Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truth

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou,

Yes, that's my voice. Agree it can be a powerful exercise.

-R.

> >

> > Hi Iolanda.

> >

> > If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts

> > & feelings with a formula such as " I am experiencing the thought

> > that I am lonely " wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so

> > would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be

> > you.

> >

> > This sort of formula is only one of many ways of practicing

> > defusion. And it is just practice, not something you'd have to do

> > forever.

> >

> > Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula

> > ( " I'm having the thought that ... " ) would be too much like denying

> > who you really are as a person? Does it seem like it might raise

> > the possibility that " you " would no longer be " you " ? That you could

> > no longer trust the intimate voice in your head that has been there

> > (as it has for all of us) since you were very small?

> >

> > There is no need to try this trick of " I'm having the thought

> > that, " etc., if you don't want to. I can tell you, though, that if

> > you do try it, no matter what happens you won't disintegrate. You

> > won't stop having your usual thoughts either.

> >

> > Even so, rather than push " I'm having the thought that ... " on you,

> > I'd like to suggest that you try another sort of exercise. This is

> > the " ACT Observer Exercise " and it can be kind of fun plus it might

> > reassure you about who you are versus all this defusion stuff.

> >

> > Maybe you've tried this " Observer " exercise already? If not, you

> > can find a version of it on p. 94 of " Get Out of Your Mind and Into

> > Your Life. " And you can also find a recorded version of it on my

> > web site at this URL:

> >

> > http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/

> >

> > Good luck!

> >

> > - Randy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou,

Yes, that's my voice. Agree it can be a powerful exercise.

-R.

> >

> > Hi Iolanda.

> >

> > If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts

> > & feelings with a formula such as " I am experiencing the thought

> > that I am lonely " wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so

> > would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be

> > you.

> >

> > This sort of formula is only one of many ways of practicing

> > defusion. And it is just practice, not something you'd have to do

> > forever.

> >

> > Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula

> > ( " I'm having the thought that ... " ) would be too much like denying

> > who you really are as a person? Does it seem like it might raise

> > the possibility that " you " would no longer be " you " ? That you could

> > no longer trust the intimate voice in your head that has been there

> > (as it has for all of us) since you were very small?

> >

> > There is no need to try this trick of " I'm having the thought

> > that, " etc., if you don't want to. I can tell you, though, that if

> > you do try it, no matter what happens you won't disintegrate. You

> > won't stop having your usual thoughts either.

> >

> > Even so, rather than push " I'm having the thought that ... " on you,

> > I'd like to suggest that you try another sort of exercise. This is

> > the " ACT Observer Exercise " and it can be kind of fun plus it might

> > reassure you about who you are versus all this defusion stuff.

> >

> > Maybe you've tried this " Observer " exercise already? If not, you

> > can find a version of it on p. 94 of " Get Out of Your Mind and Into

> > Your Life. " And you can also find a recorded version of it on my

> > web site at this URL:

> >

> > http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/

> >

> > Good luck!

> >

> > - Randy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the replies everyone

> If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts

> & feelings with a formula such as " I am experiencing the thought

> that I am lonely " wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so

> would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be

> you.

Actually, I'm NOT having that thought ....... I am actually FEELING lonely

within my

body........ i'm feeling the loneliness emotionally and consequently in my body

...... and

I feel it before I even cognitively notice it.

I don't actually go thinking " I'm lonely " . The only coping mechanism I have

used is to

attend to my values (or other distractions if I'm too unwell to do values)

> Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula

> ( " I'm having the thought that ... " ) would be too much like denying

> who you really are as a person?

I don't like how " mechanical " and technical it is ..... it doesn't seem

natural for me

to do and highlights the artificiality of the whole process.

> web site at this URL:

>

> http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/

I tried listening to the MP3 and this type of technique is not " me " .....

there's no way

that I could be thinking alone these terms.

Lou said

> The 'Chessboard metaphor' is also a very powerful tool for change. (Thanks for

teaching

> me that Steve).

> I found this recording on youtube some time ago. I think it is a good

description of how

> the metaphor works.

I watched the video and, once again, it's not my style of thinking.

thanks for the replies .......

iolanda

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the replies everyone

> If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts

> & feelings with a formula such as " I am experiencing the thought

> that I am lonely " wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so

> would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be

> you.

