Re: Inner Conflict

September 19, 2011

I suspect you are having more pain and more issues then just the issues with your past job. I sense a lot of struggling in your email.I often feel shame and guilt. I have to sit down and observe myself have these thoughts. These thoughts cause me to suffer from anxiety so if I get to that point, I have to observe my anxiety and slowly I can settle down my mind and look at myself.

I also feel like an outsider in everything. Sit and recognize those thoughts as just thoughts. The feelings of anxiety and depression are feelings. Observe them as they happen.Sometimes I can't wind down and get any space for mindfulness.

Just my opinion on this, you can't take anything on Facebook to have any meaning. Each user may use it for their own purpose. Some people only want it to be family or something. I had to just delete my Facebook acct (that is avoidance though) because it didn't do anything for me. It only added pain to my thoughts.

Are you comfortable having these thoughts of revenge? Will they help you in the long run? I am an ACT beginner myself so maybe some of the others who are more experienced can help you.Be compassionate and forgive yourself.

Hey everyone, I need some help.

I have daily thoughts about revenge and or telling a certain group of people off because I was fired from a job and a bunch of them reported me to management. I was wrong in some aspects, but they made damn sure to give every nook and cranny of detail to incriminate and or satisfy their right to report harrasment even though I was not acting with malicious intent, even though some of what I said was inappropriate. I was terminated partly because of that and partly for other reasons not having to do with anyone in particular. Another co-worker also talked behind my back and I heard him, he also did not accept a face book request I sent to him....

I'm angry/shamed because I....

-Didn't tell these people what I thought when this happened.

-I actually apologized, but no one returned my calls, so I feel I subjected myself to the very people that turned me in.

- I cryed and yelled and acted all weird and angry and people saw it when I was in the termination meeting process/post process.

-I had no closure

-I'm pissed at myself because I feel like I'm a pussy, and it's been 3 years and if I go back to say or do anything now I'm going to look like an idiot, plus I have shame thoughts that stop me because of poor job performance and everyone was doing better than me/were more senior than me so that stops me from going back and saying anything.

-I'm in a business now that requires me to get clients, so I have a fear of damaging my reputation if I go back and tell these people how I feel, angrily albeit. On top of catastrophic thoughts already that they will somehow sabatoge my reputation on social networks, etc...

-I actually sent this one of these people a facebook friend request like an idiot, and I know this guy wouldn't care if I died.

-I have a long history of failure/depression/shame/embarassment/regrets, social embarrasment,blah, blah, blah.

-I'm not a man for being tough and being confused. Other people are strong and I'm just a fearful pussy, worried about his fucking reputation.

Am I justified, ha, maybe so, maybe not, maybe after all this time I think emotional reasoning has made my anger/shame worse.

I bought the ACT on life not on anger book...should I just keep defusing these anger/shame/self-esteem thoughts? I switch from, yeah I forgive, but then my mind hooks me and says, " What if your supposed to do something about this? " Like, if you feeling a pain in your chest everyday your mind will keep bugging you, so it's obvious you should go see a doctor...see what I mean? Here are the thoughts

" Am I avoiding confronting these folks because I'm not exposing myself to fear and avoiding it " " What if you'll feel better if you give them a piece of your mind? " " Naaa, don't do it...it's not part of your values, plus you'll ruin your reputation, even though it probably wouldn't " " I can't make decisions " " Is this a decision " " How does this fit into ACT? " " Am I having trouble because I smoke too many cigars and have an unhealthy sedentary lifestyle at the moment? " " All this mamby pamby values stuff is turning my brain into mush, all this compassion bullshit, wtf? It's making things worse... " " I don't even know how to think... " " ACT is making this worse because if I didn't try to think and apply these act principles I'd just go do what I wanted to do without this confusion... " " I stand up to the people I care about in my life, but for some idiotic reason I want the approval of strangers who don't give a shit about me and probably think I'm dangerous and crazy because of ocd thoughts about my business reputation and wanting approval and to be wanted, yet I can stand my ground against people I love and that love me because I know they won't reject me...(ouch) " . " Are these thoughts workable, are they moving me towards a vital life? I don't know? " , " What life skills am I missing? " " How can I know what's right for me and wrong if I'm just defusing stuff all the time? "

Stuff like that....

-Thanks in advance for your responses. The forum is great and ACT has definitely helped me get moving on some values even when I don't " Feel " like it.

-Peace.

