Re: What Dr Russ said about disconnection

[Guest guest]

I think like other ACT processes, if you try to do something to avoid another

thing, you will just give it more power...doesn't mean you can't do other thing,

just means, if your intentions are to avoid something, you won't really be

accepting it

What you resist, persists

True acceptance allows for the feeling with no preferred outcome

Maybe loneliness is here to teach you something...feel it, breathe it, see what

it says...maybe a motivator to branch out? I am sure if you looked closely, it

has already taught you some wonderful things...maybe compassion, empathy,

etc...there is a balance between acceptance and action that is to be found..

Also I would question your usage of the word " treat " ...it kind of implies that

what you are feeling is something that needs to be rid of...

Feelings and emotions are an affect, not a cause, and are futility resisted by

most of us including myself...they are perfectly natural and are reflective of

your thoughts/beliefs...use them as a signal to question your thinking

Others might add that loneliness is inherent in humans as we are generally

social beings...if so, just another reason not to treat yourself as something is

wrong with you...

Best,

VC

>

> One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of

loneliness with so

> little contact with the very few friends that I've got left. It's

disconnection rather

> than physical aloneness.

>

> Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to " connection with nature, or our

work, or our

> hobby, or our sport " plus

>

> > Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and

feelings disappear.

> > But even if they don't, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not

interfere with

> > creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something

important.

>

>

> But I've got another question.

>

> Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more

" emotionally

> independent " ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even

notice the

> disconnection .......

>

> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that

comes with

> little contact with friends.

>

> Is there some way that I can do this?? Dr Russ ....... can you help??

>

> Hope this makes sense .......

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

iolanda, I can really appreciate that wanting to be as independent as possible is valuable to you - it is to everyone but seems even even more important when one has to deal with physical limitations, as you do. It seems to me that trying to do something to "prevent" the feelings of disconnection means that you are struggling with the issue (wanting to change things) rather than accepting "what is" in the moment - the feelings of lonliness. Sure, it's OK to become more independent as long as you aren't doing that to "fix" your feelings. You may feel even more disconnected as you become more independent - who knows? In your situation, as in mine, it is perfectly normal to feel lonely as your personal contacts dwindle down; I don't have enough of those, either, but I can get out of the house, go to work, etc. You have fewer options, so my heart really goes out to you.

Maybe you can re-read some of Russ's book to get a clearer understanding.

Helena

To: "ACT" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:34:50 PMSubject: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of loneliness with so little contact with the very few friends that I've got left. It's disconnection rather than physical aloneness.Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to "connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport" plus

Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important. But I've got another question.Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the disconnection ....... um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with little contact with friends.Is there some way that I can do this?? Dr Russ ....... can you help??Hope this makes sense ....... iolanda

[Guest guest]

As I understand it -- and my understanding may be deficient -- Act is about allowing your feelings and thoughts, no matter what they are, or what your personal circumstances. For many if not most of us, the strategy we've developed for dealing with all kinds of pain is one of avoidance. Act says that this strategy is unproductive, and usually makes things worse. Allowing oneself to feel all those feelings, and thinking all those thoughts, no matter how painful, is the best way forward, and I cannot argue with that. Why?Well, seems to me that when I can actually allow myself to feel those painful feelings, and think those painful thoughts, the result is counterintuitive. Oh, there may be tears, plenty of them, in fact, but they're of the cleansing kind, not the strenuously resisting kind.Listen to me! I'm a very poor example. Almost every waking moment is spent in that seemingly futile resistance. From the outside, the pain seems insurmountable. I fear that I might drown in a whirlpool of horribleness and pain. See the pattern? Thanks, mind.Just a few thoughts. I'm semi-numbed thanks to alcohol -- it's the only legal drug I can get. Dr C won't give me anything to help me in my fight against not feeling, the bastard. The juice helps me sink into a semi-stupor that serves as sleep.Tomorrow is another day. Maybe I'll be able to feel.Regards,Detlef>> > > iolanda, I can really appreciate that wanting to be as independent as possible is valuable to you - it is to everyone but seems even even more important when one has to deal with physical limitations, as you do. It seems to me that t rying to do something to "prevent" the feelings of disconnection means that you are struggling with the issue (wanting to change things) rather than accepting "what is" in the moment - the feelings of lonliness . Sure, it's OK to become more independent as long as you aren't doing that to "fix" your feelings . You may feel even more disconnected as you become more independent - who knows? In your situation, as in mine, it is perfectly normal to feel lonely as your personal contacts dwindle down; I don't have enough of those, either, but I can get out of the house, go to work, etc. You have fewer options, so my heart really goes out to you. > > > > Maybe you can re-read some of Russ's book to get a clearer understanding. > > > > Helena > > > What Dr Russ said about "disconnection" > > > > > > > One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of loneliness with so little contact with the very few friends that I've got left. It's disconnection rather than physical aloneness. > > Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to " connection with nature, or our work, or our hobby, or our sport" plus > > > > Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important. > > But I've got another question. > > Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the disconnection ....... > > um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with little contact with friends. > > Is there some way that I can do this?? Dr Russ ....... can you help?? > > Hope this makes sense ....... > > iolanda>