Actually, I'm NOT having that thought ....... I am actually FEELING lonely

within my

body........ i'm feeling the loneliness emotionally and consequently in my body

...... and

I feel it before I even cognitively notice it.

I don't actually go thinking " I'm lonely " . The only coping mechanism I have

used is to

attend to my values (or other distractions if I'm too unwell to do values)

> Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula

> ( " I'm having the thought that ... " ) would be too much like denying

> who you really are as a person?

I don't like how " mechanical " and technical it is ..... it doesn't seem

natural for me

to do and highlights the artificiality of the whole process.

> web site at this URL:

>

> http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/

I tried listening to the MP3 and this type of technique is not " me " .....

there's no way

that I could be thinking alone these terms.

Lou said

> The 'Chessboard metaphor' is also a very powerful tool for change. (Thanks for

teaching

> me that Steve).

> I found this recording on youtube some time ago. I think it is a good

description of how

> the metaphor works.

I watched the video and, once again, it's not my style of thinking.

thanks for the replies .......

iolanda

[Guest guest]

Hi iolanda,

I'm going to out on a limb a bit here with something I've been contemplating concerning your physical and cognitive limitations based on the brain injury and illness you've spoken about with us.

You seem to find much of he advice offered by others unworkable for you, while many others have found it very helpful. Here's what I am wondering: Could the brain injury, which affects your memory and general functioning, be a factor in your inability to practice the advice? ... you seem to be saying "my brain just doesn't work like that." Perhaps your brain works differently from most other people's in such a way that it just can't process the advice or do certain exercises? If that is the case, then I understand your dilemma. Ask yourself, though (and you may have done so already) if your inability to use the advice offered to you truly comes from your brain injury, or could you be resisting the advice for other reasons? I'm not jumping to either conclusion here - just trying to understand what makes you tick.

Having a feeling of sadness before you cognitively notice it is not uncommon with many of us. There comes a point, however, in which words about that feeling are mentally spoken, at which time you ARE having thoughts or you woudn't be able to express the feeling in words. For example, you are expressing your thoughts about your sadness when you write about it here.

Something to try: Next time you first notice that your mind is saying things about your feelings of sadness, recognize those words as your thoughts about the sad feelings. At that point, you might try one of the suggestions or exercises mentioned. You don't have to like them, and you may consider them artificial and technical, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be helpful. Perhaps you could put those judgments aside and go outside your comfort zone long enough to try them. Be willing to have those uncomfortable feelings - "This isn't me; this won't work" - and do it anyway. Do you think that would be possible, even in spite of your brain injury? With practice and constant mindfulness, you may become cognitively aware almost immediately upon having those feelings.

Only you (and perhaps with the help of your doctor or therapist) can figure out what is driving your dysfunctional mind: the brain injury; your resistance and struggle against what it; or both. We all have dysfunctional minds to some extent, and what works for one may not work for another, including ACT.

Just something to think about. I'd be interested on hearing what your response.

Best,

Helena

From: "cyberfriend" <cyberfriendoptusnet.au>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 7:24:33 AMSubject: Re: Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truth

Thanks for the replies everyone> If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts> & feelings with a formula such as "I am experiencing the thought> that I am lonely" wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so> would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be> you.Actually, I'm NOT having that thought ....... I am actually FEELING lonely within my body........ i'm feeling the loneliness emotionally and consequently in my body ..... and I feel it before I even cognitively notice it.I don't actually go thinking "I'm lonely". The only coping mechanism I have used is to attend to my values (or other distractions if I'm too unwell to do values)> Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula> ("I'm having the thought that ...") would be too much like denying> who you really are as a person?I don't like how "mechanical" and technical it is ..... it doesn't seem natural for me to do and highlights the artificiality of the whole process.> web site at this URL:>> http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/I tried listening to the MP3 and this type of technique is not "me" ..... there's no way that I could be thinking alone these terms.Lou said> The 'Chessboard metaphor' is also a very powerful tool for change. (Thanks for teaching > me that Steve).> I found this recording on youtube some time ago. I think it is a good description of how > the metaphor works.I watched the video and, once again, it's not my style of thinking.thanks for the replies .......iolanda

[Guest guest]

Hi iolanda,

I'm going to out on a limb a bit here with something I've been contemplating concerning your physical and cognitive limitations based on the brain injury and illness you've spoken about with us.

