only to realize later, that it was an invaluable experience...

> >

> > Good and Bad, like other dualities, are merely mental

> > constructs ... In the real world though, where things

> > do not require their opposite in order for us to

> > understand them, there is only What Is

>

> Come out, come out from behind your theory, please. People

> are disclosing how they are really hurting, and you are

> responding by telling them they are imagining it.

>

> Your message is not directed to me, but as it is going out

> on a list where many people are listening, I would like to

> ask a question or two.

>

> Namely, what is *your* experience of pain & suffering? Can

> you share that experience as openly & bravely as Helena

> shared hers?

>

> Can you share how your theory of " illusion " works for you,

> in your own life? In the nitty gritty and not in the abstract?

>

> - Randy

>

[Guest guest]

Bruce, thanks for the question... Does this make sense? :

"Having fun" possibly needs some explanation...

what I meant with fun was...

-connecting, cutting my self some slack, joking, taking time off, giving myself breaks from work, working with my clients in a way that is both theory driven but also intuitional...

The outcome of this is... I'm having fun

But it's really hard to pin point what it is that I'm doing that leads to "I'm having fun". Maybe I'm missing something.

My committment is : When I'm not enjoying my work, there's something wrong with the way I'm doing it. I then need to change the way I do it, so that I'll enjoy work again.

The change could be acceptance of emotions, defusion from thoughts or just physically changing something - all depending on what the circumstance is.

That is also hard to pin point.

Henrik

Can having fun really be a value? I certainly value having fun but I don't seem to be able to take action towards it. Some people say that you can't catch fun by chasing it. That's kind of been my experience. I feel like I can try and have a positive attitude towards possible pleasure. But can one consciously have fun?

Bruce

Thank you, Theresa, fo r your thoughtful answer!You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even though society would say the opposite sometimes. I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart, slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time. Henrik > > > > > > >> > > & gt;> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> > > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!? > > > > (the> > > > 63 year old)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe > > > > some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.> > > >> > > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> > > > responsibility at work than before.> > > >> > > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not> > > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> > > > responsibility for the whole organ ization, for my colleagues ... My > > > > boss> > > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need> > > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that > > > > where> > > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non existent".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why> > > > not start with:> > > >> > > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> > > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> > > > section of the school where things where both soft but also barren). > > > > One> > > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who > > > > where> > > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> > > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik" and> > > > psychologically becoming an automaton.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming> > > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day, > > > > homework,> > > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go> > > > the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read and> > > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was> > > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading, > > > > writing> > > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded> > > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> > > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> > > > publicly mocked for it.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I th ink this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > > >> > > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> > > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > > >> > > > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the> > > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all> > > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non > > > > existent> > > > romantic life.> > > >> > > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> > > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access> > > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a "super> > > > person" .> > > >> > > > -etc...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Acceptance and defusion:> > > >> > > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying> > > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Values:> > > >> > > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind > > > > of> > > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so > > > > that> > > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with> > > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while> > > > remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to > > > > maintain.> > > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Committed action:> > > >> > > > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > > >> > > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> > > > better.> > > >> > > > -joking> > > >> > > > -being lazy> > > >> > > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > > >> > > > -helping them to open up their hearts> > > >> > > > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so > > > > that> > > > I can go back to acceptance.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Any comments are welcome,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > With appreciation> > > >> > > > Henrik> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your answer ,

I can certainly relate to wanting to be a "superperson" at work. Ouch!

Henrik

Don't know that I have any advice, but I appreciate your putting into words something that I too struggle with. As I've said here before, my job is where I tend to lose myself and turn into a person I don't want to be. Challenging students tend to cause me to feel anxiety, but that is when I feel like I need to be at my "best" that is feel calm and in control so I can perform like I need to. So there I go struggling with how I feel which makes it even more difficult for me to be the " super teacher" that I feel the need to be to deal with difficult students. So it is in the events that matter to us most that we tend to be the most vulnerable because we do care!!! Working on self-compassion and understanding of why something I care about can also cause so much self-doubt!>> > Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!? (the> 63 year old)> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe some> of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.> > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> responsibility at work than before.> > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not> according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My boss> even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need> help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that where> pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non existent".> > > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why> not start with:> > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> section of the school where things where both soft but also barren). One> day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who where> 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik" and> psychologically becoming an automaton.> > > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming> from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day, homework,> getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go> the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read and> write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was> no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading, writing> or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded> that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> publicly mocked for it.> > > > > ...> > > > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > -I keep to myself inside my head (I found safety in my head when the> teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all> talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non existent> romantic life.> > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access> to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a "super> person".> > -etc...> > > > > Acceptance and defusion:> > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all the while carrying> this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > > > > Values:> > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind of> person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so that> it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with> more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while> remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to maintain.> Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?> > > > > Committed action:> > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> better.> > -joking> > -being lazy> > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > -helping them to open up their hearts> > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so that> I can go back to acceptance.> > > > > Any comments are welcome,> > > > > With appreciation> > Henrik> > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce,

One of my values is fun. I just bought a soft top car - I like to watch my daughter in the back seat with the wind in her hair and a big grin on her face. I don't say that I 'chase' fun for the sake of it - rather I value it as a positive time to spend time rather than mouldering around inside my head.

