Re: Re: Mindfulness

[Guest guest]

The acceptance and mindfulness path is a commitment to yourself.It is a commitment to self-kindnessWhen you say:The upshot being, that experience

was a kind of nadir I didn't (and don't) want to re-experience; my

everyday misery seems preferable to that.realize that what you are trying to run from is your own history and your own experience.We know why -- the pain tells you why. But there there is that commitment to yourself;

then there is that commitment to self-kindness.Once you see avoidance, you can never go fully back.Avoidance was always an illusion. You were avoiding awareness of it -- but not the impact, not the event. In other words,

you were never really avoiding -- anymore thana person is successfully avoiding cancer if there is a band aid on a tumor so it can't be seen.But once you SEE it, life has changed. You have a chance for a better life.

Because now the illusion is out there for you to seeIt would be like putting aa band aid on a tumor so it can't be seen, knowing full well what is under it.If you did that, every single time you see the band aid, what would you think about?

There is not enough booze in the world to avoid into total lack of awareness once the illusion of avoidance is taken down.So now you know what was under the band aid of mindlessness. Hallaleuhah.It hurts -- and yet it gives you a chance. Booze will not return you to mindlessness.

Not fully. Only temporarily and at a cost.HOWEVERyou are not a dog to be whipped or a cow to be prodded.If you have really, really painful work to do, you can do it slowly;in bits; in areas that you are ready to do. Let the pace and

process be set by you. Reach out to other. Trust your instincts. After all you opened thatbook for a reason. You are on this list for a reason. You put down the pillsfor a reason. You made this post for a reason. If it was all as you are writing about it now

it was as if to torture yourself; overwhelm yourself; paralyze yourselfBullThe acceptance and mindfulness path is a commitment to yourself.

It is a commitment to self-kindness.My guess: that is the very thing you've been yearning for.My guess: That is the very thing that the thread you sawsomehow took away.Look. Is it?

If so, take something smaller that is linked to the thread you saw. Write it in your suffering inventory.Start.If your mind tries to throw you immediately in the deep end of the pool, respectfullydecline the invitation. Do it in your own way -- a kind way. At the pace that

works for you. Bit by bit.Your are not broken; you don't need to be fixed.The point is to get out of your own way enough thatyou can evolve and grow ... It is as if you were in a mountain range and there were hills of various sizes.

You wanted to go up, but you climbed the hill called experiential avoidance. You reach the top quickly ... but can see little from there.It is lonely up there. Cold. Alienating. Deadening. You can see wonderful hills ahead with grand vistas.

And there are people climbing those hills. And wonderful things to do on the way up. But you can't climb thosehigher hills without climbing down this one. And that is what you've been doing.I'd bet a thousand dollars that is why you bought that book. But it does mean walking down into some painful muck

on the way toward hills you actually value.It's OK. The hurt there is a storm that will come and goand meanwhile -- woo hoo -- you will start climbing those other hills thatyour values and yearnings will take you to. In fact you already have started.

Your are not broken; you don't need to be fixed.

The point is to get out of your own way enough that

you can evolve and grow ... and consider the possibility that is exactly what is happening right now.You want to wake up ... what if that was what you are doing?Of course, I get it. Your mind says " run back up the experiential avoidance hill!  Now!

It is cold and lonely and alienating but at least you didn't have THAT. " But you DID have that. You had it all along. Deep down you probablyeven knew it but for sure it was impacting you even if your band aid was so elegantly

placed you had no idea it was covering anything.This organ between your ears will even claim that going to sleep and never waking up ispreferable to standing with yourself, being committed to yourself, and treating yourself in a kind way.

What gall. Just because it sees no where else to go doesn't mean this is the end.It's just a freakin tool. Its not you.If you have really, really painful work to do, well keep the faith in you. You can

can do it slowly; you can do it in bits; you can do it in areas that you are ready to start with. Let the pace and

process be set by you. Reach out to others. Trust your instincts. Glance and those other hills and see if you can find that path toward them that is a commitment to yourselfand a commitment to self-kindness. It will not take long to be on that hill since that is the path that goes up them.

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind

Huffington Post  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: 

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes

or you can try my website (it is semi-functional) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at website of the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science (ACBS): www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost if up to your own values.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

 

You may as well have written that for me, Randy.I've started to try to work with Get Out of Your Mind, and have had trouble just getting past the part where one writes one's " Suffering Inventory " . I wrote the first thing that came to mind and " lost it " -- deep, wracking sobbing at the realization that what I'd written represented a thread that has run through my entire life.

The upshot being, that experience was a kind of nadir I didn't (and don't) want to re-experience; my everyday misery seems preferable to that. But regardless of what I may prefer, that experience has opened some can of worms I'm having trouble putting a lid on. I'm a nervous wreck, chain-smoking and resorting to alcohol; the low-dose Valium the doctor prescribed seem useless, so I've stopped taking them. Yet even the booze has little effect in stopping the incessant pain in my head. At this point counting breaths only leads me to a kind of hyperventilating. The result being a feeling of light-headedness that vanishes within minutes of my stopping.

I'm wishing I could go to sleep and either not wake up, or wake up in a different place.Michieux

>> Bruce, > > Here's what I think is going on: when you say you are " always > mindful of my anxiety and depression, " what this suggests > to me is that what you are really " mindful " of, in the sense

> that you are noticing it and buying into it, is your ongoing > evaluation of uncomfortable thoughts and emotions as being > not only uncomfortable, but " bad. " And there are probably > all sorts of other judgments wrapped up in there that you are

> not necessarily explicitly aware of, but that are likewise > evaluations. > > In other words, feeling uncomfortable is " always on your mind " > in the sense that you are very aware that you feel uncomfortable,

> and you are totally bonding with this sense of " it's bad. " You > are stuck in the judging / evaluating frame of mind that we > all are capable of and that, absent learning any new skills,

> we continue to trust as somehow representing what is " real " > and " important. " > > That's not what is meant by mindfulness. But I have the feeling > that being told about mindfulness directly will not be very

> helpful for you. You have probably read about it, either in > books or on this list, a zillion times already. Whatever I > write here is going to go straight to that judging/evaluating > mechanism that you have entrusted with your life, and it is

> going to get judged and evaluated all over again. > > Over and over and over. Round and round and round. > > I know what it's like. Believe me. I get on that little > gerbil wheel made of evaluations a LOT. I was on it yesterday

> and early today till I remembered (again) that my experience > is my experience, nothing more or less. > > Here's what I would suggest: If you haven't already, start > a meditation practice centered around something like watching

> your breath, or counting from 1 to 10 with your breath, etc. > You can find good instructions in a basic Zen or Vispanna book, > or in " Get Out of Your Mind " for that matter. I would do it

> for about 10 minutes a day at first, and I would keep at it > for several weeks at a minimum. > > Try and do it not to " get rid of those uncomfortable thoughts > and feelings " or to " get it right " or anything like that. The

> instructions for counting your breath, for example, are just > to count from 1 to 10 with each inhale - 1 on the first inhale, > 2 on the first exhale, on up to 10, and then start over. Keep > your eyes open if you like. If a thought shows up, let it -

> don't follow after it and don't push it away either; just let > it show up, and then return your attention to the next breath > and the next number. If you find you have gotten sucked into > following a thought, no problem: once you notice this, gently

> place your attention back on your breath and the count. > > The idea is that by having a neutral focus that you can put > your attention on, and by making that what you are " doing, "

> you can start experiencing other stuff as it comes and goes > without needing to follow it. You have something else to follow > instead of your evaluations: the count and the breath. Out of > that may slowly emerge a different experience. Let whatever

> emerges do so, without any expectations. And if you find you > have an expectation, that's OK too - expectations are also > thoughts, and so you can let the thought of an expectation > come as it is and then return your attention gently to the

> count and the breath. > > Over and over and over. But this is a different " over and > over " than getting trapped in your evaluations and thinking > that those evaluations represent " mindfulness. " This over

> and over is learning something new. > > I really suggest you do this for a few weeks, or something > like it. Your habitual thoughts may say it's a waste of time > and that you already know what will happen. You can put those

> sorts of thoughts in charge if you like. I often put all kinds > of thoughts in charge of my life until eventually I notice > that's what I'm doing and return control to myself. > > If you do mindfulness meditation for a few weeks - or even

> for a week - let us know what happens. Or if you have already > tried a meditation practice and your experience wasn't > successful, let us know that too and maybe someone will have > a suggestion about how to try again with more success.

> > Good luck, > Randy>

[Guest guest]

You may feel like a fraud, but you are not one.

Something is keeping you engaged in this list. Something is drawing you in, whispering in your ear, that ACT may be worthwhile to pursue.

When you are feeling your finest (e.g., in the morning, if you are a morning person like I am), read 's words again. Let them sink in, slowly but surely. Look at what he is saying and know he speaks the truth, from his heart and from experience. Eventually, you will get it. Whether or not you choose to translate that into action - whether or not you will find the strength to go down that mountain of avoidance and then find another mountain to climb that will open a whole new world to you - is up to you.

I know you have the guts and the intellect to do it. Will you go for it? I am cheering you on.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 4:44:37 PMSubject: Re: Mindfulness

I feel like such an utter fraud.I want to die. But not like this (looking at Wikipedia "best suicide method").I want to live, but not like this.It's a win for the least text. I can hardly compute what you wrote. But the wiki page is fucking worse when what I want is fucking simple.For now I trust you because somewhere, sometime you wrote something that gave me a little bit of hope.It's not your fault.Thanks.> > >> > > Bruce,> > >> > > Here's what I think is going on: when you say you are "always> > > mindful of my anxiety and depression," what this suggests> > > to me is that what you are really "mindful" of, in the sense> > > that you are noticing it and buying into it, is your ongoing> > > evaluation of uncomfortable thoughts and emotions as being> > > not only uncomfortable, but "bad." And there are probably> > > all sorts of other judgments wrapped up in there that you are> > > not necessarily explicitly aware of, but that are likewise> > > evaluations.> > >> > > In other words, feeling uncomfortable is "always on your mind"> > > in the sense that you are very aware that you feel uncomfortable,> > > and you are totally bonding with this sense of "it's bad." You> > > are stuck in the judging / evaluating frame of mind that we> > > all are capable of and that, absent learning any new skills,> > > we continue to trust as somehow representing what is "real"> > > and "important."> > >> > > That's not what is meant by mindfulness. But I have the feeling> > > that being told about mindfulness directly will not be very> > > helpful for you. You have probably read about it, either in> > > books or on this list, a zillion times already. Whatever I> > > write here is going to go straight to that judging/evaluating> > > mechanism that you have entrusted with your life, and it is> > > going to get judged and evaluated all over again.> > >> > > Over and over and over. Round and round and round.> > >> > > I know what it's like. Believe me. I get on that little> > > gerbil wheel made of evaluations a LOT. I was on it yesterday> > > and early today till I remembered (again) that my experience> > > is my experience, nothing more or less.> > >> > > Here's what I would suggest: If you haven't already, start> > > a meditation practice centered around something like watching> > > your breath, or counting from 1 to 10 with your breath, etc.> > > You can find good instructions in a basic Zen or Vispanna book,> > > or in "Get Out of Your Mind" for that matter. I would do it> > > for about 10 minutes a day at first, and I would keep at it> > > for several weeks at a minimum.> > >> > > Try and do it not to "get rid of those uncomfortable thoughts> > > and feelings" or to "get it right" or anything like that. The> > > instructions for counting your breath, for example, are just> > > to count from 1 to 10 with each inhale - 1 on the first inhale,> > > 2 on the first exhale, on up to 10, and then start over. Keep> > > your eyes open if you like. If a thought shows up, let it -> > > don't follow after it and don't push it away either; just let> > > it show up, and then return your attention to the next breath> > > and the next number. If you find you have gotten sucked into> > > following a thought, no problem: once you notice this, gently> > > place your attention back on your breath and the count.> > >> > > The idea is that by having a neutral focus that you can put> > > your attention on, and by making that what you are "doing,"> > > you can start experiencing other stuff as it comes and goes> > > without needing to follow it. You have something else to follow> > > instead of your evaluations: the count and the breath. Out of> > > that may slowly emerge a different experience. Let whatever> > > emerges do so, without any expectations. And if you find you> > > have an expectation, that's OK too - expectations are also> > > thoughts, and so you can let the thought of an expectation> > > come as it is and then return your attention gently to the> > > count and the breath.> > >> > > Over and over and over. But this is a different "over and> > > over" than getting trapped in your evaluations and thinking> > > that those evaluations represent "mindfulness." This over> > > and over is learning something new.> > >> > > I really suggest you do this for a few weeks, or something> > > like it. Your habitual thoughts may say it's a waste of time> > > and that you already know what will happen. You can put those> > > sorts of thoughts in charge if you like. I often put all kinds> > > of thoughts in charge of my life until eventually I notice> > > that's what I'm doing and return control to myself.> > >> > > If you do mindfulness meditation for a few weeks - or even> > > for a week - let us know what happens. Or if you have already> > > tried a meditation practice and your experience wasn't> > > successful, let us know that too and maybe someone will have> > > a suggestion about how to try again with more success.> > >> > > Good luck,> > > Randy> > >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

, this is truly lovely. Thank you for taking the time to write it. I too am making my way through "Get Out of Your Mind..." now and this is very much helping to lead me on.With a big grin -- My best to you and all,Ran

You may as well have written that for me, Randy.I've started to try to work with Get Out of Your Mind, and have had trouble just getting past the part where one writes one's "Suffering Inventory". I wrote the first thing that came to mind and "lost it" -- deep, wracking sobbing at the realization that what I'd written represented a thread that has run through my entire life.