You seem to find much of he advice offered by others unworkable for you, while many others have found it very helpful. Here's what I am wondering: Could the brain injury, which affects your memory and general functioning, be a factor in your inability to practice the advice? ... you seem to be saying "my brain just doesn't work like that." Perhaps your brain works differently from most other people's in such a way that it just can't process the advice or do certain exercises? If that is the case, then I understand your dilemma. Ask yourself, though (and you may have done so already) if your inability to use the advice offered to you truly comes from your brain injury, or could you be resisting the advice for other reasons? I'm not jumping to either conclusion here - just trying to understand what makes you tick.

Having a feeling of sadness before you cognitively notice it is not uncommon with many of us. There comes a point, however, in which words about that feeling are mentally spoken, at which time you ARE having thoughts or you woudn't be able to express the feeling in words. For example, you are expressing your thoughts about your sadness when you write about it here.

Something to try: Next time you first notice that your mind is saying things about your feelings of sadness, recognize those words as your thoughts about the sad feelings. At that point, you might try one of the suggestions or exercises mentioned. You don't have to like them, and you may consider them artificial and technical, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be helpful. Perhaps you could put those judgments aside and go outside your comfort zone long enough to try them. Be willing to have those uncomfortable feelings - "This isn't me; this won't work" - and do it anyway. Do you think that would be possible, even in spite of your brain injury? With practice and constant mindfulness, you may become cognitively aware almost immediately upon having those feelings.

Only you (and perhaps with the help of your doctor or therapist) can figure out what is driving your dysfunctional mind: the brain injury; your resistance and struggle against what it; or both. We all have dysfunctional minds to some extent, and what works for one may not work for another, including ACT.

Just something to think about. I'd be interested on hearing what your response.

Best,

Helena

From: "cyberfriend" <cyberfriendoptusnet.au>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 7:24:33 AMSubject: Re: Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truth

Thanks for the replies everyone> If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts> & feelings with a formula such as "I am experiencing the thought> that I am lonely" wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so> would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be> you.Actually, I'm NOT having that thought ....... I am actually FEELING lonely within my body........ i'm feeling the loneliness emotionally and consequently in my body ..... and I feel it before I even cognitively notice it.I don't actually go thinking "I'm lonely". The only coping mechanism I have used is to attend to my values (or other distractions if I'm too unwell to do values)> Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula> ("I'm having the thought that ...") would be too much like denying> who you really are as a person?I don't like how "mechanical" and technical it is ..... it doesn't seem natural for me to do and highlights the artificiality of the whole process.> web site at this URL:>> http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/I tried listening to the MP3 and this type of technique is not "me" ..... there's no way that I could be thinking alone these terms.Lou said> The 'Chessboard metaphor' is also a very powerful tool for change. (Thanks for teaching > me that Steve).> I found this recording on youtube some time ago. I think it is a good description of how > the metaphor works.I watched the video and, once again, it's not my style of thinking.thanks for the replies .......iolanda

[Guest guest]

Hi Iolanda,

Thoughts of " who we are " and " that is/isn't me " or " I could never

do that " can serve our interests - as when we persistently commit

to a value despite setbacks, or refuse to engage in an activity

that goes against our values - or they can hinder our interests.

In ACT-speak, when such thoughts hinder us, this is sometimes

called " the conceptualized self. " It is like an ossified view of

ourselves that we cling to because it seems so much " us " that we

cannot imagine being ourselves without it - and yet - and yet - it

is hindering and not serving us.

For example, I have had, and still have, a lot of thoughts that

tell me " I could never do that " or " That's who I am. "

- I can't dance in public. That's not who I am.

- I can't make that phone call to a friend just to say hi. That

doesn't feel comfortable. That's not me.

- I can't speak up and ask that person to be quiet who is talking

too loudly on their cell phone. That's not me. That wouldn't feel

natural.

- I don't dare try and succeed in that career area. It's too hard,

too risky, requires me to talk to people, etc. It's just not me. It

wouldn't be natural.

I am not trying to put you down, hurt you, or tell you what to do

when I give these examples. I can only speak for myself in saying

that if I listened to my mind (that is, my thoughts) tell me " Who I

am " in terms of what I can and can't do that might be in my

interest ... then I would be shrinking my life way, way down.

If you cannot even try a defusion exercise like " I'm having the

thought that ... " - then what else might there be that you are not

willing to try, that might help you?

Again this may sound like pressure or being hurtful. I don't mean

it that way. I don't know your situation or what is right for you.