[Guest guest]

One thing that has also helped me with the feeling of loneliness

Is that, because we often attach " loneliness " with a negative

connotation...labeling it that, can lead to a subtle resistance to guard against

it...I find that when you feel that feeling, try to just label it as " feeling "

instead...and that will sometimes just allow you to slip into it, and see that

it too, is safe

Maybe there is a good cry inside of it

You can do this with other emotions also

The more you are able to accept the feeling, the less power it will have over

you

>

>

>

> iolanda, I can really appreciate that wanting to be as  independent as

possible is valuable to you - it is to everyone  but seems even even more

important when one has to deal with physical limitations, as you do.  It seems

to me that t rying to do something to " prevent " the feelings of disconnection

means that you are struggling with the issue (wanting to change things) rather

than accepting " what is " in the moment - the feelings of lonliness .  Sure,

it's OK to become more  independent as long as you aren't doing that to " fix "

your feelings .  You may feel even more disconnected as you become more

independent - who knows?   In your situation, as in mine, it is perfectly

normal to feel lonely as your personal contacts dwindle down; I don't have

enough of those, either, but I can get out of the house, go to work, etc. 

You have fewer options, so my heart really goes out to you. 

>

>

>

> Maybe you can re-read some of Russ's book to get a clearer understanding.

>

>

>

> Helena

>

>

> What Dr Russ said about " disconnection "

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of

loneliness with so little contact with the very few friends that I've got

left.  It's disconnection rather than physical aloneness.

>

> Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to " connection with nature, or our

work, or our hobby, or our sport "    plus

>

>

>

> Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings

disappear. But even if they don’t, provided we accept and defuse them, they

need not interfere with creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with

something important.

>

> But I've got another question.

>

> Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more 

" emotionally independent " ......... ie.  try to do something (xyz)  so that I

don't even notice the disconnection .......

>

> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that

comes with little contact with friends.

>

> Is there some way that I can do this??  Dr Russ ....... can you help??

>

> Hope this makes sense .......

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the awesome link to this video, Lou! You seem to be in touch with the neatest music, and I appreciate your sharing it.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:51:53 PMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

Hi Iolanda,In my moments of feeling disconnected with the world or the people in it, I attempt to recall other moments of when connection existed and if that's not possible in the moment, I try to imagine what having those connections looks/feels like. It can bring on the feeling of wanting, or longing maybe but as Detlef said, "...there may be tears...but they're of the cleansing kind...". When I am able to honestly experience even a little sense of connection it becomes easier to accept those moments of being alone. It can also lead me towards working on the actions I can take to make the connections I imagine/desire.I use music a lot in my ACT work and have specific songs that take me into certain emotions. The song I use to remind me of the properties of the human desire for connection is, "Just Breathe" by Pearl Jam (found at the link below...)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WS4c0wU5Uo & list=PL5053B7000968C6CCI hope it helps.Lou>> One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of loneliness with so > little contact with the very few friends that I've got left. It's disconnection rather > than physical aloneness.> > Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to "connection with nature, or our work, or our > hobby, or our sport" plus> > > Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and feelings disappear. > > But even if they don't, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not interfere with > > creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something important. > > > But I've got another question.> > Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally > independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the > disconnection .......> > um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with > little contact with friends.> > Is there some way that I can do this?? Dr Russ ....... can you help??> > Hope this makes sense .......> > iolanda>

[Guest guest]

Re: Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more

" emotionally independent " ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I

don't even notice the disconnection .......

um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that

comes with little contact with friends. Is there some way that I can do this??

