Re: Avoidance After Acceptance

[Guest guest]

>  

> I've been wondering about the problem/danger of engaging

> in avoidance after acceptance.

Hi O Kisutch,

Nice to see you on the list again!

A really long answer to your interesting question if you're up for

it:

I am in a similar situation, in that I too am going after a couple

of tough domains for me. I'm doing it in combination with some

social exposure exercises (see my recent post to Stan, message

#15433). So the same questions that seem to have occurred to you

have ocurred to me also.

What I mean is, in going after committed action in these domains,

there seems to be a lot of slipping, avoidance, " forgetting, " etc.

involved! It can be days or even a couple of weeks till I remind

myself to re-focus & re-commit. And it often feels just

super-slippery, with no sure way to " know what to do " sometimes.

That said, the overall " how to do it " part seems fairly

straightforward to me. I try to keep these guidelines in mind:

- Self-scolding doesn't work for me. At all. It helps me to remember

that the inner scolding voice is a learned social behavior and can

be disregarded even as it blabs on.

- Since I can't control the outcome (and am working at some stuff

that would be hard outcome-wise for anyone, I think), I focus more

on the process of staying engaged and doing my best, or what I hope

is my best. Scary at times.

- It helps to practice the choice of seeing myself as valid even

when my experience seems horrible or noisy or whatever. Tricky

stuff, I still find. There are times when I can pull it off and

other times when I seem stuck for a while.

- Noticing when my mind is getting caught up in thoughts like the

ones you mention in the first paragraph of your email: " Will I be

worse off than I was before day one? Or no better or no worse off? "

I agree these seem like important things to worry about ... but for

me, that's where it stops. They only SEEM important. Such thoughts

are part of the old agenda.

- Letting myself notice & enjoy more of the good stuff in life when

it happens. My automatic thoughts are all about " don't fall for that

good stuff - you know it will go away - stay uptight so you don't

get fooled! " Another great ha-ha!

As for pitfalls - what is concerning for me, I guess, is when I see

myself getting sucked into a fusion spiral. This used to happen to

me a lot; these days it happens slightly less, but still does on

occasion. Basically, it involves a chain of actions & reactions:

Thinking hard about values > getting depressed about a value being

" impossible " > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a

result.

Another such sequence runs like this:

Take an action in line with a value > something happens that seems

threatening (i.e. I think I'm getting rejected, whether or not I

really am) > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a result,

e.g. judging myself harshly to pre-empt possible harsh judgment by

others. (What a trip!)

Especially with the type of spiral where the first stage is thinking

about values, I seem to be doing a bit better in detecting the

spiral earlier & finding level ground (even just " sitting on my

hands " as has written about can be level ground). I

think the reason I'm doing better here is that I've absorbed some

useful lessons to do with 1) realizing that valuing is CHOOSING more

than it is " discovering, " and 2) focusing a tiny bit more on

choosing than on outcome.

It can be tough, of course, because we do after all care about

outcome. It just doesn't seem wise to make outcome the only focus.

Sort of self-depriving or self-denying.

Anyway that's my perspective. I'd be curious to hear how all this

sounds to you & also learn more about how you're approaching this.

- R.

[Guest guest]

>> > >(even just " sitting on my

>> > >hands " as has written about can be level ground)

Randy,

What is the " sitting on your hands " in reference to?

>> Note that you are always somewhat out of balance ...

>> and yet you are learning to adjust and " stay in balance " in the sense

>> that you can still move ahead.

And yet how do you find that balance? I never can figure out whether

I'm giving myself the break I need, or whether I'm procrastinating. Do

I tough it out or will that cause me to snap - I guess I need to just

make a decision and feel good about whatever it is.

> It's a two-seat tandem bike, and the person behind you is yelling at you,

telling you all kinds of stuff. Go the way you've always gone. You'll crash and

hurt yourself. A passing car will knock you off your bike. it's too risky riding

amongst all that traffic.

>

> But you're the one in front, the one steering the bike. You can go where you

want and when you want, and pedal at your own speed.

>

> Cheers,

> Stan

>

>

>

>> > > >

>> > > > I've been wondering about the problem/danger of engaging

>> > > > in avoidance after acceptance.

>> > >

>> > > Hi O Kisutch,

>> > >

>> > > Nice to see you on the list again!

>> > >

>> > > A really long answer to your interesting question if you're up for

>> > > it:

>> > >

>> > > I am in a similar situation, in that I too am going after a couple

>> > > of tough domains for me. I'm doing it in combination with some

>> > > social exposure exercises (see my recent post to Stan, message

>> > > #15433). So the same questions that seem to have occurred to you

>> > > have ocurred to me also.

>> > >

>> > > What I mean is, in going after committed action in these domains,

>> > > there seems to be a lot of slipping, avoidance, " forgetting, " etc.

>> > > involved! It can be days or even a couple of weeks till I remind

>> > > myself to re-focus & re-commit. And it often feels just

>> > > super-slippery, with no sure way to " know what to do " sometimes.

>> > >

>> > > That said, the overall " how to do it " part seems fairly

>> > > straightforward to me. I try to keep these guidelines in mind:

>> > >

>> > > - Self-scolding doesn't work for me. At all. It helps me to remember

>> > > that the inner scolding voice is a learned social behavior and can

>> > > be disregarded even as it blabs on.

>> > >

>> > > - Since I can't control the outcome (and am working at some stuff

>> > > that would be hard outcome-wise for anyone, I think), I focus more

>> > > on the process of staying engaged and doing my best, or what I hope

>> > > is my best. Scary at times.

>> > >

>> > > - It helps to practice the choice of seeing myself as valid even

>> > > when my experience seems horrible or noisy or whatever. Tricky

>> > > stuff, I still find. There are times when I can pull it off and

>> > > other times when I seem stuck for a while.

>> > >

>> > > - Noticing when my mind is getting caught up in thoughts like the

>> > > ones you mention in the first paragraph of your email: " Will I be

>> > > worse off than I was before day one? Or no better or no worse off? "

>> > > I agree these seem like important things to worry about ... but for

>> > > me, that's where it stops. They only SEEM important. Such thoughts

>> > > are part of the old agenda.

>> > >

>> > > - Letting myself notice & enjoy more of the good stuff in life when

>> > > it happens. My automatic thoughts are all about " don't fall for that

>> > > good stuff - you know it will go away - stay uptight so you don't

>> > > get fooled! " Another great ha-ha!

>> > >

>> > > As for pitfalls - what is concerning for me, I guess, is when I see

>> > > myself getting sucked into a fusion spiral. This used to happen to

>> > > me a lot; these days it happens slightly less, but still does on

>> > > occasion. Basically, it involves a chain of actions & reactions:

>> > >

>> > > Thinking hard about values > getting depressed about a value being

>> > > " impossible " > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a

>> > > result.

>> > >

>> > > Another such sequence runs like this:

>> > >

>> > > Take an action in line with a value > something happens that seems

>> > > threatening (i.e. I think I'm getting rejected, whether or not I

>> > > really am) > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a result,

>> > > e.g. judging myself harshly to pre-empt possible harsh judgment by

>> > > others. (What a trip!)

>> > >

>> > > Especially with the type of spiral where the first stage is thinking

>> > > about values, I seem to be doing a bit better in detecting the

>> > > spiral earlier & finding level ground (even just " sitting on my

>> > > hands " as has written about can be level ground). I

>> > > think the reason I'm doing better here is that I've absorbed some

>> > > useful lessons to do with 1) realizing that valuing is CHOOSING more

>> > > than it is " discovering, " and 2) focusing a tiny bit more on

>> > > choosing than on outcome.

>> > >

>> > > It can be tough, of course, because we do after all care about

>> > > outcome. It just doesn't seem wise to make outcome the only focus.

>> > > Sort of self-depriving or self-denying.

>> > >

>> > > Anyway that's my perspective. I'd be curious to hear how all this

>> > > sounds to you & also learn more about how you're approaching this.

>> > >

>> > > - R.

>> > >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

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