I can only say that such thoughts, for many many people, are a

classic way of staying stuck. But it is not my call. Maybe someone

else who can say these things more helpfully will chime in.

Hoping I am not being a pain here,

Randy

[Guest guest]

Hi Iolanda,

Thoughts of " who we are " and " that is/isn't me " or " I could never

do that " can serve our interests - as when we persistently commit

to a value despite setbacks, or refuse to engage in an activity

that goes against our values - or they can hinder our interests.

In ACT-speak, when such thoughts hinder us, this is sometimes

called " the conceptualized self. " It is like an ossified view of

ourselves that we cling to because it seems so much " us " that we

cannot imagine being ourselves without it - and yet - and yet - it

is hindering and not serving us.

For example, I have had, and still have, a lot of thoughts that

tell me " I could never do that " or " That's who I am. "

- I can't dance in public. That's not who I am.

- I can't make that phone call to a friend just to say hi. That

doesn't feel comfortable. That's not me.

- I can't speak up and ask that person to be quiet who is talking

too loudly on their cell phone. That's not me. That wouldn't feel

natural.

- I don't dare try and succeed in that career area. It's too hard,

too risky, requires me to talk to people, etc. It's just not me. It

wouldn't be natural.

I am not trying to put you down, hurt you, or tell you what to do

when I give these examples. I can only speak for myself in saying

that if I listened to my mind (that is, my thoughts) tell me " Who I

am " in terms of what I can and can't do that might be in my

interest ... then I would be shrinking my life way, way down.

If you cannot even try a defusion exercise like " I'm having the

thought that ... " - then what else might there be that you are not

willing to try, that might help you?

Again this may sound like pressure or being hurtful. I don't mean

it that way. I don't know your situation or what is right for you.

I can only say that such thoughts, for many many people, are a

classic way of staying stuck. But it is not my call. Maybe someone

else who can say these things more helpfully will chime in.

Hoping I am not being a pain here,

Randy

[Guest guest]

I should add that often there is a kind of pride in thoughts like

" That's not me, I don't do that sort of thing. " For sure, I have

experienced this. Our self-image can come to seem much more

valuable to us than whether we are living the kind of life we

would want if we dared hope for it.

>

>

>

>

> Hi Iolanda,

>

> Thoughts of " who we are " and " that is/isn't me " or " I could never

> do that " can serve our interests - as when we persistently commit

> to a value despite setbacks, or refuse to engage in an activity

> that goes against our values - or they can hinder our interests.

>

> In ACT-speak, when such thoughts hinder us, this is sometimes

> called " the conceptualized self. " It is like an ossified view of

> ourselves that we cling to because it seems so much " us " that we

> cannot imagine being ourselves without it - and yet - and yet - it

> is hindering and not serving us.

>

> For example, I have had, and still have, a lot of thoughts that

> tell me " I could never do that " or " That's who I am. "

>

> - I can't dance in public. That's not who I am.

>

> - I can't make that phone call to a friend just to say hi. That

> doesn't feel comfortable. That's not me.

>

> - I can't speak up and ask that person to be quiet who is talking

> too loudly on their cell phone. That's not me. That wouldn't feel

> natural.

>

> - I don't dare try and succeed in that career area. It's too hard,

> too risky, requires me to talk to people, etc. It's just not me. It

> wouldn't be natural.

>

> I am not trying to put you down, hurt you, or tell you what to do

> when I give these examples. I can only speak for myself in saying

> that if I listened to my mind (that is, my thoughts) tell me " Who I

> am " in terms of what I can and can't do that might be in my

> interest ... then I would be shrinking my life way, way down.

>

> If you cannot even try a defusion exercise like " I'm having the

> thought that ... " - then what else might there be that you are not

> willing to try, that might help you?

>

> Again this may sound like pressure or being hurtful. I don't mean

> it that way. I don't know your situation or what is right for you.

> I can only say that such thoughts, for many many people, are a

> classic way of staying stuck. But it is not my call. Maybe someone

> else who can say these things more helpfully will chime in.

>

> Hoping I am not being a pain here,

>

> Randy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Iolanda,In the various exchanges I don't think I've seen any plan for action. Can I push you a bit into taking some? I said that your health might mean you need to take small steps, but you've got to take some, no matter how small, lest you remain in your paper cage. A goal won't be "to make a friend", you need to break it down. It might be to plan a visit somewhere, so that you can speak to some people. What are your interests? Where are other people with similar interests to be found? What community groups are there close to you? Are you housebound, I didn't gather from your messages. If so, what else? It might be to write to a friend you've not written to for a long time. What are the small steps you are going to take?Can you tell me?

xSubject: Re: Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truthTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, 23 July, 2011, 14:50Apologies for the "blank" email I just sent .... i accidently hit "send" rather than "save" ........ ;-)Thanks for the replies everyone .... I think I understand more now ........A few comments ........> 2. "I am experiencing the emotion of loneliness" less fused, or more distanced because we now know what the experience is, what is happening. It is not me happening, it is something.>> 3. "I am noticing that I am

experiencing the emotion of loneliness" defused. This detaches the emotion from the self. It creates the psychological room/space/distance to experience it as it is...a `human' emotion. Another...thing?...that comes and goes, another...thing...that is universal to living and being human.These 2 are definately not something that I could get used to doing ..... it's not in "me" to think like this and word my own thoughts like this. Plus it would, quite honestly, make me feel worse because I would be noticing such strange wording ........ said something that is how I am more inclined to think ........> One note of difference from some other advice is where it has been suggested that you > accept what is fact. It may all be a big sack of semantics, but I would never seek to > accept what I can change, and that I want to change.he also then said this which is basically what I'd done

all those years ago ..... challenged my thinking and my assumptions (the plan for change)> So distinguish between what you can't do anything about (accept); give me a plan for > what you can change (do).Well..... as has been mentioned by a few people - it's hard to make new friends. Well, my fatigue is so bad that it's near impossible so I'm happy to keep on noticing opportunities to change the situation, but I'm also going to accept the situation as it is NOW when the thoughts come to me NOW.I'll just use the defusion and then work on my values. The big problem with me though is that when I'm thinking these thoughts I'm generally feeling really horrendous - bad pain and horrible fatigue - that makes it hard or impossible to do the things on my list of "values". With the exception of 1 thing ....... "enjoy the moment". I've actually got that

as part of one of my values of "Being healthy"I'll put in another email how I "enjoy the moment" ..... because it's also related to another post that was sent today about "The power of smiling"Thanks again everyone for your feedbackiolanda------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

Hi Iolanda,In the various exchanges I don't think I've seen any plan for action. Can I push you a bit into taking some? I said that your health might mean you need to take small steps, but you've got to take some, no matter how small, lest you remain in your paper cage. A goal won't be "to make a friend", you need to break it down. It might be to plan a visit somewhere, so that you can speak to some people. What are your interests? Where are other people with similar interests to be found? What community groups are there close to you? Are you housebound, I didn't gather from your messages. If so, what else? It might be to write to a friend you've not written to for a long time. What are the small steps you are going to take?Can you tell me?

xSubject: Re: Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truthTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, 23 July, 2011, 14:50Apologies for the "blank" email I just sent .... i accidently hit "send" rather than "save" ........ ;-)Thanks for the replies everyone .... I think I understand more now ........A few comments ........> 2. "I am experiencing the emotion of loneliness" less fused, or more distanced because we now know what the experience is, what is happening. It is not me happening, it is something.>> 3. "I am noticing that I am

experiencing the emotion of loneliness" defused. This detaches the emotion from the self. It creates the psychological room/space/distance to experience it as it is...a `human' emotion. Another...thing?...that comes and goes, another...thing...that is universal to living and being human.These 2 are definately not something that I could get used to doing ..... it's not in "me" to think like this and word my own thoughts like this. Plus it would, quite honestly, make me feel worse because I would be noticing such strange wording ........ said something that is how I am more inclined to think ........> One note of difference from some other advice is where it has been suggested that you > accept what is fact. It may all be a big sack of semantics, but I would never seek to > accept what I can change, and that I want to change.he also then said this which is basically what I'd done

all those years ago ..... challenged my thinking and my assumptions (the plan for change)> So distinguish between what you can't do anything about (accept); give me a plan for > what you can change (do).Well..... as has been mentioned by a few people - it's hard to make new friends. Well, my fatigue is so bad that it's near impossible so I'm happy to keep on noticing opportunities to change the situation, but I'm also going to accept the situation as it is NOW when the thoughts come to me NOW.I'll just use the defusion and then work on my values. The big problem with me though is that when I'm thinking these thoughts I'm generally feeling really horrendous - bad pain and horrible fatigue - that makes it hard or impossible to do the things on my list of "values". With the exception of 1 thing ....... "enjoy the moment". I've actually got that

as part of one of my values of "Being healthy"I'll put in another email how I "enjoy the moment" ..... because it's also related to another post that was sent today about "The power of smiling"Thanks again everyone for your feedbackiolanda------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for the feedback - much appreciated.