Dr Russ ....... can you help??

`````````````````````````

Well I'm not Russ (may not catch this since conference is going on in

Italy) but short answer to your question without seeing the entire reference is

both yes and no.

Prevention as in making yourself fully immune from feeling pain associated with

what we call loneliness? No, feelings of loneliness and disconnection come and

go in varying degrees with the package of being human. And as you have come to

no doubt learn by now, the more you fuse with these thoughts and feelings (as in

letting them run the show, dominate your days) the more suffering will ensue.

But prevention defined very loosely, yes, although I'd not call it prevention,

because prevention implies a direct attempt to ward off, fight against. But yes

because ACT is about psychological freedom. I'd say valuing behavior indirectly

supports a kind of emotional freedom, although might not look like anything you

had imagined. (And why the open curious posture is very helpful!). So yes if

" emotional independence " is psychological freedom that comes from engaging

chosen valued activity (and also assuming not just keeping busy, going through

motions which can be more avoidance behavior).

There are no short-cuts, no ways out of the pain life and history toss our way

now and again. Choosing valuing behavior alongside the other ACT process) may

not result in a lessening of pain associated with loneliness, or it may over

time. But thing is, you really can't lose with this option because in the

meantime you'll be engaging valued behavior, and that's only a good thing. I'm

finding amazing surprises along the way, as i do this in tiny chunks and sensing

I'm only touching the surface. So, who knows what you may encounter as you do

so? Maybe more connection? Maybe something else you hadn't expected?

hope that helps some!

terry

>

> One of the frequent thoughts that I've got to 'treat' is my feelings of

loneliness with so

> little contact with the very few friends that I've got left. It's

disconnection rather

> than physical aloneness.

>

> Back in February Dr Russ had recommended to " connection with nature, or our

work, or our

> hobby, or our sport " plus

>

> > Often as we cultivate that connection, those unpleasant thoughts and

feelings disappear.

> > But even if they don't, provided we accept and defuse them, they need not

interfere with

> > creating a meaningful and life-enhancing connection with something

important.

>

>

> But I've got another question.

>

> Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more

" emotionally

> independent " ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even

notice the

> disconnection .......

>

> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that

comes with

> little contact with friends.

>

> Is there some way that I can do this?? Dr Russ ....... can you help??

>

> Hope this makes sense .......

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your replies .... it's really appreciated.

I gave this example .......

> Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more

" emotionally

> independent " ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even

notice the

> disconnection .......

>

> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that

comes with

> little contact with friends.

I can't explain it properly, so I'll give an analogy a try .......

Just say you're a person who is really physically dependent on people because

you're too

lazy to do things yourself or to think for yourself. So your flatmate does this

shopping.

You have friends that drive you to the social occasions ..... you don't get

dressed before

going out to socials until your friernds tell you what you should wear. Know

what I mean?

Then just imagine what would happen in your friends took a dislike to you or

your flatmate

was sick of doing your shopping. You'd have nobody to shop for you, to drive you

places,

to tell you what to buy and wear etc. So you really miss these things ..... you

use the

diffusion technique when the thoughts come to you.

But the difference is that this person should 'wake up' and realise that rather

than

" diffuse " these thoughts she should actually do something to fix the situation

up so that

she won't get the thoughts ..... she could get up off-her lounge and do her own

shopping,

she could drive herself out to social occasions, she should be old an

independent enough

to make her own decisions about what she should buy and wear ......... so by

realising

this - that she should actually be more independent and less reliant on others -

she's on

her way to fixing the problem so that it won't come up too often .....

Can you see what I'm trying to say? I hope so as it's really hard to explain it

........

Can someone please confirm whether you've been able to understand what I mean?

Just so I'm

not left wondering!

And thanks everyone for your previous replies .......

iolanda

--

Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)

[Guest guest]

Yes, your example is perfectly clear but it is not what I thought you meant in your first post. Do you actually know anybody like that? The person in this example, who is lazy and relies on her friends to do her shopping and take her places, is clearly not living according to her values if one of her values is to be independent.

