Re: Avoidance After Acceptance

[Guest guest]

>  

> I've been wondering about the problem/danger of engaging

> in avoidance after acceptance.

Hi O Kisutch,

Nice to see you on the list again!

A really long answer to your interesting question if you're up for

it:

I am in a similar situation, in that I too am going after a couple

of tough domains for me. I'm doing it in combination with some

social exposure exercises (see my recent post to Stan, message

#15433). So the same questions that seem to have occurred to you

have ocurred to me also.

What I mean is, in going after committed action in these domains,

there seems to be a lot of slipping, avoidance, " forgetting, " etc.

involved! It can be days or even a couple of weeks till I remind

myself to re-focus & re-commit. And it often feels just

super-slippery, with no sure way to " know what to do " sometimes.

That said, the overall " how to do it " part seems fairly

straightforward to me. I try to keep these guidelines in mind:

- Self-scolding doesn't work for me. At all. It helps me to remember

that the inner scolding voice is a learned social behavior and can

be disregarded even as it blabs on.

- Since I can't control the outcome (and am working at some stuff

that would be hard outcome-wise for anyone, I think), I focus more

on the process of staying engaged and doing my best, or what I hope

is my best. Scary at times.

- It helps to practice the choice of seeing myself as valid even

when my experience seems horrible or noisy or whatever. Tricky

stuff, I still find. There are times when I can pull it off and

other times when I seem stuck for a while.

- Noticing when my mind is getting caught up in thoughts like the

ones you mention in the first paragraph of your email: " Will I be

worse off than I was before day one? Or no better or no worse off? "

I agree these seem like important things to worry about ... but for

me, that's where it stops. They only SEEM important. Such thoughts

are part of the old agenda.

- Letting myself notice & enjoy more of the good stuff in life when

it happens. My automatic thoughts are all about " don't fall for that

good stuff - you know it will go away - stay uptight so you don't

get fooled! " Another great ha-ha!

As for pitfalls - what is concerning for me, I guess, is when I see

myself getting sucked into a fusion spiral. This used to happen to

me a lot; these days it happens slightly less, but still does on

occasion. Basically, it involves a chain of actions & reactions:

Thinking hard about values > getting depressed about a value being

" impossible " > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a

result.

Another such sequence runs like this:

Take an action in line with a value > something happens that seems

threatening (i.e. I think I'm getting rejected, whether or not I

really am) > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a result,

e.g. judging myself harshly to pre-empt possible harsh judgment by

others. (What a trip!)

Especially with the type of spiral where the first stage is thinking

about values, I seem to be doing a bit better in detecting the

spiral earlier & finding level ground (even just " sitting on my

hands " as has written about can be level ground). I

think the reason I'm doing better here is that I've absorbed some

useful lessons to do with 1) realizing that valuing is CHOOSING more

than it is " discovering, " and 2) focusing a tiny bit more on

choosing than on outcome.

It can be tough, of course, because we do after all care about

outcome. It just doesn't seem wise to make outcome the only focus.

Sort of self-depriving or self-denying.

Anyway that's my perspective. I'd be curious to hear how all this

sounds to you & also learn more about how you're approaching this.

- R.

[Guest guest]

Neat stuff in here.The key to managing this ebb and flow is to expect it,open up to it, and learn from it. Otherwise your mind will turn this natural learning process into yet another problem to be solved.

Sheesh. It is not.The cycle you describe is built in.Imagine you are riding a bike. You push with your right footand as you do the bike falls to the right. You adjust left. If you just did that and

nothing else once the bike slowed to a stop you'd fall down. But as youfind your balance you then can push with yourleft foot and move forward again -- and as you do you fall to the left.You sense that and adjust right. If you just did that and

nothing else once the bike slowed to a stop you'd fall down. But as you

find your balance you push with your

right  foot.Daisy, Daisy. Give me your answer do.You are moving. Note that you are always somewhat out of balance ...and yet you are learning to adjust and " stay in balance " in the sense

that you can still move ahead.How fast are you moving? Well in one sense of that question who the hell cares. Are you in a race?You will move as fast as you choose / as works for you / as seems availablebut you will do that only if you learn the process of being

somewhat out of balance

and yet adjusting enough to still pedal ahead.It is the ACT bicycleYou engage in values based choices. Down goes the right foot. As you do

things get into newer and scarier territory.You shift weight and take your foot off the pedal jsut a smidgeas you come into consciousness.That little adjustment sets up the opportunity to work a bit on acceptance/

mindfulness etc. That is a push with the other foot.But as you do you get into newer and scarier territory.

You are growing; learning; evolving.The key to managing this ebb and flow is to expect it,

open up to it, and learn from it. In other words, learn toenjoy the ride at your pace.Daisy, daisy, give me your answer do.- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298

University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site:  http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (it is semi-functional) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at website of the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science (ACBS): www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost if up to your own values.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

 

Randy,

Thanks for the kind reply. I found a lot of what you said helpful. Like you, I'm focusing on being willinging + acting in the situation in which I am exposing myself to the avoided feeling, rather than focusing on outcomes.