A few have mentioned my brain injury ..... when I mention my brain injury it is

related to

a few things

- my very very poor memory (so I quite literally remember nothing about the book

I read

only a few months ago)

- my difficulty in understanding some people's messages - the wording is often

too

complicated for me to understand what's being said. Not all the time, but

sometimes. And

then it's really difficult to tie in what I've read in a few messages because I

won't

remember much of what I've read (especially if it's not very simple) in order

to be able

to tie them together.

- I would have to write up the 2nd and 3rd types of defusion somewhere in order

to

remember them because I would quite literally be saying the wrong thing. Not

only that,

but the 3rd one is complicated for me to read and say, and the difficulty I have

makes it

uncomfortable

Of the 3 defusion methods, I prefer and I've been using the first one - it works

better

for me. So I'll continue with it.

Randy - thanks for your particular thread about " I can't do ..... " Luckily I

don't have

this type of problem. In fact I live with by the credo " Never tell me never "

and have

had many doctors say positive things about me.

iolanda

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for the feedback - much appreciated.

A few have mentioned my brain injury ..... when I mention my brain injury it is

related to

a few things

- my very very poor memory (so I quite literally remember nothing about the book

I read

only a few months ago)

- my difficulty in understanding some people's messages - the wording is often

too

complicated for me to understand what's being said. Not all the time, but

sometimes. And

then it's really difficult to tie in what I've read in a few messages because I

won't

remember much of what I've read (especially if it's not very simple) in order

to be able

to tie them together.

- I would have to write up the 2nd and 3rd types of defusion somewhere in order

to

remember them because I would quite literally be saying the wrong thing. Not

only that,

but the 3rd one is complicated for me to read and say, and the difficulty I have

makes it

uncomfortable

Of the 3 defusion methods, I prefer and I've been using the first one - it works

better

for me. So I'll continue with it.

Randy - thanks for your particular thread about " I can't do ..... " Luckily I

don't have

this type of problem. In fact I live with by the credo " Never tell me never "

and have

had many doctors say positive things about me.

iolanda

[Guest guest]

>

> Randy - thanks for your particular thread about " I can't do ..... " Luckily I

don't have

> this type of problem. In fact I live with by the credo " Never tell me never "

and have

> had many doctors say positive things about me.

OK. I guess what I am hearing is not what is being said, so I will lay off.

- R.

[Guest guest]

>> once again, it's not my style of thinking.Iolanda, what IS your style of thinking? Can you define what you mean by that? It could save your friends here a lot of time and effort in replying to your questions if we knew that, since you say the suggestions offered here are "not you" or "not your style of thinking."

Is ACT itself for you? Has it helped you in any way? I feel bad that you seem to get nothing out of the many responses you've received, and a lot of us have really tried to help.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 7:24:33 AMSubject: Re: Re: I still don't understand about defusion of facts/ the truth

Thanks for the replies everyone> If I understand you correctly, you say that prefacing your thoughts> & feelings with a formula such as "I am experiencing the thought> that I am lonely" wouldn't work for you - in part because doing so> would seem unnatural and not something you could do and still be> you.Actually, I'm NOT having that thought ....... I am actually FEELING lonely within my body........ i'm feeling the loneliness emotionally and consequently in my body ..... and I feel it before I even cognitively notice it.I don't actually go thinking "I'm lonely". The only coping mechanism I have used is to attend to my values (or other distractions if I'm too unwell to do values)> Still, I wonder - does it seem to you that using such a formula> ("I'm having the thought that ...") would be too much like denying> who you really are as a person?I don't like how "mechanical" and technical it is ..... it doesn't seem natural for me to do and highlights the artificiality of the whole process.> web site at this URL:>> http://storyandantistory.org/2008/01/act-observer-exercise/I tried listening to the MP3 and this type of technique is not "me" ..... there's no way that I could be thinking alone these terms.Lou said> The 'Chessboard metaphor' is also a very powerful tool for change. (Thanks for teaching > me that Steve).> I found this recording on youtube some time ago. I think it is a good description of how > the metaphor works.I watched the video and, once again, it's not my style of thinking.thanks for the replies .......iolanda