If you want more independence in your life so that it will take away your loneliness, then it won't work because you will get caught up in the struggle of wanting something to be different than it is. The 'right' reason to work for more independence in your life would be to engage in actions that honor your value of being independent without expecting it to reduce your lonliness. But also, if you value emotional connections with people, along with independence, then you would do everything you can to nurture connections with others. If your situation limits you in this endeavor, acceptance is key along with defusion of the thoughts "nobody likes me or wants to be with me," etc.

Hope that is helpful.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:01:20 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"Thanks everyone for your replies .... it's really appreciated.I gave this example .......> Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally > independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the > disconnection .......>> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with > little contact with friends.I can't explain it properly, so I'll give an analogy a try .......Just say you're a person who is really physically dependent on people because you're too lazy to do things yourself or to think for yourself. So your flatmate does this shopping. You have friends that drive you to the social occasions ..... you don't get dressed before going out to socials until your friernds tell you what you should wear. Know what I mean?Then just imagine what would happen in your friends took a dislike to you or your flatmate was sick of doing your shopping. You'd have nobody to shop for you, to drive you places, to tell you what to buy and wear etc. So you really miss these things ..... you use the diffusion technique when the thoughts come to you.But the difference is that this person should 'wake up' and realise that rather than "diffuse" these thoughts she should actually do something to fix the situation up so that she won't get the thoughts ..... she could get up off-her lounge and do her own shopping, she could drive herself out to social occasions, she should be old an independent enough to make her own decisions about what she should buy and wear ......... so by realising this - that she should actually be more independent and less reliant on others - she's on her way to fixing the problem so that it won't come up too often .....Can you see what I'm trying to say? I hope so as it's really hard to explain it .......Can someone please confirm whether you've been able to understand what I mean? Just so I'm not left wondering!And thanks everyone for your previous replies .......iolanda-- Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

I should add that the person in the example is not living according to her value of independence IF she is physically capable of doing her own shopping and going places, but is just lazy. If she is not able to do these things herself, that is a different story, and one in which acceptance is key. If being as independent as she can be is a value, that should be pursued on its own merit, AND it may bring about less loneliness as a side effect, but it might not; to expect a particular outcome leaves no room for acceptance of what is and what will be.

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:48:08 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

Yes, your example is perfectly clear but it is not what I thought you meant in your first post. Do you actually know anybody like that? The person in this example, who is lazy and relies on her friends to do her shopping and take her places, is clearly not living according to her values if one of her values is to be independent.

If you want more independence in your life so that it will take away your loneliness, then it won't work because you will get caught up in the struggle of wanting something to be different than it is. The 'right' reason to work for more independence in your life would be to engage in actions that honor your value of being independent without expecting it to reduce your lonliness. But also, if you value emotional connections with people, along with independence, then you would do everything you can to nurture connections with others. If your situation limits you in this endeavor, acceptance is key along with defusion of the thoughts "nobody likes me or wants to be with me," etc.

Hope that is helpful.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:01:20 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"Thanks everyone for your replies .... it's really appreciated.I gave this example .......> Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally > independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the > disconnection .......>> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with > little contact with friends.I can't explain it properly, so I'll give an analogy a try .......Just say you're a person who is really physically dependent on people because you're too lazy to do things yourself or to think for yourself. So your flatmate does this shopping. You have friends that drive you to the social occasions ..... you don't get dressed before going out to socials until your friernds tell you what you should wear. Know what I mean?Then just imagine what would happen in your friends took a dislike to you or your flatmate was sick of doing your shopping. You'd have nobody to shop for you, to drive you places, to tell you what to buy and wear etc. So you really miss these things ..... you use the diffusion technique when the thoughts come to you.But the difference is that this person should 'wake up' and realise that rather than "diffuse" these thoughts she should actually do something to fix the situation up so that she won't get the thoughts ..... she could get up off-her lounge and do her own shopping, she could drive herself out to social occasions, she should be old an independent enough to make her own decisions about what she should buy and wear ......... so by realising this - that she should actually be more independent and less reliant on others - she's on her way to fixing the problem so that it won't come up too often .....Can you see what I'm trying to say? I hope so as it's really hard to explain it .......Can someone please confirm whether you've been able to understand what I mean? Just so I'm not left wondering!And thanks everyone for your previous replies .......iolanda-- Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