I challenge you to do one silly fun thing today!

Simone

Thank you, Theresa, for your thoughtful answer!You make good points... About how my mind can rob me of my joy of being promoted. And that opening my heart is a good thing. I absolutely agree - even though society would say the opposite sometimes. I take your suggestion of looking closely at the part of my mind that I can't control all the while letting values guide me: having fun, opening up my heart, slowing down, caring, displaying my humor... and looking for smart short-cuts.Thank you for telling us about the little 5 year old who wanted to hide in the small holes because everybody else seemed to know where they where. I can relate to that. I didn't know where I was either. + terrified all the time. Henrik > > > > > > >> > > >> Steve, thanks for telling more about that chapter in the> > > > book of your life! Can I say that the new chapter sounds exciting!? > > > > (the> > > > 63 year old)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Your story catapulted me into a dilemma - a runaway fusion: Maybe > > >

> some of you would like to give me some input? Sorry for the long post.> > > >> > > > Recently, I have been promoted - i.e. I have a little more> > > > responsibility at work than before.> > > >> > > > This small promotion has changed how I see work in ways that are not> > > > according to my values. What I mean is I take too tooo much> > > > responsibility for the whole organization, for my colleagues ... My > > > > boss> > > > even warned me of this when she asked me- she said that I would need> > > > help not taking this role too seriously. My values at work - that > > > > where> > > > pretty clear before I was asked - suddenly became "non

existent".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The story that could be attached to this could be one of many but why> > > > not start with:> > > >> > > > I was a 3,5 years old swedish speaking kid, going to an all french> > > > kindergarten (We where living in France) going to the smaller kids> > > > section of the school where things where both soft but also barren). > > > > One> > > > day, out of the blue I was moved up to the older kids section who > > > > where> > > > 3 - 5 years old. You could say I was "promoted". I think that that> > > > change contributed to me gradually stopping being "Henrik"

and> > > > psychologically becoming an automaton.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry folks... the next part is heavy...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > That promotion took away everything joyful and added fear, screaming> > > > from the sadistic teacher, discipline, sitting still all day, > > > > homework,> > > > getting locked in, not being allowed to talk, not being allowed to go> > > > the bathroom, no liberty. The "upside" was learning to count, read and> > > > write. As I was swedish, I didn't get what is was all about. There was> > > > no upside for me, unfortunately. I didn't learn either reading, > > > > writing> > > > or counting to 100. I was there for 1,5 years. I was always reminded> > > > that I was the slowest/most stupid (but most silent which was a> > > > mitigating circumstance) pupil in the class, and was punished and> > > > publicly mocked for it.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I think this story and others still influences me in many ways ---> > > >> > > > -I often hold back from taking initiatives that could put me in> > > > situations where I'm challenged in unexpected ways.> > > >> > > > -I keep to myself inside my head

(I found safety in my head when the> > > > teacher was screaming and when I didn't understand what they where all> > > > talking about). I have a limited social life and an almost non > > > > existent> > > > romantic life.> > > >> > > > -When in new, challenging situations - my back becomes rigid and> > > > straight and I loose myself to a kind of automaton with limited access> > > > to any kind of thinking process - trying to act the part of a "super> > > > person".> > > >> > > > -etc...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Acceptance and defusion:> > > >> > > > I need to accept this story and defuse from it, all

the while carrying> > > > this little kid with me - the way you often model it, Steve.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Values:> > > >> > > > While doing this, I need to find myself - Henrik - and see what kind > > > > of> > > > person I want to be at work. What can I change in the way I work so > > > > that> > > > it's fun to go to work? The world is changing faster and faster, with> > > > more and more challenges - so I need to change with it - all the while> > > > remaining Henrik. "Henrik" is a concept that is hard for me to > > > >

maintain.> > > > Is it even useful as it could be moving deeper into self as concept?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Committed action:> > > >> > > > Perhaps "Henrik" is about:> > > >> > > > -finding smart ways and short cuts to do things that make my life> > > > better.> > > >> > > > -joking> > > >> > > > -being lazy> > > >> > > > -opening up my heart to my colleagues, friends and clients> > > >> > > > -helping them to open up their hearts> > > >> > > > -trying to slow things down when the "automaton" is taking over so > > > > that> >

> > I can go back to acceptance.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Any comments are welcome,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > With appreciation> > > >> > > > Henrik> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >>