Re: How I reduced my extreme sadness .......

[Guest guest]

I see no conflict b/t ACT principles and the way you have worked through this

issue. You are honestly reflecting on things. In that honest reflection you

came to a realization that brought you peace of mind. The process has been

productive and helpful. What is the problem?

ACT is not " anti-thought. " If it were, it would be a recipe for trouble,

because thinking is extremely important for human existence. If I had to

perpetually defuse from every thought I ever had, then how would I ever gain any

traction on the world? I wouldn't be able to do anything, because my thoughts

wouldn't ever go anywhere (they would continually slip away as I defuse and

defuse and defuse).

ACT's valuable contribution is to ask us to step back and look at our various

thought processes so that we can see when they are helpful and when they are not

helpful, so that we can expend our mental energy accordingly.

So, for example, you have this " a ha " moment, and that is great, you keep going

in that direction and let it provide you with a sense of insight and

understanding.

But when your thinking doesn't lead to an " a ha " moment, but instead leads to a

frustrating, unpleasant cycle of back and forth, where you get nowhere, then ACT

provides the tools to help you break out of that and move on.

The Buddha offered a similar recommendation, which is that you should treat

thought as a slave rather than a master. Use it where it adds value for you,

defuse it where it doesn't (to borrow an ACT term).

>

> I'll give a personal example of what I did to reduce the extreme sadness I was

> experiencing ....... so much so that I rarely have to use defusion for these

issues that

> were a BIG thought on my mind more than a decade ago.

>

> During the first year of my cancer/ neurological disease diagnosis we didn't

know why I

> wasn't menstruating ..... and I soon found out I was infertile. It was one of

the reasons

> that my ex and I broke up.

>

> Anyway, I was soon grieving for the loss - even though I wasn't in a

relationship I was

> still upset for what I wouldn't ever have. Very upset. and I was noticing

all the kids

> everywhere ..... on TV, in the shopping centres/malls, the kids my friends

were having

> .......

>

> This came at the same time that I broke up with my ex and so I was grieving

that as well etc.

>

> (Now I don't remember much of the timing of all of this because of my memory

> loss............. but here is the general gist of it )

>

> But in an effort to try to help myself psychologically I was thinking and

researching it

> all ....... the medical journals, statistic internet sites ..... lots of

things.

>

> What I realised - and that I don't think I knew before then - is that there is

a large

> movement of " childfree " people ........ people that don't want kids. And I

realised that

> there are many reasons why it's GOOD not to have kids .... and I actually

understood them.

> I wasn't just reading them but I could agree with them.

>

> And I also did a lot of research on relationships (again, in very reputable

sites) and

> found some very interesting and important information. Things like

>

> - In 2000 (when I did the research) in Australia 28% of men and 23% of women

won't ever

> marry. Those that marry - the average length of a marriage is 11 years. Then

46% of

> marriages end in divorce. And in the US, of the 86% that remarry - 75% of

them will

> divorce again!!! Other stats included the fact that 28% of women my age

won't ever have

> kids - of which 20% is voluntary (choice).

> - A while later I found out that when someone in a marriage is diagnosed with

chronic

> pain or a chronic illness (sorry - don't remember precisely) 85% of the

marriages fail

> after the diagnosis. I was in fact almost one of those statistics since I'd

broken up

> with my ex.

> - Females are 6 times more likely to get divorced (than males) after a brain

tumour

>

> Anyway, I grew to realise that my I'd be the happiest if I WASN'T married

........ it was

> only the fact that society says that you grow up and get married that made me

expect that

> it was for everyone. But why did that have to mean that it was right for me?

It wasn't

> right for me and there were many other women that thought the same way as me.

>

> So for at least 10 years I've been happily " singal " (aka single). Sure there

are times

> when I get " reminders " of what I won't have that upset me, but they are just

short

> reminders and are totally unrealistic (eg. when a soppy love song comes on the

radio).

> And I'm 10000% sure that I would feel even better about it if I had more

friends (ie.

> wasn't so lonely)

>

> I've even created an online community of happily unmarried women and it's good

to share

> thoughts et al.

>

> SOOOO ....... what I'm saying is that I've tackled this problem by NOT just

" defusing " the

> thought. All those years ago I could have " defused " it and had to live with

the constant

> " reminders " of what I didn't have. But I chose to try to work on the thought

and realised

> that it was wrong in the first place.

>

>

> Can you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that all those years ago the

thoughts were

> coming in my head like .......

>

> " I don't have a husband like all of those women in my street " and felt upset

......

>

> and IF I'd used defusion I would still be having the thoughts that require the

defusion.

>

>

> Know what I mean?

>

> Hope so ..... if something doesn't make sense then let me know .......

>

> I'll send another example to show how " thinking about things " and becoming

passionate

> about something can add " life " to your life.

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

> I see no conflict b/t ACT principles and the way you have worked through this

issue. You are honestly reflecting on things. In that honest reflection you

came to a realization that brought you peace of mind. The process has been

productive and helpful. What is the problem?

There's no " problem " - I was using this as an example for what I'm looking for

for my

loneliness ......... using the same reflection, statistics, real-life behaviour

etc of

people ........ can I try to find something to reduce the effect that the

loneliness gives me?

eg. if I found 1,000 studies that said that 99.9999% of people were lonely at

least nights

a week, well that would get me researching definitions, realising that I'm the

same as

everone else ........ and then my deflection would be a different word that

would have a

much better effect on my feelings.

eg. if the above were true then when I got the feeling that I'm lonely, I'd just

think to

myself /defuse " Just like 99% of the population " and then go on to something i

value etc.

Know what I mean?

So I'm looking for tips and ideas as to how I can deal with the new issue just

like I've

dealt with the 2 in the past .....

Hope this makes sense ........

iolanda

--

Marriage is a great institution – but I don’t want to live in an institution ;-)

[Guest guest]

That's great Iolanda...goes to show, that it isn't what happens, but your

beliefs about what happened which causes you suffering..

If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and you're

not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting What

Is

Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

>

> I'll give a personal example of what I did to reduce the extreme sadness I was

> experiencing ....... so much so that I rarely have to use defusion for these

issues that

> were a BIG thought on my mind more than a decade ago.

>

> During the first year of my cancer/ neurological disease diagnosis we didn't

know why I

> wasn't menstruating ..... and I soon found out I was infertile. It was one of

the reasons

> that my ex and I broke up.

>

> Anyway, I was soon grieving for the loss - even though I wasn't in a

relationship I was

> still upset for what I wouldn't ever have. Very upset. and I was noticing

all the kids

> everywhere ..... on TV, in the shopping centres/malls, the kids my friends

were having

> .......

>

> This came at the same time that I broke up with my ex and so I was grieving

that as well etc.

>

> (Now I don't remember much of the timing of all of this because of my memory

> loss............. but here is the general gist of it )

>

> But in an effort to try to help myself psychologically I was thinking and

researching it

> all ....... the medical journals, statistic internet sites ..... lots of

things.

>

> What I realised - and that I don't think I knew before then - is that there is

a large

> movement of " childfree " people ........ people that don't want kids. And I

realised that

> there are many reasons why it's GOOD not to have kids .... and I actually

understood them.

> I wasn't just reading them but I could agree with them.

>

> And I also did a lot of research on relationships (again, in very reputable

sites) and

> found some very interesting and important information. Things like

>

> - In 2000 (when I did the research) in Australia 28% of men and 23% of women

won't ever

> marry. Those that marry - the average length of a marriage is 11 years. Then

46% of

> marriages end in divorce. And in the US, of the 86% that remarry - 75% of

them will

> divorce again!!! Other stats included the fact that 28% of women my age

won't ever have

> kids - of which 20% is voluntary (choice).

> - A while later I found out that when someone in a marriage is diagnosed with

chronic

> pain or a chronic illness (sorry - don't remember precisely) 85% of the

marriages fail

> after the diagnosis. I was in fact almost one of those statistics since I'd

broken up

> with my ex.

> - Females are 6 times more likely to get divorced (than males) after a brain

tumour

>

> Anyway, I grew to realise that my I'd be the happiest if I WASN'T married

........ it was

> only the fact that society says that you grow up and get married that made me

expect that

> it was for everyone. But why did that have to mean that it was right for me?

It wasn't

> right for me and there were many other women that thought the same way as me.

>

> So for at least 10 years I've been happily " singal " (aka single). Sure there

are times

> when I get " reminders " of what I won't have that upset me, but they are just

short

> reminders and are totally unrealistic (eg. when a soppy love song comes on the

radio).

> And I'm 10000% sure that I would feel even better about it if I had more

friends (ie.

> wasn't so lonely)

>

> I've even created an online community of happily unmarried women and it's good

to share

> thoughts et al.

>

> SOOOO ....... what I'm saying is that I've tackled this problem by NOT just

" defusing " the

> thought. All those years ago I could have " defused " it and had to live with

the constant

> " reminders " of what I didn't have. But I chose to try to work on the thought

and realised

> that it was wrong in the first place.

>

>

> Can you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that all those years ago the

thoughts were

> coming in my head like .......

>

> " I don't have a husband like all of those women in my street " and felt upset

......

>

> and IF I'd used defusion I would still be having the thoughts that require the

defusion.

>

>

> Know what I mean?

>

> Hope so ..... if something doesn't make sense then let me know .......

>

> I'll send another example to show how " thinking about things " and becoming

passionate

> about something can add " life " to your life.

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

That's great Iolanda...goes to show, that it isn't what happens, but your

beliefs about what happened which causes you suffering..

If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and you're

not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting What

Is

Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

>

> I'll give a personal example of what I did to reduce the extreme sadness I was

> experiencing ....... so much so that I rarely have to use defusion for these

issues that

> were a BIG thought on my mind more than a decade ago.

>

> During the first year of my cancer/ neurological disease diagnosis we didn't

know why I

> wasn't menstruating ..... and I soon found out I was infertile. It was one of

the reasons

> that my ex and I broke up.

>

> Anyway, I was soon grieving for the loss - even though I wasn't in a

relationship I was

> still upset for what I wouldn't ever have. Very upset. and I was noticing

all the kids

> everywhere ..... on TV, in the shopping centres/malls, the kids my friends

were having

> .......

>

> This came at the same time that I broke up with my ex and so I was grieving

that as well etc.

>

> (Now I don't remember much of the timing of all of this because of my memory

> loss............. but here is the general gist of it )

>

> But in an effort to try to help myself psychologically I was thinking and

researching it

> all ....... the medical journals, statistic internet sites ..... lots of

things.

>

> What I realised - and that I don't think I knew before then - is that there is

a large

> movement of " childfree " people ........ people that don't want kids. And I

realised that

> there are many reasons why it's GOOD not to have kids .... and I actually

understood them.

> I wasn't just reading them but I could agree with them.

>

> And I also did a lot of research on relationships (again, in very reputable

sites) and

> found some very interesting and important information. Things like

>

> - In 2000 (when I did the research) in Australia 28% of men and 23% of women

won't ever

> marry. Those that marry - the average length of a marriage is 11 years. Then

46% of

> marriages end in divorce. And in the US, of the 86% that remarry - 75% of

them will

> divorce again!!! Other stats included the fact that 28% of women my age

won't ever have

> kids - of which 20% is voluntary (choice).

> - A while later I found out that when someone in a marriage is diagnosed with

chronic

> pain or a chronic illness (sorry - don't remember precisely) 85% of the

marriages fail

> after the diagnosis. I was in fact almost one of those statistics since I'd

broken up

> with my ex.

> - Females are 6 times more likely to get divorced (than males) after a brain

tumour

>

> Anyway, I grew to realise that my I'd be the happiest if I WASN'T married

........ it was

> only the fact that society says that you grow up and get married that made me

expect that

> it was for everyone. But why did that have to mean that it was right for me?

It wasn't

> right for me and there were many other women that thought the same way as me.

>

> So for at least 10 years I've been happily " singal " (aka single). Sure there

are times

> when I get " reminders " of what I won't have that upset me, but they are just

short

> reminders and are totally unrealistic (eg. when a soppy love song comes on the

radio).

> And I'm 10000% sure that I would feel even better about it if I had more

friends (ie.

> wasn't so lonely)

>

> I've even created an online community of happily unmarried women and it's good

to share

> thoughts et al.

>

> SOOOO ....... what I'm saying is that I've tackled this problem by NOT just

" defusing " the

> thought. All those years ago I could have " defused " it and had to live with

the constant

> " reminders " of what I didn't have. But I chose to try to work on the thought

and realised

> that it was wrong in the first place.

>

>

> Can you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that all those years ago the

thoughts were

> coming in my head like .......

>

> " I don't have a husband like all of those women in my street " and felt upset

......

>

> and IF I'd used defusion I would still be having the thoughts that require the

defusion.

>

>

> Know what I mean?

>

> Hope so ..... if something doesn't make sense then let me know .......

>

> I'll send another example to show how " thinking about things " and becoming

passionate

> about something can add " life " to your life.

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

> That's great Iolanda...goes to show, that it isn't what happens, but your

beliefs about what happened which causes you suffering..

>

> If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

>

> Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

But I'd like to ask another question - how does questioning your beliefs (like

I'd done,

and like Byron does) fit in with ACT ....... I thought that with ACT

you've got the

thoughts and you just " defuse " them. I didn't think you were supposed to think

through

them .... to question them etc. I thought ACT just said to switch off your

struggle

switch etc. So if I'd done this all those years ago I'd still be having the

thoughts

flash through my mind very very regularly .........

I'm probably wrong in the above so can someone tell me how i'm wrong?

Or tell me if I'm right in my conclusions above? If so, then ACT shouldn't be

the first

thing you do in any situation - you have to question what's required first.

Thanks VERY much

iolanda

[Guest guest]

> That's great Iolanda...goes to show, that it isn't what happens, but your

beliefs about what happened which causes you suffering..

>

> If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

>

> Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

But I'd like to ask another question - how does questioning your beliefs (like

I'd done,

and like Byron does) fit in with ACT ....... I thought that with ACT

you've got the

thoughts and you just " defuse " them. I didn't think you were supposed to think

through

them .... to question them etc. I thought ACT just said to switch off your

struggle

switch etc. So if I'd done this all those years ago I'd still be having the

thoughts

flash through my mind very very regularly .........

I'm probably wrong in the above so can someone tell me how i'm wrong?

Or tell me if I'm right in my conclusions above? If so, then ACT shouldn't be

the first

thing you do in any situation - you have to question what's required first.

Thanks VERY much

iolanda

[Guest guest]

>

> I thought that with ACT you've got the thoughts and you just

> " defuse " them. I didn't think you were supposed to think through

> them .... to question them etc. I thought ACT just said to switch

> off your struggle switch etc.

This actually strikes me as a very cool question. For me, it gets

at the heart of what defusion is versus what it isn't.

Say that fusion means being " stuck " with taking certain thoughts

literally, i.e. " I must be married to be happy " might be such a

thought. Or in my case, maybe something like " Because I haven't

published a novel yet, I am a failure as a writer. "

So if that's what fusing is, then what's defusing? To me defusing

does not mean questioning such thoughts, disputing them,

redefining them, etc. It only means getting just enough distance

to see that even when a thought says it is " about " something,

what we are actually experiencing is the thought, not the " about "

part.

And if I succeed in defusing, what I will experience is going to

feel more like an unlocking or a lightning of my load than an

argument with a thought.

So to me, defusing aids effective questioning of thoughts that

aren't working for me - not by a direct attack on such thoughts,

but by loosening up my capacity to learn from all sorts of

things, including my own experience.

- R

[Guest guest]

>

> I thought that with ACT you've got the thoughts and you just

> " defuse " them. I didn't think you were supposed to think through

> them .... to question them etc. I thought ACT just said to switch

> off your struggle switch etc.

This actually strikes me as a very cool question. For me, it gets

at the heart of what defusion is versus what it isn't.

Say that fusion means being " stuck " with taking certain thoughts

literally, i.e. " I must be married to be happy " might be such a

thought. Or in my case, maybe something like " Because I haven't

published a novel yet, I am a failure as a writer. "

So if that's what fusing is, then what's defusing? To me defusing

does not mean questioning such thoughts, disputing them,

redefining them, etc. It only means getting just enough distance

to see that even when a thought says it is " about " something,

what we are actually experiencing is the thought, not the " about "

part.

And if I succeed in defusing, what I will experience is going to

feel more like an unlocking or a lightning of my load than an

argument with a thought.

So to me, defusing aids effective questioning of thoughts that

aren't working for me - not by a direct attack on such thoughts,

but by loosening up my capacity to learn from all sorts of

things, including my own experience.

- R

[Guest guest]

This statement hits home.

> If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

>

> Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

But ok, My should is I should have loved ones I can love and be loved. Ones that

I can count on and have fun with. Share the good and bad in the world with.

>

>

> I cant rationlize myself out of the wanting of that. I would love to hear your

ideas but please dont say I shouldnt want that becuase everybody wants someone.

I will put Byron s won my reading list.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This statement hits home.

> If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

>

> Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

But ok, My should is I should have loved ones I can love and be loved. Ones that

I can count on and have fun with. Share the good and bad in the world with.

>

>

> I cant rationlize myself out of the wanting of that. I would love to hear your

ideas but please dont say I shouldnt want that becuase everybody wants someone.

I will put Byron s won my reading list.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's OK to want to give and receive love. It is so critical to being human that it falls into an entirely different category than believing you should be married, which is truly optional. But you can want love without making it a should. If "loving and being loved' is one of your values (and don't forget loving yourself as part of that), taking action toward being loving and being lovable is a better way to frame it than thinking you SHOULD have it. Love isn't something outside yourself that you simply must have; it is something that you do. If you believe that love is lacking in your life, do things to express love - first to yourself, and then to others.

Sounds so good, I think I'll try it! Funny how I learn things I can use even when I'm answering somebody else's question.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:55:34 AMSubject: Re: How I reduced my extreme sadness .......

This statement hits home. > If you believe you "should" be married, or with someone romantically, and you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting What Is> > Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...But ok, My should is I should have loved ones I can love and be loved. Ones that I can count on and have fun with. Share the good and bad in the world with.> > > I cant rationlize myself out of the wanting of that. I would love to hear your ideas but please dont say I shouldnt want that becuase everybody wants someone. I will put Byron s won my reading list.> >

[Guest guest]

I would say that Bryon 's method is diffusion

You aren't resisting, arguing, or fighting the thought, just questioning it's

truth

And in doing that, giving yourself some space to see it more clearly for what it

is...just another thought...in doing that, it lets go of your attention..

Beliefs are just thoughts that we think are attached to and think are true, even

if they are completely wrong

I have had great success with it, and have stated on this message board, that it

would be a shame to never even question these thoughts that we are believing to

be true, when they are so easily refuted with a little bit of questioning...

I would suggest to use it as part of your diffusion tool kit

>

>

> > That's great Iolanda...goes to show, that it isn't what happens, but your

beliefs about what happened which causes you suffering..

> >

> > If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

> >

> > Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

>

> But I'd like to ask another question - how does questioning your beliefs

(like I'd done,

> and like Byron does) fit in with ACT ....... I thought that with ACT

you've got the

> thoughts and you just " defuse " them. I didn't think you were supposed to

think through

> them .... to question them etc. I thought ACT just said to switch off your

struggle

> switch etc. So if I'd done this all those years ago I'd still be having the

thoughts

> flash through my mind very very regularly .........

>

> I'm probably wrong in the above so can someone tell me how i'm wrong?

>

> Or tell me if I'm right in my conclusions above? If so, then ACT shouldn't be

the first

> thing you do in any situation - you have to question what's required first.

>

>

> Thanks VERY much

>

> iolanda

>

[Guest guest]

Helena gave some really good advice

" I can love and be loved " is a statement that I know you will find to be true,

and most likely is currently true if you questioned it

The " should " is the part that can be questioned...the fact of the matter is, as

good as that sounds, it just isn't true in any absolute sense for you

" Should " needs to be erased from the dictionary...You can prefer it, and be open

to it, but thinking you should* have it, or need* it, are just judgments that

aren't based in reality

It would be hard for me to question this without actually knowing your story, so

I do suggest picking up a copy of her book " Loving What Is " , or watching some of

her Youtube videos to get a sense of it first...

But these are questions I would tackle using her method

Can you absolutely know it's true you " should " or would be better off with a

loved one?

How do you feel when you believe the thought that says that you should* have

someone, and you don't?

And without that thought?

I need* someone to share my life with? A biggie

I can't have fun without a loved one?

To question these thoughts doesn't mean that you won't ever have that in your

life, it just means you won't be suffering without it...

And in my experience, the closer you come to peace with What Is, the more your

world opens up....whatever diffusion method you use

>

> This statement hits home.

> > If you believe you " should " be married, or with someone romantically, and

you're not, you are going to experience some suffering because you are resisting

What Is

> >

> > Bryon 's work is great for doing just what you did...

>

>

> But ok, My should is I should have loved ones I can love and be loved. Ones

that I can count on and have fun with. Share the good and bad in the world with.

> >

> >

> > I cant rationlize myself out of the wanting of that. I would love to hear

your ideas but please dont say I shouldnt want that becuase everybody wants

someone. I will put Byron s won my reading list.

> >

> >

>