Hi all I don’t think I have posted before on this group, but the ‘disconnection’ caught my attention. Helena, your post was really helpful and I wanted to add an example to bring alive what you have suggested in your post.   I am going to share with you an example from my own life that might help illustrate this. For my birthday last month, I really wanted to invite my friends home and have a bbq.  It dawned on me that I was so alone, despite having friends I could invite, I felt that I had no one to help me put up my gazebo, no one to help me prepare the food, no one to help me start the bbq and light the charcoal.  I then began to feel so lonely and really hard done by.  I had no one to help me, I felt angry, frustrated and extremely alone.  I thought, why should I bother? I’ll feel alone and miserable anyway? I decided to just simply notice my thoughts around this ‘I notice I am having the thought that I wish someone could help me’ ‘I’m noticing I am having the thought that It’s so unfair’ ‘I’m noticing I’m having the thought why aren’t my parents here’ ‘I’m noticing I am having the thought if only I had time for more of a social life, I would have someone to help me’ And I sat with my feelings of sadness, loneliness, anger and frustration.  I had a good old cry and continued to notice what was coming up for me. Then, I said to myself, well, what do I want? What do I really value? What will having a bbq with my friends be in the service of?  Well, I value connecting with my friends and I really want to have a bbq so I can have my friends over and give my friends a good fun evening.  I value connection, and contribution and love.  Ok, so maybe it’s ok to feel angry and lonely right now, and to go and buy the charcoal and put the big gazebo up all by myself.  I can still feel sad and angry and lonely, but I will still choose to do x y and z by myself because doing x y and z by myself will enable me to live my values of connection and contribution to my friends.  And I might feel lonely, angry and sad, whilst I’m doing all these things by myself, but I’m going to do these things anyway. So defusion isn’t about ‘getting rid of’ thoughts, or accepting a situation that one is not happy with.  It’s really about creating some space to freely choose how to respond to the situations that we find ourselves in.  It helps us develop flexibility.  I defused from my thoughts, I still felt extreme loneliness, frustration and anger whilst I was putting up the gazebo and doing all the preparing for the bbq.  I occasionally felt lonely during the bbq when all my friends were around me, knowing they would all have to leave – but I still chose to do all of these things, despite how I felt, and despite all my thoughts.  What defusion enabled me to do, was give me the space to choose to ACT rather than give up and NOT ACT. I think it would be helpful to:· Explore values: Is independence really a value? What will independence give this person? What is independence in the service of? Also, what will a feeling of connection give you? What is this in the service of? · Keep in mind that ‘defusion from thoughts’ is different from ‘willingness to experience feelings’  If we are defusing from thoughts in order to not feel certain things, then the defusion won’t work. Sorry for such a long post – and hope this is helpful. Tas From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of hbbrSent: 16 July 2011 16:01To: ACT for the PublicSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about " disconnection " I should add that the person in the example is not living according to her value of independence IF she is physically capable of doing her own shopping and going places, but is just lazy. If she is not able to do these things herself, that is a different story, and one in which acceptance is key. If being as independent as she can be is a value, that should be pursued on its own merit, AND it may bring about less loneliness as a side effect, but it might not; to expect a particular outcome leaves no room for acceptance of what is and what will be. To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:48:08 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about " disconnection " Yes, your example is perfectly clear but it is not what I thought you meant in your first post. Do you actually know anybody like that? The person in this example, who is lazy and relies on her friends to do her shopping and take her places, is clearly not living according to her values if one of her values is to be independent. If you want more independence in your life so that it will take away your loneliness, then it won't work because you will get caught up in the struggle of wanting something to be different than it is. The 'right' reason to work for more independence in your life would be to engage in actions that honor your value of being independent without expecting it to reduce your lonliness. But also, if you value emotional connections with people, along with independence, then you would do everything you can to nurture connections with others. If your situation limits you in this endeavor, acceptance is key along with defusion of the thoughts " nobody likes me or wants to be with me, " etc.Hope that is helpful. Helena To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:01:20 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about " disconnection " Thanks everyone for your replies .... it's really appreciated.I gave this example .......