The upshot being, that experience was a kind of nadir I didn't (and don't) want to re-experience; my everyday misery seems preferable to that. But regardless of what I may prefer, that experience has opened some can of worms I'm having trouble putting a lid on. I'm a nervous wreck, chain-smoking and resorting to alcohol; the low-dose Valium the doctor prescribed seem useless, so I've stopped taking them. Yet even the booze has little effect in stopping the incessant pain in my head. At this point counting breaths only leads me to a kind of hyperventilating. The result being a feeling of light-headedness that vanishes within minutes of my stopping.

I'm wishing I could go to sleep and either not wake up, or wake up in a different place.Michieux

>> Bruce, > > Here's what I think is going on: when you say you are "always > mindful of my anxiety and depression," what this suggests > to me is that what you are really "mindful" of, in the sense

> that you are noticing it and buying into it, is your ongoing > evaluation of uncomfortable thoughts and emotions as being > not only uncomfortable, but "bad." And there are probably > all sorts of other judgments wrapped up in there that you are

> not necessarily explicitly aware of, but that are likewise > evaluations. > > In other words, feeling uncomfortable is "always on your mind" > in the sense that you are very aware that you feel uncomfortable,

> and you are totally bonding with this sense of "it's bad." You > are stuck in the judging / evaluating frame of mind that we > all are capable of and that, absent learning any new skills,

> we continue to trust as somehow representing what is "real" > and "important." > > That's not what is meant by mindfulness. But I have the feeling > that being told about mindfulness directly will not be very

> helpful for you. You have probably read about it, either in > books or on this list, a zillion times already. Whatever I > write here is going to go straight to that judging/evaluating > mechanism that you have entrusted with your life, and it is

> going to get judged and evaluated all over again. > > Over and over and over. Round and round and round. > > I know what it's like. Believe me. I get on that little > gerbil wheel made of evaluations a LOT. I was on it yesterday

> and early today till I remembered (again) that my experience > is my experience, nothing more or less. > > Here's what I would suggest: If you haven't already, start > a meditation practice centered around something like watching

> your breath, or counting from 1 to 10 with your breath, etc. > You can find good instructions in a basic Zen or Vispanna book, > or in "Get Out of Your Mind" for that matter. I would do it

> for about 10 minutes a day at first, and I would keep at it > for several weeks at a minimum. > > Try and do it not to "get rid of those uncomfortable thoughts > and feelings" or to "get it right" or anything like that. The

> instructions for counting your breath, for example, are just > to count from 1 to 10 with each inhale - 1 on the first inhale, > 2 on the first exhale, on up to 10, and then start over. Keep > your eyes open if you like. If a thought shows up, let it -

> don't follow after it and don't push it away either; just let > it show up, and then return your attention to the next breath > and the next number. If you find you have gotten sucked into > following a thought, no problem: once you notice this, gently

> place your attention back on your breath and the count. > > The idea is that by having a neutral focus that you can put > your attention on, and by making that what you are "doing,"

> you can start experiencing other stuff as it comes and goes > without needing to follow it. You have something else to follow > instead of your evaluations: the count and the breath. Out of > that may slowly emerge a different experience. Let whatever

> emerges do so, without any expectations. And if you find you > have an expectation, that's OK too - expectations are also > thoughts, and so you can let the thought of an expectation > come as it is and then return your attention gently to the

> count and the breath. > > Over and over and over. But this is a different "over and > over" than getting trapped in your evaluations and thinking > that those evaluations represent "mindfulness." This over

> and over is learning something new. > > I really suggest you do this for a few weeks, or something > like it. Your habitual thoughts may say it's a waste of time > and that you already know what will happen. You can put those

> sorts of thoughts in charge if you like. I often put all kinds > of thoughts in charge of my life until eventually I notice > that's what I'm doing and return control to myself. > > If you do mindfulness meditation for a few weeks - or even

> for a week - let us know what happens. Or if you have already > tried a meditation practice and your experience wasn't > successful, let us know that too and maybe someone will have > a suggestion about how to try again with more success.

> > Good luck, > Randy>