The couple of things I'm putting into practice now based on past experience are:

1) Randomly engaging in " beacuse I said so " practice--like going into a store, saying something to someone, turning off the computer etc. Just to loosen things up. And it is a good habit/practice for the procrastionation issue and taking committed action in the face of the headwind of intense emotional experiences.

2) Not writing about this stuff too much--trying to keep the decks clear for willingness and action

3) Getting in touch with the feared experiences first thing in the morning by giving them a bit of thought as I get dressed.

4) I've noticed that I when I am willingly feeling anxiety, the quality and extent of the actions I take can vary wildly. I am trying to increase the quality and extent of action. Concentrating carefully on things that might embarass me if I look too hard, acting slowly where I feel the desire to speed things up to a conclusion, taking a further step into a situation where I am already pretty well in touch with anxiety or fear of shame. Thinking about what to do next when feeling flummoxed.

5) It feels like it's important to stay in touch with the heat and presence of the avoided experience, if only to remind yourself what you are avoiding, and what you value.

The gaps between engaging in the work are definitely a problem. I have decided that I would really like to be acting willingly in areas which historically I have avoided--even when I was working toward them using ACT. I want to be taking longer strides, more and more often.

These are just a few of the things that are in my head right now. I wish you good luck in your work.

O

> >  

> > I've been wondering about the problem/danger of engaging

> > in avoidance after acceptance.

>

> Hi O Kisutch,

>

> Nice to see you on the list again!

>

> A really long answer to your interesting question if you're up for

> it:

>

> I am in a similar situation, in that I too am going after a couple

> of tough domains for me. I'm doing it in combination with some

> social exposure exercises (see my recent post to Stan, message

> #15433). So the same questions that seem to have occurred to you

> have ocurred to me also.

>

> What I mean is, in going after committed action in these domains,

> there seems to be a lot of slipping, avoidance, " forgetting, " etc.

> involved! It can be days or even a couple of weeks till I remind

> myself to re-focus & re-commit. And it often feels just

> super-slippery, with no sure way to " know what to do " sometimes.

>

> That said, the overall " how to do it " part seems fairly

> straightforward to me. I try to keep these guidelines in mind:

>

> - Self-scolding doesn't work for me. At all. It helps me to remember

> that the inner scolding voice is a learned social behavior and can

> be disregarded even as it blabs on.

>

> - Since I can't control the outcome (and am working at some stuff

> that would be hard outcome-wise for anyone, I think), I focus more

> on the process of staying engaged and doing my best, or what I hope

> is my best. Scary at times.

>

> - It helps to practice the choice of seeing myself as valid even

> when my experience seems horrible or noisy or whatever. Tricky

> stuff, I still find. There are times when I can pull it off and

> other times when I seem stuck for a while.

>

> - Noticing when my mind is getting caught up in thoughts like the

> ones you mention in the first paragraph of your email: " Will I be

> worse off than I was before day one? Or no better or no worse off? "

> I agree these seem like important things to worry about ... but for

> me, that's where it stops. They only SEEM important. Such thoughts

> are part of the old agenda.

>

> - Letting myself notice & enjoy more of the good stuff in life when

> it happens. My automatic thoughts are all about " don't fall for that

> good stuff - you know it will go away - stay uptight so you don't

> get fooled! " Another great ha-ha!

>

> As for pitfalls - what is concerning for me, I guess, is when I see

> myself getting sucked into a fusion spiral. This used to happen to

> me a lot; these days it happens slightly less, but still does on

> occasion. Basically, it involves a chain of actions & reactions:

>

> Thinking hard about values > getting depressed about a value being

> " impossible " > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a

> result.

>

> Another such sequence runs like this:

>

> Take an action in line with a value > something happens that seems

> threatening (i.e. I think I'm getting rejected, whether or not I

> really am) > self-sabotaging via this or that behavior as a result,

> e.g. judging myself harshly to pre-empt possible harsh judgment by

> others. (What a trip!)

>

> Especially with the type of spiral where the first stage is thinking

> about values, I seem to be doing a bit better in detecting the

> spiral earlier & finding level ground (even just " sitting on my

> hands " as has written about can be level ground). I

> think the reason I'm doing better here is that I've absorbed some

> useful lessons to do with 1) realizing that valuing is CHOOSING more

> than it is " discovering, " and 2) focusing a tiny bit more on

> choosing than on outcome.

>

> It can be tough, of course, because we do after all care about

> outcome. It just doesn't seem wise to make outcome the only focus.

> Sort of self-depriving or self-denying.

>

> Anyway that's my perspective. I'd be curious to hear how all this

> sounds to you & also learn more about how you're approaching this.

>

> - R.

>