> Is it possible to even " prevent " the problem by trying to become more " emotionally > independent " ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the > disconnection .......>> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with > little contact with friends.I can't explain it properly, so I'll give an analogy a try .......Just say you're a person who is really physically dependent on people because you're too lazy to do things yourself or to think for yourself. So your flatmate does this shopping. You have friends that drive you to the social occasions ..... you don't get dressed before going out to socials until your friernds tell you what you should wear. Know what I mean?Then just imagine what would happen in your friends took a dislike to you or your flatmate was sick of doing your shopping. You'd have nobody to shop for you, to drive you places, to tell you what to buy and wear etc. So you really miss these things ..... you use the diffusion technique when the thoughts come to you.But the difference is that this person should 'wake up' and realise that rather than " diffuse " these thoughts she should actually do something to fix the situation up so that she won't get the thoughts ..... she could get up off-her lounge and do her own shopping, she could drive herself out to social occasions, she should be old an independent enough to make her own decisions about what she should buy and wear ......... so by realising this - that she should actually be more independent and less reliant on others - she's on her way to fixing the problem so that it won't come up too often .....Can you see what I'm trying to say? I hope so as it's really hard to explain it .......Can someone please confirm whether you've been able to understand what I mean? Just so I'm not left wondering!And thanks everyone for your previous replies .......iolanda-- Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tas,

Thanks for sharing such a pertinent example of ACT in action!

As for exploring values, I think we all need to do that again and again over time. Our values may change as life progresses. I do value independence and connection with others. Independence is in service of not having to always be reliant on others to have my needs met; it is really a basic survival tool for me - but one can never forget that we also need others to survive. Connection with others is in service of living fully and purposefully as a human being; having a sense of belonging is crucial to mental health. I think both of these are basic values common to most of us, but how we define and achieve independence and connection may (probably does) differ among us.

I agree that defusion should not be practiced so we don't feel things. It is just a tool to keep us from buying into our thoughts and feelings while, at the same time, allowing them to exist. Willingness to experience our feelings is absolutely critical in the ACT process.

Welcome to your first posting, and thanks for your input! Keep posting; I think you have a lot of helpful things to say.

Helena

From: "Taslim Tharani" <taslim.tharanigmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:20:33 PMSubject: RE: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

Hi all

I don’t think I have posted before on this group, but the ‘disconnection’ caught my attention.

Helena, your post was really helpful and I wanted to add an example to bring alive what you have suggested in your post.

I am going to share with you an example from my own life that might help illustrate this.

For my birthday last month, I really wanted to invite my friends home and have a bbq. It dawned on me that I was so alone, despite having friends I could invite, I felt that I had no one to help me put up my gazebo, no one to help me prepare the food, no one to help me start the bbq and light the charcoal. I then began to feel so lonely and really hard done by. I had no one to help me, I felt angry, frustrated and extremely alone. I thought, why should I bother? I’ll feel alone and miserable anyway? I decided to just simply notice my thoughts around this ‘I notice I am having the thought that I wish someone could help me’ ‘I’m noticing I am having the thought that It’s so unfair’ ‘I’m noticing I’m having the thought why aren’t my parents here’ ‘I’m noticing I am having the thought if only I had time for more of a social life, I would have someone to help me’ And I sat with my feelings of sadness, loneliness, anger and frustration. I had a good old cry and continued to notice what was coming up for me.

Then, I said to myself, well, what do I want? What do I really value? What will having a bbq with my friends be in the service of? Well, I value connecting with my friends and I really want to have a bbq so I can have my friends over and give my friends a good fun evening. I value connection, and contribution and love. Ok, so maybe it’s ok to feel angry and lonely right now, and to go and buy the charcoal and put the big gazebo up all by myself. I can still feel sad and angry and lonely, but I will still choose to do x y and z by myself because doing x y and z by myself will enable me to live my values of connection and contribution to my friends. And I might feel lonely, angry and sad, whilst I’m doing all these things by myself, but I’m going to do these things anyway.