-- Regards,Phil

September 19, 2011

You're right Philip, there is more pain then the job, a lot of ongoing

frustration with not being where I want to be in life, and every day seems like

a grind in many ways and that's been going on for me for about 20 years. But

ACT is helping a lot recently; mainly by using defusion and accepting that I'm

going to have pain in my head and going ahead and doing values/what's important

anyhow. I feel blocked from goals a lot, and that's probably a big source of

frustration. ACT is like a beacon of light for now, just knowing about it gives

me hope as I'm trying to learn/apply it to my life. I think I'm in a state of

just plain old confusion because I even have trouble clarifying my values and

trying to apply ACT. It's hard to explain, I have a sense that I'm trying to

gain re-assurance and finding something stable to form a sense of identity or

something. So for instance if I sat with or an ACT therapist for

an hour or two and listened to his/her advice on my issues I'd have some sort of

confidence or re-assurance after talking to someone who's guidance I could

trust. Most people I'm around either don't know what they are talking about, or

think all my problems are because I need to come back to Jesus. I'm longing for

that personalized attention/counsel and I think I'll go that route soon. But

like I said, just reading some ACT stuff really gives me a sense that I can live

better, and I like that. Good point about the facebook thing.

-peace.

>

> > **

> >

> > Hey everyone, I need some help.

> >

> > I have daily thoughts about revenge and or telling a certain group of

> > people off because I was fired from a job and a bunch of them reported me to

> > management. I was wrong in some aspects, but they made damn sure to give

> > every nook and cranny of detail to incriminate and or satisfy their right to

> > report harrasment even though I was not acting with malicious intent, even

> > though some of what I said was inappropriate. I was terminated partly

> > because of that and partly for other reasons not having to do with anyone in

> > particular. Another co-worker also talked behind my back and I heard him, he

> > also did not accept a face book request I sent to him....

> >

> > I'm angry/shamed because I....

> >

> > -Didn't tell these people what I thought when this happened.

> > -I actually apologized, but no one returned my calls, so I feel I subjected

> > myself to the very people that turned me in.

> > - I cryed and yelled and acted all weird and angry and people saw it when I

> > was in the termination meeting process/post process.

> > -I had no closure

> > -I'm pissed at myself because I feel like I'm a pussy, and it's been 3

> > years and if I go back to say or do anything now I'm going to look like an

> > idiot, plus I have shame thoughts that stop me because of poor job

> > performance and everyone was doing better than me/were more senior than me

> > so that stops me from going back and saying anything.

> > -I'm in a business now that requires me to get clients, so I have a fear of

> > damaging my reputation if I go back and tell these people how I feel,

> > angrily albeit. On top of catastrophic thoughts already that they will

> > somehow sabatoge my reputation on social networks, etc...

> > -I actually sent this one of these people a facebook friend request like an

> > idiot, and I know this guy wouldn't care if I died.

> > -I have a long history of failure/depression/shame/embarassment/regrets,

> > social embarrasment,blah, blah, blah.

> > -I'm not a man for being tough and being confused. Other people are strong

> > and I'm just a fearful pussy, worried about his fucking reputation.

> >

> > Am I justified, ha, maybe so, maybe not, maybe after all this time I think

> > emotional reasoning has made my anger/shame worse.

> >

> > I bought the ACT on life not on anger book...should I just keep defusing

> > these anger/shame/self-esteem thoughts? I switch from, yeah I forgive, but

> > then my mind hooks me and says, " What if your supposed to do something about

> > this? " Like, if you feeling a pain in your chest everyday your mind will

> > keep bugging you, so it's obvious you should go see a doctor...see what I

> > mean? Here are the thoughts

> >

> > " Am I avoiding confronting these folks because I'm not exposing myself to

> > fear and avoiding it " " What if you'll feel better if you give them a piece

> > of your mind? " " Naaa, don't do it...it's not part of your values, plus

> > you'll ruin your reputation, even though it probably wouldn't " " I can't make

> > decisions " " Is this a decision " " How does this fit into ACT? " " Am I having

> > trouble because I smoke too many cigars and have an unhealthy sedentary

> > lifestyle at the moment? " " All this mamby pamby values stuff is turning my

> > brain into mush, all this compassion bullshit, wtf? It's making things

> > worse... " " I don't even know how to think... " " ACT is making this worse

> > because if I didn't try to think and apply these act principles I'd just go

> > do what I wanted to do without this confusion... " " I stand up to the people

> > I care about in my life, but for some idiotic reason I want the approval of

> > strangers who don't give a shit about me and probably think I'm dangerous

> > and crazy because of ocd thoughts about my business reputation and wanting

> > approval and to be wanted, yet I can stand my ground against people I love

> > and that love me because I know they won't reject me...(ouch) " . " Are these

> > thoughts workable, are they moving me towards a vital life? I don't know? " ,

> > " What life skills am I missing? " " How can I know what's right for me and

> > wrong if I'm just defusing stuff all the time? "

> >

> > Stuff like that....

> >

> > -Thanks in advance for your responses. The forum is great and ACT has

> > definitely helped me get moving on some values even when I don't " Feel " like

> > it.

> >

> > -Peace.

> >

>

> --

> Regards,

> Phil

>

September 19, 2011

ilikeact,

I read your post several times in an effort to suss out the heart of your

difficulties.

At one point you said: " I think emotional reasoning has made my anger/shame

worse. "

This, if my experience is anything to go by, is the central problem. You're

trying to make sense of your conflicting thoughts and feelings and trying to

sort them into something that gives you peace of mind.

One thing that almost every ACT book says is that we have no control over the

thoughts and feeling and actions of other people. To this, I would add that we

have little or no control over the thoughts that come into our head. Not only

that, but fighting them and trying to replace them with ones we like more only

makes things worse. Fighting an unwanted thought only makes it stronger and more

vicious.

So, what do you do? My advice is to see your thoughts as your mind's attempt to

deal with what is sees as a problem that needs to be solved. Thoughts, as

painful and insistent as they often are, are just a bunch of neurons firing in

your brain, and the cascade of neurons that fire in response are just that:

thoughts. They come, they stay a while and, if you don't engage with them and

try to fight them, they go.

The people who you see as making your life a misery are only human, just like

you. They are only doing the best they can, given what their genes and

upbringing and the life they've lived till now have given them. They have their

own wayward thoughts and fears and griefs and worries, and they are doing the

best they can with what they have available to them.

Re values, the questions I've been asking myself lately is: what do I stand for?

what gives my life purpose? what, at their most extreme, am I willing to die

for? what do I want people to say about me and the life I've lived at my funeral

(which, at 63, is not that far away)?

As values go, compassion is a big one. Not only for ourselves, but for others.

We are all doing the best we know how given our history and who we are,

including those who seem to want to hurt us.

Please treat yourself kindly and with compassion. Your mind is only trying in

its often misguided way to solve what it sees as problems. Thank it for its

efforts and continue doing the things you want to do.

Cheers, and all the very best,

Stan

>

> Hey everyone, I need some help.

>

> I have daily thoughts about revenge and or telling a certain group of people

off because I was fired from a job and a bunch of them reported me to

management. I was wrong in some aspects, but they made damn sure to give every

nook and cranny of detail to incriminate and or satisfy their right to report

harrasment even though I was not acting with malicious intent, even though some

of what I said was inappropriate. I was terminated partly because of that and

partly for other reasons not having to do with anyone in particular. Another

co-worker also talked behind my back and I heard him, he also did not accept a

face book request I sent to him....

>

> I'm angry/shamed because I....

>

> -Didn't tell these people what I thought when this happened.

> -I actually apologized, but no one returned my calls, so I feel I subjected

myself to the very people that turned me in.

> - I cryed and yelled and acted all weird and angry and people saw it when I

was in the termination meeting process/post process.

> -I had no closure

> -I'm pissed at myself because I feel like I'm a pussy, and it's been 3 years

and if I go back to say or do anything now I'm going to look like an idiot, plus

I have shame thoughts that stop me because of poor job performance and everyone

was doing better than me/were more senior than me so that stops me from going

back and saying anything.

> -I'm in a business now that requires me to get clients, so I have a fear of

damaging my reputation if I go back and tell these people how I feel, angrily

albeit. On top of catastrophic thoughts already that they will somehow sabatoge

my reputation on social networks, etc...

> -I actually sent this one of these people a facebook friend request like an

idiot, and I know this guy wouldn't care if I died.

> -I have a long history of failure/depression/shame/embarassment/regrets,

social embarrasment,blah, blah, blah.

> -I'm not a man for being tough and being confused. Other people are strong

and I'm just a fearful pussy, worried about his fucking reputation.

>

> Am I justified, ha, maybe so, maybe not, maybe after all this time I think

emotional reasoning has made my anger/shame worse.

>

> I bought the ACT on life not on anger book...should I just keep defusing these

anger/shame/self-esteem thoughts? I switch from, yeah I forgive, but then my

mind hooks me and says, " What if your supposed to do something about this? "

Like, if you feeling a pain in your chest everyday your mind will keep bugging

you, so it's obvious you should go see a doctor...see what I mean? Here are the

thoughts

>

> " Am I avoiding confronting these folks because I'm not exposing myself to fear

and avoiding it " " What if you'll feel better if you give them a piece of your

mind? " " Naaa, don't do it...it's not part of your values, plus you'll ruin your

reputation, even though it probably wouldn't " " I can't make decisions " " Is

this a decision " " How does this fit into ACT? " " Am I having trouble because I

smoke too many cigars and have an unhealthy sedentary lifestyle at the moment? "

" All this mamby pamby values stuff is turning my brain into mush, all this

compassion bullshit, wtf? It's making things worse... " " I don't even know how

to think... " " ACT is making this worse because if I didn't try to think and

apply these act principles I'd just go do what I wanted to do without this

confusion... " " I stand up to the people I care about in my life, but for some

idiotic reason I want the approval of strangers who don't give a shit about me

and probably think I'm dangerous and crazy because of ocd thoughts about my

business reputation and wanting approval and to be wanted, yet I can stand my

ground against people I love and that love me because I know they won't reject

me...(ouch) " . " Are these thoughts workable, are they moving me towards a vital

life? I don't know? " , " What life skills am I missing? " " How can I know what's

right for me and wrong if I'm just defusing stuff all the time? "

>

> Stuff like that....

>

> -Thanks in advance for your responses. The forum is great and ACT has

definitely helped me get moving on some values even when I don't " Feel " like it.

>

> -Peace.

>

September 19, 2011

hi phil:-)

u r excellent for a beginer...i read ur email and i was like ..nooooooo

waaaaaaaay, that's what i was saying...just mine in an essay form;-)

from just the few lines u mentioned , u r doing mindfulness right there...

ur email also says a lotta thinngs ur doing urself

* focusing on the present Moment

* Connecting with the Observing Self

* practising Psychological Flexibility

* Defusion

* Practising clean discomfort

* Non -judgemental acceptance of ur feelings and emotions

* Walking in a Valued Direction

* Taking committed action

so mabrook! ...hope to hear more from u here...

wasalaam:-)

==================================================================

>

> I suspect you are having more pain and more issues then just the issues with

> your past job. I sense a lot of struggling in your email.

>

> I often feel shame and guilt. I have to sit down and observe myself have

> these thoughts. These thoughts cause me to suffer from anxiety so if I get

> to that point, I have to observe my anxiety and slowly I can settle down my

> mind and look at myself.

>

> I also feel like an outsider in everything. Sit and recognize those

> thoughts as just thoughts. The feelings of anxiety and depression are

> feelings. Observe them as they happen.

>

> Sometimes I can't wind down and get any space for mindfulness.

>

> Just my opinion on this, you can't take anything on Facebook to have any

> meaning. Each user may use it for their own purpose. Some people only want

> it to be family or something. I had to just delete my Facebook acct (that

> is avoidance though) because it didn't do anything for me. It only added

> pain to my thoughts.

>

> Are you comfortable having these thoughts of revenge? Will they help you in

> the long run? I am an ACT beginner myself so maybe some of the others who

> are more experienced can help you.

>

> Be compassionate and forgive yourself.

September 19, 2011

Shame is appropriate when one's actions endanger one's standing in the group. And isn't acceptance about not resisting the realization that I have made a mistake or have taken a course that has me leaving the pack? To begin moving forward, I have to realize where I am and I need to know which direction is forward. Acceptance and values...?

D

You're right Philip, there is more pain then the job, a lot of ongoing frustration with not being where I want to be in life, and every day seems like a grind in many ways and that's been going on for me for about 20 years. But ACT is helping a lot recently; mainly by using defusion and accepting that I'm going to have pain in my head and going ahead and doing values/what's important anyhow. I feel blocked from goals a lot, and that's probably a big source of frustration. ACT is like a beacon of light for now, just knowing about it gives me hope as I'm trying to learn/apply it to my life. I think I'm in a state of just plain old confusion because I even have trouble clarifying my values and trying to apply ACT. It's hard to explain, I have a sense that I'm trying to gain re-assurance and finding something stable to form a sense of identity or something. So for instance if I sat with or an ACT therapist for an hour or two and listened to his/her advice on my issues I'd have some sort of confidence or re-assurance after talking to someone who's guidance I could trust. Most people I'm around either don't know what they are talking about, or think all my problems are because I need to come back to Jesus. I'm longing for that personalized attention/counsel and I think I'll go that route soon. But like I said, just reading some ACT stuff really gives me a sense that I can live better, and I like that. Good point about the facebook thing.