So defusion isn’t about ‘getting rid of’ thoughts, or accepting a situation that one is not happy with. It’s really about creating some space to freely choose how to respond to the situations that we find ourselves in. It helps us develop flexibility. I defused from my thoughts, I still felt extreme loneliness, frustration and anger whilst I was putting up the gazebo and doing all the preparing for the bbq. I occasionally felt lonely during the bbq when all my friends were around me, knowing they would all have to leave – but I still chose to do all of these things, despite how I felt, and despite all my thoughts. What defusion enabled me to do, was give me the space to choose to ACT rather than give up and NOT ACT.

I think it would be helpful to:

· Explore values: Is independence really a value? What will independence give this person? What is independence in the service of? Also, what will a feeling of connection give you? What is this in the service of?

· Keep in mind that ‘defusion from thoughts’ is different from ‘willingness to experience feelings’ If we are defusing from thoughts in order to not feel certain things, then the defusion won’t work.

Sorry for such a long post – and hope this is helpful.

Tas

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of hbbrSent: 16 July 2011 16:01To: ACT for the PublicSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

I should add that the person in the example is not living according to her value of independence IF she is physically capable of doing her own shopping and going places, but is just lazy. If she is not able to do these things herself, that is a different story, and one in which acceptance is key. If being as independent as she can be is a value, that should be pursued on its own merit, AND it may bring about less loneliness as a side effect, but it might not; to expect a particular outcome leaves no room for acceptance of what is and what will be.

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:48:08 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"

Yes, your example is perfectly clear but it is not what I thought you meant in your first post. Do you actually know anybody like that? The person in this example, who is lazy and relies on her friends to do her shopping and take her places, is clearly not living according to her values if one of her values is to be independent.

If you want more independence in your life so that it will take away your loneliness, then it won't work because you will get caught up in the struggle of wanting something to be different than it is. The 'right' reason to work for more independence in your life would be to engage in actions that honor your value of being independent without expecting it to reduce your lonliness. But also, if you value emotional connections with people, along with independence, then you would do everything you can to nurture connections with others. If your situation limits you in this endeavor, acceptance is key along with defusion of the thoughts "nobody likes me or wants to be with me," etc.

Hope that is helpful.

Helena

From: "cyberfriend" <cyberfriendoptusnet.au>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 10:01:20 AMSubject: Re: What Dr Russ said about "disconnection"Thanks everyone for your replies .... it's really appreciated.I gave this example .......> Is it possible to even "prevent" the problem by trying to become more "emotionally > independent" ......... ie. try to do something (xyz) so that I don't even notice the > disconnection .......>> um.... so by becoming more 'independent' i'm not feeling the loneliness that comes with > little contact with friends.I can't explain it properly, so I'll give an analogy a try .......Just say you're a person who is really physically dependent on people because you're too lazy to do things yourself or to think for yourself. So your flatmate does this shopping. You have friends that drive you to the social occasions ..... you don't get dressed before going out to socials until your friernds tell you what you should wear. Know what I mean?Then just imagine what would happen in your friends took a dislike to you or your flatmate was sick of doing your shopping. You'd have nobody to shop for you, to drive you places, to tell you what to buy and wear etc. So you really miss these things ..... you use the diffusion technique when the thoughts come to you.But the difference is that this person should 'wake up' and realise that rather than "diffuse" these thoughts she should actually do something to fix the situation up so that she won't get the thoughts ..... she could get up off-her lounge and do her own shopping, she could drive herself out to social occasions, she should be old an independent enough to make her own decisions about what she should buy and wear ......... so by realising this - that she should actually be more independent and less reliant on others - she's on her way to fixing the problem so that it won't come up too often .....Can you see what I'm trying to say? I hope so as it's really hard to explain it .......Can someone please confirm whether you've been able to understand what I mean? Just so I'm not left wondering!And thanks everyone for your previous replies .......iolanda-- Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe